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[IJoel]

I'm sure Wiki will take it down, anyone can edit that stuff.

Wow, that's despicable. People can be selfish jerks. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Grisby]

I just read the end of Halo 4, fuckers.

Do not go near Wikipedia, in case that wasn't obvious to everyone.

Damn, batten down all the hatches.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

In the end, Master Chief steps into a beam to stop Bowser from building a new competitor to the iPhone.

 

[BLAZER]

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the costs. Essentially, where does most of the money go? I'm sure it would be the advertising across the globe that makes up the large part.

 

[Cave Johnson]

fun fact

Quake came out 1 day before Mario 64

Mario 64 was outdated by the time it came out.

But base game mechanics are direct derivatives of quake/half-life

Mechanics used on top of it though are incredibly influential. Regenerating health, two weapons at a time, removal of auto pick up of weapons... Grenades as a standard (remember quake 2 grenades? Yikkkesssssss) and melee. These things were basically non-existent at time halo was released.

Quake 1 may actually start the 3D environment trend before mario. But one thing most people don't realize is that Mario 64 laid down the foundations in which ALL modern 3D games on console is based upon:

The Analog sticks.

1. To control said 3D character is space in one stick.

2. To alter the camera movement in the other.

But then again, Mario can be said to redefine how D-pads, shoulder buttons, the diamond face shaped buttons (heck almost EVERY modern aspect of the controller owes to this character)

The Wii-mote is the ONLY controller other than a M/KB set-up that can simultaneously move the character, camera and can register button input at the same time. The standard dual-analogs on the other hand can't since your "thumb" is allowed to choose between stick and face buttons.

 

[Pavaloo]

Quake 1 may actually start the 3D environment trend before mario. But one thing most people don't realize is that Mario 64 laid down the foundations in which ALL modern 3D games on console is based upon:

The Analog sticks.

1. To control said 3D character is space in one stick.

2. To alter the camera movement in the other.

But then again, Mario can be said to redefine how D-pads, shoulder buttons, the diamond face shaped buttons (heck almost EVERY modern aspect of the controller owes to this character)

The Wii-mote is the ONLY controller other than a M/KB set-up that can simultaneously move the character, camera and can register button input at the same time. The standard dual-analogs on the other hand can't since your "thumb" is allowed to choose between stick and face buttons.

Are these acclamations for Mario? Or rather the system he was on? I remember buying joystick controllers for my pc games. Hell, even just a joystick lol.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

Quake 1 may actually start the 3D environment trend before mario. But one thing most people don't realize is that Mario 64 laid down the foundations in which ALL modern 3D games on console is based upon:

The Analog sticks.

1. To control said 3D character is space in one stick.

2. To alter the camera movement in the other.

But then again, Mario can be said to redefine how D-pads, shoulder buttons, the diamond face shaped buttons (heck almost EVERY modern aspect of the controller owes to this character)

The Wii-mote is the ONLY controller other than a M/KB set-up that can simultaneously move the character, camera and can register button input at the same time. The standard dual-analogs on the other hand can't since your "thumb" is allowed to choose between stick and face buttons.

actually marathon started the 3d enviroment in 1994 by introducing different heights to fps levels, and it was also released on consoles in 1996. It was also one of the first fps games released on consoles. And while the apple jack controller didn't have a joystick it did have a trackball and shoulder buttons, and keyboard and mouse support, and tablet support on the console.

also, way to ignore shoulder, trigger, and joystick buttons on a gamepad.

 

[The Nature Roy]

The Wii-mote is the ONLY controller other than a M/KB set-up that can simultaneously move the character, camera and can register button input at the same time. The standard dual-analogs on the other hand can't since your "thumb" is allowed to choose between stick and face buttons.

Face buttons perhaps but not triggers, shoulder, and/or stick buttons. How often is the typical CoD player on Xbox 360 simultaneously moving their character, camera, and registering button inputs? Constantly.

 

[The Tofunator]

I just read the end of Halo 4, fuckers.

Do not go near Wikipedia, in case that wasn't obvious to everyone.

Just out of curiosity, was it any good? (No spoilers, of course.)

 

[TheOddOne]

Single player campaign was beat in 5 hours? A speedrun, or a regular runthrough?

It's absurd how much money these FPS games, or any console/"AAA" game supposedly costs -- it's questionable to say the least.

