• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

CDPRED: "RED Engine 3 is a revolution in RPGs"

I still need to see what CDPR actually means with "open world" this time, because reading old news on RPG Codex I recently noticed that they announced/described TW2 as "open world" as well, which isn't exactly how I would describe it in retrospective.

Yeah, I thought The Witcher 2 was sort of semi-open world. In that, the areas were often fairly large but to some extent they felt kind of chopped up. So I'm wondering if TW3 will be Skyrim type of open world where its trying to geographically encapsulate a whole country or area in a convincing way.

Maybe we get horses to ride if that's the case.
 

CTLance

Member
Sweet. Looking forward to the next entry in the series.

My TW1 savefile got shredded about two thirds in thanks to a faulty harddrive, and I never really made it all that far in TW2 after my GPU cooler died about halfway through... I do wonder what TW3 will do to my PC.
 
http://www.abload.de/img/redengine-3-duzy-
scre45zw6.png
thanks for the translation.


So to sum up the RedKit Details:
Face and body animation systems
Seamless blending between animations and physics
FP64 light rendering (double precision)
New tiled deferred and/or forward+ renderer with
* Bokeh depth-of-field
* Color grading
* Flares from multiple lights
Faster terrain system with LOD blending and tessellation

The biggest thing IMO is the forward+ renderer. Should allow easier creation of complex material and shaders with fast MSAA while using less memory bandwidth.
The other things are nice as well, should 'fix' the shadow and facial animation problems that stood out like a sore thumb in The Witcher 2.
Does anyone the AMD leo demo?
 

Perkel

Banned
No console games have HDR FP32.


I know it is hard to believe but GT5 does use fp32 hdr. I had this nice comparison made by Polyphony about it how fp32 is better than fp16. It was doc with ferrari in church showing use of fp16 and fp32 hdr.
 
When can we expect a release when it's announced in February? End of 2013?
Probably early 2014 at the earliest. Witcher 2 took over a year from the first announcement trailer, and this being their first open world game there will probably still be some development pains along the way.
 
I cheered out loud when I read forward rendering + and 64bit HDR.

I cried when I saw color grading, oh for fuck's sake.
Here come the monkeys playing legos in the editor shitting up the entire aestethics of the games.
Just take one look at crysis 3 and bf3 to see what a scourge color grading is on games.
 

Perkel

Banned
Probably early 2014 at the earliest. Witcher 2 took over a year from the first announcement trailer, and this being their first open world game there will probably still be some development pains along the way.

Well they created engine from scratch and created Witcher 2 in 3 and half year. Now they have engine ton of experience with it and since engine already was created with open world in mind (streaming everything) it is really only assets creation that could seriously hindered their speed. Even if Witcher 3 is open world game it doesn't mean it will be as big as Skyrim. In may it will be already two full years and by fall 2 and a half year. I expect that it will be late summer-fall release of 2013.
 

Metal-Geo

Member
Without fp32 hdr it wouldn't be look like this: It would be more bloom in your eyes
5240920528_ae2eaacb22_b.jpg
I get what you mean, this is significantly better than that in-yo-face bloom.

Can't ignore the fact it uses gaussian blur for DoF and not bokeh, though. Grrr. :p
 

sflufan

Banned
CDPR hasn't even found a publisher yet for the "theoretical" The Witcher 3.

It's a 2014 release, no doubt about it.
 

Perkel

Banned
CDPR hasn't even found a publisher yet for the "theoretical" The Witcher 3.

It's a 2014 release, no doubt about it.

Well we will know it probably on 5th along with rest of information.

I get what you mean, this is significantly better than that in-yo-face bloom.

Can't ignore the fact it uses gaussian blur for DoF and not bokeh, though. Grrr. :p

Well they already did a ton of amazing thing in their engine to produce probably the best looking game on any system (lately only Asseco Corsa is reaching GT5 level of lightning). All that on old PS3. I can't really wait for Orbis reveal because GT6 is granted to be there or on E3.
 
Probably early 2014 at the earliest. Witcher 2 took over a year from the first announcement trailer, and this being their first open world game there will probably still be some development pains along the way.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there was some release from CDPR a while back outlining their upcoming projects and they didn't have any "AAA" projects slated for 2013, but they had 1 or 2 "AAA" projects slated for 2014. So its likely TW3 in 2014 and maybe Cyberpunk in 2015.
 

szaromir

Banned
I know it is hard to believe but GT5 does use fp32 hdr. I had this nice comparison made by Polyphony about it how fp32 is better than fp16. It was doc with ferrari in church showing use of fp16 and fp32 hdr.
Interesting. I wasn't aware of that. Although playing GT5 it doesn't look like fp32, maybe it's my eye though.
 

