-Pyromaniac-
Member
it is weird. I used to see a lot of that stupid dubstep commercial with the people singing songs but now that I think about it I haven't seen a wii u commercial in a long time.
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Dice Summit: "nobody talking about the new WiiU projects they started, only canceled"
- Thread starter Pachterballs
- Start date
Even the Dreamcast took over a year to "fail."
Oh it's not official, but I'd just about bet cash money that Mario Kart is what Nintendo is counting on for their fall 2013 killer app. Mario Kart Wii did sell 30+ million copies after all.
On that subject, how's Mario Kart 7 doing?
Conrad Link
Member
Surely the future for Nintendo has to be a console/handheld hybrid.
Something you can have at home playing games on the TV as normal but then 'take away' or play separately on the handheld if you want like a normal handheld.
I don't know exactly how it would work but they wouldn't have split development anymore so all their focus would go on the one thing which means games games games and all the old handheld support they get would double as playable on TV too console releases.
The more I think about it the more I sorta want that now TBH lol.
Something you can have at home playing games on the TV as normal but then 'take away' or play separately on the handheld if you want like a normal handheld.
I don't know exactly how it would work but they wouldn't have split development anymore so all their focus would go on the one thing which means games games games and all the old handheld support they get would double as playable on TV too console releases.
The more I think about it the more I sorta want that now TBH lol.
You could be right but it would really show how Nintendo just can't break out of the mentality that it's all about them. They are a platform holder but express an attitude like they are the only developer on their systems.
God I don't, especially if it means they ditch the dedicated box. It would mean more compromises and lower "power" to meet their handheld requirements. If it happens, it will likely mean we'll get a handheld maybe about the level of Wii U. JOY.
Come on, can you honestly imagine anyone getting hyped for a new Mario Kart with a new Xbox/Playastion just released? It's a fun game but no one buys a $300 console just for it.
Nintendo's best hope is to drop the price agressively and hope for limited availability on MS and Sony's part, so you'll have lots of angry kids getting WiiUs for christmas when they wanted a Durango/Orbis...
a couple quick thoughts
I didn't mind the dubstep commercials, but Nintendo is sitting on a goldmine of nostalgic music that would make everyone under 40's ears perk up. when advertising Mario or even just the Wii U in general, why not use a classic upbeat Mario tune everyone knows? preferably not the world 1-1 theme, but something equally great.
I think some of Nintendo's top franchises have room for growth, commercially. Zelda is already very popular, but the next Zelda will be an HD, larger scale game with traditional controls (probably) that we are told will rethink the fundamentals of the game. If it uses a somewhat familiar (aka Western) art style and scores 9.5's across the board they could have a top selling, system seller Zelda on their hands.
I didn't mind the dubstep commercials, but Nintendo is sitting on a goldmine of nostalgic music that would make everyone under 40's ears perk up. when advertising Mario or even just the Wii U in general, why not use a classic upbeat Mario tune everyone knows? preferably not the world 1-1 theme, but something equally great.
I think some of Nintendo's top franchises have room for growth, commercially. Zelda is already very popular, but the next Zelda will be an HD, larger scale game with traditional controls (probably) that we are told will rethink the fundamentals of the game. If it uses a somewhat familiar (aka Western) art style and scores 9.5's across the board they could have a top selling, system seller Zelda on their hands.
I agree on Mario Kart, it's not a system seller in itself.
but the price drop requests are dumb. the price is right and isn't the reason for sluggish sales. look at the release schedule to see the main problem, throw in bad advertising and you're on the right track.
nordique
Member
i am personally excited for the new xbox and especially the ps4, but for the mass market, you seem to have the opposite idea
if anything, mario kart is a "mega" franchise.
the last console entry sold much more than the top selling ps3/360 games
Calamari41
41 > 38
Why is everybody assuming that Orbis and Durango are going to sell like the Wii circa 06-08? This was the same attitude around here before Vita launched. What if price is the limiting factor in the market right now?
Conrad Link
Member
Nintendo surprised me with Mario 3D and Mario Kart 7 and got them out super quickly when needed, I don't doubt their ability to get this shit out when they neeeed it now too.
I think the new 3D Mario will be out this year for sure, thats my bet.
I think the new 3D Mario will be out this year for sure, thats my bet.
IrishNinja
Member
this needs to stop: Sega was going broke because of nearly a decade worth of decisions, not simply DC's performance. they're not analogous situations.
