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[Dark Schala]

I'm curious, in XIII-2, did anyone ever call Lightning by her name? Or did they all just forget she had one?

Even Serah called her by her nickname.

It's like she pounded it into Serah's skull to never ever call her Claire.

 

[Narolf]

Weirder things from Square has happened. I know they are supposed to be separate but whats to stop Wada from making Nomura add a Lightning cameo to it or Nomura doing it himself after all these years?

EDIT: Why is it whenever I post my post looks all lime green-ish?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=513772

 

[dramatis]

That's not really true. She started cold, selfish and uncaring to everyone except Sarah and developed into a decent character. Sure her writing could have been better but that applies to Vanille, Snow, Sazh, especially Hope and some of Fang as well.

Problem with that 'development' is that Lightning quite literally does a 180 in one cutscene with very little buildup. The result is confusion over any actual development.

 

[rataven]

I absolutely do not understand the Lightning/Cloud comparisons. It's baffling. Outside of being the FF prom king and queen, they share virtually nothing in common in their respective games.

 

[suzu]

I liked FF7 Cloud because he made me laugh at times. Even after he had his character revelation, he was still kinda funny, and the conversations in the airship kind of humanized him a little (ie: the chat he had about motion sickness with Yuffie).

I disliked Advent Children/KH Cloud because he made me feel bored. It's like they sucked out everything I liked about him.

Yeah, I totally agree with you.

 

[encephalon]

Most characters prior to FFVIII didn't seem like they had solid personalities to me.

People need to stop saying this.

So that we don't give Square any ideas?

 

[Esura]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=513772

Oh thank god, I thought my eyes was going bad.

 

[WatTsu]

Shake my head at all this Cloud hate. People have totally forgotten what Cloud is like in FF7. He's CLOUD, the guy who rides motorcycles, snowboards, races chocobos, and ruins plays. He starts out arrogant, but quickly moves into being a chill, if self-deprecating guy. People like to say he's Zack, except . . . even in the opening minutes of VII he's nothing like Zack. He's very much his own guy.

SMH at these people who base what they know of FF on what they learned in KH.

I played FF7 at least 3 or 4 times through, as well as Crisis Core, Dissidia, and everything else that prominently features Cloud.

So this is my educated, non-KH influenced opinion: Cloud is the worst protagonist in any Final Fantasy game.

 

[doemaaan]

So okay, for starters here's why I liked Lightning. She was angry, and sucker punched Snow, who I hated instantly. So she was endeared to me for just being on full rage mode, which was nice. But as of XIII-2, she isn't that anymore at all. The anger is completely taken out of her and so she is, as people have said, bland.

But here is why people don't like her:

FFXIII sucked. It really did. It was a waste of great potential. The battle system was a good start toward being fun, and the world was very pretty, but there was nothing to do except march straight to the end. There were hunts, sure, but no sidequests, no minigames, no extra dungeons, no turning left, right, or back. Just forward, always forward.

To top that off, the plot was easily the worst Final Fantasy plot prior to XIII-2. It, like the gameplay, was a waste of potential. Everyone, Snow included, had the potential to be a compelling interesting character. The idea of six losers having to band together to fight a common curse and save the world sounds nice on paper. XIII's plot, typed up on internet forums can sound nice, but its execution left much to be desired.

Now, how does all this fall on poor Claire's head? Well, Lightning has been made into the figurehead for this game. As the facewoman for the game that is so hated, the negative feelings related to how disappointing XIII was (and it was, considering how hyped we all were for it) become attached to her. She's on the cover of both games, Square ASKED US HOW WE FELT ABOUT HER IN A POLL, Toriyama touted her as the only female protagonist of an FF (sleighting Yuna and Terra in the process), and she has been receiving the kind of publicity usually reserved for people like Mario, who you know, have been around long enough to deserve the hype.

It shouldn't be hard to anyone to see why Lightning gets so much hate these days. She's become the symbol of XIII, and XIII the symbol of what's gone wrong in SE in turn. XIII sucked and Square has continued to act as if it was everything it was supposed to be. There's nothing wrong with liking Lightning. As she was in XIII I liked her, too, but people are upset because she's everywhere now and there's no good reason.

I wish I could find the post where I had explained this better.

I'm pretty sure SE keeps promoting her because they know she's a terrible character, part of a terrible set of games. They've gotta even out all of the hate somehow. Plus, what choice do they have? Isn't the reason why they're milking her and the 13 series because of ff14? Before they move on to v13, they have to fix 14 and find a way to keep ff fans "busy". that's how we ended up with two unwanted sequels and a milked saga.

