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[velociraptor]

http://cdn2.gran-turismo.com/jp/local/hk-zh/data2/movie/20101225/gt5_ags2010_pv.mov

If GT6 can't make it at or soon after launch, then i'll definitely take something similar in quality to the above movie. That's the only trailer that Polyphony has ever released that runs at 60fps.

Holy shit.

1080p60 GT6 launch for the PS4 plz PD. I'd buy the console for the game.

 

[DieH@rd]

Can someone explain to me what I'm reading and why it's so powerful? I'm just curious, because I remember when the Wii U was hacked and there was an absolute shit storm over it's 1.2 Ghz clock speed, and suddenly the new systems from Sony and Microsoft are 1.6 and are super better? All I'm seeing is more RAM, which will of course smoke the Wii U's, but I'm not sure how everything else is going to result in performance that's so much better.

I'm just looking to be better educated.

WiiU has very old CPU architecture, very slow ram and ~4 year old [small and custom] GPU in a package that can produce games that will eventually get little [noticeably] better than PS3/x360 games. Released in 2012 for a 50$ more than launch X360.

PS4/Durango all have brand new CPU/GPU/memory architectures, all fast and efficient, with great bandwidth speeds in every part of a systems [Durango is limited with DDR3 but it has integrated fast GPU ram] and custom hardware packages for acceleration of some important gaming processes [audio/decompression/physics].

 

[Reiko]

AndyH vs Proelite. Who be the winnar!?

CliffyB. The one who is laughing while reading this thread.

 

[Elios83]

Could that "compute" secret sauce thing in the article be helping with this?

It's just a different architecture.
The Cell has the SPEs which are not traditionally part of a CPU design (they are more like fast floating point units or DSPs) but the traditional and actual CPU core, the PPE, is kinda weak and doesn't support out of order execution.
In PS4 the CPU should be around 10X the Cell's PPE and the Jaguar cores should support the out of order execution. It would be more correct to compare SPEs+RSX shaders performance to the total CUs in the PS4 GPU.
That extra module in the CPU that they're mentioning could just be a customized version of the GPU that it is found in AMD's APUs, basically it would be a GPGPU module and that would basically take the place of the Cell SPEs in the CPU design conceptually. That would explain why dev kits have been based on an APU+discrete GPU and why a few rumors mentioned a dual GPU.
That part of the article is actually the most interesting and new although it's not getting the proper attention.

 

[Karak]

I get the other three, but not the bolded. What is that? Because that sounds like an intangible assumption.

Sorry.
Simply meaning newer versions of cpu's with random efficiencies in all manners.
Think year to year car improvements...when they improve

 

[iamvin22]

i see the wii u only gaffers have entered the thread. this should be delicious.

 

[IrishNinja]

holy balls, looking good so far! i need to see some tech demos/titles to get really hyped but at least they're off to a good start

DF suggested it would be for kinect and apps and the general OS, basically what the 360 has now but way more overboard. They seem to think Sony won't be going for most of that stuff and will leave most of the RAM for raw gaming performance.

yeah, 3GB sounded like kinect and mebbe windows 8 to me, not the right priorities but what ya gonna do

 

[Man]

The DDR5 ram backs up the talk of Sony wanting devs to aim for 1080p@60fps.

 

[RurouniZel]

WiiU has very old CPU architecture, very slow ram and 3 year old [small and custom] GPU in a package that can produce games that will eventually get little [noticeably] better than PS3/x360 games. Released in 2012 for a 50$ more than launch X360.

PS4/Durango all have brand new CPU/GPU/memory architectures, all fast and efficient, with great bandwidth speeds in every part of a systems [Durango is limited with DDR3 but it has integrated fast GPU ram] and custom hardware packages for acceleration of some important gaming processes [audio/decompression/physics].

Ah okay. That makes sense. I'm sadly not the greatest tech person in the world so it's a bit over my head.

Sorry.
Simply meaning newer versions of cpu's with random efficiencies in all manners.
Think year to year car improvements...when they improve

That makes sense too, I get ya. Thanks.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

yea, it is. this isn't a wii situation anymore though, and it's brought itself closer to a PS2/Xbox situation which is far from scary.

If your expecting a PS2 / Xbox situation you are going to be seriously disappointed. The games that will run on Orbis and Durango at these specs will be a generational leap ahead of the Wii U. This is definitely closer to Wii / 360. The gulf won't be quite as bad because Wii U won't look like ass on a HD set anymore but as far as performance and the tech on display its going to be a substantial leap.

 

[Infinite Justice]

Jaguars have their own FPU. It's a big improvement over bobcat, but not sure if bobcats were sharing fpu resources between cores before. Maybe that's a reference to another architecture.



