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Dark Souls II (PS3/360/PC) - Edge Magazine details (Prepare yourself)
- Thread starter duckroll
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Are those any good?
I've already accepted what'll happen. It seems that Namco thinks that the success on Dark Souls was because of it's setting, and that it's gameplay was a detriment to any further success. We'll get a weirdly atypical action rpg with a "it doesn't seem right" aesthetic. I'd be interested on it's reception.
It might not sell well, and Namco will see it as "The gameplay is still too alienating!" Try again, fail, and then retire the series.
It might sell decently, and Namco will Sonic the Hedgehog the franchise to death.
It might not sell well, and Namco will see it as "The gameplay is still too alienating!" Try again, fail, and then retire the series.
It might sell decently, and Namco will Sonic the Hedgehog the franchise to death.
Tarin02543
Member
Wtf, vehicles. Please, don't jinx my hype!
RockTurtle
Member
i was chicken-little during the elections in the poligaf thread.
but since Obama won, i have been searching for a new source of impatience and unneeded stress!
GLAD I FOUND THIS THREAD!
EDIT: hey guys, i just thought of something....
Namco-Bandai. Ace Combat 6. 20+ pieces of DLC.
day 1 DLC or special dlc weapons/armor/cosmetics possible.
but since Obama won, i have been searching for a new source of impatience and unneeded stress!
GLAD I FOUND THIS THREAD!
EDIT: hey guys, i just thought of something....
Namco-Bandai. Ace Combat 6. 20+ pieces of DLC.
day 1 DLC or special dlc weapons/armor/cosmetics possible.
Metalmurphy
Member
It's still the same isn't it? Why would you go back to a place you've already explored and saw nothing?
Its not a good mechanic. I always assumed that was a glitch.
Yeah this shit pissed me off. I had basically done everything required to access the DLC without knowing it, but noooo I had to look up the solution because the first time I visited that fucking cave the golem wasn't there.
Great way to ruin a neat little "quest".
jim-jam bongs
Member
eh, I found the dlc area by accident. if you're only going to a place once in dark souls yer doin' eet rong.
now I understand your argument better, I think I was missing something earlier. if I understand correctly you are simply arguing for more information, not necessarily changing the way in which its disseminated, and I'd definitely be interested in that. the lore and storytelling in souls is amazing, more is better.
it's not the best example, but I do think that dark souls does a good job of creating internal logical consistency. it's usually easy to guess which enemies drop humanity for example, the boss sitting in lava is immune to fire, while o&s who use lightning attacks are highly resistant to lightning. they could improve it with more detail though, covenants like the blade of the darkmoon could definitely do with a little more logic around finding them.
now I understand your argument better, I think I was missing something earlier. if I understand correctly you are simply arguing for more information, not necessarily changing the way in which its disseminated, and I'd definitely be interested in that. the lore and storytelling in souls is amazing, more is better.
it's not the best example, but I do think that dark souls does a good job of creating internal logical consistency. it's usually easy to guess which enemies drop humanity for example, the boss sitting in lava is immune to fire, while o&s who use lightning attacks are highly resistant to lightning. they could improve it with more detail though, covenants like the blade of the darkmoon could definitely do with a little more logic around finding them.
Have you actually played Dark Souls? If you really visited every area only once then you are doing it wrong. I don't even think that doing so is actually possible on the first playthrough.
What happened the first time I beat the hydra? I was really happy that I finally beat it, went back to spend my souls. And THEN I continued exploring there. Voila found the golem even without any handholding/save-reload/guide.
If it would be spawned immediately, people would complain that they beat the hydra and then got slaughtered by the golem. In any case, the golem is not required. The hydra isn't even required.
Metalmurphy
Member
In what world do you live where going back and forth, even though the cave was JUST THERE, is the right way to go?
That is the WRONG way to go, once you are in an area you investigate it completly, you don't go back and forth. That makes no sense at all. Specially since it's a minuscule area that leads to a dead end.
Also:
This is a joke right? Not only is the gollem WAY out of range after beating the Hydra, he is just a normal mob, no one will get slaughtered by it.
Sounds like you're just making the most ridiculous excuses you possibly can just to defend the game.
I too am with the feeling that dark souls can do no wrong, and that whats being debated is hardly a big deal in the over all scheme.
But its definitely a dumb mechanic. Its not like the golem needs requirements to be met in order for him to show up. No you just need to leave and come back (or quit and reenter the game) its just a waste of time. In life if you lost something, saw that it wasnt on the kitchen table, left for a bit and came back, would you expect it to be there?
To be fair the golem isnt a great example, as a living being can do whatever it wants and whether or not it wants to be at that spot is up to it technically.
But items shouldnt need that. When you defeat kirk, he doesnt drop his armor, it just goes to a different spot, which doesnt bother me in and of itself, but going to the place its supposed to be seeing its not there and having to restart the game is just silly. It seems like a glitch, not design.
I see no point in defending it either. It doesnt all the sudden mean that dark souls is awful because of it
QueenOfThorns
Member
I just hope they don't make you play as a dude. The create a character was one of my favorite thing about Dark Souls. Making the game about a specific dude would be..a step back. But I'm just hoping they were talking about the default dude and that you can still create a character/pick gender/etc.
