Mr. Wonderful
Member
Ugh. I would pay Nintendo a couple of dollars to download DLC that allows for Dolby Digital/DTS playback. Too bad this is Nintendo, though, and that's not happening.
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Wii U - Surround Sound Guide and FAQ
- Thread starter CLEEK
- Start date
I've noticed a possible major mislead in the OP black images, the proclaimation of "no DD" "no DTS", makes it seem like it's inferior, it doesn't point out it's still LPCM lossless if its stereo, via Hdmi.
This DTS paranoia is just a result of AV mainstream market pr hype. Why would anyone want an inferior format.
I gladly sacrifice channels for quality as a workaround.
phosphor112
Banned
Compatibility maybe? This has nothing to do with inferior and superior. LPCM takes up a lot of space as well, most games compress their sounds anyway. Running them in LPCM is pointless most of the time.
I'd rather have more channels than an unnoticeable increase in quality (and let's not forget that video streaming services don't seem to offer multichannel-audio on the Wii U due to this limitation).
Backfoggen
Banned
That's like saying a portable audio player that only plays mono .wav files is better than an MP3 player.
Backfoggen
Banned
Everything should support everything imo. Have you seen the list of audio formats on PS3? It's ridiculous and it's good that it's all there.
That's still debatable even if i didn't thought about that extremes, because it depends on the situation.
For gaming maybe not but if you want to listen to some talk carefully. Etc.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Well I'm sure Netflix is really eager to start streaming uncompressed 5.1 audio compared to the already existing ATSC standard Dolby Digital format.
Sorry, that was kind of sarcastic.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
So why is it a problem for the streaming services? Not encoding it live for games is one thing, but would Nintendo really need to pay a licensing fee to transmit a pre-encoded signal from online to the receiver untouched?
Trevelyan9999
Banned
This has to be the biggest problem......Netflix limited to only stereo just sucks. I'm not sure if there is a patch to the Netflix app that could fix the sound to make it compatible to PCM but it should have been thought out better.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
I was actually curious about this too.
And it seems your are also being mislead. Just because the Wii U is only capable of outputting LPCM doesn't mean that it's actually lossless audio that is playing all the time. I mean yeah, your receiver gets lossless uncompressed audio. But not every game will have actual lossless audio. Games could for example use MP3/Vorbis/AAC assets, which means the audio that you will get is not really lossless. It's sent as uncompressed lossless sound to the receiver, but was compressed in a lossy format before that. There is just not enough space on the Wii U discs to save everything as lossless in every game. It would take up too much space. Even using a lossless compression would take up too much space for certain games.
Also - there is Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio. Both of those formats are lossless. They are just compressed lossless. Which is a good thing. Because you don't waste insanely huge amounts of space to save the audio. And the other positive thing is that both of those formats also contain a stream for backward compatibility as well. So not only do they use less space, but they also make it possible that people with optical in/coaxial in get surround sound. That's why those are used very often for BluRay. BluRay movies having LPCM on the disc are rare because of that.
You know what's get sent to the speakers in all cases? An uncompressed analog signal. But that doesn't make the sound automatically being of lossless quality.
You see, I could play a 96kbps MP3 file on my computer. And the computer would send the uncompressed data to my receiver. That's not the same as my computer playing an Audio-CD with actual lossless sound, although in both cases the receiver gets uncompressed LPCM data.
And in your case, I could send DTS 1509kbps to your receiver. Afterwards I could uncompress a 96kbps MP3 file and send the uncompressed stream to your receiver. Following your logic the 96kbps MP3 should be of better quality, because your receiver says it's receiving uncompressed lossless data. But actually it would be much inferior.
Youtube on Wii U for example also still uses AAC. You don't actually get lossless audio either, although your receiver says LPCM 5.1.
