Flachmatuch
Member
Mostly because they're basically a single-game studio. We'll see in, say, half a decade, how dependent they're on Notch.
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Edge #250 - The World's 50 Greatest Developers
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Mostly because they're basically a single-game studio. We'll see in, say, half a decade, how dependent they're on Notch.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
So you do see how Mojang differ from Koji Pro then.
How is Mojang #2 and Rovio not represented at all? Both companies had flash in the pan success and made cultural impact. Neither has done it again though. I would argue that Rovio has been more important in changing the direction of the gaming industry. Rovio has made a ton more money with merchandise. Rovio is more widely known.
LunaticHigh
Member
While I don't like Minecraft, people here do realize that Minecraft is just as important to gaming today as Super Mario was when we were young right? It's that big. For Mojang to take one game, their first real shot, and become that big, and then translate it into support for multiple platforms while providing constant free updates seems pretty important to me.
I have relatives with children who only play Minecraft, who would never think of gaming otherwise.. and Unlike something like Wii Sports, it acts as a much better gateway into more gaming in my opinion. Just what I think of Mojang. They really haven't done anything other than that though, I'm fine with them being this high in a modern game dev list.
I have relatives with children who only play Minecraft, who would never think of gaming otherwise.. and Unlike something like Wii Sports, it acts as a much better gateway into more gaming in my opinion. Just what I think of Mojang. They really haven't done anything other than that though, I'm fine with them being this high in a modern game dev list.
Let's not exaggerate here. Even if that was the case, a portfolio with a whopping one game, no matter how good it is doesn't make for the 2nd best dev in the world.
EDGE never talk about mobile games, IIRC.
I think this post does more to strengthen the opposing opinion, than fight it. Eh well, opinions.
Didn't mean it as an insult sorry. The list is of currently relevant developers, the all-time lists have been made a billion times and who gives a shit about them? We all know who made whichever classic and the credit has been given already plenty of times.
All of which are not valued in this particular ranking.
Even if we assume this is true, which I do not, Nintendo was cranking out classic hits along with bringing innovation to the hardware side of the industry.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Don't have an opinion on most of the list, but I think Platinum and From in the top 10 is more than well deserved if creativity and variety is any factor in the ranking.
Same thing with Valve and their way of delivering content through Dota2 and TF2. I wish games I liked and played got the kind of support those games do.(Yes Dota2 is in "beta" but I'm not sure that has the same meaning as it does for other games as there is already a competitive scene for the game in its current form)
They've shipped two products this gen and cancelled another.
the two they did ship were just new versions of Metal Gear that took "influences" (ideas and mechanics) from other popular games. (Gears and Monster Hunter)
while the game they cancelled was canned because they couldn't come up with original content to support the concept they decided on.
Here's hoping Ground Zeroes/5/Phantom Pain or whatever is a return to form for the studio. They have most certainly fallen off this generation in terms of quality and creativity in my opinion.
Same thing with Valve and their way of delivering content through Dota2 and TF2. I wish games I liked and played got the kind of support those games do.(Yes Dota2 is in "beta" but I'm not sure that has the same meaning as it does for other games as there is already a competitive scene for the game in its current form)
They've shipped two products this gen and cancelled another.
the two they did ship were just new versions of Metal Gear that took "influences" (ideas and mechanics) from other popular games. (Gears and Monster Hunter)
while the game they cancelled was canned because they couldn't come up with original content to support the concept they decided on.
Here's hoping Ground Zeroes/5/Phantom Pain or whatever is a return to form for the studio. They have most certainly fallen off this generation in terms of quality and creativity in my opinion.
Lambda Pie
Banned
what the hell, are you trying to argue that SEGA's run in the 90s is inferior to Valve's entire catalog?
Daytona USA
Daytona USA 2
SEGA Rally
SEGA Rally 2
Virtua Fighter 2
Virtua Fighter 3
Virtua Cop 2
House of the Dead
Virtual On OT
Golden Axe: The Revenge of Death Adder
Sonic The Hedgehog
Streets of Rage 2
Streets of Rage 3
Last Bronx
Crazy Taxi
Scud Race
and that's a sample, out of my head. i'm sure Wikipedia has the full list.
