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VGLeaks: Durango GPU detailed
- Thread starter phosphor112
- Start date
Baconsammy
Banned
Microsoft announced today that they're the exclusive home to the launch of Redbox On Demand (will come to other consoles eventually). So they're definitely not slowing down when it comes to adding more and more services. I know that some people oddly view that as a negative, but it's most definitely a positive.
That is exactly what half the problem is, alot of the people here are more interested in bragging rights than the specs themselves. My only major concern is if kinect is a bundled in item. If it is, that would really make me consider if I jump in next gen.
If Sony bundle in something similar, then I am really f*cked!!!
phosphor112
Banned
Look at this fanboy spin.
PS2:
System RAM: 32MB @ 3.2 GB/s
GPU eDRAM: 4MB @ 48 GB/s
Xbox:
Shared RAM: 64MB @ 6.4 GB/s
--------------------------------------------
Xbox 360:
Shared RAM: 512MB @ 22.4 GB/s
GPU eDRAM: 10MB @ 256 GB/s
PS3:
System RAM: 256MB @ 25.6 GB/s
VRAM: 256MB @ 22.4 GB/s
--------------------------------------------
Let's look at Durango and Orbis.
Durango:
System RAM: 8GB @ 68 GB/s
GPU eSRAM: 32MB @ 102 GB/s
Orbis:
Shared RAM: 4GB @ 176 GB/s
Xbox couldn't compete with PS2 in some aspects BECAUSE the PS2's bandwidth was unrivaled for over a decade. PS3 and 360 only had half of that bandwidth, and that's why ZOE HD collections don't run at 60 fps like the PS2 versions do.
EDIT: Added PS3 and 360, underlined the highest bandwidths for each generation.
1st Course
Member
dat kutaragi wizard magic
The PS2's bandwidth was just insane for the time. Crazy that the PS3 had half the bandwidth of the PS2.
phosphor112
Banned
Just like Nintendo believes in low latency, Sony believes in high bandwidth. They complained about the "low" bandwidth of the PS3 for years. The 360's eDRAM (even at only 10mb) still gave noticeable edge over PS3. Even in this day, multiplats run better on 360 because of the eDRAM.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Yeah. I know I haven't been in this discussion, but there are like 3 or 4 examples where that made any difference with the PS2, because its GPU sucked.
Anyway, this thread has gotten crazy, damn :/
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
PS2 was GOD, wouldn't that effect BC on PS3 thou? keep in mind I have PS2 BC on PS3 before you mention not having it
Ninja Moomin
Banned
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Does Vita have high bandwidth?
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Curious, how much of PS4 available bandwidth would be eaten up by non graphics based code, physics, etc? Sense a lot of the bandwidth will be needed for shaders.
Although the eDRAM is also the 360's achilles' heel at the same time because of its size.
It's worth noting as well that if this truly is what Microsoft has planned, and it's well received by consumers, Sony has no way of emulating it completely with the memory setup they have chosen without significantly restricting the amount of RAM available to games.
Next gen is going to be really interesting.
Oh I hear you. I just don't like random rules applied when the entire thing is conjecture. It doesn't make any valid sense at all to discuss leaked data with gaps and then not be able to discuss all the gaps. But I also hear that this same thing happened in other thread, pre release for other systems like the WiiU. So I am just new to all the random caveats about what can and can't be discussed. This thread is still better than most I have seen in a couple days across the INTERNET about this stuff.
It was the new IP thread where it got really bloody!
It is going to be an interesting year wow.
More like interesting month.
FlyingTeacup
Member
really? I always thought there are a combination of reasons, the flexibility of ram and gpu configuration in 360. For games to run properly on ps3, developers have to offload some gpu tasks to cell.
I find it funny how people are arguing over specs that do not matter in the long run. The era of hardware is over, and software is all that matters right now. The 2 specs are comparable enough that any visual discrepancies will be unnoticed by about 80% of the people out there.
I think if people can play their favorite games, and easily, it'll be fine. The generational leap is already pretty extraordinary. Games will look beautiful on all consoles. Sit back and watch the majesty that will come and bless us all.
I think if people can play their favorite games, and easily, it'll be fine. The generational leap is already pretty extraordinary. Games will look beautiful on all consoles. Sit back and watch the majesty that will come and bless us all.
I'd say less then 40gb/s
phosphor112
Banned
Why do you think PS3 can't play most PS2 games?
The Cell can emulate the emotion engine, but they kept the GS (Graphics Synthesizer) in several PS3 revision because it was needed for BC because the XDR and GDDR3 couldn't provide the bandwidth.
I'm referring to aliasing and alpha issues issues that plague PS3 multiplats.
Remember all those PS3 games with no grass and AA and worse shadows? That's because you need bandwidth for that type of stuff.
Also no way in hell MS will let multiplats be night and day, if it's true that ps4 can do 60fps and next box will do 30fps they won't let that happen. PS4 will just end up with a gimped version.
So yea it will come down to First Party to prove the TRUE strengths of each system.
So yea it will come down to First Party to prove the TRUE strengths of each system.
phosphor112
Banned
Chuck Norris
Banned
There are multiple reasons, a large issue with PS3 titles often having worse image quality, resolution, aliasing etc. is because of the benefits of 360s memory set up
No point in the devs doing more work to make one version worse. If the difference is that prounced then it will show in one way or another
Can Crusher
Banned
This story might even be real.
