Have I told you the good news about Two Worlds II?
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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
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Have I told you the good news about Two Worlds II?
Going to CCP in Atlanta. Going to STALKER 2's studio in the Ukraine. Going to...?
Could be possible. If Jeff was serious. But the ad-sponsorship and how that censors them is my major issue with that.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Klepilk and the GB crew pretty much said:
"Yeah we do all this stuff (freebies, trips, swag, etc.) but our work should speak for itself, and you should trust us"
As if they're somehow immune to any PR influence.
Listen, I find the GB crew to be very entertaining, but their buddy-buddy relationships with gaming PR presents a conflict of interest on a near daily basis. I'm really surprised that CBS lets them get away with it.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
No. But speaking only for myself, the relevance of the enthusiast press has been substantially diminished with the rise in social networking. Not sure how well the metrics would back that up, but as with many of the folks here, I go to GAF to talk shop and read up on games. The only time I deviate is when I go directly to Giant Bomb to check out a quick-look to do just that...get a look at the games visuals and a sense of how it may play based off the impressions. Otherwise, if I'm visiting a site, it's because it's been linked here, and I want to see what all of the fuss is about.
Don't know if that's just the natural evolution for all of this, the result of poor practices on the part of the press, or what.
An EviLore created OT where you were thanked for the videos...I was kidding, I don't wanna know anymore.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Anyone think the next WC podcast will address Andrea Rene's tweets?
RedNumberFive
Banned
I'm sure we'll hear about how we're all just jealous.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
Have any ex journalists chimed in on this? Like IGN crew circa mid 2000's (Casamasina, Harris, Fran, etc)?
Of course.
Surely she will feel the need to explain herself so that her professional reputation doesn't suffer damage. And I am sure Garnett will not deny her that chance.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Quoted for new page. So fucking hilarious!
Still interested to hear the Stuart Campbell story talked about earlier in the thread - why was he "effectively blacklisted" by some journalists in the past? Don't really know much about him outside of a couple of the publications he wrote for, the Driv3r article, and his articles since this story broke.
Was this posted already?:
Rock, Paper, Shotgun (finally) speaking about this:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...on-the-eurogamerflorence-debacle/#more-129805
Rock, Paper, Shotgun (finally) speaking about this:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...on-the-eurogamerflorence-debacle/#more-129805
Best Possible Outcome: Andrea is out, Garnett addresses the issue at the top of the show and explains in detail the nature of their relationship. He then apologizes for being complicit as a cog in the PR machine and vows to be more transparent and only include people on the show whose opinions are worth more than the sweat on my taint.
What Will Most Likely Happen: Andrea will be on the show and they will only brush lightly against the topic, accuse us of wearing tin foil hats and laugh at our naivete before shilling NFS, again.
EternalGamer
Banned
This is my favorite thing you said. Because what I want to hear most is that you ARE constantly thinking about this sort of thing and that you are "sweating it."
In regards to the Nintendo 3DS delivery, just out of curiousity, how does this thing even happen. Did they call you up and ask you if you would mind if a truck (bus? caravan?) fully of women stop by? Did you get a PR letter "Truck full of ladies to bring you a 3DS later today!" Was it required that you endure that PR stunt just to get a unit? That whole thing is absolutely bizarre.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Eh, it's less we should trust them, more "hopefully you trust us but if not then that's fine". I can't be cynical about those guys, they're too fucking honest about everything for that.
EternalGamer
Banned
MonsterDunk said:
So if I am reading this correctly, the week after all this blew up, Microsoft sent the press Halo branded Doritos with autographs (from the Halo team?!).
RedNumberFive
Banned
I like the guys too, but I'm not sure why they're getting a free pass on this one.
Yeah, I also somewhat puzzled by that.
Eh, the Internet can be a beautiful thing for journalism, can make it much better than print media.
Maybe I just misread Jeff's post, but I'm not sure why he would think we have a problem with non-endemic advertising. If anything, I wish there was more of it as nothing is more off-putting than going to a game site and seeing game ads. "Giant Bomb World Tour presented by Burger King!"? No issues. "Giant Bomb World Tour presented by Burger King & Microsoft!"? Ugh, maybe not.
Yes, we did a bit of ribbing with all the Mountain Dew and Doritos jokes, but had the video/screencap been absent the Halo connection, I don't think it would have caused half as much controversy. It maybe would have been slightly distasteful, but 'corrupt'? Definitely not.
Yes, we did a bit of ribbing with all the Mountain Dew and Doritos jokes, but had the video/screencap been absent the Halo connection, I don't think it would have caused half as much controversy. It maybe would have been slightly distasteful, but 'corrupt'? Definitely not.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Probably not in the way most of us would find satisfying or professional.
It's crazy how quickly they are to throw away all credibility.
EternalGamer
Banned
Jeff's response to this was that he thinks it is true that PR is trying to influence and color perspectives and probably does to some degree but that there are bigger problems with them trying to cut out the press directly via things like staged interviews, YouTube bribery and mass marketing/pre-order blitz.
I agree with him that those things are troubling. And it makes me think twice about some earlier arguments I made about just depending upon people I know and online communities rather than games media. But I would also say that this problem just makes it that much more important that if games media wants to stay relevant for their audience they need to base their value on that critical distance they form.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
To be honest PS3 16 Reviews (7 PS-specific sites) and only IGN being one the majors.
