KojiKnight
Member
Where exactly is this feminism push in video games exactly? I'd love to see/hear some examples of feminism being pushed in video games.
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Man Edits Wind Waker so 3-Year Old Daughter Doesn't Feel 2nd Class
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Where exactly is this feminism push in video games exactly? I'd love to see/hear some examples of feminism being pushed in video games.
Vermillion
Banned
Eh, I'm more concerned about the motive.
It's nice, but superfluous. But to be fair, a lot of things are superfluous.
And that episode of Adventure Time was hilarious.
People wouldn't have to bring up that example in pretty much every thread like this if there was more than, say, five prominent examples ("But what about Chell from Portal and Faith from Mirror's Edge??"). Honestly speaking, do you really think that there are "plenty" of female heroines in high profile games and franchises?
Yep.
Fahrenheit
Banned
Are you asking me whats wrong with male guilt? Also the feminism being pushed is radical. It be like changing Moby Dicks Ishmael to Isabella.
Well the first example would be the thing this thread is about. Also look at how much cash the Tropes Vs Women kickstarter got. Also Wolfkill and Ross have comments about sexist comments getting you banned from live.
Fahrenheit
Banned
Well in this age of enlightenment a women can be short, fat, and have a mustache and be sociable acceptable.
Read the article, it's pretty clear this is something she enjoys doing with her dad. Plus experiences like these (reading text) are kind of the experiences a child needs to learn to read.
And as pointed out it kind of shows the problem if BG&E's the one example people most commonly cite... with the next best being something better saved for a few years later due to the creepy/horror factor (Metroid).
There's definitely some questionable bits from what I recall, and it may well still be too girly depending on the preferences, but they definitely seem to be some of the more positive examples, though I guess if you're looking for something that's more epic adventure like Zelda they wouldn't quite do.
I think people bring up Beyong G&E because it's the most similar example to Zelda and features a female heroine. Also, it's good for a 3 years old. Though i guess he could get Rhapsody, or Atelier Annie.
Cornet, Shion Uzuki, Samus, Regina (and most SH heroines), April Ryan, Aya Brea, Aigis, Monica, Chris, Jill Valentine, Terra and Celes and another bunch of females from various jrpg (Such Annie from Atelier, Riza from Rudra, Virginia from WA3, some DQ games), Heather, Maya Amano, Lyn, Aqua, April Ryan, Yuna, Lenneth and Silmeria/Alicia, Ayame... the first names that come up in my head.
You may argue that not all of them are good or whatever, the point is that there are a lot of female heroines around.
Nice April Ryan mention. Loved that game. Now list all guy characters that come to mind.
What I like about the whole thing is that the dad took a hero story presumably made for a boy and made it for a girl. And it shouldn't matter. Shouldn't really change anything.
One thing that bugs me with female characters in games is that they sometimes end up being made a certain way since they are female. Like they are made into artists, or are really sensitive, or are taking care of children or men or nursing animals or sure they're tough but vulnerable. You don't see the male heroes doing that stuff.
I once worked at a company where a comic artist sent his pencil work in to be coloured and finished essentially. It was a title with women as the main characters and he didn't want a guy working on it. I was a little put off at the time, thinking that I could have done a decent job on it. But thinking back, yeah I could totally see his concerns with the guys making them pretty and over accentuating their breasts and similar crap.
I'd love for a company to plan out a game and then at the end decide if they were male or female and then just do it without altering the story.
So radical it's barely noticeable? I mean videogames must the most male oriented media ever so I find your stance very weird.
Totally false.
All this boohooing about male guilt is incredibly silly. Feminism isn't about making you feel guilty for being male, it's about making you aware of the privileges you have as a male.
What this guy did for his daughter is very sweet. There's nothing wrong with it. It isn't radical feminism.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
I theory, yes. In reality feminsm is nothing more than a movement to make women superior to men.
Ugh, no. No it isn't.
Nice excuse you've just invented to shout down anything to do with feminism, though.
Always-honest
Banned
I think it would be great if male / female characters would be available for option in a lot of games.
Seems like a bit of a hassle to do it for a three year old who doesn't notice a thing about it, but i like the idea.
Un-secondclassing girls and women world wide seems like a must in general. It's criminal how they are treated in some countries.
Seems like a bit of a hassle to do it for a three year old who doesn't notice a thing about it, but i like the idea.
Un-secondclassing girls and women world wide seems like a must in general. It's criminal how they are treated in some countries.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
There isn't more needed. Sooner or later you'll realize how pointless this movement is. I just hope it's going to be actually before the whole thing bites you women in the ass - or us men that is. We'll just have to wait and see how this turns out. However, what feminism wants in "theory" will never be achieved.
This was depressing to read. You're a terrible person. It has been a while since I've seen such blatant sexism, such blatant hatred for women and their fight for equality. You are clearly uneducated when it comes to women's issues.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Yeah, I know. Me an asshole.
