I don't think it's going to come down to what's competitive, I think it's going to come down to what can draw in the most people from the "casual" crowd. Vanilla Reach and MLG Reach were drastically different, which in turn made it hard for the average Halo fan to get into it, which resulted in the poor attendance numbers and the like, that simply can't happen this time around if Halo is going to be on the circuit.
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Halo |OT9| One Final Effort Is All That Remains
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
I don't think it's going to come down to what's competitive, I think it's going to come down to what can draw in the most people from the "casual" crowd. Vanilla Reach and MLG Reach were drastically different, which in turn made it hard for the average Halo fan to get into it, which resulted in the poor attendance numbers and the like, that simply can't happen this time around if Halo is going to be on the circuit.
Hydranockz
Member
What is this buuuullshit???
The only reason MLG is still around is from consistent bailouts by angel investors. The company exists through luck and not via smart management of their money, and I'll just leave it at that. They continually spend more money than they take in, and this isn't Halo's fault, because they were still bleeding during the height of their Halo days.
Isn't MS incorporated in Ireland over there because Ireland intentionally sets itself up as a corporate haven?
YourExWife
Member
lies. They only times that is the only game is the invitationals, which people pay-per-event to watch. The live championship events always have at least 3 games (IIRC). After Halo was dropped after the one and only event with the current maps and settings, they've still had at least SC2, fighting games (usually 2 or more), LoL, etc.
It's more like, "hey, we're a business that's been running in the red for many years and surviving almost entirely off of new venture capital. Perhaps we should see what games people are actually going to watch. Oh look, viewer numbers for Halo are terrible, let's put our bandwidth costs, floorspace, personnel, etc. to better use so we can actually make money..."
EDIT: Oh hey look, you proved my point partially for me...
And the changed physics for MLG Reach did some wonky things with the visuals. It looked like people were skating and sliding back and forth and jumping was... weird. Add to that the maps they played seemed to always be Sanctuary, something else, SANCTUARY AGAIN, etc., and I personally just got bored watching gameplay.
So, which is it? Is the game not fit for competitive play, or is it that simply no one really cares to watch a stripped down game that is so vastly different than the one they play every night?
How much stuff does MLG change or restrict in SC2?
Hydranockz
Member
Yeah, it's one of the only things we got going well for us. I think I'll sign up anyway. Worst case scenario; I get picked and am not allowed to go because UK =/= Ireland
Ajemsuhgao
Member
But remember there is a support ability specifically for vehicle drivers gunners to help balance that out.
YourExWife
Member
A fair amount. They have a good handful of custom maps and MLG variants of ladder maps where they've changed the spawn locations to promote more macro-based and competitive play, they force player colors, they add things like neutral supply depots to prevent roll-of-the-dice cheeses, they'll add and remove terrain features, they'll change the amount and type of minerals or gas to make certain positions more and less desirable or to influence the types of builds available. They're a fair bit less subtle to an observer, but the changes still drastically change the way they have to play many times.
Depends on what your definition of competitive is, and I definitely think the later is the main problem. It's easy to just strip the game down in order to make competitive settings and push that out, it's an entirely different thing to make competitive settings that entertain both those who frequent said settings and those who don't, both through actually playing them and watching others play them, so I definitely think they're going to make things easier on themselves and try to keep things as close to the vanilla gametypes as possible.
As far as SC2, I'm pretty sure what they've changed doesn't create such a drastic difference like the changes that were made to Reach, but I don't pay attention to SC2 so.
You'll leave it at that because you have insider info and you can't speak about it anymore or what?
I'm not denying that any of those things you just mentioned are true but from what I understand (unless Sundance is a liar) they've actually turned StarCraft2 into something profitable for MLG, more specifically the Arena's. I would imagine LoL does pretty well for them too. I'll just say that in the past I think MLG was certainly more reliant on these "bailouts" while these days not so much. The degrees to which these "bailouts" were necessary or not, I have no idea about. And yea, I agree that it's not Halo's fault that MLG has had financial problems.
Anyway, in more productive conversation. I would really like to see Halo grow from the bottom up. It's actually starting to happen and it's pretty exciting to see. We have a lot more Halo streamers than we did back in the Halo 3 days. Halo Council is kicking ass. Arena gaming is chugging along. I think we'll see more local tournaments and events pop up with Halo 4 coming up. I do think that it's important to support each other.
YourExWife
Member
Perks in Halo 4 are supposed to support a playstyle. But it may be that the perk reducing EMP effect on vehicles will end up being "mandatory" if you want to use vehicles in BTB.
That wouldn't be good. Or fun. Or working as intended.
Yeah they probably had good reasons to drop it, but I think the organization shouldn't control a playlist in the game either way, it needs to be controlled by the competitive community as a whole somehow.
I would be more convinced of their altruism if they didn't go around trying to push out smaller leagues. Hence why Capcom doesn't allow MLG to broadcast their fighting games, preferring to keep the grassroots FGC alive. MLG settled for freaking Mortal Kombat as one of their flagship fighting games.
We've dropped your game that you compete in! Too bad we don't allow you to compete in any other league carrying the game and burn money attempting to buy out FGC communities then drop their game.
