MisterAnderson
Member
Sooo my Steam library is incompatible?
Why hast Gaben forsaken me?
Why hast Gaben forsaken me?
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Valve engineer confirms Linux-based Steambox for 2013, could appear at GDC or E3
- Thread starter alexandros
- Start date
I'm guessing Source Engine 2 developed from the ground up to work on Windows, other consoles and OpenGL for Linux. They'll showcase HL3 as launch game, and thats why its taken so long.. b/c they want to release in tandem.
But, HL3 will also be coming to Xbox 720 and PC, WiiU and PS4 (because they would be stupid not to). Perhaps they might even make HL3 PC an Steambox exclusives for a timed release, but that would do nothing but piss off gamers, and I don't think Valve enjoys doing that. So ...
Steambox 2014 release, HL3 launch title, other valve games ported, a few third party games included.. totally like 15 launch games. HL3 will launch at the same time as all other platforms but the Steam PC and Steambox versions will enjoy some kind of exclusive features, functionality and options that other platforms will not.
I think in the end, the device will sell marginally well and likely never take much market share from either the Playstation or Xbox brands. At best they will sell to Playstation or Xbox consumers in addition, and enjoy some bleed over in that regard. However I could be wrong, the bottom line here is that this thing ain't shit without games. Valve first party isn't enough, and ports wil not be easy.
Valve is going to have to convince developers to now spend millions in money developing for yet another platform.. Linux and the Valve SDK. Because of that, it will be slow go out the gate and will depend heavily on the success of the platform before many jump in I suppose.
I''m currently typing this from Ubuntu 12.10, with Steam beta installed. Not 1 single game installed though, just about all available for Linux today (minus like 1-4 games) are rubbish and nothing I'm remotely interested in. Valve has a challenging road ahead, but I think they have the drive and will to do it.
And lets talk about the elephant in the room... something like this could cripple Valve as well if its a failure. Risky business, but I applaud the daring move.
But, HL3 will also be coming to Xbox 720 and PC, WiiU and PS4 (because they would be stupid not to). Perhaps they might even make HL3 PC an Steambox exclusives for a timed release, but that would do nothing but piss off gamers, and I don't think Valve enjoys doing that. So ...
Steambox 2014 release, HL3 launch title, other valve games ported, a few third party games included.. totally like 15 launch games. HL3 will launch at the same time as all other platforms but the Steam PC and Steambox versions will enjoy some kind of exclusive features, functionality and options that other platforms will not.
I think in the end, the device will sell marginally well and likely never take much market share from either the Playstation or Xbox brands. At best they will sell to Playstation or Xbox consumers in addition, and enjoy some bleed over in that regard. However I could be wrong, the bottom line here is that this thing ain't shit without games. Valve first party isn't enough, and ports wil not be easy.
Valve is going to have to convince developers to now spend millions in money developing for yet another platform.. Linux and the Valve SDK. Because of that, it will be slow go out the gate and will depend heavily on the success of the platform before many jump in I suppose.
I''m currently typing this from Ubuntu 12.10, with Steam beta installed. Not 1 single game installed though, just about all available for Linux today (minus like 1-4 games) are rubbish and nothing I'm remotely interested in. Valve has a challenging road ahead, but I think they have the drive and will to do it.
And lets talk about the elephant in the room... something like this could cripple Valve as well if its a failure. Risky business, but I applaud the daring move.
Expanding the audience? Who is there left to expand to?
Who is that mythical beast that:
- Doesn't own a console.
- Doesn't own a PC.
- Knows about Valve and Steam but never made the jump to the console or the PC.
- Is ready to jump on a totally new platform.
- Is ready to forget about the next-generation of consoles and the added value they add.
- Is ready to forget about most of the big games on the 360 and the PS3.
- Is ready to deal with a limited library for a while.
Who is that mythical beast that:
- Doesn't own a console.
- Doesn't own a PC.
- Knows about Valve and Steam but never made the jump to the console or the PC.
- Is ready to jump on a totally new platform.
- Is ready to forget about the next-generation of consoles and the added value they add.
- Is ready to forget about most of the big games on the 360 and the PS3.
- Is ready to deal with a limited library for a while.
1-3 aren't particularly relevant to Steambox as it's a new console.
4 - plenty of people if the games are good enough.