Well, the vg leaks report mentioned custom hardware for audio, data decompression and video...things which would use SPU jobs on PS3. So that helps.

If there's a further 'compute module' per Eurogamer's suggestion, that too could help, sure. But as they say themselves, I'm not sure what the gain would be over devs just using GPGPU (asides, obviously, from sparing the GPU...). We'll see what that thing actually turns out to be. Maybe it's an amalgamation of the hardware vg leaks mentioned or maybe it is something less fixed function.

But with or without any of this stuff, Orbis would have plenty of fp compute in its GPU if devs want that. It's the best place for it to be since a lot of devs end up just using that on CPU for graphics related tasks anyway...

It's just a different architecture.
The Cell has the SPEs which are not traditionally part of a CPU design (they are more like fast floating point units or DSPs) but the traditional and actual CPU core, the PPE, is kinda weak and doesn't support out of order execution.
In PS4 the CPU should be around 10X the Cell's PPE and the Jaguar cores should support the out of order execution. It would be more correct to compare SPEs+RSX shaders performance to the total CUs in the PS4 GPU.
That extra module in the CPU that they're mentioning could just be a customized version of the GPU that it is found in AMD's APUs, basically it would be a GPGPU module and that would basically take the place of the Cell SPEs in the CPU design conceptually. That would explain why dev kits have been based on an APU+discrete GPU and why a few rumors mentioned a dual GPU.
That part of the article is actually the most interesting and new although it's not getting the proper attention.

was asking since it could maybe emulate the cell enough for BC since people are wondering if Orbis will be able to do it.

Should be interesting to see.

...uh huh.

I am going with Andy. Though it goes against what my source said. If this is the same person(Andy) as before. I am going to assume the 2-3 rumors trump month old data.

Try to see if you can get back in contact with your source somehow as that would help.

 

[Spongebob]

I had it from the horses mouth than it was less as well. Don't get me wrong.

But things change. I am a person who questions even his own source. Too many other sources pointing at 3.

I will say this. I think its more likely now to be 3 than less. And that's even refuting my own source. I don't follow blindly but I am hearing even from others thay something has changed. I will find out more over this weekend and then make a conclusion.

When bkilian from B3D was working at MS the OS was 3GB so that figure isn't new.

 

[Jburton]

The difference between PS2 & Xbox had nothing to do with resolution. Both consoles could do 480p and HD.

I never said it did, I said the only thing in the Wii U's favour over the Wii in comparison to the other consoles is the fact that the Wii U is HD and won't look extra shitty on a HDTV like the Wii did.


Not sure what your talking about.

 

[JordanN]

If your expecting a PS2 / Xbox situation you are going to be seriously disappointed. The games that will run on Orbis and Durango at these specs will be a generational leap ahead of the Wii U. This is definitely closer to PS2 / 360

Are you sure you typed that post correctly? Because your example is actually worse than the person who brought up PS2 to Xbox.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I had it from the horses mouth than it was less as well. Don't get me wrong.

But things change. I am a person who questions even his own source. Too many other sources pointing at 3.

I will say this. I think its more likely now to be 3 than less. And that's even refuting my own source. I don't follow blindly but I am hearing even from others thay something has changed. I will find out more over this weekend and then make a conclusion.

Very cool. Can't wait to hear more.

Are you sure you typed that post correctly? Because your example is actually worse than the person who brought up PS2 to Xbox.

Ah crap meant Wii / 360. edited thanks

 

[TheDrowningMan]

This is definitely closer to PS2 / 360

Must troll harder.

 

[UrbanRats]

I tried to read the article, but i really can't say if what they're saying is good or bad (aside from their conclusions).
Is there a dummy explanation in one of these 31 pages? Like the usual Goku power level chart or something.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

That extra module in the CPU that they're mentioning could just be a customized version of the GPU that it is found in AMD's APUs, basically it would be a GPGPU module and that would basically take the place of the Cell SPEs in the CPU design conceptually. That would explain why dev kits have been based on an APU+discrete GPU and why a few rumors mentioned a dual GPU.
That part of the article is actually the most interesting and new although it's not getting the proper attention.

Good thinking.

 

[gofreak]

was asking since it could maybe emulate the cell enough for BC since people are wondering if Orbis will be able to do it.

No, having some similar level of compute power and having the ability to emulate cell are two very different kettle of fish There'll either be Cell hardware in there or that compatibility won't happen, I'm afraid.

 

[DieH@rd]

I tried to read the article, but i really can't say if what they're saying is good or bad (aside from their conclusions).
Is there a dummy explanation in one of these 31 pages? Like the usual Goku power level chart or something.