Flachmatuch
Member
Yep. Noch has not yet proven himself. It may be very, very easily the case that Mojang is also a one man studio. I should have originally that "I don't see anything that proves Mojang will be different". And frankly, I think the general idea of the game was very much in the air, so, while this may sound bad, I think Notch's contribution (unlike the Dwarf Fortress guy's hehe) was to create something that uses this concept in a way that's simple enough for a lot of people to play. Which is of course pretty awesome in itself, but doesn't prove him some awesome world-shattering creative genius.
Considering Super Mario Bros. pretty much saved the video game industry, that's not exactly an accurate comparison.
Minecraft has had a huge impact, and is a very great game, but that one game shouldn't give Mojang the number 2 spot, let alone be above friggen Nintendo.
dark_prinny
Banned
Valve at #1 is fine. Portal 2 wasn't that long ago. The rest of it makes no sense. Some studios have one game under their belt that were released recently, others have not released anything in two or more years (or five for Irrational and Rockstar North - two of my favorite developers). Doesn't seem to have a consistent metric. Some of them... I just looked at Jagex's web site and that didn't clarify anything.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
That may well be the case (maybe EAD will fall apart when Miyamoto dies, who knows), but as we currently have no evidence of that(but we clearly do for KP), the difference is clearly apparent (unless you expect this list to be based on what might happen in the future, which is ludicrous).
This looks like a great issue! I'll definitely have to pick it up.
Some interesting choices for the top 50 devs.
I run my own video game store, and as crazy as it sounds there are more kids who come in that react to our Minecraft displays than our Mario ones. We proceed to educate them. O.O Either way it's great to see kids so stoked about Minecraft instead of say, Black Ops II.
Some interesting choices for the top 50 devs.
I run my own video game store, and as crazy as it sounds there are more kids who come in that react to our Minecraft displays than our Mario ones. We proceed to educate them. O.O Either way it's great to see kids so stoked about Minecraft instead of say, Black Ops II.
They champion mobile games a lot: Ziggurat, Drop7, SpellTower, Canabalt. I'm pretty sure Terry's placing was helped considerably by Jason Killingsworth's Super Hexagon obsession.
zero shift
Banned
I find it very odd to not put the Nintendo EAD studios at #1 simply because their quality output is just insane. Every year theres at least two or three games that company puts out that's GOTY material. Just this last year they released Super Mario Bros. U, New Super Mario Bros. 2, Nintendo Land, and Animal Crossing: New Leaf. They are one of the incredibly few, if only, companies that have maintained the traditional mega-90s quality output of yesteryears. Probably because they have no other choice.
Valve, well if this is OVERALL, then yes. I can imagine putting them at #1. Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead, Portal, CounterStrike, and of course Half-Life. Though over Nintendo EAD? Thats a tough call being that the latter regularly revolutionizes the industry through its games. And recently what was their last "HOLY SHIT!" game? DOTA2 is in beta and has been for some time. CounterStrike: Global Offensive was great, but its the same old same old made exclusively for its narrow fanbase who I blame entirely for the series stagnate. Its kind of like when a new addition of a niche shoot-em-up comes out. I mean yeah its great but I've played this game a million times already. Before that was...Portal II? The company has clearly been busy and most likely with the overhaul Steam has been getting and the Steambox project.
#2 is a joke quite frankly. How the hell does developing one single game get you at that spot? I admit that I've never played Minecraft but I can't imagine a single game a developer could make and have them catapult all the way into that spot. Just switch Minecraft with Grand Theft Auto III, Ocarina of Time, The Sims, Chrono Trigger, Half-Life 1/2. It doesn't make any sense, and historically this is too early to call as there have been many example of developers making one hit wonders to then just be faded into obscurity with mediocre follow ups.
