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Remedy : Next-Gen consoles are a quantum leap

KageMaru

Member
The GameCube was more powerful than the Xbox in certain aspects as well.

The thing is though, those are just 2 games, most games on the PS2 didn't look better than the GameCube other than a few games, it some games the GameCube looked better than the Xbox as well.

RE4 looked worse on the PS2 though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qz0LbKpZtI

Of course the PS4 and Xbox 720 will be more powerful than the Wii U, but it's definitely not going to be Wii vs PS3/360 all over again, some people say it's

Wii U = low end PC, PS4 = medium end PC and Xbox 720 = high end PC

or

Wii U = Dreamcast/PS2

Xbox 720/PS4 = Xbox/Wii

Edit: NOO I BUMPED THIS THREAD lol.

Yeah, you're skirting around my points and questions and just posting points from before.

Read my earlier replies and see how half of what you say doesn't make sense. For example, why would you even bother going on with RE4 still when I said it was a port?

And now you're throwing the xbox into this, really? It's one thing that some people are stuck in the current gen system wars, but you seem to still be in last gen war.

Sorry but I can't have this conversation with you when you see what you want to see.
 

Meelow

Banned
Yeah, you're skirting around my points and questions and just posting points from before.

Read my earlier replies and see how half of what you say doesn't make sense. For example, why would you even bother going on with RE4 still when I said it was a port?

And now you're throwing the xbox into this, really? It's one thing that some people are stuck in the current gen system wars, but you seem to still be in last gen war.

Sorry but I can't have this conversation with you when you see what you want to see.

I told you what people are saying about next gen between the Wii U/PS4/720, that's what people think it is.

Of course the Wii U will be the weakest but I'm saying it's going to be that much weaker like people think.

They don't talk about a specific platform though they would be allowed to name the WiiU. Also Remedy did Alan Wake exclusively for 360. So my assumption is pretty much covered by some facts ;)

Isn't he a PC developer as well?.
 

KageMaru

Member
I suppose that's a fair assessment, but I don't think that's too outrageous on his part. I now have access to an Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, and there aren't many games that interest me on either platform. I know that it's just my tastes, though, and not that the games are necessarily bad. Anyhow, I think, judging by my previous experience, I can expect to enjoy Nintendo's software more this generation as well.

Yeah I see what you mean. If you've loved Nintendo software all your life, it's safe to say you'll enjoy their games on the next system. I still think it's early to say whether or not those games will be better than what MS or Sony provide though. I'm just not one to jump to conclusions or devote my money to any company unless they give me a reason to, so don't mind my view of things. =)

But speaking of hardware, it seems that there is a lot of disagreement on whether or not a game looks impressive. I think this speaks volumes. I'm very interested on seeing the other next generation consoles. I really want to see how good games can look, but I don't expect huge leaps in visual fidelity. I'm probably blind, but games like Star Wars 1313 and Watch_Dogs didn't really have that same impact as previous console generations. Don't get me wrong, I love the way these games look and have no problems whatsoever if that's "all" we get. It just didn't blow my mind.

Achieving CG quality visuals in real time would be fantastic (Agni's Philosophy?), and if Microsoft and Sony manage to do so, kudos to them. I can't wait to see what they do with it.

That is an interesting point, that people are at a disagreement on what is impressive or not.

The thing with Watch Dogs and Star Wars is, while they look gorgeous, they are also being ported to the PS360. So I question how much that effects the end results. Also Star Wars is running on UE3 DX11 engine, so things would certainly look better running on a newer engine like UE4.

Also, it's a fact that graphical progression is just slowing down in general. Now that doesn't mean we won't see amazing new techniques and games created, but we'll never again see the leaps we saw going from PSone -> PS2 -> PS3. There was just so much more room for improvement with those transitions, and the console manufacturers weren't as held back by the laws of physics or cost back then, so the jumps were much bigger.

I think exclusive software, built for these machines specifically, will still blow people away.

I told you what people are saying about next gen between the Wii U/PS4/720, that's what people think it is.

Of course the Wii U will be the weakest but I'm saying it's going to be that much weaker like people think.

The gap will likely not be as big as the Wii to the PS360, but even if it's similar to say the Dreamcast to the xbox, that's a huge gap in performance.

I don't expect the gap between the PS360 and the Wii-U to be all that large, with the improvements mainly being what I listed earlier in this thread. However I do expect a sizable gap between the PS360 and the PS4/720.

I think most of the people in this thread have the same expectation and anyone that thinks otherwise is probably an ignorant fanboy or a troll, both of which can be ignored or laughed at.