Elios83

Member
Can't wait to see Witcher 3 (and I truly hope it will be available on PC/PS4/Xbox720).
But the screenshot they have released looks worse than Skyrim so I'm not sure if they're doing themselves a favour here.
 

Perkel

Banned
Interesting. I wasn't aware of that. Although playing GT5 it doesn't look like fp32, maybe it's my eye though.

Well using fp32 hdr is hard to notice as it kills over excessive halo. But if you take weather with full sun and rather bright color on car like maclaren orange (on mp4) if you know how fp16 looks you will see that this scene would generate excessive amount of shitty bloom halo and it would be hard to notice small details. Instead it generates just small amount of color halo and everything is perfectly visible even in brightest sun. But it is still not full-prof with certain conditions it still can generate shitty halo bloom even if it is fp32.
 
I usually glance over 99% of your posts since, IMHO, you lost any credibility by shitting on everything that's out there but after this sentence, you've hit the new low for me.

Calling The Witcher 2 like that with no argument whatsoever. Why?

CD Projekt RED is one of the most detailed and down to earth devs out there that DELIVERS.

As someone with 20+ years of gaming under my belt (I think you're the same), The Witcher 2 was an outstanding game that gave:

- a deep, mature storyline
- excellent RPG elements & gameplay in general
- maximized the PC potential (you must acknowledge this considering you while against consoles dragging the industry behind) and delivered, IMHO, the greatest PC -> console port ever (X360 Enhanced Edition).

and was, in all, a very "anti-AAA" that most games do these days.
It had excellent (free) DLC support, constant updates and huge effort of perfecting the game, etc. The game was a great "bang for your buck".

I love CDPR because of their interaction with the fans and sticking to what they believe and now best (making great RPG games) , all that from Poland, Europe with no backing of any major publisher and that's why I get irked when the likes of you shit on TW and/or CDPR with no basis whatsoever.

Get off your high horse, "Mr. Accurate".

I usually agree with most of the stuff he says, its not about being on a high horse, he has valid opinions. Considering that the w2 is the better game in terms of graphics, power and some other stuff, the better game overall is still witcher 1 with its story, choices and complete pc interface. I love W2, one of my favorite of all time, but you have to admit, that interface was made with consoles in mind and then the dumbing down of difficulty because of console players didnt help them at all.
 

Chinner

Banned
you need to use bombs with Nekkers and other monsters. If you play on hard that is the only way. But as usual you prefer to play the game in the most boring way and then show it off.

It wasn't until my second play through that I realised that you could actually upgrade your weapon and armour set that you started the game with. The Witcher 2 revolves around spamming one button until you win, and frankly I'm tired of the lack of respect developers are willing to give to gamers. I wish developers would draw more inspiration from RPG titles such as Westwood Studios's Lands of Lore.
 

Perkel

Banned
It wasn't until my second play through that I realised that you could actually upgrade your weapon and armour set that you started the game with. The Witcher 2 revolves around spamming one button until you win, and frankly I'm tired of the lack of respect developers are willing to give to gamers. I wish developers would draw more inspiration from RPG titles such as Westwood Studios's Lands of Lore.

respec is vile shit that should die in fire and should be completely erased from video game history along with level scaling and fast travel.
 

Grief.exe

Member
My hype is now at unprecedented levels.

CD Projekt Red is one of my top tier developers and I cant wait to play The Witcher 3
 

iavi

Member
The 5th can't come soon enough.

Also, lol at them already being on the '3rd' iteration of RedEngine, when only one game has ever used the engine. When you have to compete against Cryengine3 and Unreal Engine4, being only on the second iteration doesn't sound so good, eh, CDPROJEKT?
 
CDPR has done great work so far, but I'm not yet ready to classify them as an elite developer. Both The Witcher 1 and The Witcher 2 (esp. TW1) were very buggy when they were first released. CDPR needs improvement on their ability to deliver a highly polished product Day 1.
 
CDPR has done great work so far, but I'm not yet ready to classify them as an elite developer. Both The Witcher 1 and The Witcher 2 (esp. TW1) were very buggy when they were first released. CDPR needs improvement on their ability to deliver a highly polished product Day 1.
Given the custom engine and the sheer size of the game, which dev do you think would be able to "nail it" day one? IMHO, not a single one.
 

Grief.exe

Member
CDPR has done great work so far, but I'm not yet ready to classify them as an elite developer. Both The Witcher 1 and The Witcher 2 (esp. TW1) were very buggy when they were first released. CDPR needs improvement on their ability to deliver a highly polished product Day 1.

Witcher 1 was their first game. You can't really expect them to nail bug testing right out the gate, especially something that has historically been quite difficult.

Witcher 2 was their first game on their own engine. I haven't had too many issues with it, and its always been fairly optimized.
 