Seriously, though, I doubt it takes more than 10 hours at most to beat the campaign (Multiplayer doesn't really add more content -- you just fight other players on a couple of maps, or custom made maps with basic FPS mechanics, but that's not related to this.)

200 people, 100 million dollars, 10 hours (At the most) content. How is it even possible to spend that much money on such a project? And why would they openly admit that a 5-10 hour FPS game is the most expensive game they've ever made? I'd expect a massive open world game, or atleast a game with a massive amount of content with that budget.

And yes, I'm not a big fan of the massively overbudgeted Hollywood movies. The bigger the budget, the more generalized (And mediocre.) the movie will be, because they want it to appeal to as many people as possible when they've invested so much money.

Most open world games can be finished fast if you actually just go through the missions. Most open worlds have nothing in them.

As for "tacked" on multiplayer:

Reach was my least favorite Halo and I still played the shit out of the multiplayer.

 

[abadguy]

Single player campaign was beat in 5 hours? A speedrun, or a regular runthrough?

It's absurd how much money these FPS games, or any console/"AAA" game supposedly costs -- it's questionable to say the least.

Seriously, though, I doubt it takes more than 10 hours at most to beat the campaign (Multiplayer doesn't really add more content -- you just fight other players on a couple of maps, or custom made maps with basic FPS mechanics, but that's not related to this.)

200 people, 100 million dollars, 10 hours (At the most) content. How is it even possible to spend that much money on such a project? And why would they openly admit that a 5-10 hour FPS game is the most expensive game they've ever made? I'd expect a massive open world game, or atleast a game with a massive amount of content with that budget.

And yes, I'm not a big fan of the massively overbudgeted Hollywood movies. The bigger the budget, the more generalized (And mediocre.) the movie will be, because they want it to appeal to as many people as possible when they've invested so much money.

Have you ever played a Halo game? Going by this post i would assume you haven't . Halo games have never had overly long campaigns , its never needed to. Halo's campaigns lend themselves to multiple playthoughs thanks to the sandbox. Huge levels and excellent ai that reacts diffrently everytime you play it, unlike heavily scripted corridor shooters or the glorified shooting gallery that is COD single player.

Every Halo game since 3 has had massive amounts of content, between saved films and forge alone not even counting the mp.(which is played for years, Halo 2 went strong from 04 till well after H3 was released took MS to shut down the servers for people to stop ) Even Halo 4 taking into account the loss of campaign theater mode is more content rich than most other games. Also like a few others here have already said , you need to realise that a whole new dev studio with top not talent was created from the ground up to make this game .That ain'texactly cheap .

 

[Jac_Solar]

You don't just play Halo's campaign and then you're done with the game for good.

When I first got CE: I played through the game on Normal, then Heroic, then I had a bunch of friends come over and we played through on Normal, then Heroic, then we played HOURS of local multiplayer, then we played the game co-op on Legendary which took hours of passing the controllers around, then even more hours of local multiplayer, then I attempted to solo the game Legendary, then we had LAN parties every few weeks, and so on.

Then factor future additions to the series, such as internet multiplayer (adding hundreds of hours), Forge allowing for infinite custom gametypes and maps, Theater, Firefight, now Spartan Ops, the list goes on. The amount of time you can spend with a game isn't limited to how much concrete "content" is in the game, but rather the amount of fun you can have within the framework the game provides. Let's not forget that some of the undeniably best games ever made have been no more than a couple of hours long, but the "gameplay loops" there are so fun you don't mind doing them over and over and over and over for hundreds of hours.

Besides, you can't just equate content with money, it's not like "well, we can add fifty more quests, but it's going to cost us $50k, so we might be better off investing that $50k into getting us +50 graphics points"

True, but multiplayer is more of a repetitive sports/competitive activity than an "adventure", a journey.

100$ million, or there-abouts, is extreme for an FPS, and it was most likely spent on polish/graphics, which is a waste -- with that kind of budget, I'd expect more than multiplayer modes and a 10 hour campaign. Budget isn't related to content, but it should be to a certain degree. Imagine if Halo 4's budget was spent on an open world type game.

I'm just not a fan of multiplayer, though, so maybe that is why I want more from Halo.

Have you ever played a Halo game? Going by this post i would assume you haven't . Halo games have never had overly long campaigns , its never needed to. Halo's campaigns lend themselves to multiple playthoughs thanks to the sandbox. Huge levels and excellent ai that reacts diffrently everytime you play it, unlike heavily scripted corridor shooters or the glorified shooting gallery that is COD single player.