5 - who says this has to happen? Are people not allowed to own more than one system now? Also if it's someone's first system, and they choose Steambox over 360/PS3, they likely aren't interested in said 360/PS3 games anyway.
6 - anyone who buys a new system? Is there a massive library on the Wii U at the moment?
Weltall Zero
Member
This could go either way. I have a feeling it will gain more traction that people seem to assume, with a small chance to being a huge hit and dominating several or even all of the other big players. I honestly have no clue. I didn't have a clue just after reading the news, and I have less of a clue now, with such an even mix of people in the thread that want to buy it day one, people who won't touch it with a ten-foot pole, and people that will buy it "conditionally".
The one thing that makes this so unpredictable is that it's a self-supporting endeavour. If enough publishers get on board, then it will have a big enough library to attract a sizable portion of the gaming populace, in turn becoming more attractive for more publishers to jump on board, etc. It's the same snowballing thing that's been in every single console in every single generation. It being Linux is entirely a non-issue; all new consoles demand development from scratch in one way or another, and this is no different (if anything, it's better, Linux being far more estabilished than a new console's hardware/OS/APIs). If it snowballs large enough, heck, I'd be onboard if only so as to not buy my games twice. One license for PC and a console? Count me in.
One of the very things that people are decrying (the "limited" game library) is already better than any console at launch. Sure, you'll only have a few of your games to play on, at first. That's still "a few" more than in any new console. And really, do you not see Valve pushing extra hard to widen that window to a larger percentage of games before their SteamBox is released?
In any case, it's all idle talk now. If you think you can predict something as inherently unpredictable as this, and believe your grasp of the PC gaming market and publisher relationships is better than Valve of all companies, I have nothing more to say. In a few years we'll look at this thread and laugh heartily at either the doomsayers or the starry-eyed idealists, whoever turn out to be hilariously wrong.
That sounds eeriely similar to the rationale about why Final Fantasy VII could only be on N64... And that time, Squaresoft didn't even have the incentive of platform propietarity.
Perhaps that's why I'm so interestd in it, because I'm sick of Microsoft, I'm sick of Sony, and I'm sick of Nintendo.
The one thing that makes this so unpredictable is that it's a self-supporting endeavour. If enough publishers get on board, then it will have a big enough library to attract a sizable portion of the gaming populace, in turn becoming more attractive for more publishers to jump on board, etc. It's the same snowballing thing that's been in every single console in every single generation. It being Linux is entirely a non-issue; all new consoles demand development from scratch in one way or another, and this is no different (if anything, it's better, Linux being far more estabilished than a new console's hardware/OS/APIs). If it snowballs large enough, heck, I'd be onboard if only so as to not buy my games twice. One license for PC and a console? Count me in.
One of the very things that people are decrying (the "limited" game library) is already better than any console at launch. Sure, you'll only have a few of your games to play on, at first. That's still "a few" more than in any new console. And really, do you not see Valve pushing extra hard to widen that window to a larger percentage of games before their SteamBox is released?
In any case, it's all idle talk now. If you think you can predict something as inherently unpredictable as this, and believe your grasp of the PC gaming market and publisher relationships is better than Valve of all companies, I have nothing more to say. In a few years we'll look at this thread and laugh heartily at either the doomsayers or the starry-eyed idealists, whoever turn out to be hilariously wrong.
That sounds eeriely similar to the rationale about why Final Fantasy VII could only be on N64... And that time, Squaresoft didn't even have the incentive of platform propietarity.
Perhaps that's why I'm so interestd in it, because I'm sick of Microsoft, I'm sick of Sony, and I'm sick of Nintendo.
Baconsammy
Banned
Only if there's backwards compatibility, which with the WiiU there is. If going Linux hurts the backlog of what can be played on Steambox, that definitely won't help. Especially for people like my wife who won't go anywhere near it if it can't play Blizzard games. Ultimately it all depends on how good they are at marketing it as something other than PC Lite.
I don't see the point of Valve making a console wannabe PC if the launch lineup is their own titles and 25 indie games, it's not worth for anyone that have a console or PC buy this box at launch even at a really low price unless is a monster PC better than the pc the average gamer own and is capable of having windows installed on it to play all of the games you want, and they offer in the windows steamclient, sure they are working hard for having the vast majority of the games runing on Linux and sure they are working hard with developers to make this adventure proofitable for both but is a loooong run and i see Valve failing in the short term. Okay all of that is speculation and shit Valve is VALVE and nobody knows what are capable of doing.