PS4 and Durango will have great jump in graphics, even if they are not using the absolute high end tech of today. PS4 will probably be more focused on pure gaming and will have better visuals...

But nothing is confirmed.

 

[Ryoku]

Wii U is (iirc) 0.4TF, so if Durango is 1.2TF then that's 3x.

Of course, i've already mentione that teraflops aren't the be all and end all, but that's all we have to go on.

We still don't know anything about Wii U GPU aside from having compute capabilities and its clock speeds. Regarding FLOPS, I reckon the FLOPS rating is somewhere between 350-570 GFLOPS, but that's just my opinion as of now, 570 being on the high end.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

i see the wii u only gaffers have entered the thread. this should be delicious.

I've yet to see them betray a lack of technical nous with such miscalculated hubris. See: "it's the Wii all over again!" or the soon to be legendary "the only difference this time is that the Wii U can output HD so it does not look like a dog on HDTV's.".

Or "this is definitely closer to Wii/360".

Lamentable stuff.

 

[aegies]

My sources pointed to much less than 3GB of RAM occupied by the OS and Kinect, etc. But at this point, things could change. We're actually at a point where small details can change a lot, and Sony having 4GB of RAM means that Microsoft has breathing room to play, perhaps. I have some ideas as to what some of the "secret sauce" might be, but I'm not ready to talk yet.

 

[KefkaPalazzo]

So the PS4 and "720' are going to be very similar in strength? And the Wii U is going lag behind? And people are going to make tired jokes about how many Gamecubes taped together each system is? And be nit picky about certain things Sony and Microsoft's consoles do better than one another?

Well this doesn't sound next gen at all...

 

[zeph1rus]

yeah, 3GB sounded like kinect and mebbe windows 8 to me, not the right priorities but what ya gonna do

Surface Pro has 4GB RAM total and that's pretty much a full W8 install so 3GB sounds sensible when you add in kinect, browsers and any other crap thats going on.

 

[i-Lo]

At this point, from here, it looks Durango is going to be making a replacement media centre PC for around $400. A plethora of non-gaming functionality that merges PC with console and it talks to all connecting window's devices. I wouldn't be surprised if it came with a touchpad screen on the controller.

 

[Valnen]

PS4 and Durango will have great jump in graphics, even if they are not using the absolute high end tech of today. PS4 will probably be more focused on pure gaming and will have better visuals...

But nothing is confirmed.

As long as no games are below 1080p...

 

[Ushae]

Yep, and Sony saw what MS is doing and followed suit.

Orbis could have end up being a 1.5 teraflop machine with 2GB of GDDR5 if MS didn't update their machine.

Both Sony and MS fans should send cupcakes to Dice, Crytek, Epic, etc. We lucked out.

I get that feeling. I had the impression both were aiming at 1.5-2x WiiU .. But their reactive design to each other will only benefit the devs, and ultimately us.

 

[thehypocrite]

Wow, the OS functions for Durango will be off the hook in order to use those 3GB of Ram. How many CPU cores do you need to use them efficiently?

 

[UrbanRats]

PS4 and Durango will have great jump in graphics, even if they are not using the absolute high end tech of today. PS4 will probably be more focused on pure gaming and will have better visuals...

But nothing is confirmed.

Good.
A jump as high as ps2/ps3 or even Xbox/xbox360? Or something less? (diminishing returns and all that).

 

[Globox_82]

Those specifications were correct as of a few months ago. It's nice to see the 2GB max crowd finally change their ways and see the light of the impossible 8GB . What I haven't seen posted yet is that 2 cores and 3GB of RAM will be dedicated to the OS. This information is second hand and months old now though. If true I can see MS using Windows8 or some variant of it as the Durango's OS and making huge advances over the current gen OS. They really want to take over the living room.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39101755&postcount=914

AndyH from 7 months ago, bad ass dude

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

My sources pointed to much less than 3GB of RAM occupied by the OS and Kinect, etc. But at this point, things could change. We're actually at a point where small details can change a lot, and Sony having 4GB of RAM means that Microsoft has breathing room to play, perhaps. I have some ideas as to what some of the "secret sauce" might be, but I'm not ready to talk yet.

According to the DF article though the faster ram is having a larger impact than the amount. Am I right in concluding that your saying the opposite is true here?

 

[thuway]

My sources pointed to much less than 3GB of RAM occupied by the OS and Kinect, etc. But at this point, things could change. We're actually at a point where small details can change a lot, and Sony having 4GB of RAM means that Microsoft has breathing room to play, perhaps. I have some ideas as to what some of the "secret sauce" might be, but I'm not ready to talk yet.

Yes !!