Yeah, video on demand on Wii U having stereo only is much better than lossy surround sound. It's all amazons fault. Amazon and their cheap servers not being able to stream lossless LPCM 5.1 sound. Oh and it's the customers fault as well. All those customers using shitty connections to the Internet. Everyone should at least use a T1 or T3 line.
plagiarize
Banned
I'm bumping this thread looking for a little guidance. I want to spend about $400 on a set of new 7.1 speakers and reciever that will support surround sound on the Wii U AND support the advanced formats that the PS3 and Blu-Rays feature.
I had previously been directed to this set:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0077V88ZE/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Onkyo HT-S5500 7.1-Channel Home Theater Speaker/Receiver Package
Those are now down in price to about $240 dollars. Is there something newer and better for my needs, or is that still the best buy in my <$450 dollars price range. Help me audiophile gaf. I need support for 3D, and I need 4 hdmi inputs minimum.
edit: apparently this has issues with the subwoofer regularly breaking.
I had previously been directed to this set:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0077V88ZE/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Onkyo HT-S5500 7.1-Channel Home Theater Speaker/Receiver Package
Those are now down in price to about $240 dollars. Is there something newer and better for my needs, or is that still the best buy in my <$450 dollars price range. Help me audiophile gaf. I need support for 3D, and I need 4 hdmi inputs minimum.
edit: apparently this has issues with the subwoofer regularly breaking.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Do you really need the 7.1? I'd recommend you try to buy the speakers and AVR separately, or at least try to find better brand speakers bundles with something. Speakers can last for decades if you get really nice ones so even ebay is a good option there. That said, the 240 price is pretty nice and you could always buy another subwoofer later.
I was just looking through amazon's lists and this caught my eye. http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-RM...dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
I haven't looked into the details but Polk have been making speakers for a long time. Onkyo has not. I am not sure where they get their speakers. Maybe they make them in-house or maybe they contract someone.
Another option is: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007R8U5RG/?tag=neogaf0e-20
It's more expensive, but you get name brand speakers. My Dad has some kind of compulsive purchasing disorder and has continuously upgraded his home theater and regular stereos and he always gets a high end Denon receiver coupled to Cambridge Soundworks speakers. I personally go for the options and price and make sure my unit is a name brand.
Holy crap the Onky system you linked to just went up to 350! Did they really increase the price precisely at 9AM PT or are they fucking with me? :S
A Wii, not a Wii U sound question, but this thread seemed as good as place as any to ask.
So I'm assembling essentially hand me down components into a system dedicated to playing Wii games, streaming Netflix (with the Wii), watching OTA broadcast, dvds, and vhs tapes, and had a couple questions.
The television is an RCA 32' SDTV - it has a built in digital tuner, so it gets OTA, but it does not have an optical out or a coaxial out - just a set of RCA outs. I'm also getting a
surround system in a box from my dad soon - unfortunately, I don't know anything about what it is, except that my brother and I bought it for him 2-4 years ago, so I know it's probably something low end. Fingers crossed it's a 5.1 system with a receiver, and not some of the glorified dvd players I've seen.
So I have a few questions. From what I've read, the Wii and OTA should give surround sound with Dolby Pro-Logic II. Will the receiver have Pro-Logic II written on it somewhere? For example, I've seen some things that just say Dolby Surround - how do you know it's PLII? For the tv, would it make sense to look into getting a dedicated digital converter box that has an optical out to get dolby digital? Last, is the Wii good to go? Is PLII surround an option on games, something that just happens, or case by case? Does the Netflix content stream in surround? Thanks guys - I'm a real newbie to this stuff, so forgive me if I've messed up some of the lingo.
So I'm assembling essentially hand me down components into a system dedicated to playing Wii games, streaming Netflix (with the Wii), watching OTA broadcast, dvds, and vhs tapes, and had a couple questions.
The television is an RCA 32' SDTV - it has a built in digital tuner, so it gets OTA, but it does not have an optical out or a coaxial out - just a set of RCA outs. I'm also getting a
surround system in a box from my dad soon - unfortunately, I don't know anything about what it is, except that my brother and I bought it for him 2-4 years ago, so I know it's probably something low end. Fingers crossed it's a 5.1 system with a receiver, and not some of the glorified dvd players I've seen.