Maybe it would help if I had a better understanding of your expectations, but so far it sounds like you think the Wii-U and PS4/720 will be closer in performance than they probably will be.

Isn't he a PC developer as well?.

Yes Remedy is a PC developer, but it is logical to assume they will continue working with MS on the 720 if they are indeed making another Alan Wake game.
 
I've been saying is I don't see the point in posting the gif or how it relates to what's expected of next gen consoles.

I'm not trying to say the engine can't render more than one character at a time at that level, I'm saying the gif itself is not an accurate representation to how an engine performs (in all respects) due to the fact that it's only showing that one model (specifically in the gif) which in reality tells us little. I'm looking forward to the game as anyone else, but I don't see how posting the gif fits the topic at hand.

Well then I'm jealous lol.
Ah thanks, makes sense now ;) It's just people love posting gifs that show some kind of impressive graphics, no matter how everything else looks. It's something we have to live with in this day and age I guess, where graphics are everything.

It fits the topic at least in that sense, that the next gen is hopefully able to render this kind of facial quality alongside huge good looking environments, AI etc.

KageMaru said:
Well then I'm jealous lol.
No need. It was painful to just leave after the presentation at gamescom. Really wanted to continue or at least play it for myself lol

It also didn't help that one of the producers teased me by explaining how much larger this game is going to be compared to Heavy Rain.
The playtime alone is estimated to be about 12 hours, while Heavy Rain only lasted like 7 hours.
 
tumblr_m8mwzes9cM1rb06tgo2_500.gif
 
RE: Quantum leap.
We all know what they meant and the joke was killed.

RE: Powerful PCs.
They'll always be more powerful, but there's nothing wrong with wanting powerful console hardware and looking at the consoles in isolated context.

RE: Wii U as next gen.
Yes, it is next gen, but no one should be under any illusions that there won't be a power gap to Durangorbis. Also there's nothing in the E3 Wii U demos that look beyond current generation hardware afact.
 
Actually, I'm not buying the PS4 and XBox 720 when they come out. I'm going to buy them about four to five years after they are released. The Wii U is the last console I'm buying for quite a long time. I have a great PC, that runs the games I want to play at pretty high settings. I can wait four to five years to upgrade my PC. Also, I have a feeling that games next gen, are going to cost at least 70 bucks, due to the high cost nowadays of making triple A videogames. I'm looking forward to seeing how games look on their new machines. I just hope they are not 500 to 600 dollars again, especially Sony's console. I would say 400 would be good enough price point for Sony's and Microsoft next consoles. I'm happy this generation lasted a really long time though. Also, getting the Wii U just for Nintendo games in HD. Will only buy third party games on that console if the quality is actually good.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Yeah I see what you mean. If you've loved Nintendo software all your life, it's safe to say you'll enjoy their games on the next system. I still think it's early to say whether or not those games will be better than what MS or Sony provide though. I'm just not one to jump to conclusions or devote my money to any company unless they give me a reason to, so don't mind my view of things. =)



That is an interesting point, that people are at a disagreement on what is impressive or not.

The thing with Watch Dogs and Star Wars is, while they look gorgeous, they are also being ported to the PS360. So I question how much that effects the end results. Also Star Wars is running on UE3 DX11 engine, so things would certainly look better running on a newer engine like UE4.

Also, it's a fact that graphical progression is just slowing down in general. Now that doesn't mean we won't see amazing new techniques and games created, but we'll never again see the leaps we saw going from PSone -> PS2 -> PS3. There was just so much more room for improvement with those transitions, and the console manufacturers weren't as held back by the laws of physics or cost back then, so the jumps were much bigger.

I think exclusive software, built for these machines specifically, will still blow people away.



The gap will likely not be as big as the Wii to the PS360, but even if it's similar to say the Dreamcast to the xbox, that's a huge gap in performance.

I don't expect the gap between the PS360 and the Wii-U to be all that large, with the improvements mainly being what I listed earlier in this thread. However I do expect a sizable gap between the PS360 and the PS4/720.

I think most of the people in this thread have the same expectation and anyone that thinks otherwise is probably an ignorant fanboy or a troll, both of which can be ignored or laughed at.


Maybe it would help if I had a better understanding of your expectations, but so far it sounds like you think the Wii-U and PS4/720 will be closer in performance than they probably will be.



Yes Remedy is a PC developer, but it is logical to assume they will continue working with MS on the 720 if they are indeed making another Alan Wake game.
What have you seen that justifies this statement?
 
