Support NeoGAF

[ZaCH3000]

You've never played an Uncharted game, eh? I can't count the "set pieces" in those games because there are a lot.

Again, I'm not seeing how this is special.

Of course I've played Uncharted. Sure, SW1313 is an exact replica of the set piece formula Uncharted ushered in, so maybe that is what makes it underwhelming to you; because its copying the Uncharted formula instead of doing something new.

The graphics while the protagonist climbs the exploding satellite are a generation above what Uncharted has done in 3 key areas. Lighting, special effects, and character models. Image quality can be better, but is still a PC level above Uncharted.

SW1313 is about the average of what we can expect from PS4 and Xbox 3 launch titles. I'm not expecting Agni's level graphics or UE4 level graphics to be the norm until at least a year after launch. A few exclusives from Sony and Microsoft may possibly hit those benchmarks, but 90% of the games developed with PC specs in mind to be ported onto the PS4 and Xbox 3 will fall short of that.

 

[grimshawish]

Holy shit some of you are going to be disappointed.
Watch Dogs is the target and even then...

We'll probably see better games than usual initially. Long gen means theres less to gain from concentrating on current gen games. Though bot the same growth as there is no where near the learning curve as previous gens. Art styles will evolve though so look forward to that.

Thing to watch out for? Performance issues out the gate instead of high fps and native res. But I doubt this will be the case.

 

[i-Lo]

SW1313 is about the average of what we can expect from PS4 and Xbox 3 launch titles. I'm not expecting Agni's level graphics or UE4 level graphics to be the norm until at least a year after launch. A few exclusives from Sony and Microsoft may possibly hit those benchmarks, but 90% of the games developed with PC specs in mind to be ported onto the PS4 and Xbox 3 will fall short of that.

I am with you on that, albeit my estimations are far, far more conservative. Somewhere along the lines of

Spoiler

WiiU x 2.5

which as it is would be a significant jump. Anything else is a surplus for me. I think I had already asked whether people would consider Uncharted/TLoU level of visual fidelity in open/semi-open world games like Fallout, Deus Ex HR, ME etc at 30fps and dynamic 1080p resolution. To my surprise, I was not the only one with that level of expectation.

 

[Vaporak]

I don't care if there's smoke and mirrors to get to a great final result, especially in a console setting. It's just clever coding and optimization.

But it's not clever coding and it's not optimization. It's purposefully limiting what you can do with your game for the sake of running on weaker hardware. You can be okay with that, but call it what it is.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I reckon Watch Dogs and Star Wars 1313 will be launch titles. My eyes drool the wonders some of these devs could do with this extra power; Naughty Dog, Guerilla Games, Polyphony Digital, CD Projekt, 4A games, DICE, R*, Crytek etc.

 

[ZaCH3000]

I am with you on that, albeit my estimations are far, far more conservative. Somewhere along the lines of

Spoiler

WiiU x 2.5

which as it is would be a significant jump. Anything else is a surplus for me. I think I had already asked whether people would consider Uncharted/TLoU level of visual fidelity in open/semi-open world games like Fallout, Deus Ex HR, ME etc at 30fps and dynamic 1080p resolution. To my surprise, I was not the only one with that level of expectation.

I remember you making that comment. I think I called you crazy or something (I didn't mean it). My expectations for next-gen open world games are at least Crysis 1 on Ultra.

 

[Derrick01]

You are misremembering both these games. SW 1313 is on another level, watch_dogs just looks like a high-end PC game.

Until Star Wars shows itself to be more than a game that takes place in 2 person max hallways, Watch Dogs looked more impressive.

Then again Watch Dogs' footage was probably faked by Ubisoft if their recent games are any indication.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Dont understand how this isn't impressive.

I mean the smoke.

Fuck, we need a new Lost game with smoke monster on PS4 lol. I'm sure launch games will look atleast as good as this if not better, especially first party games. I can't wait to see what Sony has in store.

 

[RoboPlato]

Until Star Wars shows itself to be more than a game that takes place in 2 person max hallways, Watch Dogs looked more impressive.

Then again Watch Dogs' footage was probably faked by Ubisoft if their recent games are any indication.