So I have a few questions. From what I've read, the Wii and OTA should give surround sound with Dolby Pro-Logic II. Will the receiver have Pro-Logic II written on it somewhere? For example, I've seen some things that just say Dolby Surround - how do you know it's PLII? For the tv, would it make sense to look into getting a dedicated digital converter box that has an optical out to get dolby digital? Last, is the Wii good to go? Is PLII surround an option on games, something that just happens, or case by case? Does the Netflix content stream in surround? Thanks guys - I'm a real newbie to this stuff, so forgive me if I've messed up some of the lingo.
If it says Dolby Surround and nowhere Dolby Pro Logic II, then you will still get surround sound. Dolby Surround is similar to Dolby Pro Logic (DPLII improved on DPLI, which improved on Dolby Surround, the encoding is backward-compatible), which means you will get surround sound, but no encoded center speaker signal. I mean you will get center speaker output, but not the one that is specifically encoded. You may also get a bit lesser quality (I don't want to go that in depth, it shouldn't really matter to you).
And yes, receivers that support DPLII normally have DPLII written on them somewhere.
The Wii nor the Wii U support Dolby Digital. So you don't need optical in nor out in any case.
Case by case
Best game(s) to try it out: Star Wars Rogue Squadron II/III for Gamecube
no idea
NSMBU doesn't output surround (technically it does, but most channels stay silent), what you are experiencing is normal behaviour.
UltimateIke
Member
Yep. The rest of the channels are empty. Same with Nintendo Land.
I hope Nintendo gets back on-board with surround sound soon. They were so good about including ProLogic II on nearly all of their first-party GameCube and Wii games. Now they give us nothing.
It's an option to set in the Wii's main menu and certain games have an in-game option for ProLogic II. The back of the game box will tell you if the game supports ProLogic II.
No ... I think I will call LG. I did try the support online, but they told me to call the phone support.
I will try in the next couple of days and see ...
plagiarize
Banned
I ended up getting this Onkyo set http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004O0TREC/?tag=neogaf0e-20
one of the reasons I'm trying to budget so low on speakers/reciever is because we are getting the cables professionally run, and that's going to cost a pretty penny, but we'll have the option of upgrading speakers (and receiver) separately when we can afford to in the future. i'm not going to scrimp on the wire I get run, or the job I have done.
this slightly cheaper Onkyo set has none of the complaints about reliability (and has been out a bit longer too) and for the money sounds like great value according to all the reviews. obviously it isn't top drawer, and more expensive sets will surpass it, but since I'm budgeting for the system, the mounts, the cabling, etc, I just can't go any higher.
That's part of why I want to get 7.1 speakers installed. Get all the installation work done now, rather than doing building work twice.
Thank you for the advice though. The Onkyo seems to come up the best in my budget for what I am looking for, even if it's far from the best overall (or the best I could get for my money if I didn't care about 7.1, 4 hdmi inputs and 3D support). They'll be showing up next week. I'm having someone come in on Sunday to give me a quote for the installation work. It'll be nice to have everything properly cabled for once.
I was considering getting a new receiver for the Wii U, but in the end I guess I'm just not too picky. I'm actually pretty pleased with the audio stripped from my HDMI splitter -> Coaxial digital-in on my receiver. I can't really tell if I'm getting Stereo/PLII etc, because most of my games don't utilize the surround channels anyway. Yeah, I can tell it's not as crisp as DD5.1/DTS.. but I'll live with it for a little while. I guess the real reason is that my Wife probably wouldn't let me get a new receiver right now anyway lol.
RazzleDazzleRB
Member
Is there a way for me to use my Mixamp Pro with the Wii U without a receiver? What if I used component cables and take the audio from it to the Mixamp, will I get surround?
plagiarize
Banned
no. only one AV output is active. so either it does everything through HDMI or it does everything through the old school AV out.
as it clearly states in the OP: You will only get surround sound if you have your Wii U connected via HDMI to a receiver that supports LPCM 5.1 via HDMI.
