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[Karak]

About Durango's OS...

... is it that crazy to think there'll be software compatibility with Windows 8 or, more likely, Windows 8 RT?

If that's the case they might want enough RAM to have a good RT experience. But moreover, they may be thinking about the fact that this is going to be one of their main boxes in the home for the next 5 years...and may be thinking about windows 9 rt and windows 10 rt app demands over the product's lifecycle.

I don't know, just a thought. Assuming the 3GB thing is correct. Which it might not be, as others are suggesting.

Actually. Another poster mentioned something about 3GB ceilings and how that might go up and down depending on what uses a game dev wanted from the OS and additional features. So I spent the last hour and did indeed find a couple random bits about that. It could be that MS knows that 5gb's for games is MORE than enough and decided to allow for 1.5 more headroom than they had originally specced as a recent target. Meaning if a game dev wanted full recording they had to allot a specific amount but if they didn't they could keep that for their game or whatever else.

Frankly that is the ONLY thing that makes sense.
Actually the only thing is that it is still 1:1.5 BUT the above makes far more sense now that I went scouring.

 

[Clay Davis]

What do you mean? They didn't lay out the entire OS. You're acting like we now know everything about it. We know practically nothing but one tidbit about one feature.

on the basis of the information, the feature set they are rumoured to be aiming for sounds like the current feature set on the 360. bar the updating and standby mode.

I wasn't talking of a complete ui overhaul, just the os features mentioned in the article.

 

[velociraptor]

You just asked about the PS4, but now you're talking about the PS3?


As for "X" more powerful, those types of statements are always questionable. It's hard to say. Just watch that link I provided, and know that should be the minimum the console is capable of, and that is pretty damn exciting to consider. A few years down the road, when developers have learned all the tricks, it's going to be capable of some amazing stuff.

Yes. I'm just trying to get a feeling how powerful each console is relative to it's time. So am attempting to 'figure out' the generational leap to expect, lol.

 

[phosphor112]

Isn't the memory counter at the top of the screen referring to system memory? Check second picture. Top says 1.7GB, while the VRAM counter says 2GB.

Yeah, but it's also running at 120fps... which, you know 90+% of consumers don't have a TV that can run that.

 

[King_Moc]

Orbis would be much more powerful imo. Bare in mind, I don't think any single GPU on the market current has more than 2gb GDDR5, so Orbis's 4gb is a healthy amount. The cpus might not be quite as benchmarking mind, but it all depends on customisations and specific perks. Secret sauce as Eurogamer put it.

The 670, 680 and 690 all have 4GB variants. And that Orbis figure is all of it's RAM, remember. The RAM on PC graphics cards is literally just doing graphics.

 

[Darryl]

And what price is that, do you think?

below 400

 

[Thoraxes]

below 400

lol

 

[magicaltrevor]

Youtube already has enough awful gameplay , abuse of search tags and nasal voices talking over said awful gameplay.

Please, no more.

Obviously, it's because you keep watching those videos that said people keep uploading them.

 

[IcyBlueStrawberry]

below 400

Expect $500

 

[VanWinkle]

If I had to guess, Durango OS will use 8's kernel, but this doesn't mean they are going to put in a PC OS in there. This is still a closed platform, and I'm sure MS doesn't have plans to go ahead and let you install Office in it, or whatever your software is because this isn't a PC.

Regarding amount of ram, so what you are saying is that if I only had 512 MB of GDDr5, windows 8 would run on it, even if it took 3 GB of ddr3 to run?

How does that make sense?

I never said they were equal, and how on earth did I saw Windows would run on it? Windows requires a certain amount of ram. What I'm saying, and I laid it out quite simply, is that just because 512mb is 6 times less than 3gb, that doesn't mean 512mb GDDR5 is 6 times less powerful than 3gb DDR3.

 

[Dr. Light]

I don't think any single GPU on the market current has more than 2gb GDDR5,

The 7900 series has 3GB, although right now that memory has yet to really used for anything.

 

[Clay Davis]

You're talking as if this short quote just laid out the entire feature set of the PS4 OS. We still don't really know anything about it.

I'm not, I'm only talking about the feature set mentioned in the article. maybe they have a lot more, but history tells me that maybe they won't have anything big or surprising on the os front. I genuinely hope I am wrong though, I want sony to lead the way next gen, not be continuously playing catch up as they have been doing this generation.

 

[ekim]

Expect $500

Difficult to tell. From the raw specs one could expect 400$. But if it does come with some extra gimmick like move,Vr glasses or something else, it could go up to 500.