But the thing is, these specs are probably from the next gen system, the Xbox Tv specs are probably unknown right now.
I think this is where the tech stuff goes over my head a bit (or alot).
When I see the difference of 0.6TF between the two specs and someone says the Wii U is only 0.8TF. I can only comprehend the difference is Orbis having nearly the Wii U's graphics card rammed up its arse.
I know I am missing some form of escalation in the numbers or something but its the only way my mind can work
MS has that much control over 3rd parties?
badcrumble
Member
How would Microsoft prevent that from happening, exactly?
XtremeXpider
Member
Wii U 0.8TF?
Karak
Member
...I am not sure I get this one ?
And even moreso in how it could be used and sampled.
First, Microsoft couldn't stop that from happening
Second, the spec difference isn't even big enough for that to happen
Not talking pure control, but they do have some influence, I think it was posted in one of these next gen threads the whole "if the title isn't on some form of equal playing field as it is on it's competitors then they won't allow it on 360"
Thats a very very ROUGH jist of it so don't take it as word.
Thats what I read somewhere, but then they could of just thrown around alot of technical babble and I probably dived for another shot of vodka and got it wrong
XtremeXpider
Member
You don't know all the clauses when licensing software...
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed
I don't think GPU is 0.8TF.
EDIT: And from Marcan twitter:
Which MS seem to have rectified if rumors are true.
Karak
Member
Righto and it wasn't actually just MS. THey were talking about MS. Sony had the same thing when it came to release schedules if the PS3 version was behind due to dev difficulties. It happens.
Yep.
badcrumble
Member
That was in terms of features, not performance. Microsoft certainly allowed Final Fantasy XIII on the 360, for example, even though its performance was drastically worse.
BruiserBear
Banned
When I first heard Microsoft was planning on 3 gigs for the OS this is exactly what I envisioned.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Yeah, they should try that with the big players like EA, Ubisoft etc. - good luck.
I think Aegies was saying something about a manufacturer(s) enforcing performance clauses to keep things equal graphics wise. The only way this works is if both consoles are neck and neck sales wise.
Vol5
Member
Great post.
It's certainly a converged approach MS are taking, but I have some worries.
Kinect has certain uses and I'm sure K2 will be a big improvement, but how does this translate into a set top box approach? I'm personally not one to start swinging my arms around to move a window across the screen when I can tap a directional button on a controller. If Kinect is used primarily for the features you have mentioned then my biggest worry is they aren't focused enough on straight up games using a good old fashioned controller and in a way are forgetting their core market. Clearly if what you suggest turns out true then they are going for the app approach with multiple instances running in memory.
Now I could be totally wrong here, but if the MS engineers were given the brief of games first / media second, then I'd suggest the specs would be dramatically different because instead of seeing a box that plays games well instead we are seeing a box that does media better / runs Windows well. MS, could, COULD be marginalizing the core with this design and going for the casuals / entirely new market.
I personally hope that isn't true and their primary target is the core gamer.
I can see how that might work as it stands now, but with new consoles comes new customer base. Exclusives are a huge factor in how well a new console does vs. the competition. I can't see MS willingly giving Sony exclusives just because the game looks worse on Durango.
I would have thought neck & neck sales would have the opposite effect. If a big named title like GTA or Final Fantasy had an obvious performance advantage, I doubt a console manufacturer would risk alienating the publisher by getting out a rule book and risk a defection.
It seems to me it would only work with the small fry.
This is off-topic, but I have to ask: Does the PS3 actually have DVR capabilities? And it records and plays back video using the same HDD that games are installed to? Wouldn't this impact the performance of games, especially ones that do a lot of just-in-time asset streaming?
I ask because I've always been skeptical of the Durango-as-DVR idea, due partially to those same (disk contention) concerns. Are they really not an issue? I guess since Sony lets you throw just about any HDD in there, perhaps developers know they can't expect any particular level of performance from them.
For what it's worth, I've been using DVRs since the original TiVo came out in the '90s, and I have been using a whole-house DVR setup (Windows Media Center) for about 5 years. (All "TV" is streamed to various 360s throughout the house.) I also do most of my web surfing on my living room TV. (The afore mentioned WMC PC.) So I'm totally on board with the whole DVR/media hub... thing. I'm happily drinking that Cool-Aid. And yet, shoving all that functionality into one $400 box just seems dumb to me. If you try to do too many things, you risk being crappy at all of them. (IMO) To be fair, it is a cheaper solution, by far.
It seems like MS might be ceding the "hardcore gamer" to Sony, purely on the hope of enticing people with a bunch of functionality that is probably best left to dedicated devices. (Tablets, PCs, and DVR/media-servers)
Or, more likely, perhaps these so-called leaks are not very accurate.
That's not what Microsoft's recruitment pages are saying.
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
I think that MS should really worry about their console specs.. Sony's first party talent made their exclusives look noticrably better on PS3 while the difference in capabilities between 360 and PS3 is negligible. Imagine the difference in visual quality if Orbis is indeed significantly more capable than Durango.
phosphor112
Banned
The same way Nvidia gets developers to cripple their games running on AMD gpus.
That's a bit harder to do when the architectures are essentially identical
XtremeXpider
Member
I'm really sure there are some kind of "agreement" between some thirds and MS/Sony, I read something like this on a pdf from the motorola vs microsoft case.
XtremeXpider
Member
Nintendo magic? Lol, is this something like the "special sauce" of Durango?
Double post! F**k!
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