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[Metalmurphy]

Who knew about the deep insights of quantum physics without having to look it up?

This argument on "things should be spelled out completely, without me the player needing to do any real work" is lazy and no game design should be put in place to placate these people. There's a big kiddie pool of games that appeal to that level of intellect, go play those, why should every game be obligated to play by these single digit rules?

I mean hell, throughout the Wii generation (and somewhat GC) Nintendo stuck their heads in that trough and we haven't been able to pull them out since.

Why are you comparing a video game to quantum physics?



I'm sorry but something as dumb as having to logout of the game to log back in to access content just isn't normal. There is absolutely nothing logical about it and no way of knowing that you need to do it.

I loved Demon and Dark, but yes, somethings do need improving.

 

[Tex117]

I, of course, am buying Dark Souls 2. No, I am not near as hyped about it as I was for Dark Souls 1. This is mainly due to Miyazaki not being involved. A bigger team. Directors known for "action" games. That said, will play, and it will probably be good...just not as truly innovative and mind blowing as the first two.

Miyazaki is working full time on directing a new game. He will not disclose if it is a new IP or a sequel to something else.

Im more hpyed for this statement, and I don't even know what it is!

 

[Durante]

The only thing that really annoys me about this fabricated backlash is that, when the game comes out and if it is as good or better than Dark Souls, there will be tons of people who pick at small flaws to scream "this wouldn't have happened with Miyazaki!". Insignificant flaws that they happily overlook in Dark Souls or Demon's Souls (both certainly not flawless by any stretch of the imagination).

 

[Technosteve]

The only thing that really annoys me about this fabricated backlash is that, when the game comes out and if it is as good or better than Dark Souls, there will be tons of people who pick at small flaws to scream "this wouldn't have happened with Miyazaki!". Insignificant flaws that they happily overlook in Dark Souls or Demon's Souls (both certainly not flawless by any stretch of the imagination).

nah i'll be too busy checking neogaf and my guide book to beat the game to complain. Unless it's too easy.

 

[Tex117]

The only thing that really annoys me about this fabricated backlash is that, when the game comes out and if it is as good or better than Dark Souls, there will be tons of people who pick at small flaws to scream "this wouldn't have happened with Miyazaki!". Insignificant flaws that they happily overlook in Dark Souls or Demon's Souls (both certainly not flawless by any stretch of the imagination).

Dude, its not fabricated backlash.

There is no denying that Miyazaki was instrumental in the design of Demon's and Dark Souls. Hell, they basicallty lied to Sony to get it made.

He had a vision for the games. A vision that was not going to be compromised.

Now that we have two directors known for more "Action" titles, saying things that they will make the game more "acessable" and less "subtle', then you bet there are going to be some fervent fans of the Souls games that cry out in backlash.

The Souls games were an oasis of complexity, subtley and challenge on a console. The game goes against almost every modern game design this generation and maybe even the last 3 generations.

It was unique it what it offered.

So when people say change, change almost always means easier (easier across all facets), and this takes away what made it truly awesome to begin with.

 

[jimi_dini]

I'm sorry but something as dumb as having to logout of the game to log back in to access content just isn't normal.

Snuggly is shy.

Leaving the asylum and coming back works just fine. Quitting/Loading the game is just another (read: faster) way to do it.

dark souls is one of the most perfect games ever made. no hyperbole.

.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I don't really get why people want to play Dark Souls, but then want to take away half of what makes Dark Souls what it is, so in the end they end up with just another hack and slash game.

They want in on the hype and feel they're missing out on what the cool kids are playing because they could get past the scary skeletons at Firelink!

 

[zkylon]

Half is really reaching here. Most of the complaints boil down to, "keep the difficulty, explain shit a little better."

Which is hardly an unreasonable request. Great as it was, Dark Souls wasn't perfect.

The complete lack of hand-holding and figuring things out on your own is one half (and probably my favorite) of the Dark Souls experience. The difficulty compliments this, but if you take that first half it really isn't the same. I also think that barred some issues (Lost Izalith being shit, GFWL, etc.), Dark Souls is as close as perfect as it gets, specially in its design and how it balances difficulty and mystery and makes it exciting to explore, not only dungeons, but also mechanics and lore. And exploring any of these things is not actually that difficult, it just requires patience and awareness, just like bosses and dungeons do. It's perceived difficulty, probably based on what gaming has taught us to do, to rely on tutorials and only pay attention when a huge popup pauses the game, and to go all in guns blazing, because the checkpoint's just around the corner, or that the developers wouldn't allow you to "waste" 10 minutes of your time.