You don't get it man, it's between 3.5 and 3.8 times as powerful as a 360, it's just that all developers are lazy, and Nintendo don't like AA because it taints the artistic integrity of their creations.

Its just crazy how anyone can judge the power of a console with launching titles. Has everyone forgotten Xbox 360 and PS3 launch titles? Its must be the younger gamers doing this.
 

jaypah

Member
Its just crazy how anyone can judge the power of a console with launching titles. Has everyone forgotten Xbox 360 and PS3 launch titles? Its must be the younger gamers doing this.

I was 25 when the 360 launched. At the re-launch (Nov. 18, 2005) I picked up PGR3 and Condemned. Having spent a shitload of time playing all 3 consoles of the prior generation those 2 games blew me away and were undeniably a step up from what I was used to. Fight Night R3 was shown off well before the 360 launch and reading my Gameinformer mag I couldn't fathom something like that running in real time in my house.

I understand that Nintendo goes wherever it wants to and as a huge HUGE Nintendo fan I'll follow the games however they present them. But personally I had to check my expectations because I had been groomed to expect the console starting the new generation to impress me visiually. Years of being huddled over EGM mags with buddies and fawning over next-Gen screenshots is hard to shake. It was always "dude do you SEE THIS SHIT?!?" and never "think of the gameplay ramifications!". Not that we didn't cheer the good games and ridicule the bad ones, just that it used to be new gen=new grafx.

This is all from a personal perspective though and I can't speak for anyone else. Just saying that to say, "must be them kiddy gamers" seems dismissive and not quite right. They would have to have been born after the launch of the Wii and PS3 now that I think about it. What's a 5 year old doing on GAF? :p
 

derFeef

Member
Its just crazy how anyone can judge the power of a console with launching titles. Has everyone forgotten Xbox 360 and PS3 launch titles? Its must be the younger gamers doing this.

But developers today know how to utilze this hardware, tools got better, the pipeline is better. There is no single reason a Wii U launch title will not be as graphical impressive as 2 or 3 years in now.
 
Its just crazy how anyone can judge the power of a console with launching titles. Has everyone forgotten Xbox 360 and PS3 launch titles? Its must be the younger gamers doing this.

Both looked like a MAJOR jump. Which so far no Wii U titles do.
Heck if nothing else they were in 720P.

I can attest my mind was pretty damn blown the first time I played Project Gotham 3, which IIRC was a launch title. The combination of gfx, blazing soundtrack, swinging the camera around the car smooth as silk at what seemed like 500 mph was just sensory overload.

PS3 had Heavenly Sword and Motorstorm at launch right? PS3 debuted with far better looking titles than 360 debuted with imo (imo this was because 360 dev kits were like half the power of the final system up to pretty close to release)
 

StuBurns

Banned
Its just crazy how anyone can judge the power of a console with launching titles. Has everyone forgotten Xbox 360 and PS3 launch titles? Its must be the younger gamers doing this.
I do remember. PGR and Resistance looked massively better than anything the generation before. Do they look as good as Gears 3 and GoW3? No, of course not. But the leap in performance was instantly noticeable.
 

Marco1

Member
RE: Quantum leap.
We all know what they meant and the joke was killed.

RE: Powerful PCs.
They'll always be more powerful, but there's nothing wrong with wanting powerful console hardware and looking at the consoles in isolated context.

RE: Wii U as next gen.
Yes, it is next gen, but no one should be under any illusions that there won't be a power gap to Durangorbis. Also there's nothing in the E3 Wii U demos that look beyond current generation hardware afact.

T don't understand the quantum leap joke. What did they mean?
 
T don't understand the quantum leap joke. What did they mean?

Assume he's referring to people in the thread that don't know the difference between simply using the word quantum and using the phrase quantum leap. Lots of people at the start of the thread come off looking really bad.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Its just crazy how anyone can judge the power of a console with launching titles. Has everyone forgotten Xbox 360 and PS3 launch titles? Its must be the younger gamers doing this.
What home console (other than the Wii) launched with games that were graphically indistinguishable from the previous generation?
 
Both looked like a MAJOR jump. Which so far no Wii U titles do.
Heck if nothing else they were in 720P.

I can attest my mind was pretty damn blown the first time I played Project Gotham 3, which IIRC was a launch title. The combination of gfx, blazing soundtrack, swinging the camera around the car smooth as silk at what seemed like 500 mph was just sensory overload.

