H_Prestige
Banned
Miyazaki doesn't work for Namco. Why do you think his new game is being published by them?
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Dark Souls II (PS3/360/PC) - Edge Magazine details (Prepare yourself)
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Miyazaki doesn't work for Namco. Why do you think his new game is being published by them?
They must know if they stray too far away, the community will murder them right? There are plenty of things Dark Souls could have added without messing things up. I was pretty Lttp for Dark Souls but I am well up for DS2, just to see if they can learn from the mistakes of the first 2 games and actually improve on its weaknesses. I am sure everyone wants it to do well and expands the audience, as long as it does not get dumbed down for the core.
Cast aside from the Souls series.
When I first saw the trailer, I think I wondered if they had fired the guy who designed the world of Dark Souls/Demons Souls, or the director. Wasn't sure what his name was. [Miyazaki]
As stated earlier, games are team efforts -- it is rare for a single person to develop a "style" in games, something that would make fans know who designed it, as opposed to in movies, for example.
But this is the first time where I think a single person makes a big difference to the game -- the very first trailer/Teaser they released didn't have the Dark Souls/Demon Souls feel. (Dark Souls trailers were uniquely Dark Souls.)
Or maybe it is intentional. If so, then that sucks.
As stated earlier, games are team efforts -- it is rare for a single person to develop a "style" in games, something that would make fans know who designed it, as opposed to in movies, for example.
But this is the first time where I think a single person makes a big difference to the game -- the very first trailer/Teaser they released didn't have the Dark Souls/Demon Souls feel. (Dark Souls trailers were uniquely Dark Souls.)
Or maybe it is intentional. If so, then that sucks.
H_Prestige
Banned
While I agree the trailer didn't have the Souls feel, it's worth noting that it wasn't even made by FROM.
I guess that depends on how well the new guys do.
Might be interesting to see Miyasaki do some DLC for it...if he has time of course.
Well, even the setting/outlining/plot of the events in the trailer, which was probably From's idea, was generic in nature.
Fried Food
Banned
the guy I was quoting connected Namco with Miyazaki. Miyazaki works for FROM correct? Namco has published many of FROMs games. Safe to assume that will continue in the future.
Almost every scene in it was a retread of somewhere in Dark Souls...
From a tiny clip, its is nearly impossible to get a fully understanding of the plot and setting. We know it is Dark Souls 2 but apart from that, we know pretty much nothing! At least wait till some gameplay footage.
Assuming 'that guy' is me. Read the section in the Edge article where it states who made the decision to move Miyazaki from his directorial position.
That's why i said that after reading the actual issue i'm less worried.
I also understand and share (some of) those fears though, and that's where i was going with that.
Especially in light of the modern trend of always aiming at the mass market with safer, homogenized products.
No, not in any shape, way or form. This is developed by the same company, and I'm sure many of the same people are involved. Just not the director. FWIW though I'd be really interested to see what Sony would do with a hypothetical "Demon's Souls 2".
Basically, as I said before, I think people greatly overestimate the impact of individuals. It's a romantic notion, but not -- in my opinion -- a very applicable one.
I think it depends on the individual and the production management of the developer in question. Romantic notion or not, it is clear that in certain cases, the director has a huge influence over every aspect of a game.
I would say Kojima and Matsuno are good examples, because they are directors who are also responsible for putting all the staff in the game together, writing the script, planning the overall scenario, designing the game mechanics, and supervising how everything comes together. When other people in the same company take on MGS or Ogre Battle or FFT, the difference in quality and tone becomes immediately apparently.
Not that I'm saying this is the case with Souls, since honestly, we won't know until the sequel is out.
The main thing about the trailer that didn't feel "Souls" to me was the music, with its hints of electric guitar and stuff. The instrumentation is very different from anything in the soundtracks for Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. I hope that's not a larger trend.
All the visual content was absolutely in line with the series to date, though.
I have some small concerns, but so far I agree with Durante. There's a full team of people working under the directors who have been involved with both of the previous games, and there's enough of a body of work there that the identity of the franchise is clear enough. As long as they don't do anything really stupid (and so far, they haven't), it should be a worthy game.
All the visual content was absolutely in line with the series to date, though.
I have some small concerns, but so far I agree with Durante. There's a full team of people working under the directors who have been involved with both of the previous games, and there's enough of a body of work there that the identity of the franchise is clear enough. As long as they don't do anything really stupid (and so far, they haven't), it should be a worthy game.