Just let me illustrate something to you. Todays politics are ruled by men growing up in an age when womens stand in socity was well... lower than today. So naturally they're doing something to make it better these days. However it seems that in their effort to make it better men often get treated like shit (see divorce rights). And I can tell you straight that many young men are pissed today. Now guess what'll happen when todays youth becomes tomorrows politicians?
Feminism just goes way to far way to often and I think this is doomed to turn ugly sooner or later. It's not about equality any more, probably never has been.
Doctor Decimate
Member
why are we praising such a hilarious overreaction? i'd be laughed at if i went through the Harry Potter books and changed his name to "Harriet" with a big black marker
Metal Gear?!
Member
That's a pretty good avatar/post combo you have going on, I can just imagine Mahmoud Ahmadinejad saying that:
"In reality feminism is nothing more than a movement to make women superior to men"
Male privilege does not like to be challenged...
...aaaaand there's a new example of it every minute.
MRAs fighting against feminism because of divorce anecdotes are the worst.
You're still talking completely out of your ass. Men are not treated like shit. Society is still dominated by the patriarchy and it's full of latent sexism towards women. It affects men too, but not even close to the way you think it does and not nearly to the extent it affects women.
Feminism does not go way too far. You clearly have no idea what feminism is and have never interacted with feminists. How about you go learn something and check your privilege instead of blowing shit out your ass in an attempt to stifle feminism.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Amusing romhack, pointless waste of time, or "radical feminism"? You be the judge!
I'd love to know what planet you grew up on in which this post isn't the result of a persecution complex.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Your jimmies seem rustled, calm down.
But post illustrates perfectly what I'm about (in a small scale of course). Assuming I wrote that post of yours I'd be banned here in no time. But you of course won't be affected.
And believe me, I do perfectly understand what feminism is about. But like I said, you're going for a lost cause. There will never be equality, no matter how how you try. Except you find a way to make us all asexual, equal in physical strenght etc.
Women logic...
lorebringer
Member
The combination of avatar and content is just too good. This has to be a troll.
I'm not a woman, by the way. I'm just a decent human being.
And yeah, I'm annoyed by privileged folks who shit on others. Sue me.
Edit: There will never be equality so long as people like you refuse to change (and continue to say incredibly insulting shit like women logic). I have no idea what sexuality or physical strength has to do with treating everybody equally and with respect.
Everyone thinks Link name is Zelda anyway, she'll be safe.
Metroid is a guy and halo is a guy.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
What is this? Are you friggin joking?
As long as you are sexually affected by a women you will NEVER treat her equal to a men.
First I thought you are a women but now I see your just a typical white knight that puts women on a pedestral. Well, guess what? If you put them on a pedestral your NOT equal.
Yeah, that's what it should be.
But often it's not.
Say a marriage goes to shit. Who will get to pay the bills? Almost all the time the man of course. Who is keeping the children? The woman of course, almost all the time. And the man isn't even able to see his kids unless the woman allows him to do so. Is this equalism? Is this fair? Not at all. And that's not even new.
Genital mutilation done to young boys is totally allowed in my country, even in case of religious reasons. Of course it's forbidden when done to girls (which is totally fine of course, but it shouldn't be allowed in any case).
I mean even here, I have to ask myself what the goal is. Yes, there were way way more males as protagonists, especially in the NES/SNES/N64 days. Why you ask? Because almost all the gamers back then were male (*). Especially personal computers were 100% nerd-territory, the "cool kids" didn't touch them, 99.9% females were not interested in them at all. The latter changed in the last maybe 10 years. But still even nowadays software development for example is almost exclusive to males, almost all females just do not want to do this job. But the game situation is getting better, because more and more females are starting to play games, which results in publishers asking for more games with female protagonists.
For example if Mass Effect was released 20 years ago, I definitely don't think that FemShepard would have been included. Not because of misogynous behaviour, but because it would have made no sense to do so, because almost no female would have played the game - having a gender selection in that game costs plenty of money. Nowadays it makes sense money-wise, that's why it's done. It takes time of course, it's a process.
Although what should be the final goal? 50:50? If 10 games are released next month, 5 should have a male protagonist and 5 a female one? Should it be made mandatory? Or even better: Why not prefer females all the time, just like laws in some countries (like mine), so that way more female protagonists are in games (maybe 60-70% or even more?), just like way more females get jobs in public service (like in my country and not just since a few years, this is the case for over 10 years now)? Doesn't that sound great? But it doesn't sound like equalism to me. It sounds like discrimination of males.
Even equalism in this case. What would that be? A fixed 50/50% rate?
And I bet that even if the total rate would be 60% males/40% females, people would still complain. Funnily I bet that noone would complain, if the rate would be 40% males/60% females. The public service job situation in my country is even worse than that and noone cares. And those laws were demanded by so called feminists. Laws that prefer females all the time, which is definitely not equalism.
(*) - I personally wouldn't have cared in any case, but just look at sales of Ico for example. I bought it, but protagonist is a little boy with a stick == sells like shit.
In character pool heavy games? For sure. As leaders in huge franchises? Nope. And the few ones are sexual objectified.