I really hope Watch_Dogs does wind up looking like that tech demo and not BS like the Far Cry 3 E3 demo. 1313 is a game that I think will be OK in the gameplay department, but nothing special.

 

[StuBurns]

SW1313 will be rubbish, it's only notable because it's pretty, and when it's peers are as pretty, it'll be nothing of note.

 

[Can Crusher]

Watch Dogs wasn't just scripted gameplay. Journos say the demo can play out different ways.

Considering it's set in a city, I bet what you saw is gonna be pretty close to what you get. It wasn't just some demo created for E3, it was probably a vertical slice so to speak of the game.

 

[Spongebob]

They'd be better off using all that fancy tech to make KOTOR3.

 

[RoboPlato]

They'd be better off using all that fancy tech to make KOTOR3.

Obsidian developed KotOR 3 on Frostbite 2. BELIEVE!

 

[i-Lo]

Obsidian developed KotOR 3 on Frostbite 2. BELIEVE!

Imagine battle animations akin to FF13 with the established (and perhaps tinkered) battle system of KoTOR.

Rocks will bleed water.

PS: They do need better engineers at Obsidian or hand them the best version of Fronstbite 2.X because Obsidian are not really capable of improving upon base technology.

 

[Derrick01]

I really hope Watch_Dogs does wind up looking like that tech demo and not BS like the Far Cry 3 E3 demo. 1313 is a game that I think will be OK in the gameplay department, but nothing special.

I think in the end it will since it'll be for next gen consoles. I would be astonished if they can't do that game since it seems like that game is going for detail oriented graphic options instead of pure texture bumps. And since it seems like these things will have 4-8gb of RAM it should be easily achievable.

 

[Erasus]

Obsidian developed KotOR 3 on Frostbite 2. BELIEVE!

Dont make me hope!

 

[Wynnebeck]

Obsidian developed KotOR 3 on Frostbite 2. BELIEVE!

 

[i-Lo]

I really hope Watch_Dogs does wind up looking like that tech demo and not BS like the Far Cry 3 E3 demo. 1313 is a game that I think will be OK in the gameplay department, but nothing special.

What happened with FC3?

 

[Eideka]

What happened with FC3?

The E3 build looked noticeably better than the final PC version.

 

[orioto]

Then again Agnis looks better than it and it's only running on 1. So in proportion, Uncharted looks as good as 1313?!

I honestly think there isn't anything better in Agnis. What's more imperssive is that it's directed like a movie with effects and scripted things all over the places, but the models nor textures aren't better than in the Star Wars demo i think.

Obviously they have crazy facial animation techs, but that doesn't mean there are more polys there.

 

[mr_nothin]

Holy shit some of you are going to be disappointed.
Watch Dogs is the target and even then...

We'll probably see better games than usual initially. Long gen means theres less to gain from concentrating on current gen games. Though bot the same growth as there is no where near the learning curve as previous gens. Art styles will evolve though so look forward to that.

Thing to watch out for? Performance issues out the gate instead of high fps and native res. But I doubt this will be the case.

So you dont expect games to look any better than Watch Dogs? Seriously? Really? Remember when people thought FFXIII's 1st PS3 E3 trailer was not doable and that people were getting their expectations up too high?

 

[OryoN]

Of course I've played Uncharted. Sure, SW1313 is an exact replica of the set piece formula Uncharted ushered in, so maybe that is what makes it underwhelming to you; because its copying the Uncharted formula instead of doing something new.

The graphics while the protagonist climbs the exploding satellite are a generation above what Uncharted has done in 3 key areas. Lighting, special effects, and character models. Image quality can be better, but is still a PC level above Uncharted.

SW1313 is about the average of what we can expect from PS4 and Xbox 3 launch titles. I'm not expecting Agni's level graphics or UE4 level graphics to be the norm until at least a year after launch. A few exclusives from Sony and Microsoft may possibly hit those benchmarks, but 90% of the games developed with PC specs in mind to be ported onto the PS4 and Xbox 3 will fall short of that.

The material shaders, and lighting alone, are far beyond the stuff done in the Uncharted series. Then you have other minor improvements like character & facial animation, particle effects, and who knows what else.