Fully agree. I guess we all just wait it out and see what happens. Really excited to see the first gameplay footage.
H_Prestige
Banned
Doubt it. The new directors want to limit player freedom early on.
So instead of being able to go to new londo or the catacombs, these guys would have forced you to go straight to the burg.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Tylahedras
Banned
Nice breakdown of the Edge info and general examination from EpicNameBro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB0LXzDfLKs
Basically sums up my feelings, ignore if someone already posted it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB0LXzDfLKs
Basically sums up my feelings, ignore if someone already posted it.
The number of people working on something doesn't really matter all that much. We aren't a hive mind. At the core of anything it's a large number of people bringing to life the vision of a single person or a very small group of people. Movies have more people working on them than games, many more in most cases, yet you certainly wouldn't call somebody expressing an opinion of anticipated satisfaction or dissatisfaction based on a director or even a single actor as a misguided member of some sort of 'personality cult' now would you?
If I tell you Guillermo del Toro is directing a film, you know what you're going to get.
If I tell you Peter Molyneux is designing a game, you know what you're going to get.
Miyazaki may not be as established as the above but he's directed two of the Armored Core games, Dark Souls and Demon Souls. Even over that fairly small sample it's pretty clear what sort of game you're going to get when he's in charge. For players that want that, it's a bit of a disappointment to see him being removed from the Dark Souls IP.
You don't need to be good to get something like the Zweihander early, nor for the firekeeper soul in new londo ruins, I had a friend ruin his starting experience as he was afraid it would be too hard and looked up items to get early, even at the very start on his first playthrough he managed to get those. I told him to play the rest as blind as he can and mostly took my advice.
Manmademan
Member
eh? dark souls limited player freedom early on (remember the asylum?) and so did demons souls. the other archstones didn't open until you finished 1-1 and took out the phalanx. I don't recall anyone complaining.
Yep. Even if it's a more extended version of that, it's a fair compromise to increase accessibility for new players than return to the full dark souls experience after it. This is much better than adding an easy mode or dumbing down the entire game. That stuff with going to the catacombs or new londo is mostly stuff you do after the first run, and can be incredibly irritating to new players trying to find the way to go. I've had friends who are pretty good gamers get frustrated after they thought it was too hard because they went the wrong way at the start. It's not something I put so much necessity into having.
H_Prestige
Banned
Err, no. Asylum is just the short little tutorial section (which makes me wonder why people keep asking for a tutorial, when the game already fucking has one). The actual game starts at Firelink, and from there there's a ton of different options.
Actually, in this case no one will really know what they're going to get! (Maybe that was your point!)
He says it better than I ever could. Don't think this is going to be anywhere close to the original two games but it might be alright for one playthrough.
1994 - 2012
Not a single person at From Software knows what a Souls game requires.
Jesus, some of you are ridiculous. You realize that Miyazaki entered From Software some time after Shadow Tower, which was already a take on King's Field?
Like, you completely understand that he was working with an already established framework for a game that From Software has been using since 1994?
Is that beyond you, or are you simply so deep in establish him as an auteur when the case points to the opposite?
Dude brought some good ideas to the interpretation of From Software's developing action series. fucking freak out some more over a cg trailer and videogame journalism (note: big thread about how videogame journalism blows on this very forum)
Not a single person at From Software knows what a Souls game requires.
Jesus, some of you are ridiculous. You realize that Miyazaki entered From Software some time after Shadow Tower, which was already a take on King's Field?
Like, you completely understand that he was working with an already established framework for a game that From Software has been using since 1994?
Is that beyond you, or are you simply so deep in establish him as an auteur when the case points to the opposite?
Dude brought some good ideas to the interpretation of From Software's developing action series. fucking freak out some more over a cg trailer and videogame journalism (note: big thread about how videogame journalism blows on this very forum)
Er-So you didn't find the back up Pyromancy witch near the boss in Blighttown's swamp?
"Needing more accessibility," indeed...
She doesn't show up for me sometimes, I've done like 9 or 10 runs, and once in a while, right after queelag, or even if I come back later, the witch just isn't there..
Also, I can't find much info on King's Field or Miyazaki's previous works, did he actually work on King's Field? A bunch of the stuff epicnamebro says in that posted video that he fears is happening in the Souls series, while he talks about his god Miyazaki totally happened in those games. Like having a distinct lead character.