 

[Darryl]

lol

lol

Expect $500

only if they have some insane throw-in item (kinect 2.0) that would raise the price. no way this box is 500.

 

[Withnail]

Durango is clearly a trojan horse to get the Windows 8 ecosystem in the living room.

Going to be interesting to see how that goes.

 

[magicaltrevor]

I don't think they can afford to ask more than 400 in the current market.

 

[Orayn]

SUMMARY FOR LAYPEOPLE, BY A LAYPERSON

Experts, please PM me threats of bodily harm if any of this is wrong.

So what does this mean for regular joe shmoe? How does it compare to PS3 and to current PCs say with an Intel i5 2500k CPU with a GTX460 v2?

• You have a faster CPU, but that doesn't necessarily translate to better performance because console games are much more optimized.
• The GPU is a good deal faster than yours, comparable to a mid-high-end 2012 desktop card.

Please some insight of this would be appreciated! Also does the DF info match the leaks/what it was expected of PS4?

• Orbis/PS4 is very likely using an 8-core 1.6GHz Jaguar CPU. Jaguar is a low power consumption CPU designed for laptops and tablets. It's based on x86, same as any normal desktop or laptop that runs Windows.
• PS4 using 4GB of GDDR5 RAM is also looking very well supported. GDDR5 is a very fast type of RAM used in high end video cards.
• Durango/Xbox 720 probably has 8GB of DDR3, which is the type of RAM in a normal desktop computer.
• PS4 supposedly reserves 512MB (0.5GB) of RAM for its OS, compared to the next Xbox using 3GB out of 8. Some people are afraid this will limit the PS4's multi-tasking capabilities later on.
• These rumors probably overreach by claiming the exact identity of the GPU, but they're in the right ballpark.

 

[Proelite]

The weakest PC that can play Orbis games at the same settings, resolutions and framerate would be

quad core i7 at 3.0 ghz.
>=4GB of RAM
7870 GHZ edition or better GPU.

Durango is clearly a trojan horse to get the Windows 8 ecosystem in the living room.

Going to be interesting to see how that goes.

You're clearly jumping to conclusions.

The 3GB isn't even correct.

 

[leroidys]

This may be the first console I buy at launch since the GBA if its at $399 or below.

 

[deepbrown]

My understanding of all this isn't great, however, I have a question.

Developers constantly they say they want more and more Ram. If PS4 has 4GB and XNext has 8GB, won't the PS3 be a severe limitation for multiplatform development? I know the rumours are that the Ram is better on the PS4, but double the Ram for the XNext - from a laymens POV that doesn't look good for the PS4.

Can someone explain why that isn't the case?

 

[Psychotext]

I can't help feeling there's something we're missing about Durango and the RAM. There's been a grand total of no satisfactory explanations so far for why you'd need that sort of allocation (you wouldn't even come close to that if you included a full fat operating system).

I wonder how long it'll be before we find out.

 

[Darknight]

Ok thanx dudes for some replies on my Q.

I await GOW4 on PS4 to be basically a CG like render of Kratos with his skin steaming up in 1080P detail while he bangs Nariko @ 60FPS. It will be glorious. Then off to kill off all world gods.

@Orayn: You rock dude, thanx!

 

[magicaltrevor]

I'm not, I'm only talking about the feature set mentioned in the article. maybe they have a lot more, but history tells me that maybe they won't have anything big or surprising on the os front. I genuinely hope I am wrong though, I want sony to lead the way next gen, not be continuously playing catch up as they have been doing this generation.

Unfortunately, Sony is not a software company. Microsoft is.

They will always outdo Sony on that end... unless Sony decides to move the bulk of the software development out of Japan and invest in a dedicated team of UX experts and coders.

Just look at what they're doing with the skin on their Android Smartphones. :-(

 

[velociraptor]

Maybe Sony should slap on an extra 2GB DDR3 RAM for the OS? Surely this can't cost more than 10 bucks?

Faith in Orbis restored after seeing this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyXWSsg5LU&feature=player_embedded

Crysis 2 at 1080p 60fps on a laptop graphics card? I'm impressed. I think this bodes well for the future of these current 'next-gen' consoles.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Expect $500

For a 65w small die gpu and a low end small die cpu? NO fucking way.

Between 299 and 399 depending on how greedy they are.
I'm willing to bet (if the specs are true) it'll launch at 300-350, 400 for the sku with the proper HDD.

 

[Karak]

My understanding of all this isn't great, however, I have a question.