Valve, well if this is OVERALL, then yes. I can imagine putting them at #1. Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead, Portal, CounterStrike, and of course Half-Life. Though over Nintendo EAD? Thats a tough call being that the latter regularly revolutionizes the industry through its games. And recently what was their last "HOLY SHIT!" game? DOTA2 is in beta and has been for some time. CounterStrike: Global Offensive was great, but its the same old same old made exclusively for its narrow fanbase who I blame entirely for the series stagnate. Its kind of like when a new addition of a niche shoot-em-up comes out. I mean yeah its great but I've played this game a million times already. Before that was...Portal II? The company has clearly been busy and most likely with the overhaul Steam has been getting and the Steambox project.
#2 is a joke quite frankly. How the hell does developing one single game get you at that spot? I admit that I've never played Minecraft but I can't imagine a single game a developer could make and have them catapult all the way into that spot. Just switch Minecraft with Grand Theft Auto III, Ocarina of Time, The Sims, Chrono Trigger, Half-Life 1/2. It doesn't make any sense, and historically this is too early to call as there have been many example of developers making one hit wonders to then just be faded into obscurity with mediocre follow ups.
But they are not making a list here of best dev of all time. This is the criteria behind the list:
It's very subjective and they know it. People need to get their heads of their asses and apply some thinking into this. And you shouldn't argue about the spots themselves all that much because it's almost impossible to rate different studios in any sensible way. This is a shoutout to 50 great devs that are currently making something good and new.
Flachmatuch
Member
Actually I don't think it's ludicrous. I'd expect the list to have either historical or predictive value (as much as that's possible). It should either correlate with historical achievements, or try to predict, to the extent possible, future ones. My private impression is that there's no reason to expect anything nearly as successful as MC from Mojang. Also, maybe I'm wrong, but my impression is actually that Mojang is very much going to be a one-person studio, even more than KP. If that's even possible. Basically, I have the impression that a) MC's success is based on the lucky (although reasonably high quality) catching of a general trend and b) Notch is a bit too self-absorbed and not as talented as he thinks he is, so in terms of what he'll do in the future, I expect nothing even remotely close to MC. Obviously I may be 100% wrong, but this is a very strong impression for me.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I don't understand how you can be on the list of Top 50 devs if you've only released one game. I think 343 and Mojang have been incredibly successful with those singular releases, but I don't see how that trumps studios like Platinum, that have consistently released amazing game after amazing game despite being rather small.
If you create an amazing enough phenomena, then I think it's more than fair to get recognition for it. Also read the criterias that are in the OP.
funkystudent
Member
I know edge have a UK bias but in what world is Ninja theory better then SSM, Heck even Criterion who are one of the most consistently great studios of the last 15 years?
Why is Ninja theory even on that list?
They have made 2 middling games (soon to be 3?)
And I have the same feelings most seem to be saying about Mojang. They struck gold with minecraft but calling them the 2nd greatest developer right now seems like something you will look back on in a few years and laugh at.
Why is Ninja theory even on that list?
They have made 2 middling games (soon to be 3?)
And I have the same feelings most seem to be saying about Mojang. They struck gold with minecraft but calling them the 2nd greatest developer right now seems like something you will look back on in a few years and laugh at.
Their third game is gathering quite the good grades and word of mouth actually. It's easily their best output yet.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
I think it is ludicrous to expect another Mojang game to have the impact that Minecraft did/does ( It took Miyamoto years to make another game with the impact of SMB, & plenty of people would argue that he never managed to do so), & I don't really think that applying the criteria you would personally use to compile a list to judge this list is particularly useful(given that the criteria stated makes no mention of those things).
LOL. No.
Somebody needs to tell Justin Richmond of Naughty Dog this.
Even Arkane's position makes no sense, and I liked Dishonored for the most part.
MaverickHunterX
Member
I, too ask about Rocksteady, but my question is why SOE over Santa Monica?
I know GAF hates them, but kinda disappointed at no Dimps mention...
I know GAF hates them, but kinda disappointed at no Dimps mention...
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Mojang at #2?? The developer that made just one game? The hell?