PS3 had Heavenly Sword and Motorstorm at launch right? PS3 debuted with far better looking titles than 360 debuted with imo (imo this was because 360 dev kits were like half the power of the final system up to pretty close to release)

Motorstorm wasn't out until March 2007 (PAL launch), Heavenly Sword wasn't until September. Sony fought an uphill battle on the graphics front the first year, as Gears of War came out in November 2006, and Uncharted didn't land until nearly a year afterward.

Edit: I'm willing to bet that Watch_Dogs never releases for PS3 or 360. Star Wars 1313 has no announced platform other than PC. Just because it's running on UE3 didn't mean that current gen port is on the way.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Its just crazy how anyone can judge the power of a console with launching titles. Has everyone forgotten Xbox 360 and PS3 launch titles? Its must be the younger gamers doing this.

Even Perfect Dark blew my ind when I first played it.

Kameo also, those games looked way better than anything in the gen before it.

Wii U's best looking games thus far look worse than what we have now.
 

AOC83

Banned
Its just crazy how anyone can judge the power of a console with launching titles. Has everyone forgotten Xbox 360 and PS3 launch titles? Its must be the younger gamers doing this.

Can´t remember that the 360/PS3 launch titles looked worse than what their 5 years old predecessor had to offer. This sadly is the case with the WiiU launch titles.
 

AOC83

Banned
Even Perfect Dark blew my ind when I first played it.

Kameo also, those games looked way better than anything in the gen before it.

Wii U's best looking games thus far look worse than what we have now.

Add Call of Duty 2, King Kong and some other games and let´s not forget what we got a few month later, Ghost Recon and Oblivion, both looked incredible.
 
I have no doubt in my mind that Star Wars 1313 will be on PS3 and 360.

Hopefully. Because then it would indicate next-gen consoles are on parity.

I wouldn't want next-gen to be same as this one where third parties just port. Nothing really different between consoles, everything basically on parity for a port platform. Lame.
 

Meelow

Banned
With what games?

The only games that look worse are Tank Tank Tank which is a 2009 Arcade game port, and Wii Fit U which isn't even about graphics.

All of them? There is not a single game that reaches the graphic quality of a Uncharted 3, Killzone or God of War 3, not one.

You mean games that where built from the ground up on the PS3 look better than multiplatform games and a game that wasn't even built on the Wii U until the last minute?.
 

BlackJace

Member
All of them? There is not a single game that reaches the graphic quality of a Uncharted 3, Killzone or God of War 3, not one.

You must be a troll. You expect a new console to output games of a better fidelity than games of seasoned hardware? At launch? I don't remember anybody demanding that of the ps3 and 360 at launch.

Come on.

Also throw in the fact that you're putting up Ps3 exclusives against dirty ports and multiplats. I trust you have more intelligence than that.
 

AOC83

Banned
You must be a troll. You expect a new console to output games of a better fidelity than games of seasoned hardware?

Yes i am a troll because i expect better graphics from a in 2012 released console than from
it´s 6/7 YEARS old competitors.



At launch? I don't remember anybody demanding that of the ps3 and 360 at launch.

Come on.

Then maybe you should refresh your memories. Everybody demanded better graphics and everybody got them.
 
I am sure MS will scoop up Star Wars 1313.

Not sure why the would, but it depends on how much confidence Lucasarts has in the product. An exclusive star wars game for newly released consoles isn't going to shift that many copies compared to what it could if it was multiplat and had current gen versions....to be perfectly hones, visuals aside, nothing shown so far looks like it couldnt be emulated on current gen consoles with downgraded visuals...There is simply no reason for them not to do a current gen version. Watch Dogs is another matter....I honestly dont seeing that getting a current gen release. It would have to be massively downgraded at least
 
Honestly the only things I want to take a quantum leap next gen are level design and gameplay systems.

If its the same corridor cinematic AAA crap but just prettier, I'm gonna pass for a long time,
 

BlackJace

Member
Yes i am a troll because i expect better graphics from a in 2012 released console than from
it´s 6/7 YEARS old competitors.





Then maybe you should refresh your memories. Everybody demanded better graphics and everybody got them.

At launch? Don't think so. It took time for the hardware to mature. Then we got the uncharteds and the killzones and the god of wars. It's unfair, and all around stupid that you would expect fucking launch titles to be clearly better games built up on seasoned hardware.

And the reason 360 and ps3 launch titles may have looked better is because of the leap into HD. It was going to be a bit better by default.
 