Developers constantly they say they want more and more Ram. If PS4 has 4GB and XNext has 8GB, won't the PS3 be a severe limitation for multiplatform development? I know the rumours are that the Ram is better on the PS4, but double the Ram for the XNext - from a laymens POV that doesn't look good for the PS4.

Can someone explain why that isn't the case?

It is not the case currently. A closed platform and 4 gigs is more than enough.

 

[ghst]

Indeed. Judging by the feverish hoopla from many citizens of GAF I was expecting these machines to be powerhouses. It's somewhat unfortunate to see them being run of the mill, though that is to be accepted when it concerns affordability.

Will be interesting to see where the machines stand in 5 years time and whether Microsoft continues with videogames.

i think it's a little unfair to call them run of the mill considering the limitations they are working under. it's not like the old days where a little architectural creativity can go a long way: nowadays you pay by the watt and consoles have light wallets.

the only people that really owe themselves disappointment are those ignorant to demands of modern high end hardware, who simply traced over their nostalgic memories of previous launches and called it expectation.

• You have a faster CPU, but that doesn't necessarily translate to better performance because console games are much more optimized.
• The GPU is a good deal faster than yours, comparable to a mid-high-end 2012 desktop card.

to clarify, it is likely that the 2500k is an order of more powerful, but don't count out developers who write for 8 threads and then send some thumbfingered post-grad to write the most bloated port code imaginable.

the gpu is a mid-high end 2010/11 card (or a mid range 2012 card), a 460 is a mid range 2010/11 card.

 

[pieatorium]

This may be the first console I buy at launch since the GBA if its at $399 or below.

Software is the only reason to buy at launch, even if it's cheap if it aint got no games then it's better to wait.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

I think it's the other way around.
He probably prefers PS3, but envies the cool stuff on Xbox (you know, cross-game invites, party chat, etc).

Don't worry. It will all be there.

Ohh, I prefer the PS3 WAY more. I have preferred the PS1, PS2, and PS3.

Its just that this generation, I have seen the PS3 been outclassed in almost everything. From the OS, to the features, to the multiplat games, to the apps (first party games are still the best). Hell, some of my friends jumped ship from the PS3 because of simply party/cross game chat. Beacons were just another nail in the coffin.

I just don't want the same shit happening to the PS4. Mind you, I am not technically savvy at all (I'm sure it obvious), but when people in this thread are wondering why the xbox needs 3gb for the os, just has me worried that MS has something up their sleeves that Sony just cannot compete with because of hardware limitations.

Hopefully Sony learned lessons from the PS3. I am expecting another 7 year generation.

 

[nib95]

My understanding of all this isn't great, however, I have a question.

Developers constantly they say they want more and more Ram. If PS4 has 4GB and XNext has 8GB, won't the PS3 be a severe limitation for multiplatform development? I know the rumours are that the Ram is better on the PS4, but double the Ram for the XNext - from a laymens POV that doesn't look good for the PS4.

Can someone explain why that isn't the case?

I'm not very well versed on this , but the gist I get from reading other forums is that bandwidth is just as important if not more so as it allows you to do more within the space occupied. Especially good for intensive or highly taxing graphical features etc, which slower ram will struggle to pull off at the high end. It's the reason why high end GPUs ship with GDDR5 and not much bigger amounts of DDR3 which would actually be a good degree cheaper.

 

[Withnail]

If the Durango specs are true I think MS are competing against the rumoured Apple iOS TV more than they are Sony.

 

[Globox_82]

My understanding of all this isn't great, however, I have a question.

Developers constantly they say they want more and more Ram. If PS4 has 4GB and XNext has 8GB, won't the PS3 be a severe limitation for multiplatform development? I know the rumours are that the Ram is better on the PS4, but double the Ram for the XNext - from a laymens POV that doesn't look good for the PS4.

Can someone explain why that isn't the case?

its not same type of ram. its gddr5 vs gddr3. ps4 is gddr5 much faster so its not 4vs8 really

 

[velociraptor]

Ohh, I prefer the PS3 WAY more. I have preferred the PS1, PS2, and PS3.

Its just that this generation, I have seen the PS3 been outclassed in almost everything. From the OS, to the features, to the multiplat games, to the apps (first party games are still the best). Hell, some of my friends jumped ship from the PS3 because of simply party/cross game chat. Beacons were just another nail in the coffin.

I just don't want the same shit happening to the PS4. Mind you, I am not technically savvy at all (I'm sure it obvious), but when people in this thread are wondering why the xbox needs 3gb for the os, just has me worried that MS has something up their sleeves that Sony just cannot compete with because of hardware limitations.

Hopefully Sony learned lessons from the PS3. I am expecting another 7 year generation.