I have to laugh at the commonly-repeated notion that they're going to be under $400, too. It's adorable, really.
I can see why people are saying Mario Kart could do big numbers but let's be realistic people. Wii U just launched with a new Mario game and that wasn't even enough to stem the decline we're seeing now. What makes you guys think Mario Kart would make a difference in the scale of Durango/Orbis being released in the same time period?
To make an analogy, that's like Sony coming out with a new version of an Xperia phone in the same quarter Samsung puts out the Galaxy SIV and Apple the iPhone 6. It might be a good phone but it's going to be swept aside in the rush for the big phone players. We're going to see the same thing this holiday season unless Nintendo drops the Wii U to impulse purchase range ($250-299).
To make an analogy, that's like Sony coming out with a new version of an Xperia phone in the same quarter Samsung puts out the Galaxy SIV and Apple the iPhone 6. It might be a good phone but it's going to be swept aside in the rush for the big phone players. We're going to see the same thing this holiday season unless Nintendo drops the Wii U to impulse purchase range ($250-299).
1-3, 5 so Basically, the same as every console? The next PS4/Xbox will be the same thing, that's so biased it's ridiculous.
BruiserBear
Banned
They'll both be $400. If they're not they might as well not release them.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
what does "biased" mean in this context
Maybe the basic packs. Maybe.
But the versions worth getting, with the hardware power that's being hinted at.. if they're $400 or under, they'll be taking losses on each unit sold.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
Eh, after seeing how Sony matched 3DS with PlayStation Vita, I think it's a bit premature to say that they'll be over $400. They can price competitively.
At the same time, though, it's also premature to automatically assume a highly successful launch with virtually no problems whatsoever when we haven't even seen the consoles yet.
Nintendo really did mess up a lot of things, though. I'm honestly not sure what they were thinking. The GamePad just isn't the game changer they expected it to be. I don't even think Nintendo can come up with great uses for it. Stuff like Nintendo Land and Game and Wario are interesting, but nothing tells me that I absolutely need this screen in my controller. The fact that the console only supports a maximum of two is also a bit crippling. Off-TV Play is cool, but it matters little to me when I have a TV available for the majority of my time.
Zoe
Member
Since when are the PSBoxes expected to appeal to 5-11 year olds out the gate?
Glorified G
Member
Is it the low powered cpu's that would be found in laptops/tablets or is it the gpu's that would be barely considered midrange in a pc today?
Zenaku
Member
Nintendo won't be dropping the price. That would be corporate suicide for Iwata; he needs to make as much money next fiscal year as possible.
Either way, you're under the assumption that Wii U's launch was terrible. It'll have done around 4 million in about 3 months, if they hit their targets, as opposed to around the 10 million(?) or so Xbox 360 got in its first 12, iirc. If Nintendo can hit 4m with its current line up and releases 3D Mario, MK, W101, Pikmin, WWHD and more likely than not Bayonetta 2/X (they'll need them before March next year) they should have no problem getting another 6m over the next 9 months to beat the 360's opening year.
Nintendo isn't doing as bad as people make out. It's quite surprising with the lack of marketing and the like.
Baconsammy
Banned
The next PS and Xbox will have shitty marketing, no mainstream games and too high of a price? Uh huh. If Microsoft does one thing, it's market the hell out of their products. They won't pull a Nintendo. Mario isn't mainstream? Nintendoland isnt? How about Just Dance, FIFA, Madden, Assassins Creed, Batman? There was plenty of mainstream games at the Wii Us launch. Price was high compared to the competition, yep. My time machine is broken, so I can't tell you what the price of the PS4 or Xbox will be, or what games they'll launch with, but I guarantee you they'll launch with mainstream games. And plenty of them. I have no idea what you're saying is biased given the context of your message.
The 360 came out on the heels of a last place console and sold pretty well its first year. It had the market to itself, just like Nintendo has the "next gen" market to itself right now, but they're coming off one of the most successful console generations anyone's ever had. To have to reduce their sales estimates a mere 2 months into the lifecycle is kind of the definition of "doing as bad as people make out".
JaseMath
Member
I think he's referring to walking's assertion that launch growing pains are exclusive only to Nintendo console launches even though every bullet point could be easily attributed to any other launch.
Given SCEA's terrible PS3 and Vita marketing, I could see the PS4 marketing being pretty bad at launch. Will have to see what this new ad agency does with Vita in the near future.
