Durango is the new xbox, anyway.
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FXAA creator comments on Orbis, Durango
- Thread starter QaaQer
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Durango is the new xbox, anyway.
Death Dealer
Member
I think they'll both have really impressive first party games, but if the difference between Orbis and Durango GPUs is what it seems, I think third party games will be decisively better on Orbis. I mean 18cu vs 12cu plus the memory bandwidth discrepancy seems like a formidable advantage.
Regarding some devs who earlier were confident Durango would be more powerful, I think Thuway said Sony has been steadily upgrading each iteration of the dev kit. Some may have based their early opinions based on thinking Orbis would only have 2GB of ram.
It seems like we do have a good idea of where things are going. All of the latest Durango talk is eerily close to that leaked PDF from last year that called for a next gen xbox with heavy emphasis on motion control/living room integration/non gaming services.
And whoever said it will take too much extra work to make Orbis third party ports look better is incorrect. Those multi-platform engines will easily scale to match each system's capabilities. But casuals won't notice any night and day difference or anything. They'll both be positively next gen compared to PS360.
As had been said a hundred times, the system with the best graphics isn't guaranteed to win the most sales. The games, online services, launch prices, features etc.. together all have more impact.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
The bandwidth just help keep the GPU fed with data, you still need the fillrate to be able to push 2.25x the pixels.
Of course you need of more powerful GPU, GDDR5 is not enough compared to RSX? I don't understand you.
Boss Man
Member
Orbis is the one that's being suggested as more powerful.
Either way, Orbis and Durango are going to be a lot closer to each other than Wii U.
And no, they're not confirmed. I think the only thing we know without much doubt is in fact that these machines are going to be separated from Wii U. It's also probably true that Orbis will be a more capable machine strictly for games. How much more capable? Well, that's what the discussion has been over the past week or two. Personally, I sincerely doubt that it will be enough to break their third party library bond.
Like they were supposed after they launched the 360 right?
The same fanboy hopes are popping up from the last gen. This is funny. The more consoles released the better off for use gamers folks. Or do you guys not realize this?
He was talking about specs in comparison with Durango, not PS3. Orbis will be more than capable of providing next gen visuals at 1080p. He's just saying that there aren't going to be games running at 720p/30 on Durango and 1080p/60 on Orbis.
iamshadowlark
Banned
I hate to say it but raw power wise, the rumored Durango would be closer to Wii U.
Oh well, I'm not refering to this difference, but I think will be a good chance to have 1080p (not 60 fps) in the next gen.
What? Lol, no, absolutely. WiiU is quite close to ps360, but Durango never will be closer to WiiU, the differences are enormous.
Agreed, at least on Orbis 1080p will likely be as or more common than 720p this gen.
I'm sure Crytek would love that.
That's not true. Stop this BS.
Orbis: 1.84TFLOPS GCN GPU, 8 jaguar cores, 4GB GDDR5(176GB/s)
Durango: 1.23TFLOPS GCN GPU, 8 jaguar cores, 8GB DDR3(68GB/s) + 32MB ESRAM(102GB/s)
Wii U: 0.4-0.5TFLOPS R7XX GPU, 3 Espresso cores, 2GB DDR3(12.8GB/s) + 32 MB EDRAM (??GB/s)
Not at all. Durango will still be a generational leap in terms of visuals but some of its power is also going to adding a new level of features and OS management not seen on consoles before. Orbis has more of its power focused on raw visuals. Neither is underpowered, they just have different goals.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Well,
going on what we saw with PS3 and Xbox 360, if I was a developer I would much rather work on whatever platform was the least hassle to work with. And PS3 was very hard to work with despite being more powerful. I would not write it off as being an indicator of anything.
I'm much more interested in seeing if the online portions of these machines will be better. Many online enabled games have short lifespans, with low player counts, player host advantages, communities full of kids, little in terms of value for what you are paying in their subscription, slobby UIs, ads and so on.
That's were I think the battle is won. And I think these things will matter in other, now very-relevant Asian territories like Korea and China.
going on what we saw with PS3 and Xbox 360, if I was a developer I would much rather work on whatever platform was the least hassle to work with. And PS3 was very hard to work with despite being more powerful. I would not write it off as being an indicator of anything.
I'm much more interested in seeing if the online portions of these machines will be better. Many online enabled games have short lifespans, with low player counts, player host advantages, communities full of kids, little in terms of value for what you are paying in their subscription, slobby UIs, ads and so on.
That's were I think the battle is won. And I think these things will matter in other, now very-relevant Asian territories like Korea and China.
iamshadowlark
Banned
The last time I read up on WiiU, the GPU was rated at about 800 GFLOPS. The Durango is supposed to be 1200, the PS4 1800. Do the math.
Death Dealer
Member
How do you figure that ? I think Wii-U is 300 Gflops/s max. Plus its CPU is a joke compared to an 8 core Jaguar. I think it's pretty obvious Orbis takes the cake but Durango is much closer to it than Wii-U, come on !
Wii U's GPU is severely bottlenecked by the CPU and RAM and is a much older, less efficient architecture than Durango and Orbis. It's not even comparable.
Death Dealer
Member
weird double post
EightBitNate
Member
Sarcasm; how does it work?
Hiro_Kunimi_80
Member
Only if you tape together 2 wiiu gpu
Death Dealer
Member
That explains it. Your premise is wrong. Wii-U is much weaker than you supposed.