 

[CorvoSol]

I liked FF7 Cloud because he made me laugh at times. Even after he had his character revelation, he was still kinda funny, and the conversations in the airship kind of humanized him a little (ie: the chat he had about motion sickness with Yuffie).

I disliked Advent Children/KH Cloud because he made me feel bored. It's like they sucked out everything I liked about him.

FF7 Cloud was good for these exact reasons. His conversation with Yuffie was really good, and I honestly liked his moment aboard the Highwind where he makes everyone leave and sort their emotions out.

FF protagonists have followed this arc since Cecil, though.

I'm pretty sure SE keeps promoting her because they know she's a terrible character, part of a terrible set of games. They've gotta even out all of the hate somehow. Plus, what choice do they have? Isn't the reason why they're milking her and the 13 series because of ff14? Before they move on to v13, they have to fix 14 and find a way to keep ff fans "busy". that's how we ended up with two unwanted sequels and a milked saga.

I've heard this theory before and I don't believe it for a minute. Square has put out a metric ton of games since XIV, if they wanted to distract us from it, they could have focused on those. They've never needed to do this before.

 

[Narolf]

How.. he's even more meaningless at that point. You can't even appreciate the depth of his relationship to Aerith without knowing Zack's arc.

Perhaps am I just misunderstanding you here, but aren't those two sentences contradicting each other? Shouldn't Crisis Core allow you to get a better grasp of the romance between Aerith and Zack precisely for developing her relationship with Zack?

 

[Narolf]

So that we don't give Square any ideas?

Not to worry, already sent them the end of the script.

 

[toastyToast]

I wonder what GAF's reaction would be if Lightning shows up as the Goddess referred to in FFXIII Versus?

If it was Lightning, Versus would have been released by now

 

[airmangataosenai]

I don't really get it either, the only tolerable character in that cast from my perspective. A calm, collected, and capable woman who gets things done and isn't afraid to speak her mind.

 

[Jeels]

I think she's a quite well designed, but ultimately a horribly written character [at least in XIII, I haven't played the sequel].

She gets worse, despite having significantly less screen time.

 

[I'm an expert]

Perhaps am I just misunderstanding you here, but aren't those two sentences contradicting each other? Shouldn't Crisis Core allow you to get a better grasp of the romance between Aerith and Zack precisely for developing her relationship with Zack?

Assuming you played 7 before CC, you have no way of knowing how much "significance" he really holds through his past with Zack. I'm actually disappointed they didn't put all of that stuff into 7 instead. It seems obvious the majority of that backstory always existed.

Either way, I agree with the poster above, Lightning and Cloud are nothing alike. Lightning is competent.

I'll say I think the localized VA for Lightning (I only played 13-2 in English so that's all I got) was terrible and definitely kills the char.

 

[Stark]

Gaf is teaching me to learn self control. I need an award tbh. I will abstain from answering the haters in here.

This thread is disappointing now.

 

[grandjedi6]

Even Serah called her by her nickname.

It's like she pounded it into Serah's skull to never ever call her Claire.

Claire is such a better name though

 

[MagiusNecros]

GREAT GILGAMESH> Feminine sparkler.

 

[Lain]

And you absolutely had to insult the fans because...?

Because he's that kind of an asshole.

 

[Esura]

Shake my head at all this Cloud hate. People have totally forgotten what Cloud is like in FF7. He's CLOUD, the guy who rides motorcycles, snowboards, races chocobos, and ruins plays. He starts out arrogant, but quickly moves into being a chill, if self-deprecating guy. People like to say he's Zack, except . . . even in the opening minutes of VII he's nothing like Zack. He's very much his own guy.

SMH at these people who base what they know of FF on what they learned in KH.

But Cloud for a good chunk of the game wasn't his own guy. He thought he was an EX-SOLDIER and his persona was shaped by memories he really didn't experience. Doesn't make him any less of a cool character though.

 

[LuuKyK]

This is where your post falls apart. You should practice not replying like a child, in general.

The irony of one being over sensitive about a nomenclature calling people childish. lmao And why are you assuming Im referring to you when I said that? Do you think you fit the mold?

Not a lot of people have said they outright hated her in here.

A lot of people have said, "I like Lightning's design, but I really dislike her _______".

Here. But you visited the other XIII threads. And you know there are haters.

 

[doemaaan]

I've heard this theory before and I don't believe it for a minute. Square has put out a metric ton of games since XIV, if they wanted to distract us from it, they could have focused on those. They've never needed to do this before.