Every Halo game since 3 has had massive amounts of content, between saved films and forge alone not even counting the mp.(which is played for years, Halo 2 went strong from 04 till well after H3 was released took MS to shut down the servers for people to stop ) Even Halo 4 taking into account the loss of campaign theater mode is more content rich than most other games. Also like a few others here have already said , you need to realise that a whole new dev studio with top not talent was created from the ground up to make this game .That ain'texactly cheap .

I have played them all, except 2 I think. Might have played that as well. Not a big fan of any of them, but I did enjoy Reach.

Anyhow, was it really necessary to make a team of 200 people for an FPS game? I wonder what they all did -- seems excessive for an FPS game with a short campaign. I assume CoD also had a ridiculous budget compared to content. Where does all the money go? Polish?

 

[v1oz]

Actually Mario 64's major innovation was in the camera and 3rd person perspective tech. It became the template for all 3rd person games where you are completely free to go anyway and have full camera control.

What you guys don't realise is that before Mario 64 came out there was nothing else like it ever. Before that in the effort to bring platform games into 3D the industry was even experimenting with the first person perspective with games like Jumping Flash on ps1 in 1995.

They were other 3rd person games like shooter Fade to Black and later Crash Bandicoot but they had a rigid fixed perspective which basically was a 1st person camera pulled back behind the player. They didn't have the dynamic camera of Mario or total freedom of movement.

 

[v1oz]

Not even close. Halo set standards that are still in games to this day, and not just first-person shooters.

Halo didn't set any standards. Online was already done to death by Doom, Quake and Unreal. The dual stick control scheme was virtually identical to Turok Dinosaur Hunter from 1997. Even Goldeneye had the same control scheme. I think self replenishing health is the only thing that Halo brought to the industry.

But on consoles Goldeneye and Turok set the standard for fps shooters.

 

[TheOddOne]

I have played them all, except 2 I think. Might have played that as well. Not a big fan of any of them, but I did enjoy Reach.

Anyhow, was it really necessary to make a team of 200 people for an FPS game? I wonder what they all did -- seems excessive for an FPS game with a short campaign. I assume CoD also had a ridiculous budget compared to content. Where does all the money go? Polish?

Factor in Campaign, Spartan Ops, Forge, Multiplayer, ongoing multiplayer and Spartan Ops maps being made, ongoing content updates, set-up of a whole new trilogy, setting up a whole new studio, hiring top talent, hiring talent for each mode, concept stage, dealing with also publishing side, merchandising and marketing.

You seem to be thinking that all the money goes into the campaign.

 

[JonCha]

In Team Slayer Pro, how do weapon spawns work? If I understand correctly, there are initial weapon spawns at the beginning of the match, but after that everything is random. Does it work like that in objective games too?

I think they're classic spawns, so no 'less predictable' drops. A interview with Kevin Frankin is online discussing the playlist; just don't read the comments.

 

[Conor 419]

Doom.

LOL

Thank god Halo saved us from PC fps's, if every FPS stayed like Doom I would never have got into the genre.

 

[Vinterbird]

Factor in Campaign, Spartan Ops, Forge, Multiplayer, ongoing multiplayer and Spartan Ops maps being made, ongoing content updates, set-up of a whole new trilogy, setting up a whole new studio, hiring top talent, hiring talent for each mode, concept stage, dealing with also publishing side, merchandising and marketing.

You seem to be thinking that all the money goes into the campaign.

Ding ding ding. It takes a long time and a lot of peple to do something like Halo 4, and when you want to give them all a decent salary it will end up costing a lot of money.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Halo didn't set any standards. Online was already done to death by Doom, Quake and Unreal. The dual stick control scheme was virtually identical to Turok Dinosaur Hunter from 1997. Even Goldeneye had the same control scheme. I think self replenishing health is the only thing that Halo brought to the industry.

You contradict yourself. If replenishing health is the something Halo brought to the industry, then it did set standards.

But setting standards does not have to mean innovating, a game can set standards if it merely popularizes concepts other titles have introduced before. Limiting the amount of weapons you can carry to just two is one of those things, although Rise of the Triad did something similar before (not exactly the same since you could carry multiple weapons, but only one power weapon like a rocket launcher or a flame thrower). Vehicles you can enter and control at will is another (you could drive vehicles in The Terminator: Future Shock, but the vehicles had their own levels and the whole system lacked Halo's flexibility; Codename: Eagle also had vehicles, but its influence would only become apparent with the likes of Halo and Battlefield 1942). Grenades mapped to a separate button is yet another (again, Future Shock did that already; it was ahead of its time in many ways, including mouse aim). Claiming that Halo's success didn't directly influence this industry is ludicrous.