I'll be happy if both the 720/PS4 are closely matched in terms of power. This way I won't be shafted if I buy the PS4, both in terms of graphics, and multiplatform games.

8GB vs 4GB though... lol.

 

[coldfoot]

Unfortunately, Sony is not a software company. Microsoft is.

They will always outdo Sony on that end... unless Sony decides to move the bulk of the software development out of Japan and invest in a dedicated team of UX experts and coders.

I thought they were doing that and moving to Santa Monica?

 

[Ryoku]

Maybe Sony should slap on an extra 2GB DDR3 RAM for the OS? Surely this can't cost more than 10 bucks?

Doesn't work the same way as it does in desktops. It increases board complexity, and requires space on the motherboard itself (it is soldered onto the motherboard), whereas on desktops, you can just place the RAM into its slots.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

I'll be happy if both the 720/PS4 are closely matched in terms of power. This way I won't be shafted if I buy the PS4, both in terms of graphics, and multiplatform games.

8GB vs 4GB though... lol.

Getting really fucking tired of seeing this 100 times per thread about console specs.

 

[Trogdor1123]

So how much does a gig of DDR3 cost and how much does a gig of GDDR5 cost?

 

[Ushae]

Wow this thread got big fast.

So correct me if I'm wrong. Both consoles 'feel' like they will have equivalent performance in rendering games, albiet with different flavours such as RAM differences.

MS huge OS footprint sounds like they are paving the way for 3rd party apps, heavy kinect integration and possibly live streaming?.

 

[deepbrown]

its not same type of ram. its gddr5 vs gddr3. ps4 is gddr5 much faster so its not 4vs8 really

OK, yes, I get that. It's much faster. But double the amount of Ram? I don't believe the '3GB for XNext's OS' - if that is the case, that will be chopped down over time if Microsoft sees PS4 getting a graphical advantage (similar to what Sony did with PS3's OS memory footprint). So, would PS4 still have the memory advantage?

What if the 4GB is true, but the type of Ram is wrong? Would PS4 be buggered in comparison to XNext?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

The weakest PC that can play Orbis games at the same settings, resolutions and framerate would be

quad core i7 at 3.0 ghz.
>=4GB of RAM
7870 GHZ edition or better GPU.

what is this based on? nobody is even building gaming rigs with i7 CPUs.

 

[magicaltrevor]

its not same type of ram. its gddr5 vs gddr3. ps4 is gddr5 much faster so its not 4vs8 really

This is why Sony should not focus their marketing on the specs... but on the 'experience'.
Like Apple do.

We know there is a huge difference in the types of RAM.
But for the masses, it will always be 8 vs 4.

This is all still based on speculation though. Well, most of it. So it's not really worth having a discussion about at this point.

 

[King_Moc]

8GB vs 4GB though... lol.

DDR5 is like 3 x the speed.

 

[ChosenPredator]

damn it's going to be impossible just to not buy both of these systems ..both sound so exciting, I can't wait until they arrive.

 

[JaggedSac]

3gb for Durango OS is clearly incorrect. If it were based off of Windows 8 as everyone is suggesting, applications are placed in memory until that memory is needed, at which point the application is closed and removed from memory. If a non-gaming application is using > 2gb of RAM, they are doing it wrong(at least non-gaming apps that would be on the Durango). Obviously if MS did not set a limit, games would probably always use all 8gb, so MS needs to set an upper bounds so that apps are not always closed and their memory grabbed. 3gb is clearly way too much.

 

[Always-honest]

Bring it, please.

 

[Lime]

Or maybe they are going in a different direction.

Does anyone really want another generation of two 90% identical boxes fighting it out? The HD generation basically boiled down to whether you prefer Uncharted or Halo. How boring.

I hope Orbis and Durango are wildly different.

Hardware homogeneity means easier development meaning more multiplatform titles meaning more players are able to experience the great experiences.

Fuck a fragmented gaming market and fuck wildly different hardware.

 

[Mario007]

8GB vs 4GB though... lol.

DDR3 vs GDDR5 though...lol.

 

[M.D]

Getting really fucking tired of seeing this 100 times per thread about console specs.

Better get used to it.

 

[magicaltrevor]

Hardware homogeneity means easier development meaning more multiplatform titles meaning more players are able to experience the great experiences.

Fuck a fragmented gaming market and fuck wildly different hardware.

This.

It's good to have more than one platform though. Because competition makes sure that all parties stay sharp and focused on innovation.

 

[Man]

I expect plenty of devs to be really thrilled about the DDR5 Ram implementation.