Based on what? Cause it's not previous launches that's for sure. Sony don't even have any 'mainstream' games, they'll need to rely on 3rd parties. MS have Halo, but it won't be around at launch.
Baconsammy
Banned
In the US perhaps. As far as the core gamers go, I think they're already creating a ton of buzz for the launch, and we're still numerous months away. Feb 20th is going to be huge (in theory). All Nintendo did in their build up to the Wii U's release was leave tons of unanswered questions. We had absolutely no idea what we were actually getting until release day. I doubt Sony lets that happen. I can't blame you for not having faith given their recent history, but it sure feels to me like something is different this time. Maybe I'm a sucker.
Based on the fact that EA and Activision love to show up at console launches. Just like they did with the Wii U. Third parties have been anticipating these releases for a long time. How many of them show up at launch is a mystery, but I suspect it will dwarf the Wii U's tepid launch at retail and on PSN/XBLA.
Impact wasn't the question. Availability of titles was.
So basically up ports of CoD/Fifa/Madden? Yeah, that's going to make a huge impact.
Zenaku
Member
So it's only selling at 80% of the speed they thought it would, what's the big deal? It's still selling well despite the poor line-up and marketing, both of which can only get better with time.
I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo purposefully halted their marketing so they can market big later in the year, when the games are there.
I agree...but less extremely. $400 is certainly the magic number, and I think at least one of the two will hit it. Microsoft can afford to take losses, and Sony seems to be using a basic controller, so they could also hit it.
But I agree people are in for a rude awakening if they expect both consoles to fly off the shelves. The economy is rough and both companies are vying for the same audience.
I generally agree with you, but this time I have to call you out. When has MS EVER marketed anything good? Have you seen the Win8 commercials? No? How about those great Kin and Surface Commercials? Oh no? Oh I know, maybe you remember the great windows Phone commercials and how it's lighting up the place!?
Or how about the sony Vita marketing or those great PSP ads! Oh no? Right... Let's not act like any of these companies don't have really... questionable marketing practices rather recently. And the 360 did so so it's first year, had a middling launch line up other than one, maybe two games, and still went on to be praised. Go on, go back check the reviews, the forums.
Point is Nintendo definitely dropped the ball but its far from game over, and far from the other two magically not doing what they've historically done; have some crazy, goofy advertising.
To me, the PS4 talk/hype is similar to that of Vita around or just before launch. Even with Sony hardly pushing it outside of the early 3G bundle release, the system sold and then fell into oblivion soon after. PS4 will be different being a home console, but pre-launch marketing will play a major role in getting people excited. Feb. 20 and E3 will not be enough -- especially not E3 when Sony will be going against MS.
Baconsammy
Banned
Your math is bad. They reduced the estimate by 27.5%. Or 1.5 million consoles. I also disagree with the notion that they pulled their marketing. I believe combined with the lofty estimates they had, they believed anything they shipped would sell immediately, no marketing required.
Kinect. Xbox. Halo. Gears. etc Pretty much everything related to their games division gets pimped incredibly well. Even Alan Wake had a whole web series associated with it. They didnt market Kin. That thing was sent to die. They're marketing the shit out of Windows Phone, Windows 8, and Surface. Whether it works or not is irrelevant, the point is they're doing it.
It's hard to argue with that.
if we really wanted we could look at all the usual suspects and determine roughly how may games might be in development for Orbis and Durango, based on past development, when their last game was, and developer comments. I'm guessing the number won't be especially high. many people on here seem to have the idea that both consoles will be flooded with games and will sell gangbusters out of the gate.
bigtroyjon
Member
Vita. Pretty much instantly failed everywhere in the world post launch week. Had games in the pipeline, still has games in the pipeline, had a huge holiday season marketing push but that hasn't changed anything.
I'd argue the original Xbox failed in it's first couple of months too. They were forced to cut the price by a large margin and reimbursed early adopters with free games and controllers to make up with it. Sure it eventually racked up some sales but the writing was on the wall very early on.
A Black Falcon
Member
That's really not true. Because of Sega's dire financial situation due to years of mismanagement and mistakes (and not having as much money as the other major players did to begin with, either, making the problems worse), the Dreamcast was in deep trouble within months of its US launch -- it simply wasn't selling enough through most of 2000 to make it a success. So sure, it took 16 months after the US release until Sega formally gave up, but things were looking questionable from very early on because of how bad Sega's money problem was. They needed the DC to be a huge hit, immediately, or else, and it simply wasn't; people were waiting for PS2, unfortunately.