My problem is that Dark Souls is already pretty easy to "decipher", way easier than Demon's, in part because they refined some of the mechanics and took out the ones that weren't so good (I liked the World Tendency thing, but it really was kind of weird). It's up to FROM to manage to outdo themselves, but more money usually doesn't translate into ambition and forward-thinking.

We'll see.

 

[TheMink]

this is what publishers want you to think.

dark souls is one of the most perfect games ever made. no hyperbole.

I agree with this statement.

 

[Persona86]

Fuck these new directors.

Wow people can't even give anything a chance before going all super negative and emotional.

 

[Diomedes]

Welp tempering my excitement and keeping my hopes realistic until this comes out and can see for myself. Just hope that Namco's direction for a bigger audience doesn't dilute the experience.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

This better be a joke.

CRAWLING IN YOU SKIN

THESE WOUNDS THEY WILL DEFEATED

 

[Metalmurphy]

Snuggly is shy.

Leaving the asylum and coming back works just fine. Quitting/Loading the game is just another (read: faster) way to do it.

I was talking about the Gollem after defeating the Hydra.

 

[Durante]

Wow people can't even give anything a chance before going all super negative and emotional.

That's basically my main issue with this thread.

That, and judging a game by who makes it. Games should be judged on their own merit, not by their creators or their development process. This is bad enough when people disregard games because of the company that made them, but doing so because of individuals is even worse.

 

[Castor Krieg]

I don't post that often here at GAF, but come on. Seems like there is more unhappy gamers here than happy.

You mean on Internet forums? Those people are maybe 1% of total gaming population, vast majority never browses IGN or GAF. Those are the people Namco wants to get to buy DSII. Expect shitty cover as well.

 

[John Rabbit]

I was talking about the Gollem after defeating the Hydra.

how dare a game give you incentive to explore areas you thought had been completed.

 

[Orayn]

this is what publishers want you to think.

dark souls is one of the most perfect games ever made. no hyperbole.

Dark Souls being one of the BEST, most engrossing, most fulfilling games ever made when taken as a whole is something I agree with. But perfect? The messy launch, performance issues, poor multiplayer connectivity, flagging final 25% of the game, and oversights in PvP balance and character building are too glaring for me to consider Dark Souls among the most perfect games.

People seem to be ignoring DaS's faults now that a sequel is on the way and it's not planned to be a carbon copy.

 

[Castor Krieg]

That's basically my main issue with this thread.

That, and judging a game by who makes it. Games should be judged on their own merit, not by their creators or their development process. This is bad enough when people disregard games because of the company that made them, but doing so because of individuals is even worse.

Dude, just read the interview. "I wanted to make DSII, they wouldn't let me". Why would you willingly boot the creator of the franchise if not to make radical changes in the formula? Souls series was special precisely because it was unlike any other game out there. Why change that?

 

[Metalmurphy]

how dare a game give you incentive to explore areas you thought had been completed.

Except I did explore, but forgive me for not knowing I had to reload after being at the location, cause you know, thats fucking retarded.

 

[ShogunX]

Wow people can't even give anything a chance before going all super negative and emotional.

Why bother waiting for the game and judging it by yourself when you can bitch and moan about how shitty it's going to be on slither of information?

 

[John Rabbit]

Except I did explore, but forgive me for not knowing I had to reload after being at the location, cause you know, thats fucking retarded.

it's reasonable to assume that most people aren't playing the game in one long unending session. i.e. - at some point you've turned the system off and returned to the game.

 

[Metalmurphy]

it's reasonable to assume that most people aren't playing the game in one long unending session. i.e. - at some point you've turned the system off and returned to the game.

And what reason do they have to go back to an area they've already been and that had absolutely nothing?


They don't, and that's why its not reasonable

 

[Orayn]

Dude, just read the interview. "I wanted to make DSII, they wouldn't let me". Why would you willingly boot the creator of the franchise if not to make radical changes in the formula? Souls series was special precisely because it was unlike any other game out there. Why change that?