We're gonna see a lot of disappointed people shortly, if they think that SW1313 is represents an average of what to expect from launch next-gen games. It's not that the next PS/Xbox will lack the capability, but rather, recognizing that time, budget, and resources will have the most direct affect on how next-gen games will look. This is especially true for launch games.

Games like Star Wars 1313 likely had a significant development head-start than most games that will launch on next-gen consoles. I expect Sony/MicS to reveal some impressive looking stuff for these consoles in the coming months, but I'd be surprised if the more impressive games make it for launch.

 

[Jack_AG]

Of course I've played Uncharted. Sure, SW1313 is an exact replica of the set piece formula Uncharted ushered in, so maybe that is what makes it underwhelming to you; because its copying the Uncharted formula instead of doing something new.

The graphics while the protagonist climbs the exploding satellite are a generation above what Uncharted has done in 3 key areas. Lighting, special effects, and character models. Image quality can be better, but is still a PC level above Uncharted.

SW1313 is about the average of what we can expect from PS4 and Xbox 3 launch titles. I'm not expecting Agni's level graphics or UE4 level graphics to be the norm until at least a year after launch. A few exclusives from Sony and Microsoft may possibly hit those benchmarks, but 90% of the games developed with PC specs in mind to be ported onto the PS4 and Xbox 3 will fall short of that.

Are you blind? There's nothing in that shitty YOUTUBE video that shows a generational leap. Current-gen games look great compared to youtube videos.

The difference between real-time/video is jarring with any title. But i'm calling it like I see it from that video. Nothing impressive. That is either youtube's fault or the game's fault. I see no generational leap in anything. Just more of the same but MILDLY better.

Until you are playing it - you can't say it looks better than it does because - it doesn't from that video.

I blame the video quality, sure. Not denying that - but we can't just pretend that behind all that glorious video compression it looks good. You can't see it so you can't call it. Simple.

Even some of the stills taken look blurry/not crisp - IQ is quite bad. But hey - if you think mud looks good - i'm not stopping you.

 

[oversitting]

Are you blind? There's nothing in that shitty YOUTUBE video that shows a generational leap. Current-gen games look great compared to youtube videos.

The difference between real-time/video is jarring with any title. But i'm calling it like I see it from that video. Nothing impressive. That is either youtube's fault or the game's fault. I see no generational leap in anything. Just more of the same but MILDLY better.

Until you are playing it - you can't say it looks better than it does because - it doesn't from that video.

I blame the video quality, sure. Not denying that - but we can't just pretend that behind all that glorious video compression it looks good. You can't see it so you can't call it. Simple.

Even some of the stills taken look blurry/not crisp - IQ is quite bad. But hey - if you think mud looks good - i'm not stopping you.

you can't see the difference between a huge amount of IQ and you call people blind.

 

[grimshawish]

So you dont expect games to look any better than Watch Dogs? Seriously? Really? Remember when people thought FFXIII's 1st PS3 E3 trailer was not doable and that people were getting their expectations up too high?

Games will look better am just not sure they will be 1080p and 60 fps.

 

[Zoramon089]

So you dont expect games to look any better than Watch Dogs? Seriously? Really? Remember when people thought FFXIII's 1st PS3 E3 trailer was not doable and that people were getting their expectations up too high?

Well the final game wasn't as good as the trailer...it came close to it though, so I guess that's what matters most.

Also I feel like the same people hyped for Star Wars were also hyped for Force Unleashed. How many times are you guys going to fall for what looks like shallow gameplay over a nice graphics/physics demo?

 

[Jack_AG]

you can't see the difference between a huge amount of IQ and you call people blind.

From a crappy video vs playing directly on my TV? Yes - there's a difference and videos look worse.

I take it as I see it - like crap. No video of BF3 does the game justice unless i'm playing on Ultra on my PC. None.

When you can't tell how great IQ, texture work, etc looks due to a crappy video - you dont make shit up saying its amazing - that is flat-out guessing. Until we have better footage/analysis I call a crappy video like I call a crappy video - crappy.

That's all there is to it. That video doesn't impress me. I'm sure it will look better on my TV in glorious 1080p - but for a shitty video - I can't say it will until its in my hands.

Call me blind if you want - i can only comment on what is there and not what I want to see - huge fucking difference.