Flachmatuch
Member
First, the criteria they state are mostly completely meaningless and the list doesn't even pretend to conform to them. But I'd like to see a list that's explicitly trying to predict which developers will make impactful games in the near future and see how well it fares from year to year. Just making a list with no meaning, that cannot be evaluated either based on historical contribution or (a few laters after it gets published of course) predictive accuracy is a bit stupid.
Second, I didn't mean making another Minecraft, just keeping quality up in the way Valve, Nintendo or Blizzard do (or used to do :-/). That is the very least that you do if you're one of the "best developers": you may not revolutionise the industry (apart from maybe Nintendo over a few decades, I don't think any company could do that repeatedly) with each of your products, but you consistently produce really high quality stuff. There's nothing about Mojang that says they'll be able to do that.
Third, as for Miyamoto, maybe "plenty of people" would argue that his best game was SMB, but I don't think anyone would argue that the other stuff he did was insignificant or much below SMB in terms of "impact". He may or may not have surpassed it, but he certainly kept up a pretty high quality and very creative output. Which I just don't expect from Notch.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Atlus is not there while Ninja Theory is there, HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Alx
Member
Nice to see Platinum in the highest ranks. Don't care much about the rest.
I'm really glad that Platinum is appreciated at the same time by the online community (namely GAF), the press (Edge), and even their peers (Konami, when they need to rely on someone to save their projects). All they need now is recognition on the mass market, hopefully MGR will be a big step in that direction.
I'm really glad that Platinum is appreciated at the same time by the online community (namely GAF), the press (Edge), and even their peers (Konami, when they need to rely on someone to save their projects). All they need now is recognition on the mass market, hopefully MGR will be a big step in that direction.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
All you can judge Mojang on is Minecraft, your crystal ball gazing is pointless & has not a single shred of evidence supporting it, if in 5 years EDGE still have Mojang on the list(& they have a catalogue of mediocre releases) then your argument applys, at the moment though it is meaningless.
Flachmatuch
Member
Errr, that is exactly why I wouldn't put it as #2 on the list. They have not a single shred of evidence that he'll do anything awesome - unlike loads of other companies demonstrating long track records of incredible games. Edge's crystall ball gazing valued Notch over Nintendo, Blizzard, Polyphony Digital, Kojima - everyone but Valve. I find that much more idiotic than my pov, which basically says "prove yourself before you get considered the best". For any serious list, it would be an honour for a one game developer to get into the top 50, imo. Getting into the #2 position fucks up the entire list. Not that anyone should care about a stupid Edge list hehehe.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
A part of me feels like it's an affront to gaming to have something other than Miyamoto there when nobody is even close to half his body of work; with all due respect to them - and they've earned a lot of it - not Valve. And Mojang ahead of him is just absurd. The two Mario Galaxy games alone (Galaxy 2 being the #1 overall game on Metacritic) should equal or outshine Minecraft - especially considering they themselves gave Galaxy a 10 and Minecraft a 9.
I think Edge just went down a notch in my estimation.
I think Edge just went down a notch in my estimation.
LightOfTruth
Member
...LMAO
Anyways, other than that garbage, this list is ok. I think this list is supposed to be a 'modern times' list, not the best developers of all time. #2 is dumb, and even though I stan for Valve, I dont think they're #1 (or 2 for that matter, top 5 for sure though). Nintendo has to be #1.
But my biggest problem with this list is no Retro. Fuck that shit.
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
They pulled it out of their ass, like everything else they write.
Well all subjective writings are like that.
It's successfull, influential, critically acclaimed and stuff bro.
LightofRohan
Member
Not bad of a list, but I know a couple people that worked at Valve and they did not like it at all. The place is TOO laid back that it gets hard to get things done, so it's not ideal for the more active/completionist people. (not saying it doesnt deserve #1 though)
PaleFolklore
Member
Valve at Number 1 right where they belong. That number 2 though...
Byakuya769
Member
HAHAHAHAHA.... Ninja Theory but not Insomniac!?!
and the only one in the company's portfolio.
Its not so influential that it catapults its parent company to number 2 developer of ALL TIME