That said, claiming the same for Mario 64 and RE4 is equally as crazy.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

GIMME MA HDR lighting, 343.

 

[OverHeat]

GIMME MA HDR lighting, 343.

On new hardware sure. but I dont want resolution to be sacrified for HDR...on the 360

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I frankly wouldn't give a fuck. HALO 3 still looks beautiful to me.

 

[GrizzNKev]

I frankly wouldn't give a fuck. HALO 3 still looks beautiful to me.

Just wait for Destiny. I'm confident it will be impressive.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Just wait for Destiny. I'm confident it will be impressive.

Oh, I'm waiting. I've been waiting for a long, long time. I have the utmost faith in whatever they're slowly cooking up. Haven't they been working on it since mid just before HALO 3 launched in 2007?

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

On new hardware sure. but I dont want resolution to be sacrified for HDR...on the 360

Resolution is really, really overrated in my opinion. The only thing that bothered me somewhat, at the time, in Halo 3 was the aliasing, which in theory could be fixed with a low cost post process method. The common symptoms of a low res game include blurry texture/ low detail overall IQ. Apart form the aliasing, Halo 3's IQ was great at the at time. The textures were crisp and the lighting was amazing.

 

[Dictator93]

GIMME MA HDR lighting, 343.

Halo 4 still has HDR, just a lower precision HDR.

Not some crazy 128bit we overlay two rendered images stuff.

 

[daxter01]

Halo didn't set any standards. Online was already done to death by Doom, Quake and Unreal. The dual stick control scheme was virtually identical to Turok Dinosaur Hunter from 1997. Even Goldeneye had the same control scheme. I think self replenishing health is the only thing that Halo brought to the industry.

But on consoles Goldeneye and Turok set the standard for fps shooters.

I think there was a Tribes game before Halo that had regenerating health

 

[NemesisPrime]

Halo didn't set any standards. Online was already done to death by Doom, Quake and Unreal. The dual stick control scheme was virtually identical to Turok Dinosaur Hunter from 1997. Even Goldeneye had the same control scheme. I think self replenishing health is the only thing that Halo brought to the industry.

But on consoles Goldeneye and Turok set the standard for fps shooters.

Wow... some people.

 

[StuBurns]

Just out of curiosity, was it any good? (No spoilers, of course.)

It would be impossible to tell. It was literally just a four sentence breakdown.

 

[Hindle]

Gaf didn't like Reach? Great game made even better that the elites were back, I hated fighting the Brutes in H3.

 

[Popeck]

Gaf didn't like Reach? Great game made even better that the elites were back, I hated fighting the Brutes in H3.

And the Brutes in Reach were just pathetic, unlike in Halo 3.

 

[Petrichor]

Gaf didn't like Reach? Great game made even better that the elites were back, I hated fighting the Brutes in H3.

I hated fighting elites in reach with the DMR - almost impossible for me on heroic or legendary.

And the brutes were a joke to fight - needler or needle rifle for easy victory.

 

[GrizzNKev]

Oh, I'm waiting. I've been waiting for a long, long time. I have the utmost faith in whatever they're slowly cooking up. Haven't they been working on it since mid just before HALO 3 launched in 2007?

Yeah. I recall them saying they were working on three projects. Two familiar, one not.

ODST, Reach, and Destiny.

 

[S1kkZ]

On new hardware sure. but I dont want resolution to be sacrified for HDR...on the 360

the problem with halo 3's iq was the lack of anti-aliasing. i take hdr over 720p anytime. h3 is still a fantastic looking game (human faces aside).

 

[Feindflug]

Resolution is really, really overrated in my opinion. The only thing that bothered me somewhat, at the time, in Halo 3 was the aliasing, which in theory could be fixed with a low cost post process method. The common symptoms of a low res game include blurry texture/ low detail overall IQ. Apart form the aliasing, Halo 3's IQ was great at the at time. The textures were crisp and the lighting was amazing.

Yep, the lighting is still gorgeous and the textures are very good...Halo 3 would've looked so much better with FXAA and better texture filtering even at 640p.

Sometimes I wonder what Bungie or 343 could do with the scale/geometry, numbers of enemies and such if they kept the Halo 3 engine with some minor improvements (PPAA & some decent amount of AF).