Sentenza

Member
CDPR has done great work so far, but I'm not yet ready to classify them as an elite developer. Both The Witcher 1 and The Witcher 2 (esp. TW1) were very buggy when they were first released. CDPR needs improvement on their ability to deliver a highly polished product Day 1.
To be honest bugs and glitches never bother me too much, both because they are going to be eventually fixed and because they are -to some extent- a given with games that actually try to push boundaries in terms of ambitious design (see: pretty much any cult classic RPG).

Actual flaws in terms of design and mechanics bothered me a lot more in TW1 and TW2.
For a start they need to improve a lot in terms of combat system design.
While TW2 was a clear improvement over the shallow system used in the first game, the new combat system had its fair share of shortcomings and a lot of balance issues on the long run.

I also would like to see a lot more world and NPC interaction.
At cost of being very repetitive, as I already stated in previous threads the world in TW2 felt more like a pretty background than part of the gaming experience.

They should look at what Piranha Byte's people did for Gothic, Gothic 2 and Risen in terms of world design, exploration, NPC interaction, non-linear quest design and solving, etc.
While far less pretty, Khorinos, Harbor Town, the Swamp bandit camp or the monastery felt a lot more alive and organic than Flotsam ever did.
And that's because you were able to speak with (almost) everyone, interact with (almost) everyone (very often in unique ways), sneak, steal, fight, jump, climb, etc.

Sadly, it looks like the opposite happened with Risen 2, with PB going for the simplified way rather than playing on their strengths.
 

tkscz

Member
Serious question, how often is it a developer mentions how their new engine will affect gameplay before graphics?
 
It's not a bad game, it's just...compared to the level of hype they receive as a result of being cheerleaders for a PC audience who feel marginalised, they don't deliver.

Look at its competition...
That is why it's popular, the bar is set so incredibly fucking low by other WRPGS that witcher looks like the second coming of christ in comparison.

CDPR really nailed use of color in both games though, witcher 1 often looks like a painting, everything looks warm and beautiful and vibrant without being uncanny or out of place.
The art in the first game is really REALLY good.
With the advent of color grading every dev seems to have fired any capable artists they had and hired idiots who twiddle some knobs in the engine instead of putting thought into creating something that looks good and coherent.

CDPR have way better artists than the competition, the story is better written and more coherent, the dialog isn't 'save the puppy good vs rape the puppy dead evil'

There is a whole lot that could be better about witcher 1 and 2, but again, compared to the trash that goes for WRPGS today it's a breath of fresh air.

Also: yes the interface in witcher 2 is dogshit.
Now they are talking about huge marketing budgets, they are going after consoles etc so history has proven that they are on the path to becoming another bioware/dice/ubisoft/crytek

I have absolutely zero expectations for witcher 3 (highly skeptical until I see how it turns out) despite their attempts at lip service, but that doesn't change that witcher 1was a very good rpg (story, art, music, world, you know the things that make an rpg an rpg) and that the second game is pretty and pretty good as well.
 
What in that screenshots screams "AMAZING NEW ENGINE!!!!"??

I don't see anything in that screen that couldn't have been done with RedEngine2.


Don't get me wrong, I am super excited for anything they are doing and a new engine will be awesome I'm just puzzled at their choice of screenshot to announce it.
 
What in that screenshots screams "AMAZING NEW ENGINE!!!!"??

I don't see anything in that screen that couldn't have been done with RedEngine2.


Don't get me wrong, I am super excited for anything they are doing and a new engine will be awesome I'm just puzzled at their choice of screenshot to announce it.

Probably better streaming capabilities to handle an open world ala Elder Scrolls.
 

jett

D-Member
Isn't that screenshot concept art? The boat on the back is literally made of unfinished blobs of paint.
 

Sentenza

Member
What in that screenshots screams "AMAZING NEW ENGINE!!!!"??

I don't see anything in that screen that couldn't have been done with RedEngine2.


Don't get me wrong, I am super excited for anything they are doing and a new engine will be awesome I'm just puzzled at their choice of screenshot to announce it.
I don't know, great art direction, pristine image quality and very clean textures despise being an open world environment, for instance?
And that's even ignoring everything they listed that ins't explicitly shown off in the screenshot, like better physics, better animations, better blending between those, better facial animations and so on.

Jesus, sometimes you people sound completely incapable to set your expectation to reasonable levels.

Isn't that screenshot concept art? The boat on the back is literally made of unfinished blobs of paint.
Nope, it's a in-engine render.
 

Grief.exe

Member
Look at its competition...
That is why it's popular, the bar is set so incredibly fucking low by other WRPGS that witcher looks like the second coming of christ in comparison.