I don't know about the first three, but the final three all exist right now considering many core gamers are eager to jump from the 360 and PS3 to a new console, willing to forgo backwards with the 360 and PS3 to play games on said new console, and is willing to have a limited library for a short time with said new console. Should the successors of the 360 and PS3 not have backwards compatibility, why should you buy either successor over Valve's new console? If the final three are an issue than why even make new consoles in the first place?
Again, for the general consumer this won't matter if it's marketed as a new console. There's backwards compatibility on the Wii U because Nintendo have released consoles before. Valve haven't - there's nothing to be compatible with. Sure, it's a PC, we know that. The average consumer doesn't unless Valve sells this as "a PC in a box" rather than "a new game console", which I doubt. There's also no PS2 backwards compatibility in most PS3s, indeed any new models now don't have it, yet that doesn't seem to affect sales significantly.
Sentenza
Member
And that's why it's not going to happen and people need to stop making this stupid assumption.
Seriously, it's stupid. Stop it.
No one knows how the next Xbox or PlayStation will perform. The Wii U isn't doing amazingly well, but might not be an indication for most of the "core" consoles. But both the 360 and the PS3 have 10 years + of marketing and are part of the marketplace as the default consoles.
Valve starts from zero as a manufacturer and a hardware company.
Valve starts from zero as a manufacturer and a hardware company.
Macs , ios , android, Wii / Wii U ,3ds , vita, PS3 / PS4 all use OpenGL
Microsoft directx on PC's is the exception , not the rule.
Sentenza
Member
"If you make a OGL version, with virtually no upcost you can sell it for Steam's Linux user base, for our console owners and for Mac. It also will be pretty much ready for smartphones/tablets in a couple of years, when they catch up with the hardware". There, done. you have convinced every single developer/publisher who isn't stupid and/or very bad at math.
No, it's not, it wouldn't make any sense.
A lot of people seem to be speculating that this will be a small-scale, "dipping your toe in" type off thing on Valve's part. For example, people assuming they would still release their games for the other consoles, and people saying 2-million sales would probably be considered a success... But how could that be the case?
You can't dip your toe into the console market. You're either in with an ambitious product with the intention of capturing significant market-share, and major exclusive software (like HL3 as a steam exclusive, kept off the other consoles), or you might as well stay at home. Or at least it seems that way to me.
So my guess is that whatever they have planned, it will have major selling points: a price competitive with the other consoles, some revolutionary features in terms of the interface, major exclusive software that won't be available on any other console, and it will be much more than a dumbed-down PC.
You can't dip your toe into the console market. You're either in with an ambitious product with the intention of capturing significant market-share, and major exclusive software (like HL3 as a steam exclusive, kept off the other consoles), or you might as well stay at home. Or at least it seems that way to me.
So my guess is that whatever they have planned, it will have major selling points: a price competitive with the other consoles, some revolutionary features in terms of the interface, major exclusive software that won't be available on any other console, and it will be much more than a dumbed-down PC.
I still don't see this happening unfortunately. Simple stuff like flexibility in updating and having to go through certification doesn't seem like things that will be magically fixed with new systems. Steam is appealing to indie devs because it allows all those things and gives a late life boost to the games through sales. Plus, with the emphasis on Kickstarter and F2P there seems to be a bit of a shift towards independent publishing.
Valve's been working internally on some ways of translating Direct3D to OpenGL that could potentially be applicable to other games.
Also, there are only a few Valve games titles the 30some Steam games already on Linux , and it's hilarious that you think Valve would launch a Steambox with literally no library.
that would be too crazy
Unless they provide libraries for third-party developers, like other console manufacturers do. Which I suspect they will.
I think it's safe to say that the Steambox is going to be far easier to port PC titles to than, say, the PS3 was. All the "b-b-but Linux!" moaning really needs to stop.
Four_Chamber
Member
Don't see the point of this if they still make games for PCs and consoles.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
I fail to see the purpose of this in today's world.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
what if this is designed to compete more with an alienware PC but just uses linux instead of running windows? I dont think they're actually making a console, but simply a custom gaming solution for PC's.
That must be a very small or niche market. You don't built a hardware lab and a custom device just to get a niche audience. That's too much trouble for very little to gain.
I think the right answer is Valve attempting to distance itself from Windows and try to create a platform that they can fully control.