 

[szaromir]

Bungie went completely nuts with the use of colors in Halo 3 and I loved it. It's the most colorful Halo game to date and will probably stay that way - brutes in light purple armor with sunlighting bouncing off it looked incredible, and were a stark contrast to games of that period that went for muted colors (Gears of War, Call of Duty, etc.).

 

[Woorloog]

the problem with halo 3's iq was the lack of anti-aliasing. i take hdr over 720p anytime. h3 is still a fantastic looking game (human faces aside).

The end cutscene in Tsavo Highway, that Assault Carrier's edge... ugh.

Halo 3 with higher FOV and at least 2x AA would be very, very nice.

Bungie went completely nuts with the use of colors in Halo 3 and I loved it. It's the most colorful Halo game to date and will probably stay that way - brutes in light purple armor with sunlighting bouncing off it looked incredible, and were a stark contrast to games of that period that went for muted colors (Gears of War, Call of Duty, etc.).

Yes. I love colorful games, and Halo 3 is on top of my list for this reason. Like Halo CE Anniversary too for this reason.

 

[NekoFever]

Bungie went completely nuts with the use of colors in Halo 3 and I loved it. It's the most colorful Halo game to date and will probably stay that way - brutes in light purple armor with sunlighting bouncing off it looked incredible, and were a stark contrast to games of that period that went for muted colors (Gears of War, Call of Duty, etc.).

I loved this too. For about a year my desktop background was just Halo 3 screens from the in-game screenshot feature because it was so gorgeous. IIRC there was a brilliant thread on here with some beautiful ones as well.

 

[szaromir]

I think it'd be amazing if MS published a Sony-style HD collection of X360 Halo games but on the next Xbox, with 1080p native res, FXAA and good texture filtering (and rock solid 30fps, Reach being the main culprit here). Basically playing Halo 3 photo mode in real time would be an incredible experience. The game holds up so well gameplay-wise I'd replay it multiple times.

 

[dragonelite]

I think it'd be amazing if MS published a Sony-style HD collection of X360 Halo games but on the next Xbox, with 1080p native res, FXAA and good texture filtering (and rock solid 30fps, Reach being the main culprit here). Basically playing Halo 3 photo mode in real time would be an incredible experience. The game holds up so well gameplay-wise I'd replay it multiple times.

Would love that.

 

[abadguy]

Bungie went completely nuts with the use of colors in Halo 3 and I loved it. It's the most colorful Halo game to date and will probably stay that way - brutes in light purple armor with sunlighting bouncing off it looked incredible, and were a stark contrast to games of that period that went for muted colors (Gears of War, Call of Duty, etc.).

One of the things i did'nt like about Reach as far as art direction went, the color seemed pretty muted compared to other games in the series though still not as bad as it is in other shooters. Good to see that 343 improved the art direction without desatuating everything.

 

[Reiko]

I think it'd be amazing if MS published a Sony-style HD collection of X360 Halo games but on the next Xbox, with 1080p native res, FXAA and good texture filtering (and rock solid 30fps, Reach being the main culprit here). Basically playing Halo 3 photo mode in real time would be an incredible experience. The game holds up so well gameplay-wise I'd replay it multiple times.

Why stop at it 30fps? 60fps Halo 3 or go home.

 

[Rootbeer]

All this insane money they throw at developing it and it's not even multi-platform. Awesome!

 

[flamingotripod]

All this insane money they throw at developing it and it's not even multi-platform. Awesome!

Ya they should make it playable on the surface too at least

 

[DR2K]

All this insane money they throw at developing it and it's not even multi-platform. Awesome!

Yeah what's with Nintendo not port Mario on every platform? Literally millions of sales down the drain.

 

[BigTnaples]

Halo 3 was and is a beautiful game.

If they released an "HD" version with nothing but 1080p 4xAA 16xAF and remodeled the human faces it would be jaw dropping.

 

[TEH-CJ]

Do people still consider halo 3 to be the best halo?

 

[Pavaloo]

Do people still consider halo 3 to be the best halo?

It's certainly my favorite.

 

[TEH-CJ]

It's certainly my favorite.

Holy crap man your not wrong. Im just replaying halo 3 now and holy fuck the tsavo highway section is incredible!

how come reach didn't have this sort of scale??

 

[bishoptl]

All this insane money they throw at developing it and it's not even multi-platform. Awesome!