Demon's Souls was a deviation from the formula of King's Field and lacked that game's creator. Dark Souls was a deviation from the formula of Demon's and had a pretty different development team.

 

[zkylon]

That's basically my main issue with this thread.

That, and judging a game by who makes it. Games should be judged on their own merit, not by their creators or their development process. This is bad enough when people disregard games because of the company that made them, but doing so because of individuals is even worse.

I think many people are overreacting but if you want to judge a game by its own merits you basically can't have any discussion pre-launch.

The reality is that outside of the Dark Souls name and a kickass trailer, most of the information we have so far is negative, at least for existing Souls fans.

Unfortunately the Souls games are of a subtle genius that you can't get simply from one translated interview, but it's what we have right now, and them tossing already the idea of going more direct, less subtle, does give kind of foreboding feelings.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Except I did explore, but forgive me for not knowing I had to reload after being at the location, cause you know, thats fucking retarded.

As someone with around 500 hours in Demon/Dark Souls, that is retarded, and impossible to defend. Trading with snuggly and having to quit out of the game to find your new item is insane.

There are a TON of things that can be done to dark souls to make it more accessible without harming the experience at all.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Demon's Souls was a deviation from the formula of King's Field and lacked that game's creator. Dark Souls was a deviation from the formula of Demon's and had a pretty different development team.

They axed World Tendency and that's it. It was pretty much Demons Souls 2.

 

[Orayn]

They axed World Tendency and that's it. It was pretty much Demons Souls 2.

And removed the human/soul system. And they reworked multiplayer. And they added the covenant system. And they changed the stats. And they overhauled magic. And they elaborated on the combat mechanics. And they had completely different world design.

 

[TheMink]

And removed the human/soul system. And they reworked multiplayer. And they added the covenant system. And they changed the stats. And they overhauled magic. And they elaborated on the combat mechanics. And they had completely different world design.

Yeah, it was considerably large step. And all for the good imo.

As someone with around 500 hours in Demon/Dark Souls, that is retarded, and impossible to defend. Trading with snuggly and having to quit out of the game to find your new item is insane.

There are a TON of things that can be done to dark souls to make it more accessible without harming the experience at all.

Trading with snuggly is kinda a bad example. I always liked that concept.

I think the more prudent irritation is killing kirk or leeroy and having to reload to find their equipment.

But, it barely even fazed me tbh.

 

[140.85]

seriously though, how terrible at playing video games are some of you people?

"covenants are poorly explained". you speak to the npc at firelink like three times and he asks you to join his covenant so he'll sell you miracles. you just learned that covenants exist, they are usually entered by speaking with an npc and there are covenant specific rewards and benefits. oh and the dialogue says something about abandoning any other covenants you've entered so you even learn that there must be more, and that joining on isn't permanent.

"kindling/hollowing/humanity is poorly explained". a message tells you that you can level up and kindle at bonfires the instant you reach firelink. anyone with the slightest bit of common-sense goes to the bonfire then tries to "kindle", is told they can't kindle while hollow. so they select "reverse hollowing", and are told they have no humanity. then they go to their inventory and use the humanity they got for killing the first boss, sit down again and try to kindle at which point they will be told they can't kindle that flame further without learning how.

what do you know? you just learned what humanity does, what hollowing is and what kindling does, and it took all of 30 seconds and the deductive reasoning of a three year old.

"but it's all trial and error!" well aside from the fact that's bullshit, who gives a fuck if there are places in the game which require a bit of experimentation? it's a video game for crying out loud, if you make a mistake it's not the end of the world. sure dark souls might mess up your unbroken streak of 100% completion runs but if that's why you're playing games then might I recommend stamp collecting instead?

"but but world tendencies!" even from software realised that they'd done a poor job of explaining that and removed it from dark souls. why you people keep bringing it up when it's actually an example of correctly identifying and removing an obscure gameplay mechanic is beyond me, but if you think it supports your argument then it indirectly explains why you had such a hard time following dark souls.

I'm still waiting for someone to actually identify anything you need to reach and defeat the last boss which you can't learn easily without going outside the game.

I like you.

 

[Waldo Lydecker]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/383833/dark-souls-2-detailed-vehicles-next-gen-visuals-and-more/

Oh Lord, what's that with this vehicles bullshit?