Some of the other bits in the article have me a bit worried, but the idea of playing as just one specific guy is what's got me.
More than anything though, it just doesnt seem to fit. The idea of playing as a dude just doesnt make much sense.
HungOverOnATues
Member
THIS. Having secrets is fine, but when it pertains to the multiplayer component of the game it only serves to hurt it when you have very specific conditions and do not relay that information at all. What's the point of having it there if nobody ends up using it? Granted, the information alone is not the only problem with that covenant, but it certainly doesn't help it. At the very least it would prevent people from running around for hours wasting covenant items and wondering why nothing was happening until you get fed up and start googling forum posts. And I have to imagine that there were a good number of people who stumbled across it, couldn't figure it out, and just gave up on it. Who benefits from that?
The fact that this was even a question:
is exactly the point that I was getting at. It would take very little to improve upon it and I think the potential positives outweigh the negatives (i.e. another line of text) in a situation like this. I just want the covenants to be worth using in DS2 and for others to actually use them as well and it seems that I'm not alone in that. But, you know, quantum physics and all that...
Ehhh just like Dragon Age, Mass Effect and Skyrim they use a main character but you can create your own when it gets to the game most probably.
QueenOfThorns
Member
Yeah, I mean I still think it's a rare chance that they'd actually change that, it's just all the "This is the main hero." stuff that's got me kinda nervous. Probably for nothing.
Funny thing is, I don't think this matters as much as people think. All the King's Field games have you being like 'the prince of nation x' but plays basically in the same way story wise.
I doubt they will fuck that up. Just fix the character creator so its easier to make a decent-good looking human. I dont wanna spend 1 hour doing a good looking character or something to fit my needs.
wild hair + far east traveler, man.
QueenOfThorns
Member
cave? The golem is in the water at a dead end to the left right in the sea. But you don't see that there is a dead end from the hydra's place. You have to go far in.
In my case I beat the hydra without the rusted iron ring (which should be the case for almost all players that aren't using a guide nor wiki) and having 5 flasks in total. Which means it's awfully slow to move in water. Which means beating the hydra and then investigating the whole lake would be a pretty stupid idea. It's exactly what new players aren't supposed and shouldn't do. New players would rather climb up the ladder (and then probably get killed by forest hunters).
I mean if you got a guide with a map, you would see that there is a dead end. Players without a guide wouldn't know at all. There could be another hydra or worse. And without the rusted iron ring, players move awfully slow in the water.
Like I said - you normally don't investigate the whole area at once. Especially after getting lots of souls. You spend them, then you investigate further. You may also refill the flasks.
I guess you are just such a superb player and played the game without using a guide nor wiki and beat the hydra first try. You probably already planned ahead of time and used some insane weapon and you also had 20 flasks at your disposal and had the rusted iron ring, so immediately investigating further was a great idea in your case. And in that case, yes, you would have a right to complain. For me, a not as good player that played that game right when it was released, it wasn't a problem, because I wasn't as good as you, so I played it safe and had no issues with the golem at all. Worse yet, even now on my 8th playthrough I'm finding new things.
If you have 5 flasks in total (normal first-time players will have 10 flasks at most at that time, if even that) and are totally unexperienced and also don't have the rusted iron ring - then they won't have an easy time. Not at all. The golem moves like the golems on land, so in that case the player would have a major disadvantage.
I just beat exactly that golem. Of course this is my 8th or so playthrough. I already got rite to kindle. I already got the lordvessel. I also got plenty of good weapons. I also got the rusted ring. And I also have plenty of experience. So I had no issues at all with the golem this time. First-time players won't have that advantage. And even I wouldn't fight the golem without the ring (I'm playing as low level, so blocking would work for the first hit and then I would be dead).
And I remember that I had quite a hard time on my first playthrough even with the regular golems outside the water. They took ages to kill, because my weapons weren't good. In my case that was because I went right to the hydra after ringing the first bell.
Metalmurphy
Member
It turns into a small cave near the end.
I beat it in NG+, because guess what I had no idea I had to make it magically appear the first time around, no ring, chaos blade +5, don't think I used a single flask. The gollem is easy as hell... and no I am not that good. Either way this is besides the point. It isn't about being cautious because you don't even see it the first time around. If had then you could CHOOSE to go back, or not. To me it wasn't even an option, it was a "there's nothing here, lets carry on" kind of thing. It makes no sense.
Yep. All normal first-time (!) non-guide/wiki players that beat the Hydra will have a Chaos Blade +5, which takes Chaos Flame Ember (which is in Demon Ruins and takes quite a lot health to get or Flash Sweat) and going to Vamos in the catacombs.
Surely you didn't have a problem with such a weapon. How many hits did it take? 1? or 2?
Wait, the Gravelord Servant covenant doesn't work unless you're in NG+? Are you serious? I spent HOURS trying to get it to work when the game came out and just gave up cause nothing happened no matter where/when I used it.
I welcome DSII's "changes" with open arms. I liked DeSo more anyway.
I welcome DSII's "changes" with open arms. I liked DeSo more anyway.