 

[ZaCH3000]

Are you blind? There's nothing in that shitty YOUTUBE video that shows a generational leap. Current-gen games look great compared to youtube videos.

The difference between real-time/video is jarring with any title. But i'm calling it like I see it from that video. Nothing impressive. That is either youtube's fault or the game's fault. I see no generational leap in anything. Just more of the same but MILDLY better.

Until you are playing it - you can't say it looks better than it does because - it doesn't from that video.

I blame the video quality, sure. Not denying that - but we can't just pretend that behind all that glorious video compression it looks good. You can't see it so you can't call it. Simple.

Even some of the stills taken look blurry/not crisp - IQ is quite bad. But hey - if you think mud looks good - i'm not stopping you.

Hahahaha. Jeez, stop overreacting. You and I are both calling it how we see it, there is no place for insults, and since its subjective, there are no right or wrong answers. My intentions weren't to insult you when I tried to explain away your hyperbole, so I apologize if I did.

I can't understand why your calling me blind when you and I agree that image quality can use upgrades, but to say its as bad as you are saying is an overreaction, plain and simple. Yes, it isn't the image quality I would expect from a next-gen game, however it is better than Uncharted, and the lighting, particle, and fire effects are beyond the current generation, IMO.

 

[Eideka]

Games will look better am just not sure they will be 1080p and 60 fps.

1080p (full HD) ? Highly likely but 60fps will be rare.

 

[grimshawish]

1080p (full HD) ? Highly likely but 60fps will be rare.

1080p should be on Orbis at least.
But even then games will move away from it over the gen I suspect.

 

[beril]

I finally watched the Star Wars video after seeing that gif hundreds of times on gaf; it's really not that impressive. Sure it's ahead of current console in general, and some parts are nice, but if that's all people expect from next gen, those consoles will be in big trouble.

Also the game looks incredibly boring...

 

[les papillons sexuels]

1080p should be on Orbis at least.
But even then games will move away from it over the gen I suspect.

why does 1080p matter? I dont get why people are so tied to resolution and framerate, there are many games that run in lower resolutions that look fantastic.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I'm thinking that this coming generation will be the first one that gets us the approximate "look" of CG from the PS2 era.

Agni's philosophy kind of confirms that. Resembles CG from PS2 era Final Fantasy games.

 

[Jack_AG]

Hahahaha. Jeez, stop overreacting. You and I are both calling it how we see it, there is no place for insults, and since its subjective, there are no right or wrong answers. My intentions weren't to insult you when I tried to explain away your hyperbole, so I apologize if I did.

I can't understand why your calling me blind when you and I agree that image quality can use upgrades, but to say its as bad as you are saying is an overreaction, plain and simple. Yes, it isn't the image quality I would expect from a next-gen game, however it is better than Uncharted, and the lighting, particle, and fire effects are beyond the current generation, IMO.

Alright i'll pull it back a bit, sorry. I'll just chalk it up to personal preference/subjectivenes.

Bros? Bros!

 

[Jack_AG]

why does 1080p matter? I dont get why people are so tied to resolution and framerate, there are many games that run in lower resolutions that look fantastic.

I'll take the playability of a higher framerate over visuals any day. I'd rather my game respond quickly to my actions then run in the mid-teens like Dice seems to like on consoles because who cares how it plays - it has to look good! Unless its a turn-based game it has no business running at anything other than 60.

Sadly I still think we will see 15-30fps be the "standard" this coming gen, yet again.

 

[Hypron]

why does 1080p matter? I dont get why people are so tied to resolution and framerate, there are many games that run in lower resolutions that look fantastic.

Because I don't want all my games looking like a blurry mess, forcing me to sit 3 meters away from my screen. Just compare any recent console release and its PC version, the improved IQ always make the PC version look miles better.

 

[Erasus]

why does 1080p matter? I dont get why people are so tied to resolution and framerate, there are many games that run in lower resolutions that look fantastic.

Have you played 1080p games on PC, or stuff like Wipeout.

So clean ~

 

[mr_nothin]

Well the final game wasn't as good as the trailer...it came close to it though, so I guess that's what matters most.