CDPR really nailed use of color in both games though, witcher 1 often looks like a painting, everything looks warm and beautiful and vibrant without being uncanny or out of place.
The art in the first game is really REALLY good.
With the advent of color grading every dev seems to have fired any capable artists they had and hired idiots who twiddle some knobs in the engine instead of putting thought into creating something that looks good and coherent.

CDPR have way better artists than the competition, the story is better written and more coherent, the dialog isn't 'save the puppy good vs rape the puppy dead evil'

There is a whole lot that could be better about witcher 1 and 2, but again, compared to the trash that goes for WRPGS today it's a breath of fresh air.

Also: yes the interface in witcher 2 is dogshit.
Now they are talking about huge marketing budgets, they are going after consoles etc so history has proven that they are on the path to becoming another bioware/dice/ubisoft/crytek

I have absolutely zero expectations for witcher 3 (highly skeptical until I see how it turns out) despite their attempts at lip service, but that doesn't change that witcher 1was a very good rpg (story, art, music, world, you know the things that make an rpg an rpg) and that the second game is pretty and pretty good as well.

Kind of a good point.

Where is their competition for WRPGS?

Pickings are slim.

Skyrim has been so streamlined you can hardly call it an RPG. More like an action game...but with a pathetic combat system.

Bioware doesn't seem to care anymore.

Obsisdian is making an isometric game, going back to its roots.

Ironically, the two best WRPGS of recent years have been from Poland (CD Projekt) and Japan (FromSoft).
 

Viperik

Banned
The Witcher 2 revolves around spamming one button until you win, and frankly I'm tired of the lack of respect developers are willing to give to gamers. I wish developers would draw more inspiration from RPG titles such as Westwood Studios's Lands of Lore.

Er what?

What difficulty did you play in? There are several enemies that will murder you if you just spam one button. The Endrega Queen for one.
 
Even if they can pull this off, I bet the actual combat will still be crummy.

I really enjoyed TW2 for what it was, but I'm on wait and see mode for this. I certainly like the sound of this a concept though.
 

Fezan

Member
I really loved witcher 2 and cdproject can take my money any time.But in retrospective tw2 was somewhat disappointing. The graphics while great had many issues(shadows, non interactive environment etc). The animations were very janky. The game also did not run great. The environment were artistically beautiful but did not match to those of witcher 1 also they were very corridor like.

Finally this is the complaint who only i will be posting they need to tweak the difficulty a bit.
Easy was very easy but medium was very difficult. eg fight when you first fight Letho in jungle the game at once become very difficult at medium he just uses axis on you and you get in animation loop and get hit
 

Perkel

Banned
I really loved witcher 2 and cdproject can take my money any time.But in retrospective tw2 was somewhat disappointing. The graphics while great had many issues(shadows, non interactive environment etc). The animations were very janky. The game also did not run great. The environment were artistically beautiful but did not match to those of witcher 1 also they were very corridor like.

Finally this is the complaint who only i will be posting they need to tweak the difficulty a bit.
Easy was very easy but medium was very difficult. eg fight when you first fight Letho in jungle the game at once become very difficult at medium he just uses axis on you and you get in animation loop and get hit

They wanted hard game from start and their def system is actualy very good. Easy is easy, medium has easy and hard parts, hard is actualy hard for wholle game.

I done game on hard in my first playtrought and i really can't imagine playing without all things from traps to alchemy like some posters said and preaty much all who say it is mash a for awasome didn't play game at all or used easy.

Easy was created to mash A and continue story.
 

CamHostage

Member
Sounds nice and all (and I trust CDprojekt to deliver something cool, Cyberpunk seems it's got really hot blood behind it), but just to add to the technology conversation, I'd really like to hear more about aspects of an engine besides shiny new graphics that'd truly help make these previously-impossible games.

Are you simulating AI on a macro scale or using animation techniques that will ensure varied NPCs? Do you have procedural techniques for texture/model generation and variation that will allow these massive landscapes to be stocked realistically with unique detail? Does your facial animation technology and voice playback system have any means of altering the performance to better fit the setting? What's this engine, or any engine, doing that really changes the way games are made and/or played?

The first company that can show something that evolutionary has my ear. I love a good graphics display, but I'm looking for something like the LucasArts Indy/Force Unleashed demos to really drag me into the next generation.
 

friday

Member
You know a game is good where there is this much heated discussion about it. I can't wait to see what they announce. I am in the middle of playing The Witcher 2 again right now. Wonderful game.
 

Perkel

Banned
Well CDPR said already that they don't see reason why RPG need to have worse graphic than FPS game.

I hope they will release modding tools along side Witcher 3
 

friday

Member
The one thing I want improved most are the boss fights. They are just terribly annoying in the second game.
 
Top Bottom