StuBurns

Banned
I have no doubt in my mind that Star Wars 1313 will be on PS3 and 360.
I find that very hard to believe, UE3.5's specs were crazy high were they not? That iteration was specifically gunned for PS480 before they could get UE4 out.
At launch? Don't think so. It took time for the hardware to mature. Then we got the uncharteds and the killzones and the god of wars. It's unfair, and all around stupid that you would expect fucking launch titles to be clearly better games built up on seasoned hardware.

And the reason 360 and ps3 launch titles may have looked better is because of the leap into HD. It was going to be a bit better by default.
So, you're saying none of the PS4 or Xbox 3 launch games will look better than the best looking PS3 and 360 games, right?
 
Let's be real. Console launches have always shown an obvious jump in graphical capabilities.

At the same time, though, launch games are a poor indicator of a console's overall power.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
At launch? Don't think so. It took time for the hardware to mature. Then we got the uncharteds and the killzones and the god of wars. It's unfair, and all around stupid that you would expect fucking launch titles to be clearly better games built up on seasoned hardware.

And the reason 360 and ps3 launch titles may have looked better is because of the leap into HD. It was going to be a bit better by default.
No reason why a new console can't do 1080p versions of current gen ports, unless it doesn't have the grunt.
 

Eideka

Banned
I wouldn't want next-gen to be same as this one where third parties just port. Nothing really different between consoles, everything basically on parity for a port platform. Lame.

You are in for a disappointment then. The huge majority of next-games will be multiplatforms and I'm willing to bet the hardware of both consoles will be pretty similar.

This is a good thing of course. I don't see how the equity of treatment has done anything wrong to this generation.
 
I have no doubt in my mind that Star Wars 1313 will be on PS3 and 360.

It's likely running on UE 3.9, basically the revision used to run Samaritan. When Epic says next gen is going to start with UE3, they don't mean the same stuff we're seeing right now.
 

AOC83

Banned
You mean games that where built from the ground up on the PS3 look better than multiplatform games and a game that wasn't even built on the Wii U until the last minute?.

If the WiiU was a substantially more powerful hardware than 360/PS3 it would´ve been no problem to make a game that blows anything on the old consoles away in a very short amount of time ( let alone all the years that Nintendo´s basically doing nothing but counting money).
 
You must be a troll. You expect a new console to output games of a better fidelity than games of seasoned hardware? At launch? I don't remember anybody demanding that of the ps3 and 360 at launch.

Come on.

You have to be joking. I think everyone expected 360 and PS3 games to look much better than anything on Xbox and PS2. And for the most part I'd say we got it.
 

AOC83

Banned
At launch?

Yes at launch. Every single new generation there were games from the start that blew the old ones out of the water.



Don't think so. It took time for the hardware to mature. Then we got the uncharteds and the killzones and the god of wars. It's unfair, and all around stupid that you would expect fucking launch titles to be clearly better games built up on seasoned hardware.

You have no idea what you´re talking about.


And the reason 360 and ps3 launch titles may have looked better is because of the leap into HD. It was going to be a bit better by default.

They also looked better in SD, way better.
 

Meelow

Banned
If the WiiU was a substantially more powerful hardware than 360/PS3 it would´ve been no problem to make a game that blows anything on the old consoles away in a very short amount of time ( let alone all the years that Nintendo´s basically doing nothing but counting money).

Do you think the PS4 and Xbox 720 launch will blow away high end PS3 and 360 games?.
 

zoukka

Member
It's likely running on UE 3.9, basically the revision used to run Samaritan. When Epic says next gen is going to start with UE3, they don't mean the same stuff we're seeing right now.

Well godspeed to them if they think it'll sell on PC or make even on fresh next-gen consoles.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Do you think the PS4 and Xbox 720 launch will blow away high end PS3 and 360 games?.

Yes, by far.

Its already been proven with Watch Dogs and 1313 and those still have (at least) another year to cook.

Hell even Crysis 3 on PC is good indication of this
 

BlackJace

Member
I find that very hard to believe, UE3.5's specs were crazy high were they not? That iteration was specifically gunned for PS480 before they could get UE4 out.

So, you're saying none of the PS4 or Xbox 3 launch games will look better than the best looking PS3 and 360 games, right?

It's likely they won't, yeah.
No reason why a new console can't do 1080p versions of current gen ports, unless it doesn't have the grunt.
Says who? Again, its fucking launch.
You have to be joking. I think everyone expected 360 and PS3 games to look much better than anything on Xbox and PS2. And for the most part I'd say we got it.

Yeah, you guys got significantly better graphics than ps2 and xbox. Just not at launch. What is that, the 5th time I've said this?
 
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