But we have other games like GOW3 & Uncharted that destroy the visuals in both FFXIII (final game) and it's initial trailer.

Also I feel like the same people hyped for Star Wars were also hyped for Force Unleashed. How many times are you guys going to fall for what looks like shallow gameplay over a nice graphics/physics demo?

But this isnt about gameplay, we're talking graphics here. I can be hyped for 1313 because of it's graphics and wanting to see it on my TV in it's full fidelity but that doesnt mean I'm excited for it's gameplay necessarily.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

Because I don't want all my games looking like a blurry mess, forcing me to sit 3 meters away from my screen. Just compare any recent console release and its PC version, the improved IQ always make the PC version look miles better.

Really, a game running at a slightly lower resultion is a blurry mess now?

Also
1. PC screenshots tend to be downsampled.
2. they often look like someone has thrown butter all over them with stupid mods and additional effects that kill any of the original art. Just look at all the enb mods for skyrim, people seem to want blurry garbage. They think it looks better for some reason.
3. miles better for me isn't defined by a shift in resolution.

I'd rather have a better looking game running at a lower resolution then a worse looking game running at a higher resolution. Half the time I play games in windowed modes so I can ult tab and do other things at the same time. The flexibility of PC gaming is what brings me back to it, not the graphics, or crappy controls.

 

[FourMyle]

SW1313 looks amazing to me and is what I would expect launch next gen titles to look like. Watch_dogs though... I had no idea that game was supposed to be a next gen title until well after E3.

 

[mr_nothin]

Really, a game running at a slightly lower resultion is a blurry mess now?

Also
1. PC screenshots tend to be downsampled.
2. they often look like someone has thrown butter all over them with stupid mods and additional effects that kill any of the original art. Just look at all the enb mods for skyrim, people seem to want blurry garbage. They think it looks better for some reason.
3. miles better for me isn't defined by a shift in resolution.

I'd rather have a better looking game running at a lower resolution then a worse looking game running at a higher resolution. Half the time I play games in windowed modes so I can ult tab and do other things at the same time. The flexibility of PC gaming is what brings me back to it, not the graphics, or crappy controls.

YES.....720, when compared to 1080 is a blurry mess.

 

[grimshawish]

I love how PC games look horrible cause of mods

 

[Can Crusher]

If skyrim on consoles looked like Skyrim with mods on PC, current gen would be called next gen.

 

[beast786]

Remember when we saw this demo in the start of this gen and people were amazed
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=hQzPNFzIAjY&desktop_uri=/watch?v=hQzPNFzIAjY

Same now, I feel we will match or pass all of them

 

[Drek]

The material shaders, and lighting alone, are far beyond the stuff done in the Uncharted series. Then you have other minor improvements like character & facial animation, particle effects, and who knows what else.

We're gonna see a lot of disappointed people shortly, if they think that SW1313 is represents an average of what to expect from launch next-gen games. It's not that the next PS/Xbox will lack the capability, but rather, recognizing that time, budget, and resources will have the most direct affect on how next-gen games will look. This is especially true for launch games.

Games like Star Wars 1313 likely had a significant development head-start than most games that will launch on next-gen consoles. I expect Sony/MicS to reveal some impressive looking stuff for these consoles in the coming months, but I'd be surprised if the more impressive games make it for launch.

I'd expect 1313 and to be comparable to launch 3rd party games, but I have to believe MS and Sony both have significant 1st party projects being geared up for launch that have had kits longer than anyone else and bigger budgets than anyone else.

This Wii U is currently stalled out. It's tablet controller hasn't sparked the same fervor the Wiimote did with casuals and it's price point isn't as appealing to them either. This past generation has gone on longer than any other in recent history, core gaming enthusiasts are starved for something new and that includes PC gamers who've been stuck with console up-ports for a long time now.

The door is wide open for either MS or Sony to come through with a strong first 12-24 months and potentially seize a PS2-like grip on the next generation.

This leads us to the obvious question - What does each of them have in the pipeline?

MS has been tooling up a bunch of new studios with no current gen announcements paired with their existence. Obviously that is their direction (and has to be, since they've shuttered so many studios over the course of this generation).

Meanwhile at Sony:
We haven't seen anything but Festival of Blood from Sucker Punch! since InFamous 2 which came out 6/2011.