 

[Karamsoul]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/383833/dark-souls-2-detailed-vehicles-next-gen-visuals-and-more/

Oh Lord, what's that with this vehicles bullshit?

Oh God please no...

 

[Karamsoul]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/383833/dark-souls-2-detailed-vehicles-next-gen-visuals-and-more/

Oh Lord, what's that with this vehicles bullshit?

I'm calling it. Dark Souls 2 will come out, and will be a mediocre success due to the "accessibility" options and game play added. However, it will be a critical failure per reviewers and the Dark series fans.

Miyazaki will step in and announce the creation of Dragon Souls a year after Dark Souls 2 release, and will take the Souls series back to its hardcore roots.

Everyone rejoice: we will have our series back in about 3 years or so. :/

 

[zkylon]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/383833/dark-souls-2-detailed-vehicles-next-gen-visuals-and-more/

Oh Lord, what's that with this vehicles bullshit?

I really just think that's Edge/copypasters being dumb and jumping to conclusions. Shibuya makes it sound like they're considering the existence of vehicles in the game, but either as fast travel rather than something you can actually drive, or something for enemies to ride, instead of you.

From reading the article I would be very surprised if you ended up driving a chariot yourself.

 

[Jarsonot]

Thinking through the tutorial level they really tell/force-you-to-discover the important things.

Obviously there were signs on the ground that tell you what the buttons do. And that killing people will give you souls. You fight a ginormous demon and get slaughtered (in this game you will encounter things you are not ready for yet) You have to be able to climb a ladder. (There will be ladders) you face an archer and get nailed by some arrows. What the hell!? Oh, a shield. In this game the shield is so important it's the first thing you get.

Then you get your weapon, holy balls I can kill people faster! Having a better weapon helps out immensely! Oh, and they don't tell you how to equip it. You have to figure that out before you leave the tutorial level.

There's more. Some doors are locked - you'll need keys in this game. There will be traps in this game. Secrets may open up (boulder trap breaks the wall), you can use the Estus to heal, you may see items you can't get yet, there will be "friendly" NPCs, shortcuts can be found, etc.

"Levels" will "end" with a boss. You restart at the bonfire. Enemies can drop items.

And apart from the obvious stuff, one may glean that equipment is more important than level. (You don't level up at all, but shit's sure easier with the weapon and shield) I sure learned to respect that even the little cranky basic enemies can kill you, and that the dude with the better armor and weapon deserves more respect.

I think a person comes out of the tutorial knowing how to change equipment, knowing to appreciate how easy it is to die, and understanding keys, exploration, finding items, getting to the boss, etc.

I really appreciate that they "teach" you the game by making you do it, and without a little fairy helper stopping you every 30 seconds with another helpful tidbit. Maybe that's another thing they teach you - you're on your own, here, pal. Good luck.

 

[Nirolak]

I really just think that's Edge/copypasters being dumb and jumping to conclusions. Shibuya makes it sound like they're considering the existence of vehicles in the game, but either as fast travel rather than something you can actually drive, or something for enemies to ride, instead of you.

From reading the article I would be very surprised if you ended up driving a chariot yourself.

The player controlled boats thing is definitely in the article.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/383833/dark-souls-2-detailed-vehicles-next-gen-visuals-and-more/

Oh Lord, what's that with this vehicles bullshit?

It isn't a caaaar.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Sounds like they may be going with "level gimmicks" in this rather than masterful level design. God I really hope this all just bad mouth-noise and the game itself is fucking fine, but these two new chatty clowns seem a little too eager to put their unique, possibly shit, stamp on the franchise.

 

[Conciliator]

I'm extremely skeptical at this point. It's starting to feel like this is headed towards being an entirely fine game, but a game that's a bit less like Dark Souls and a bit more like everything else. Which is a shame. In any case, I'm still excited to play it and learn more about it in the interim.

 

[zkylon]

The player controlled boats thing is definitely in the article.

Shibuya, verbatim (lemme know if I should take this down): "Being on a ship or boat is definitely something we are considering but being able to control one is not in the works."