So yeah, no, that's not a good comparison at all. The biggest problem with the DC was Sega's failing finances (verge of bankruptcy if they stayed in as a hardware manufacturer...). That's one of the key reasons why it failed within months of launch, because Sega could not afford to keep it going. Nintendo, of course, does not have that issue. (A better off company could have kept the DC going long enough to maybe eventually actually profit from it, but Sega did not have that luxury. A couple hundred million dollars of losses total were enough to take them out... contrast that to how MS lost a billion a year on the original Xbox and just considered it the cost of entering the market, and you see how tough Sega's situation was compared to its competitors...)
Baconsammy
Banned
What we do know is they are working on games, and if I were gambling, I'd bet that they weren't making them for the Wii U. With a PS or Xbox, you know you're getting the usual suspects from first parties as well as the best selection of third party games. With Nintendo, your only guarantee is great games from Nintendo (that's not a bad guarantee, mind you), but nothing else is a given.
It's almost as if he doesn't comprehend the audience for PS and Xbox. Up ports of Madden, FIFA and CoD will hold a lot of appeal for a ton of people.
Palette Swap
Member
Actually, see CoD2 and Madden when Xbox 360 released. They were the 2 biggest sellers on the machine and clearly drove NA HW sales.
Zenaku
Member
I thought it was 5m reduced to 4m; I forgot it was 5.5m to begin with, my bad. 4m would still be impressive with the systems current state; their original forecast doesn't change that.
I do believe they've cut down on marketing though. Consoles sold now won't count to the next fiscal year, and Iwata really did imply he may resign if they don't hit their next target. I also expect Nintendo to have putten a few projects on hold to move the development staff to where it's needed, much like they had Retro help them create courses for MK7 to get it finished on time.
This is what I'm worried about. I'm sure Nintendo's 2 Tokyo teams have merged for the time being to push out Super Mario HD. I'm sure Nintendo is sucking in lesser development teams to help with Mario Kart. I'm sure 'X' is in development nightmare stage for Monolith now probably having pressure on them to release. Retro Studios' staff, however, is probably all dead due to expectations. And Zelda's teams are probably stuck in a room trying to decipher what they could possibly do to get a serious hit rather than a unique experience. Ugh
I wish Nintendo would seriously invest in creating some European and United States development studios to lessen the burden.
CoD wasn't available on any other console so it makes sense that people would buy the console for that game. I'm interested in seeing what exclusives they bring and how they do.
Well, it's pretty obvious what the problem is. If you let anyone have the ability to put a game out on your marketplace, that includes letting the people who have no talent put out crap for your marketplace. On the other hand, restrictions to getting onto your marketplace will naturally restrict a developer who has potential, but can't sell their game to the marketplace owner. It's a balancing act where the extremes are Atari 2600 era looseness and NES era restrictions.
I do think Valve is the closest to finding that balance, but they should've kept their curator for their indie games on hand and that Greenlight should be for the great indie games that Valve missed.
Wouldn't surprise me if EA etc consider high end consoles extremely important due to their top tier franchises and the down market. Therefore I can see them putting in some effort to help sell 'next-gen'
shinra-bansho
Member
The 360 sold around 4 games per system at launch in US, among them COD at a 77% attach rate and Madden with a 54% attach rate. So EA and Activision up-ports at launch were probably pretty useful.
On top of that, COD was no where near as big back then as it is now.
It's almost a sure thing that an actual next gen COD will attract many people.
Broken Hope
Member
It's not though, it was selling well before Christmas, it's selling horribly now in all markets.
I see a good number of people say this and it's definitely understandable.
However, what people don't seem to realize is that the economy has been bad for a while now. Back in 2008/2009, the economy was just as bad as it is now; in some areas even worse. $350 back in 2008/2009 is really no different from $400 now (my prediction of what the next Xbox & PS4 will cost).
The economy usually doesn't have that great of an impact on what people buy in terms of entertainment. If anything, people are willing to pay for good entertainment to take their minds off of the problems that they are facing. I mean, look at a good number of the top selling tech devices since 2008, the year in which the economy got bad. The majority of them were (or are) $300+.
So yeah, as long as these new systems are attractive to people, I think they'll be just fine.
Zoramon089
Banned
I'm pretty sure we haven't gotten the January NPD yet...