This is one of the many reasons why the Hardcore playlist in Halo 4 shouldn't be controlled by MLG. There's tons of hardcore content out there that nobody can use in matchmaking because MLG (and one person in that org) has a monopoly over it.
The Real Napsta
Member
Look at Reach, 99% of the community stuff is garbage. I don't want that shit in the MLG/Hardcore playlist.
I'm not disagreeing with you but 343 would have to bring in some people that understand competitive gameplay.
I've been more than satisfied with the MLG gametypes since Halo 2. I can probably count the times on one hand I've thought they fucked something up with the map or gametype. If it weren't for the MLG gametypes I don't know how much Halo I would have played over the years. I think now though, in the best interest for the competitive community, the standard needs to be set by 343. I think there are certain things the competitive community expects in their Halo gameplay (No radar certainly being one of them, smaller sized maps, 4v4 (??)) but there are things you just need to feel out. For Halo 4, there are going to be loadouts and aspects of those loadouts that people will cling to. The meta game will change with time. You can't really cross anything out until the competitive community breaks it.
Ajemsuhgao
Member
Generally when I play big team with friends there is one or two that are "designated drivers". They stick to vehicles mostly anyway. If you play big team and just hop in a vehicle without that ability, then yeah you run that risk. But in my personal experience, everyone tries to assume a role. I doubt my experience is common, but who knows.
Deputy Moonman
Member
In a way, though, it is 343's problem. Small arena style maps that promote fast and frenetic game play is one area where Halo has always excelled. And while not everyone is in to super competitive MLG, the core game play that makes MLG fun is universal across the board for everyone. I seriously don't understand the reasoning for taking out smaller maps, even with the addition of sprint being a base attribute. While sprint was limited in Reach, it was still there on small maps like reflection and never a problem.
You're always better at putting into words what I'm thinking. This is the same reason I'm not a huge fan of bloated vehicle combat in Halo. And it's also a reason I question moving away from smaller arena sized maps, which have always been very popular. They're not the only thing that's fun about halo, but they've always been a favorite of mine and many people. Not sure why sprint would ruin a midship sized map. When you're in close range of someone you aren't sprinting. You're battling it out. Sprint would only come into play when trying to get away. Seriously not a problem imo.I love Metal Gear.
I love Halo.
Somehow this doesn't seem right.
The base gameplay is so fast and so good I dont want BTB to just be heavies. That said 343 have surprised me a whole lot already, so im willing to bet its a LOT better than it looks.
I already mentioned upthread that I'd start by adding hardcore community Cartographers to be focused on building that playlist's content.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Yea MLG sucks. Why in the hell did they not have it with Arena rankings? Social MLG is like a slow speedboat. Useless.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
The more I look at Ragnarok the more it looks like a Forge environment to me. It just has that muted, less detailed slightly depraved look.
It's in engine, but I think it will only show up in cutscenes.
It's in engine, but I think it will only show up in cutscenes.
http://www.twitch.tv/tashiii
Stream is up. Trying to gather montage clips. Come watch me attempt crazy shit.
Stream is up. Trying to gather montage clips. Come watch me attempt crazy shit.
Poker Face
Member
Gunnerdude
Neo Member
Sooooo I'm just gonna leave this hear for anyone who cares to enter......
http://gamebattles.majorleaguegaming.com/giveaway
http://gamebattles.majorleaguegaming.com/giveaway
Poker Face
Member
Wow that was pretty cool. Although he only had one clip from Halo 4 so there's no way to know if that mechanic is unpredictable and inconsistent like he showed it to be in Reach.
HigherLevel
Member
Such a great game. I spent hours and hours playing that on the original Xbox with my sister split-screen. It was the only FPS I could ever get them to play besides Halo CE and 2.
Vire
Member
I stopped watching when he claimed Halo 1's multiplayer was "so well balanced".
Fun? Yes
Balanced? Hardly.
Was he saying that is a good thing or bad?
Hydranockz
Member
I picked up on that as well. It'll be a curious thing to see.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
You start with a pistol that you can hold your own with, it's balanced chum
Poker Face
Member
I feel like he's saying plasma nades could be considered power weapons, or OP to spawn with. But we don't know how the mechanic works yet.
thezerofire
Banned
with or without mixamp?
HigherLevel
Member
Balance isn't when every weapon is equal, it's when everyone starts off with an equal chance to succeed. With the magnum, everyone started off equal.
Aggrotek
Member
So glad instaplasmas are back.
Yea, I kinda don't understand his argument, but the clips were great. It's insane the amount of skill to perfectly get an "instasplode" off for triples and overs.
Someone also got ahold of the Kameo version from the original Xbox. It's pretty much the game you got on the 360.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZjOYca7lMM
Yeah those were sick. I also had no idea you could use grenades like that in Halo CE
YourExWife
Member
It's like he was saving the H3 clips for a montage of grenade brilliance, then pulled a Good Guy Walshy and just made a tutorial/informative video for us instead.
Without
Poker Face
Member
I used to absolutely love Rare when I was younger.
Killer Instinct
Conker's Bad Fur Day
GoldenEye 007
Banjo Kazooie
Donkey Kong
Blast Corps
Diddy Kong Racing
and somehow that turned into..
Kinect Sports.
Fuck you Microsoft.