RazzleDazzleRB
Member
Your right.. sorry about that.
Anyway, this definitely sucks. Very strange decision by Nintendo to handle the audio this way.
Bad Nintendo... Bad Nintendo
mentalfloss
Banned
I nearly had a heart attack 10 minutes ago when I read about the LPCM thing.
I had assumed as long as there was an HDMI connection, I would be fine. So I spent the last few days digging out my entire optical surround system and replacing it with an HDMI amp set (Denon amp with Polk audio subwoofer). I had no idea until today that DTS, and Dolby whatever wouldn't work AT ALL even if it is hooked up via HDMI.
Luckily, owner's manual confirms multichannel LPCM support.
I really feel for anyone in my position that would have gotten screwed after all that effort, time and money.
Stereo only netflix is also a shitty move.
Nintendo needs a firmware update to fix this.
I had assumed as long as there was an HDMI connection, I would be fine. So I spent the last few days digging out my entire optical surround system and replacing it with an HDMI amp set (Denon amp with Polk audio subwoofer). I had no idea until today that DTS, and Dolby whatever wouldn't work AT ALL even if it is hooked up via HDMI.
Luckily, owner's manual confirms multichannel LPCM support.
I really feel for anyone in my position that would have gotten screwed after all that effort, time and money.
Stereo only netflix is also a shitty move.
Nintendo needs a firmware update to fix this.
Wasn't it hypothesized that this might not be something patchable? I recall some evidence in one of these threads that the Wii U's audio processor might not have the oomph necessary to actually compress audio like that.
Please, bear with me a little longer, so in order to finally realise that i have to buy a new sound system!
1)I managed to find my HTiB manual and it says that the system supports PCM:IEC 60958.
Is that like good?If i buy a new AV receiver which supports lpcm5.1 and connect it via hdmi to my HTiB will it work?
2)I know that ZombiU offers the option to hear the whole sound from the gamepad. via headphones.If i were to buy surround headphones, would that be a good solution, as a surround substitute?
Thank you very much in advance people!!Help me in the Christmas spirit!
1)I managed to find my HTiB manual and it says that the system supports PCM:IEC 60958.
Is that like good?If i buy a new AV receiver which supports lpcm5.1 and connect it via hdmi to my HTiB will it work?
2)I know that ZombiU offers the option to hear the whole sound from the gamepad. via headphones.If i were to buy surround headphones, would that be a good solution, as a surround substitute?
Thank you very much in advance people!!Help me in the Christmas spirit!
UltimateIke
Member
Please, bear with me a little longer, so in order to finally realise that i have to buy a new sound system!
1)I managed to find my HTiB manual and it says that the system supports PCM:IEC 60958.
Is that like good?If i buy a new AV receiver which supports lpcm5.1 and connect it via hdmi to my HTiB will it work?
2)I know that ZombiU offers the option to hear the whole sound from the gamepad. via headphones.If i were to buy surround headphones, would that be a good solution, as a surround substitute?
Thank you very much in advance people!!Help me in the Christmas spirit!
IEC 60958 seems to just mean it has an S/PDIF connection (optical or coaxial), which means it can only do two channel PCM.
Why would you need to connect your old HTiB to a new AV receiver anyway? You can maybe use the speakers from your old system connected to the new receiver, but you can't just run HDMI from the new receiver to the HTiB and get audio.
I don't know a lot about them, but I think surround headphones usually require an optical connection and a Dolby Digital audio stream to work correctly. I don't think they'd help much connected to the stereo headphone jack on the Wii U controller.
That's correct.
Their (slow as a snail) CPU could be used to encode Dolby Digital though. Their audio chip is fast (lol) enough to encode DPLII, so that would be a way too (no Dolby Digital though), but if they went all the way to even strip DPLII support for Wii backward compatibility to save a few cents, why should they patch it back in. I doubt they will do it.
Well the speakers of my HTiB can only be connected to their own receiver, they are sort of proprietary form of Philips.
I see about the headphones.Its a pity
So, i guess new av receiver and 5.1 speakers...