When they talk about chariots, the topic comes up after seeing concept art from one of the enemies who will in fact ride a chariot (the guy that chases you if you do bad deeds, ala Darkmoon Covenant). Edge then goes about how not having vehicles reinforced the feeling of vulnerability (lol wtf??) and then we get a quote of Shibuya saying he wants to try new stuff up.

Really, from the article, the vehicles part sounds all made up by Edge because the writer apparently doesn't feel safe on foot or something...

 

[Midou]

I'm calling it. Dark Souls 2 will come out, and will be a mediocre success due to the "accessibility" options and game play added. However, it will be a critical failure per reviewers and the Dark series fans.

Miyazaki will step in and announce the creation of Dragon Souls a year after Dark Souls 2 release, and will take the Souls series back to its hardcore roots.

Everyone rejoice: we will have our series back in about 3 years or so. :/

Jumping to conclusions level: Neogaf.

 

[TheMink]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/383833/dark-souls-2-detailed-vehicles-next-gen-visuals-and-more/

Oh Lord, what's that with this vehicles bullshit?

Definition:

A thing used for transporting people or goods, esp. on land, such as a car, truck, or cart.

Could be anything folks.

 

[astroturfing]

I'm calling it. Dark Souls 2 will come out, and will be a mediocre success due to the "accessibility" options and game play added. However, it will be a critical failure per reviewers and the Dark series fans.

Miyazaki will step in and announce the creation of Dragon Souls a year after Dark Souls 2 release, and will take the Souls series back to its hardcore roots.

Everyone rejoice: we will have our series back in about 3 years or so. :/

i can so easily see this playing out :/ depressing.

 

[Nirolak]

Shibuya, verbatim (lemme know if I should take this down): "Being on a ship or boat is definitely something we are considering but being able to control one is not in the works."

Let me look in the scans again, but that's not what I saw.

I could be hallucinating.

Edit:

Okay the blurrier versions made that look like "now".

 

[SerRodrik]

Yeah, I'm not writing the game off entirely, it's obviously still super early and we know very little, but nothing I'm hearing from them is filling me with confidence right now. Definitely putting this one on my wait and see list.

 

[jimi_dini]

I was talking about the Gollem after defeating the Hydra.

You don't have to quit the game. Go somewhere else. Come back. Voila Golem is there.

Wikis tell you to quit/reload, because that's faster. But it's not required.

 

[zkylon]

Yeah, I'm not writing the game off entirely, it's obviously still super early and we know very little, but nothing I'm hearing from them is filling me with confidence right now. Definitely putting this one on my wait and see list.

Yeah, this is where I stand. It's a Souls game so it's hard not to be excited, but my enthusiasm has been definitely been tamed by that Edge article, since basically everything except being a Souls game sounds pretty bad.

Let me look in the scans again, but that's not what I saw.

I could be hallucinating.

Edit:

Okay the blurrier versions made that look like "now".

Heh, shouldn't you be buying the magazine or something

 

[Emitan]

Who knew about the deep insights of quantum physics without having to look it up?

Souls fans are strange.

 

[TheMink]

I'm calling it. Dark Souls 2 will come out, and will be a mediocre success due to the "accessibility" options and game play added. However, it will be a critical failure per reviewers and the Dark series fans.

Miyazaki will step in and announce the creation of Dragon Souls a year after Dark Souls 2 release, and will take the Souls series back to its hardcore roots.

Everyone rejoice: we will have our series back in about 3 years or so. :/

CALM DOWN!!!

 

[Guevara]

It's almost a shame the quit/reload thing works because what the game is trying to do is reward you for revisiting areas later in the story.

It's an incentive to explore old places for new things.

 

[rvy]

Why isn't CVG banned yet? Doritosgate pretty much showed how incompetent they are.

Anyway, reading some of this stuff is worrying. Not sure if removing Miyazaki from development is going to achieve what NamcoBandai hopes to.
They want more sales, which is perfectly fine since this is a business, but I don't see how trying to reach a market with no interest in Souls games and pissing off the fanbase who made these games a success makes any sense.

Shibuya has two Monster Hunter games under his belt, according to MG. So, that's nice.

"more straightforward and more understandable"

Does this make sense in a Souls game? Isn't the point of the games that you need to figure out shit on your own and by failing over and over again? Isn't that what makes the games great for the fans? Spoon-feeding shit to your players is a radical departure from that.