Jake Tower
Banned
The other 'danger' in new players getting lost at the beginning is the undeserved reputation of Dark Souls being brutally hard. A player who mistakenly goes the wrong direction and runs into the skeletons or ghosts and is murdered can think, damn, this game is stupid hard just like I heard, forget this.
I'm all for slightly more 'hand holding' at the beginning to mitigate this undeserved reputation and give more players motivation to try the series.
Yes, this propagation is the problem. If it was just any new game, and people walked into the graveyard and got killed by skeletons, they would think 'Okay, I totally went the wrong way', but when everyone tells you "HOLY SHIT, DARK SOULS IS SO HARD", you are far more likely to assume an encounter is as hard as it's supposed to be and think you just can't do it and give up.
That happened to me with King's Field IV, I always heard they were much tougher than Demon's/Dark Souls and when I first played it and saw it took like 10 hits to kill an enemy while I died in like 2, I thought, okay, what the hell? But then when I put in effort into it, found some actual weapons and such, it wasn't so bad.
Not to mention, if this hand holding at the start allows more players to keep going, and the rest of the game is up to par like they say, then you have a larger audience who stuck around and knows the game well, in the future they may not need something like that.
Also, he doesnt agro if you accidentally hit him through the barrels, i just recently watch a friend do like 300 dmg to him on accident but the pyromancer was cool with that.
But hypothetically lets say he was agro, opting to kill him was the real mistake, as you can right your mistakes and make ncps un-agro toward you.
And missing out on a pyromancy flame the first playthrough is far from game breaking.
And if you reeaaaally wanted it, you could get one from either the method above or from Eingyi after queelag.
H_Prestige
Banned
Does From Software own Dark Souls? It seems like Namco is calling all the shots here.
Isn't that a perfect example of my position, not yours? After Populous I expected very different things from him than I got!
On the other hand, I'm sure if Dark Souls 2 does something nigh-on identical in the beginning of the game, there will be people screaming for Namco's blood because they "messed with" the series.
This is also a good point.
The problem isn't really understanding what a Souls game requires. That's not hard. The problem is that the people at Namco are specifically talking about changing what a Dark Souls game is.
The game is being funded by Namco so they pretty much get to call the shots.
From own the IP I think(since it was published by From only in Japan)
but I guess -just a theory- that Namco paid fully for Dark Souls 2 project so they have some sort of control over it this time (going with an expensive Blur Studio trailer is one thing I doubt From will go for or bother with and I think Namco wanted it to get more attention to the game this time)
jim-jam bongs
Member
dark souls threads make me feel like a highly evolved super gamer. some of you guys seem to wear your perpetual place on the short bus like it's a badge of honour.
Yeah they should do a well put together prologue/tutorial and make it (eventually) skippable.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Good first post filled with info. Unfortunately yeah dont have high hopes for this. Id prefer functionality over actually nicer graphics.
Sounds like game design is going out the window too since FNG wants to make it more action based...
Sounds like game design is going out the window too since FNG wants to make it more action based...
Press R1 to strike, L1 to defend is not a tutorial, people can figure that out on their own.
They SHOULD explain the game mechanics so that people don't have to look at strategy guides or wiki for key game features which are NEVER explained in the game.
Speaking of which, this reminds me of the terrible job they did with explaining (or not explaining at all) World Tendencies in Demon's Souls.
What proof do you have? Terrible PR that had to be done through a translator and then spruced up with videogame journalism. There is nothing that they've said that you should or could get worked up over because the details are so small.
Oh wow, they're going to make it more accessible! Are they cleaning the UI up? We may never know.
Proof? They specifically said they want to take the game in a different direction, and that's the reason they didn't have the creator in charge this time. Whether it works out or not is something I'm looking forward to finding out.
The making it accessible part doesn't worry me at all, actually. As long as that means being better at teaching people what the game is, rather than changing what it is. For example, just today I had the displeasure of listening to a podcast that mistakenly compares Dark Souls to games like Trials or SMB in terms of difficulty/trial&error.
What concerns me more is the different approach to action and world presentation that were hinted in the article.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
Is the magazine out on shelves somewhere?
Might aswell close the thread then.
We're discussing speculations and ideas based on a preview, both sides have the same level of probability in being right or wrong.
I agree it's silly to start panicking as of now, but it's not to be wary, because those quotes can easily be read as something unlikable.
EatinOlives
Member
I don't think removing ideas is anybody's definition of "developing" them.