UltimateIke
Member
Well the speakers of my HTiB can only be connected to their own receiver, they are sort of proprietary form of Philips.
I see about the headphones.Its a pity
So, i guess new av receiver and 5.1 speakers...
I thought that might be your case, with the proprietary speakers. I've had the same issue before too. It sucks.
I wish Nintendo could see this thread and the old no optical thread. Maybe they'd realize where they messed up. But they probably wouldn't care.
mentalfloss
Banned
While I agree that this is monumental idiocy, the fact that this is only an 8 page thread is probably an indication that they don't need to care.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Wii U helped me realize that I was also only getting stereo (or pro logic 2) sound from my bluray player, so updating to hdmi capable amp made sense. But man, I was pissed off at first...
Wait, when did we hear this? I thought all the talk was about how great it was the Wii U has a DSP (I think that's the term), and how that would take a lot of work away from the CPU, dedicated audio blah blah blah. Is their dedicated audio thing not as capable as something you'd find in a 5.1 capable dvd player?
Twenty7KVN
Member
Hey guys i got my wii-u Wednesday and i have it hocked up to my monitor with crappy speakers.I was thinking of buying this http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...d=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=1#largeimage not bad for what it claims it does.Anyway i have my receiver right next to my computer.I want to plug the wii-u into this hdmi out for video and spdif out to my receiver,i don't care about not getting true surround sound i just want better sound than what i'm getting now.Anyway has anyone tested this?or is their any reason it won't work?thanks for any help in advance.
How many people are running HDMI to a receiver that isn't capable of LPCM?
Are there any real statistics out there showing how many people have systems set up like that! Or running optical cables? Etc, etc?
(Also, just for the record, the industry is moving toward more players doing all decoding and sending LPCM to the receiver. Bitstream with decoding on the receiver is not even what's recommended for the PS3, better to go LPCM for maximum compatibility with most people's setups)
(However, Nintendo going cheap and not allowing for Dolby/DTS bitstream AT ALL seems like a middle finger to those that want to use the system in that way... Optical Headphone inputs, etc)
richman555
Member
While this doesn't bother me that much, it does surprise me coming from a company that touted the music and recognizable sounds as found in the Zelda games and the orchestra road show.
You would think it would have top notch audio.
You would think it would have top notch audio.
Anecdotal, but I am.
I'm using a Sony STR DG-520 (apparently it's last century tech according to the OP) and it doesn't support LPCM through HDMI.
Never had an issue with it as I get surround sound with Cable, Xbox, PS3. I guess I can live without SS for the WiiU. Disappointing, but no big deal.
Cheapest price I see at that link is $259.
plagiarize
Banned
My speakers came today, and I haven't got them properly set up yet, just set up on the floor right now, but I'm very happy with my purchase. They're definitely better than my current speakers, and I love having full compatibility with the Wii U. Now my speakers will auto select TV when I change input back and forth when I'm doing TVii, which is a nice side effect too.
Right now I'm reconfiguring my harmony.
Right now I'm reconfiguring my harmony.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
What the audio DSP is capable of I don't know, but a DVD player just has to pass along preencoded audio present on the disc, not do it in real-time.
Traditionally audio DSPs are used for mixing multiple channels and voices, and once their flexibility allows for wave inversions they can be indirectly (so not automatically requiring licenses) used to mix audio for analogue surround equipment (like DPLII) as well (that way e.g. the SNES was capable of surround sound). All the digital codecs are simply not part of the traditional capability (mixing audio) of such a DSP, and Nintendo apparently prefers saving the licensing cost involved with adding such to the system. Not a matter of speed and patching at all, DSPs are far from general purpose CPUs.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
One thing that I noticed is there is a noticeable delay between my (calibrated) surround sound speakers' Wii U output and the Wii U Pad. The Wii U Pad could have used a calibration option to make sure the speakers are in sync.
gingerbeardman
Member
Try enabling HDMI CEC audio sync on your Amp/Receiver. I have done and there is no issue