Not even the most optimistic of Nintendo fans believe this.
I know that you're very biased towards Sony, but at least try not to make it this blatant.
Also why would you only be looking at GPU FLOPS to make that assessment?
BruiserBear
Banned
How many people had HDTVs in 2001-2005?
Not that many, which is why my point stands. For the vast majority of people the Xbox and PS2 were seen as technological equals.
Also, your suggestion that the original Xbox was an HD console is rather absurd. A very limited number of games offered the option of 720p.
Boss Man
Member
All indications are actually pointing to Orbis being that machine this time around from a hardware perspective, not to mention all of the work they've apparently done with their development tools too. At the very least, I don't expect PS4 to suffer from the same set backs that PS3 did on that front.
I'm interested in this going forward too. I think next gen is going to see tremendous progress in these aspects. This is where Durango has its advantage. We pretty much know that Microsoft is going to be pushing the envelope here, and we'll have to see what Sony brings.
Microsoft went into full lockdown months ago with their Xbox Team, it's ridiculous to assume they don't use the same NDAs to protect themselfs from leaking stuff to their competitors. Same for Sony. There were quite a few devs at last years E3 saying they weren't allowed to talk about unannounced platforms.
Let him have his moment. He, and many like him, will have to find something else to say once the games are shown running on Durango. I'm sure it'll be back to "Dem ads, dat Gold fee."
PS3 has a lot of bottleneck compared 360, this is why is more hard to push it to the same level or even more to 360 (& for the transparencies there is no way to catch the edram hit for the poor RSX). Looking to the Orbis, apparently seems not has this problem where Durango shows some bottleneck (DDR3, ESRAM bandwith). This time the situation could be reversed, but we need to see how will be the final specs of the Orbis to be more sure about this.
Perception is not reality. This comment shouldn't even be taken seriously. You didn't need a HDTV to tell which system had better fps, better lighting, and better texturing.
Death Dealer
Member
I believe I've read a single Jaguar core is around as powerful as Nintendo's entire 3-core CPU.
iamshadowlark
Banned
I remember reading it from a supposed dev on B3D, I'll try to find the post. You mind posting your source also? As far as why I chose flops, it's the standard metric from arithmetic computing power, aka raw strength in computer HW.
Also lol at biased. Until these recent leaks, I have said a few times that I was leaning towards Durango based on how it was supposed to be the strongest by some margin.
Based on?That explains it. Your premise is wrong. Wii-U is much weaker than you supposed.
CPU limits. GPU is ok but we didn't know cpu specs until the release & it seems hurt a lot the hardware.
Durango could have multiplats that aren't quite as good looking as Orbis, but it's still a big leap over Wii U.
You look at GPU FLOPS, but also leave aside the CPU and memory differences between the two.
The size of the Wii U's GPU die is 156mm^2 which includes the GPU, eDRAM and other small pieces of silicon. 32MB of eDRAM at 40nm is about 35-50mm^2 leaving about 105-120mm^2 for the GPU. You also have to at the power draw of the Wii U, it draws 33W watts while playing games, leaving maybe 15-20W for the GPU. No 800GFLOPS 40nm GPU has a die size of 120mm^2 and only draws 20W.
Zoramon089
Banned
Considering how much of the CPU and the GPU we still don't know of (which is strange. I guess being a SoC makes it hard to visually analyze...) I'm not sure we can even say this for now
Also,
Aren't you comparing dev kit RAM numbers (for Orbis and Durango) to system RAM (Wii U)?
Where did you read up on the Wii U? notenoughshaders.com?
Also, the CPU and bandwidth gaps are both massive.
iamshadowlark
Banned
No CPU in any next gen console is anything to write home about in the strength category. None will be a big jump over Cell if there's any jump. The power is all in the GPUs and there shaders, which is where I drew my comparison.
Isn't that ColdBlooder's website?
Can Crusher
Banned
He loled at being biased, and is still standing by Durango being closer to Wii U.
Why bother folks?
Why bother folks?
This is true. However, this does not at all make the difference between a ~100 Gflop CPU and a 14 Gflop CPU negligible. There's "nothing to write home about" and then there's "struggling to be on par with a tablet".
but did he actually lol
Death Dealer
Member
The size of its die and power draw. Impossible for it to be as powerful as you suggest.
I would check some of the latest threads at B3D. I know Wii-U is not 800Gflops, I think it's GPU is supposedly around 300 Gflops.
oversitting
Banned
There is orbis in the orbis. Playstation is amazing, orbis. durango sucks orbis. Orbis Orbis. Amazing Orbis. Orbis Wii U Orbis Orbis.
He lol'ed in his heart.
Finally someone that a non-technical person can understand.
But CPU shrinks GPU specs of WiiU, in any case.
Actually it's more of a canyon.
I suppose if we're using the term corridor past the point where it ceases to have any meaning... then yeah, it's a "corridor".
Back on topic,
Oh, so it's worse than PS2 vs. Xbox.
Will we get watchdogs level graphics at launch? 1313? I have heard ppl say we will so if that is the case I am more than happy. Those visuals are more than enough for the first two three years.
Orbis van Kenorbis vs. Durango Bloom?
Lightsaber vs. mundane Saber?
At least MS has the pirates!
I would hope so.
I don't know about you but while those games are pretty impressive I expect much more from "next-generation".
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