360 has 89 critical reviews
Most of them didn't review it because they never got it. Hard to mention the problems in a review of a game they didn't get to review.
The Guardian wrote a piece on this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/oct/30/video-game-journalism?CMP=twt_fd
EternalGamer
Banned
I am not saying they get a pass. But they do get more benefit of the doubt than most due to:
-Jeff's history
-the way they regularly poke fun at PR shenanigans
-Jeff's comment about how he does constantly think about this sort of thing
-the clear condemnation of the recent reveals of overt PR relationships by both Jeff and Patrick.
Someone gets it.
I would like to thank Jeffrey Michael Gerstmann for his contributions in this thread and this subject. And yes, I would buy your book at a high price.
9.5 is a great way to go... I'd hate to say '10', ethics, ya know? Nor will a 9 work, that's too low. But if want business, you never say no.
Glad to see this list getting bigger by the day. Glad there are writers, who are not letting it die easily.
Yeah, it's been posted and discussed days ago.
You might wanna go read Gerstmann's posts in this thread.
Jerk for the 9.5 make a living.. barely get by.. no take and all givin'.
9.5 is a great way to go... I'd hate to say '10', ethics, ya know? Nor will a 9 work, that's too low. But if want business, you never say no.
Yes, I think anyone who believes they're above influence needs to re-examine themselves or take a cognitive psychology course. Or a neuroscience class.
Influence and impression go so far beyond facile things like "I was asked to give this game 5 stars by the PR guy but I gave it 3 instead, so therefore I am impartial." The effects that others can have on you can be so much more subtle and immeasurable.
It's a classic case of "I don't see it, therefore it doesn't exist" syndrome. A huge portion of our decision making process is under the surface not just to others, but to our own consciousness. We work hide inside our own heads to convince ourselves that we are independent, clear thinking individualists because it's more pleasing to us, but virtually all science I've seen on the topic does not suggest it's actually true. For any of us.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
It's a good start.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Because they're an open book, and the majority of people reading the pages aren't seeing anything weird written down. The bigger picture? Yeah, they have the same issues as everyone else. I believe they can work on it, though- as opposed to others who seem less likely to actually change as a result of all this.
I'm not saying they're entitled to a free pass, I just think it's fair to be fairer to them considering their relative levels of transparency. Likewise for Eurogamer, RPS, PA Report etc.
Serious question: Which was the foul committed by Andrea?
1. That she incorrectly included herself as part of the group she was attempting to defend during her last podcast?; or
2. That she fucked up by grabbing that carrot EA dangled in front of her?
I know precisely jack and shit about Machinima aside from the fact that they release some video content that interests me, but (and no offense intended towards Andrea at all here), I never...for one fucking second...considered Andrea as anything more than a talking head who hosted video content about games and hopped on WC to chew the fat with Garnett and company from time to time.
Her 'voice' was, in no way, authoritative to me when it comes to games, and I never considered her ethics in performing her responsibilities, because I never perceived her as being part of that group.
Interesting to read that other people considered her position differently. I just think she fucked up on that last podcast by making comments that suggested she was part of it.
RedNumberFive
Banned
I have, and it seems pretty consistent with what I wrote.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Good article. Makes me feel a little bad for the honest folks that have to weather the storm, but I feel like they were part of the problem as well for not calling out these shenanigans sooner. This is the result of a gaming culture that was, for the most part, complicit or at least turning away from the uglier side. This is why we get the Wainwrights and Scammell's and Andre Renee's, the one who see nothing wrong with shady as fuck acts, because their peers never said stop it, you're killing us.
That's why we've gotten to this point where the only acceptable solution is to nuke it from orbit.
MonsterDunk
bigdaddygamebot
Member
I think this one is rather interesting as well, given the text of the original article by Rab Florence:
This is messed up. Receiving monetary bonuses from publishers for covering games is the evil brown-envelope bribery example many are saying isn't an issue. If Garnett knew about this without disclosing it to the people who listened to WC, that's just sad. Once you take a check or bonus from a the source you are covering, you are no longer an independent commentator.
chickdigger802
Banned
Seriously gerstmann is like the first press guy in this thread that admits that he stresses over this stuff, while everyone else is smug and loling around.
That alone is worth something.
That alone is worth something.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
It should be noted that a regular contributor to the Guardians games coverage was one of the original # tweeters (Steve Boxer), it will be interesting to see his next few articles/reviews on the site.
Andrea never disclosed she was doing contract work for EA at the time of commenting on EA products on the show. Garnett as a host, didn't tell us that. Garnett disclosed that he couldn't talk about Ariel's PSABR game on the show because he's in a relationship with her.
Not disclosing this before the show is a violation of trust.
Agent Unknown
Member
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I still anticipate Klepek and GB glossing this over though.
EternalGamer
Banned
"1 follower away from 20k.. WHAT IS THIS?! FOLLOW ME BITCHES "
I looked. What am I looking for?
EDIT: Thank you, JABEE...mulling over that one now while checking out some add'l links. Much obliged.
grimshawish
Banned
This is exactly what all editors should be writing atm; just an explanation of their policies - even if they think its 'fine for them' it may not be fine for the 'readers' (who we can argue are not the customers, the game advertisers is, and were the product; not the articles). Until they do then am not going to pretend they have any integrity.
Keith seems to understand how damaging this has all been, and am pretty shocked other sites haven't picked up on this yet. He might not deal with all the issues I feel are in the industry but at least he wrote on it.
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