Naughty Dog is now two teams, one on Last of Us but the other not doing anything since Uncharted 3 (6/2011).

Guerrilla has already said they're working on a new IP and Killzone 4 has been heavily rumored, so that ties up both their teams with what will likely be at least one launch window game. Killzone 3 was 2/2011, so they've also got the largest window for launch.

Polyphony Digital hasn't done anything since GT5, I'd imagine they're prepping GT6 for as close to launch as possible but it's Polyphony, if it's out within 24 months of launch Sony should be happy.

Evolution has only turned out Motorstorm RC since Apocalypse came out in 3/2011.

Sony Santa Monica is working on God of War: Ascension, but is also a damn big studio at this point and apparently still hiring.

These are just the major studios who have had high profile PS3 releases that we don't have any current projects announced from. It seems very likely that we'll see a launch game from two or three of this list, with a first holiday release from at least a couple of the others. The sheer size of Sony's first party software arm is rather staggering, I have to say.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I'd rather have a better looking game running at a lower resolution then a worse looking game running at a higher resolution. Half the time I play games in windowed modes so I can ult tab and do other things at the same time. The flexibility of PC gaming is what brings me back to it, not the graphics, or crappy controls.

1. It doesn't matter how many bells and whistles a game's graphics have if it's hidden behind a crap resolution.

2. You do know about borderless windows, right?

 

[Zoramon089]

This Wii U is currently stalled out. It's tablet controller hasn't sparked the same fervor the Wiimote did with casuals and it's price point isn't as appealing to them either. This past generation has gone on longer than any other in recent history, core gaming enthusiasts are starved for something new and that includes PC gamers who've been stuck with console up-ports for a long time now.

Are you assuming Nintendo isn't going to release anything else this gen? They'll assuredly have something significant released around the launch of the consoles

 

[Respawn]

That's not true. Stop this BS.

Orbis: 1.84TFLOPS GCN GPU, 8 jaguar cores, 4GB GDDR5(176GB/s)

Durango: 1.23TFLOPS GCN GPU, 8 jaguar cores, 8GB DDR3(68GB/s) + 32MB ESRAM(102GB/s)

Wii U: 0.4-0.5TFLOPS R7XX GPU, 3 Espresso cores, 2GB DDR3(12.8GB/s) + 32 MB EDRAM (??GB/s)

I don't think it works out that way.

PS3 has a lot of bottleneck compared 360, this is why is more hard to push it to the same level or even more to 360 (& for the transparencies there is no way to catch the edram hit for the poor RSX). Looking to the Orbis, apparently seems not has this problem where Durango shows some bottleneck (DDR3, ESRAM bandwith). This time the situation could be reversed, but we need to see how will be the final specs of the Orbis to be more sure about this.

It didn't just a very different architecture.
Poor RSX that gave you games like Uncharted, Killzone, God of War, Grand Turismo, Journey, Heavy Rain etc. Lets give credit where it due. It's 2013 and folks still write this.

 

[nOoblet16]

The E3 build looked noticeably better than the final PC version.

I don't see any difference between these and the final game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLFZVNHPaeM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaGSSrp49uc

YES.....720, when compared to 1080 is a blurry mess.

1080p
720p

1080p
720p

I can't see the "blurry mess" you are referring to (yes it's obviously worse and I'm not saying we shouldn't go above 720p next gen but it's far from being a blurry mess), quality of pixel matter a lot more than quantity. There's another argument about console games being played from a distance so the effect from lower resolution isn't as drastic as it would be if one were playing a game with the screen just a feet away from them. I never play at a non native resolution on my PC if it's hooked up to my monitor because the scaling just doesn't look right even if it's a resolution just a step below 1080p it'll look quite blurry, it's a different case when I hook it up to my HDTV though.

 

[Reiko]

I don't think it works out that way.



It didn't just a very different architecture.
Poor RSX that gave you games like Uncharted, Killzone, God of War, Grand Turismo, Journey, Heavy Rain etc. Lets give credit where it due. It's 2013 and folks still write this.

A majority of graphical tasks were handed off to the SPUs.

Thank the Cell. Not the RSX.