A metric ton of games of the same caliber as ff13? And I'm talking about the FF franchise here. Not the other games that SE publishes, like say, Tomb Raider. V13 bares the FF name and it's been touted as the next big thing for the franchise. How could they move on to that when 14 is so broken. Well, whatever. It IS just a theory, but I do believe that's part of the reason for all of this.

 

[Trigger]

Shake my head at all this Cloud hate. People have totally forgotten what Cloud is like in FF7. He's CLOUD, the guy who rides motorcycles, snowboards, races chocobos, and ruins plays. He starts out arrogant, but quickly moves into being a chill, if self-deprecating guy. People like to say he's Zack, except . . . even in the opening minutes of VII he's nothing like Zack. He's very much his own guy.

SMH at these people who base what they know of FF on what they learned in KH.

Yeah, it's a shame how quickly his character has become pigeon-holed into a lame caricature. In a way, Lightning is more of a female Squall.

 

[Lightning]

Problem with that 'development' is that Lightning quite literally does a 180 in one cutscene with very little buildup. The result is confusion over any actual development.

That was kinda gradual. The big change did come rather sudden but there was slight change in chapters 4 and 5 as well where you could see her softening and doubting her advice and influence on Hope. The main change could have been handled a lot better and a bit later in the game too but that's not a major fault.

She stops progressing almost completely after that big cutscene though, which was sad, it became 100% the Fang and especially Vanille show after that.

 

[Jeels]

Assuming you played 7 before CC, you have no way of knowing how much "significance" he really holds through his past with Zack. I'm actually disappointed they didn't put all of that stuff into 7 instead. It seems obvious the majority of that backstory always existed.

Either way, I agree with the poster above, Lightning and Cloud are nothing alike. Lightning is competent.

I'll say I think the localized VA for Lightning (I only played 13-2 in English so that's all I got) was terrible and definitely kills the char.

I don't know what the rest of the debate you are having is surrounding (haven't read up to the current post count), but Lightning and Cloud are on completely different levels and there isn't even room for comparison.

Cloud is an icon within gaming. Do I like the character personally? Not particularly, but it doesn't matter.

Lightning is utter trash and should be forgotten as quickly as possible.

Yeah, it's a shame how quickly his character has become pigeon-holed into a lame caricature. In a way, Lightning is more of a female Squall.

At least Squall develops. Even if at some points its rather abrupt progression. We can see his thoughts changing in his mind logically as time goes by. Lightning just spins in irrelevant circles of nothingness logically, much like her fans.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Lightning's character basically tried to garner a 2nd Cloud Strife effect only to backfire spectacularly.

And Toriyama thinks she's FF's first female main protagonist.

Lawl.

Reason why this didn't work is because the fanbase is more divisive then ever.

 

[Narolf]

Assuming you played 7 before CC, you have no way of knowing how much "significance" he really holds through his past with Zack. I'm actually disappointed they didn't put all of that stuff into 7 instead. It seems obvious the majority of that backstory always existed.

Sorry but either I'm completely lost in translation here or you're contradicting yourself once more. I mean, why spending time developing that arc if the back-story is "obvious" already? Derp, I feel dumb now. You can appreciate the romance between Aerith and Cloud even while playing FFVII as a stand-alone. Crisis Core is just a plus.

 

[Narolf]

Here. But you visited the other XIII threads. And you know there are haters.

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Here. But you visited the other XIII threads. And you know there are haters.

And Toriyama White Knights. Don't forget those.

 

[LuuKyK]

Lightning's character basically tried to garner a 2nd Cloud Strife effect only to backfire spectacularly.

And Toriyama thinks she's FF's first female main protagonist.

Lawl.

Reason why this didn't work is because the fanbase is more divisive then ever.

She is the first main protagonist. Point me to other female final fantasy character as relevant as her? Who is it going to be? Terra? Yawna?

 

[Narolf]

And Toriyama White Knights. Don't forget those.

They are the worst.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

So okay, for starters here's why I liked Lightning. She was angry, and sucker punched Snow, who I hated instantly. So she was endeared to me for just being on full rage mode, which was nice. But as of XIII-2, she isn't that anymore at all. The anger is completely taken out of her and so she is, as people have said, bland.

Those are exactly my feelings. She was an ok character in XIII and then it as turned into a shitty character in XIII-2 which only rol is to narrate things and talk nonsense.

And people hate her because she was the protagonist of one of the worst FF games made and instead of being thrown to oblivion she was giving an too much protagonist and even a game only for herself.

SE is trying very hard to make her the new Cloud.