Metalmurphy
Member
I'll say again
"Either way this is besides the point. It isn't about being cautious because you don't even see it the first time around. If you did then you could CHOOSE to go back, or not. To me it wasn't even an option, it was a "there's nothing here, lets carry on" kind of thing. It makes no sense."
Nah. I rather do women actually. All the options are ugly.
I was reading the thread and came upon someone saying that, which if it isn't true, is a prime example of the kind of stuff DSII needs to clear up. I don't even know what Disasters looked like cause I never saw one in the entirety of my time playing DaSo/the Eye of Death NEVER worked when I tried to use it.
DeSo/DaSo don't have a forced linear tutorial section? At least the former gave you the option to skip it.
People are actually defending the Golem thing and trading? LOL
Those are definitely things that should be address. The Golem thing would be fine if some NPC gave a clue about it. Lots of things in the game would be fine that way.
I think it would be pretty cool if there was a somewhat hidden area you could uncover that were empty except for some subtle clue written in blood on a wall. At the time you would be thinking "What the fuck?" But eventually you come to a location and it just hits you. The games don't nearly have these kind of things. I imagine this is because they were really betting on the community really coming together.
Those are definitely things that should be address. The Golem thing would be fine if some NPC gave a clue about it. Lots of things in the game would be fine that way.
I think it would be pretty cool if there was a somewhat hidden area you could uncover that were empty except for some subtle clue written in blood on a wall. At the time you would be thinking "What the fuck?" But eventually you come to a location and it just hits you. The games don't nearly have these kind of things. I imagine this is because they were really betting on the community really coming together.
I feel like people defending that are just attacking the fact that something could possibly be wrong with this game.
Dark Souls might just be my favorite game of all time, or at least tied for first, and yet I'm here to say that is an idiotic requirement to meet. I've said this like 6 times now; it seems like a glitch. When i restarted my game for the first time and saw the golem show up i thought it was absolutely a glitch.
I actually don't mind snugly though, as i remember it from demons, and kings field if I'm not mistaken, other than it being completely inconvenient if you have multiple items you wish to trade. (Doing multiple of anything in dark souls is time consuming lol, like giving something to your covenant repeatedly hopefully another change)
Where is my DeS II From Software???
It's called Dark Souls.
HungOverOnATues
Member
You have to be human to use it and it only works in an area where you haven't beaten the boss. The disasters are additional black phantom versions of enemies that show up in the infected players worlds, but they don't spawn in NG. The eye of death is supposed to infect 3 other players worlds and they are supposed to invade you by interacting with your summon sign which is automatically laid down where you're standing every 10 seconds or so. It only infects those within co-op range, so in NG where the black phantoms don't spawn you could be infected without having any clue that you were until the summoner died and the message pops up informing you that the "disasters are gone after the defeat of the gravelord servant." Basically anyone that uses the eye of death in NG is going to have 0 effect on anyone elses game and as a result will not likely find anyone to try to invade them. See here for more.
I definitely agree that things like the Golden Golem could have been hinted at (even cryptically) by an NPC. That would have given some better indication to go back there. But like others have said, it's just one example of a "missed opportunity". A true secret that you share with your friends in the playground kind of thing.
I found the DLC content, and multiple illusory walls/hidden paths thanks to messages from other players. It feels great being part of that in-game community, and feels even better when you put a helpful message down yourself later on, in the hopes that it'll help someone less informed.
RockTurtle
Member
what's the latest chicken-little news?
I could have used another analogy that worked just as well, but it's what I'm studying at the moment. So it was momentarily relevant.
But it's just a example where if you want to come to terms with something, you need to be willing to put in the work and do the needed research. Nothing wrong with applying that idea to game design, it ain't exactly new. It just doesn't seem to jive with everyone, in which case I say, play something else.
But honestly the Golem thing was "intended" to be a event which a player discovered upon coming back, with a neat fast track for veterans or experimenters. Keeping it that way kept the hidden discovery for new players AND provided a back door for veterans, it was a win win. Conversely I think maybe a couple subtle hints to the event could have been hidden somewhere to clue you in, I missed it first time myself. But log outs aren't a problem, all they provided was a back door to speed things up without needing to re-zone.
Yes, people don't seem to realize the only reason Dark Souls isn't called Demon's Souls 2 is because of the Sony licence. It really makes no difference. King's Field goes 1 to 4 and they are all pretty different and unrelated from what I can tell.
"oasis of complexity" holy shit
TheBryanJZX90
Member
You have no curiosity. Haven't you played other video games? Don't you start to wonder why there's a big open area with nothing there? Don't you start to wonder, hm, why did the developer take the time to make this area? Maybe it's of some importance. There doesn't seem to be anything here now, but maybe that could change in the future.
That is a good point. However, the fact that there is no requirement to make it appear (Other than beating the hydra? Which obviously doesnt make it appear) makes it odd that something will appear there inexplicably just by exiting/reentering the game, i think it was obvious that something shoulda been there but its appear condition is stupid.
What is the "golem" thing?
Back behind the first hydra there was a golem that only appeared after leaving the area first, or entering and exiting the game.