 

[Globox_82]

My sources pointed to much less than 3GB of RAM occupied by the OS and Kinect, etc. But at this point, things could change. We're actually at a point where small details can change a lot, and Sony having 4GB of RAM means that Microsoft has breathing room to play, perhaps. I have some ideas as to what some of the "secret sauce" might be, but I'm not ready to talk yet.

I like how you ignore that it is a much faster ram, but whatever

 

[Reiko]

I never said it did, I said the only thing in the Wii U's favour over the Wii in comparison to the other consoles is the fact that the Wii U is HD and won't look extra shitty on a HDTV like the Wii did.


Not sure what your talking about.

Wii U will look dated.

 

[amstradcpc]

Plus if the article is correct and the Orbis has some sauce of its own, Microsoft must have the sauciest of sauces if it's to overcome .6 tflops coated in Sony sauce.

In B3d are discussing about possible orbis secret sauce being 2 more shader CUs attached to the CPU for GPGPU processing tasks.This would add 200 gigaflops to the 100 gigaflops of the jaguar fpus for a total of 300 gigaflops for the cpu part, near 80 more than cell.

 

[Spongebob]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39101755&postcount=914

AndyH from 7 months ago, bad ass dude

Confirms that the 3GB/2core figure for the OS is old and that the information that Karak got could be the up-to-date information.

 

[Darryl]

If your expecting a PS2 / Xbox situation you are going to be seriously disappointed. The games that will run on Orbis and Durango at these specs will be a generational leap ahead of the Wii U. This is definitely closer to Wii / 360. The gulf won't be quite as bad because Wii U won't look like ass on a HD set anymore but as far as performance and the tech on display its going to be a substantial leap.

maybe if developers work primarily on the orbis and don't port over to durango, but if we're working from durangos specs as a base and then porting over (which would be most likely scenario, from a business standpoint assuming both consoles are atleast mild successes) than i don't believe you at all.

 

[Can Crusher]

If Andy is saying the 3gigs for the OS is real. I am going to go with him versus my source who I haven't talked to in a month.

He mentions the FPU for each core as one difference so I will have to go try to break down the improvement that would offer.

If this is the "same" Andy.

That is terrible news.

 

[i-Lo]

According to the DF article though the faster ram is having a larger impact than the amount. Am I right in concluding that your saying the opposite is true here?

There have been a few members who have insinuated Aegeis is playing for a team. Perhaps it's because he is privy to more if their leaks. 4GB RAM sounds considerably poorer to 8GB RAM if it were the same type. However, that's the omission of the truth.

 

[Reiko]

According to the DF article though the faster ram is having a larger impact than the amount. Am I right in concluding that your saying the opposite is true here?

I think the bandwidth amount of eSRAM could potentially turn out to be a wash if true.

 

[aegies]

According to the DF article though the faster ram is having a larger impact than the amount. Am I right in concluding that your saying the opposite is true here?

No, I'm not. What I'm saying is that if developers can rely on 4 gigs of ram minimum, and a certain speed, minimum, then they'll design around that for launch. They'll look for points of commonality and leverage them.

 

[Jburton]

Wii U will look dated.

Indeed.

 

[Globox_82]

Confirms that the 3GB/2core figure for the OS is old and that the information that Karak got could be the up-to-date information.

good point

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

No, I'm not. What I'm saying is that if developers can rely on 4 gigs of ram minimum, and a certain speed, minimum, then they'll design around that for launch. They'll look for points of commonality and leverage them.

Ah gotcha that makes sense.

There have been a few members who have insinuated Aegeis is playing for a team. Perhaps it's because he is privy to more if their leaks. 4GB RAM sounds considerably poorer to 8GB RAM if it were the same type. However, that's the omission of the truth.

I haven't seen him put anything that seems to be favoring one console over the other though.

 

[McLovin]

...but will it have backwards compatibilty to run PS3 and at least PSX games?

I honestly hope they don't waste any resources on BC. PSN titles maybe, but they don't need to waste their time. BC is that feature everyone wants but nobody uses. Besides if the game is good enough it will most likely get up-ported at some point. Focus on next-gen please.

 

[dragonfart28]

Good stuff.

These consoles need to sell less than $400 or they will fail.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39101755&postcount=914

AndyH from 7 months ago, bad ass dude

7 month ago, and his 2 core 3GB RAM info was second hand and months old at the time? Did he get a more recent update than that?

 

[gaming_noob]

Wii U will look dated.

All will be forgotten when they show gameplay footage of Zelda WiiU.

 

[davious88]

Can someone write something on "additional task-specific hardware" part?

In lame man therms, wtf is it?

Hardware Zlib decompressor/accelerator