Felix Lighter
Member
I'd imagine Valve sees Steam as the platform, whether you use their hardware or not, similar to the Kindle platform. Continuing to sell games on PC makes sense because you'd still be using Steam. Other consoles would be a different thing and it would depend on what the console manufacturers let them do.
Hellsing321
Member
The point is to get people who aren't using Steam to use Steam.
Go look at the Alienware X51 thread if you guys want to see demand. That thread is massive for an overpriced, underpowered piece of equipment.
Imagine for a minute that Valve is able to develop some kind of Windows/directx wrapper to run all of the games on the platform.
There is your audience and market.
If this means that more games are coded for Linux and don't have to be emulated through WINE, this is the best news I've heard in a while. It's not that I've been born ready to give up on Windows or bear a grudge. I'm just really excited what this means in the long run, I want to see how important gaming has become. This could set things going on Microsoft's side, as well.
outunderthestars
Banned
If that is the case why haven't other companies swooped in and captured this massive market in waiting?
For the same reason that we've had downloadable software since the '80s, downloadable software as a proven huge market since Doom was a BBS hit, and no one swooped in and captured the digital distribution market in waiting until Steam got hot in the mid-'00s?
I don't think that size of a thread on Neogaf has anything to do with the actual market demand. In fact, I would disregard any online forums as "proof" of anything.
bigtroyjon
Member
Vita threads are also massive on GAF. Doesn't mean jack shit to the overall market.
So is this going to be like an alienware X51 with closed specs and steam as medium through which all software would be purchased?
It'd be interesting to see the specs in light of all rumours of the PS4 and XB3 may bring to the table. Valve has really kept the lid tight on that end.
It'd be interesting to see the specs in light of all rumours of the PS4 and XB3 may bring to the table. Valve has really kept the lid tight on that end.
Are you kidding?
Falcon NW
Cyber Power
ibuypower
That doesn't even include stuff like Dell or HP.
The pre-built gaming PC market is pretty massive.
From what Valve has been saying it will have fairly open specs. You will be able to go in and change out parts however you want.
That is my personal belief. We will have to wait and see.
outunderthestars
Banned
Those products combined don't sell in a year what Microsoft will sell this month alone. There simply is no large market, at the moment, for pre-built gaming pc's.
Valve has an uphill battle in terms of being able to deliver something that resembles modern PC gaming at a price that the market will accept.
So... why not just buy or build a PC, install linux and install steam client on it? Or is the initial (spec'd) steambox going to have some sort of Valve subsidised pricing which would mean getting more for your money? I am confused.
Maybe Valve wants people who are scared of building a PC (it may seem silly to us, but those people are in the majority) to mature into people doing it comfortably and confidently, an evolution from saying: "Well, I guess I could switch out the graphics card, it doesn't look that hard..." to "Fuck it, I'll just build a new PC, it's fun."
The Shift
Banned
How well will this console be received at retail? I mean this box is a one time sale for brick and mortar no? No retail game sales/margins etc. What is the business case for retailers to stock/sell it if the customer buys all the software for it digitally? Or is Valve going to sell the console via a web store/Steam? It might be similar to mobile phone outright purchases but there is margin there. This opens up another discussion entirely - will this console be pushed into the has been corner when MS/Sony/Nintendo can pay out millions in end capping and prime display real estate? Traditional console logistics, supply chain and marketing accrue costs in the billions, something Valve might find precarious no doubt.
outunderthestars
Banned
I assume Valve is going to attempt to sell it at cost or at a small loss. It will be tough because they aren't going to be able to order parts on the scale that the big three can....
That much is obvious if you can't understand why a good portion of the gamer populace wouldn't be interested in doing all of that.
MrCunningham
Member
Indeed, most PC's you buy in retail really aren't geared towards gaming. Having a gaming dedicated PC in a console factor might not be a bad idea here. Even most i5's - i7's you buy in retail are running intel integrated graphics, or some lower end GPU designed for modest gaming. When it comes to upgrading, most people don't know how to do it, are afraid to do it themselves, don't know how to shop for a decent graphics card, or are unaware that they even can upgrade. Putting out a dedicated machine that can play games might not be a bad idea. It all comes down to how Linux will be handled in this machine.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
I'd gladly get a Steambox if, you know, I can hack it to run Origin and GOG downloads onto it so I can have just that and a Wii U to get through this gaming generation.
If only...
If only...
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