Saw the white knight coming. I can see why you'd say something like this
if you think standing up for women's rights means I expect/want sexual recompense. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that ain't the case. You see, like I said before, I'm just a decent human being.
And I fail to see how I'm putting women on a pedestal.
Let me translate:
"Here, let me set up this hypothetical situation so I may ask rhetorical questions and agree with myself."
I disagree with circumcision, but don't try and equate it with FGM. They're pretty different things.
The fact they aren't from popular games (who cares? Stop playing only popular shit) doesn't have anything to do with the thread.
Males without foreskin don't have the same sexual feelings as males with foreskin.
Foreskin contains thousands of nerves that are there exclusively for sexual pleasure. And those are cut away because parents are religious maniacs. Lubrication is also way worse, if not even not existant anymore, which in turn may hurt females during sex.
It shouldn't be allowed, that's the point. And so called feminists argue EXACTLY your way. I mean if a 18years+ male decides to do so - perfectly fine. But don't do this shit to any child.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
All this thread needs now is someone to point it towards a discussion about tipping.
Motion Picture Soundtrack
Member
oh my god
Like I said, I disagree with it. I'm not an American and circumcision rarely happens in my country and it's usually frowned upon unless necessary. However, routine male circumcision is not the same as FGM. FGM is far more destructive and is not performed for health reasons. Routine male circumcision is performed for health reasons, however trivial I or others think they may be.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
That's not what I suggested. Do not evade my statement. In order for there to be equality you'd have to treat and talk to women like you do with men. But you don't. No one does. It's nature. You will favour the other gender most of the time in one way or another. Therefore there will be no real equality - ever.
It is absolutely what you suggested and I did not evade your statement. So please, Mr. Sexist, do not try and speak for me. Do not imagine that I behave or think like you.
Aquamarine
Member
-------^ This.
The sheer amount of successful women in the workplace indicate that millions "treat and talk to women like you do with men." I don't know where your absurd claims come from.
Semantics should it be then?
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Your a funny guy. I give up. Clearly wasting my time here.
Divorce is a hypothetical situation?
http://www.divorce-lawyer-source.com/html/custody/fathers.html
Like I already wrote: It's allowed in my country for fucking religious reasons by LAW. Do you understand how crazy this is?
And even the so called "health reasons" are almost all the time phimosis, which can be treated without genital mutilation, but who cares, they are boys.
I'm sorry. He quoted just that (which was 1 block out of my 8 or 9 block post). If everything else is ignored, I can't help it.
We are talking about videogame heroes, not divorces.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
So not being treated equaly means a women can't be successfull? It's getting riddiculus here.
Do you live in a bubble? There is reason why Jade Raymond is shown around like a trophy.
AtomskEater
Member
Responding to one of jimi_dini's points above (quoting is a hilarious mess on this phone), I think there was an article posted pages back that drew the conclusion that even if gender representation is equal, males are more likely to believe there is an inequality occuring. Yes, maybe some people won't be satisfied one way or the other, but those people shouldn't really be the main consideration in this discussion. There doesn't have to be a mandated 50-50 representation in games, but the audience for games is expanding and becoming more varied by leaps and bounds. I suppose the only way we'll really see more varied heroes is if more people from different demographics begin developing games.
On some of your other points, it is true that many laws relating to divorce, child custody, etc are lopsided. This probably stems from rigid definitions of gender roles (man = main provider, woman = caregiver), which is one thing feminists, ideally, hope to break down. In other countries they have made good strides in increasing the length of paternity leave, for example.
Wish I had more time to construct a better post, but this screen is killing me.
On some of your other points, it is true that many laws relating to divorce, child custody, etc are lopsided. This probably stems from rigid definitions of gender roles (man = main provider, woman = caregiver), which is one thing feminists, ideally, hope to break down. In other countries they have made good strides in increasing the length of paternity leave, for example.
Wish I had more time to construct a better post, but this screen is killing me.
Look at Jade Raymond for example. She is sick of creating shooters over and over again. But it's still done. I agree with her, but shooters sell.
Which means one would have to change the entire audience (which I guess is impossible, there will always be dude-bros) or expand it (which happens). Which means the situation will change over time as more and more females get to play games.
If more females than males would play Call Of Duty, I bet my ass that the protagonists of the next CoD would be female. They will never do that currently (female protagonists only), because the risk would be too high that it won't sell.
I guess the best situation to hope for is "dual gender" a la Mass Effect. This is imo the best solution, but it costs a lot, which is another problem.
At least in my country there is noone, that is working on "breaking those down". Yes, you are right. Following the feminist definition, no feminist should like it. The current legal situation prefers females all the way based on classical gender roles. Going against it would demolish financial advantages.
I mean the public service legal situation is also exactly what feminists shouldn't want. Females are prefered because they are females, not because they are doing better. Which means that females, who ARE better than the other candidates are worse off. I mean they get the job, sure. But people will say that they got the job, because they are female, not because they were the better candidate. Which means that the feminists, who demanded those laws, just wanted an artificial advantage. They didn't care about anything else. Which I find sad.
The fact that people are consistently bringing up Beyond Good and Evil should be telling us something.