 

[Samurai_Heart]

I don't know. Seems like a female cloud, while thats not a bad thing, I don't think it turned out that way. I much prefer the character Noel. Him and Sazh are the best characters from the XIII universe.

....and I would never want to google "Cloud and Lightning" ever again...there are some frightening results....

 

[MagiusNecros]

She is the first main protagonist.

And Warrior of Light had a starring role in XIII series.

 

[I'm an expert]

Cloud is an icon within gaming. Do I like the character personally? Not particularly, but it doesn't matter.

Lightning is utter trash and should be forgotten as quickly as possible.

This makes no sense lol. Cloud's popularity has to do with the timing of his game's release, not the substance of his character.

Sorry but either I'm completely lost in translation here or you're contradicting yourself once more. I mean, why spending time developing that arc if the back-story is "obvious" already? Derp, I feel dumb now. You can appreciate the romance between Aerith and Cloud even while playing FFVII as a stand-alone. Crisis Core is just a plus.

Crisis Core isn't a plus, lol, it's the actual plot of that universe. That plot's not obvious, it wasn't included in 7. Cloud without Zack's backstory is just an empty vessel. There's no reason for the Aerith dating "mini-game". It makes no sense in the universe when you know the backstory. Either way, this is too off topic now.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

She is the first main protagonist. Point me to other female final fantasy character as relevant as her? Who is it going to be? Terra? Yawna?

She seemed almost more like a main protagonist by default...

 

[Raw64life]

Never got the hate myself. I enjoyed her and FFXIII far more than most of GAF did. FFXIII-2 on the other hand I couldn't bring myself to play more than a few hours of. This thread reminded me that I even own it.

 

[LuuKyK]

And Warrior of Light had a starring role in XIII series.

Really now, Magius. Not you with your sarcastic posts again...

 

[CorvoSol]

But Cloud for a good chunk of the game wasn't his own guy. He thought he was an EX-SOLDIER and his persona was shaped by memories he really didn't experience. Doesn't make him any less of a cool character though.

By his own guy I meant he had a distinct personality from Zack's. Even if it was Cloud's interpretation of Zack, the Cloud we see in Disc 1 of FF7 is way different from Zack.

A metric ton of games of the same caliber as ff13? And I'm talking about the FF franchise here. Not the other games that SE publishes, like say, Tomb Raider. V13 bares the FF name and it's been touted as the next big thing for the franchise. How could they move on to that when 14 is so broken. Well, whatever. It IS just a theory, but I do believe that's part of the reason for all of this.

Oh God, no. They'd be bankrupt if they kept putting games of that caliber out. I meant they put out good games.


And Lightning is NOT the first main female protagonist. Even if you subscribe to the completely wrong "Terra isn't the MC in spite of the game paying massive amounts of attention to her, her backstory, her progress towards finding love, etc, etc" there is still Yuna, and Yuna definitely was the MC in X-2, and more important to X's plot than Lightning has been to the entire Lightning Saga.

 

[Replicant]

People need to stop saying this.

But, but.....

If it was Lightning, Versus would have been released by now

See? There's a benefit to having her.

 

[Narolf]

And Warrior of Light had a starring role in XIII series.

Dissidia 012 is FFXIII 1.5.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Also, she is not like Cloud. Not the FF VII original Cloud and way less the sad/emo Cloud rendition from KH/AC or whatever...

 

[MagiusNecros]

Really now, Magius. Not you with your sarcastic posts again...

So Lightning's not a warrior? I knew it.

But, but.....

The Twin Fal'cie Goddesses known as Diva in Type 0 are voiced by Maaya Sakamoto. Lightning and Serah reborn as Orience Goddesses is all but realized.

Spoiler

That would be terrible

 

[Narolf]

See? There's a benefit to having her.

You don't want Versus to see the light of the day?

 

[anaron]

Perhaps am I just misunderstanding you here, but aren't those two sentences contradicting each other? Shouldn't Crisis Core allow you to get a better grasp of the romance between Aerith and Zack precisely for developing her relationship with Zack?

But Cloud for a good chunk of the game wasn't his own guy. He thought he was an EX-SOLDIER and his persona was shaped by memories he really didn't experience. Doesn't make him any less of a cool character though.

He IS his own person though. He's just mixed up on the situation five years prior to VII, thinking his role in the Nibelheim incident was as Zack's.

 

[badcrumble]

She is the first main protagonist. Point me to other female final fantasy character as relevant as her? Who is it going to be? Terra? Yawna?

Yuna is a much, much, much better character, with an actual consistent arc to her. There's not even a comparison between the two of them. I still don't think Lightning sucks, though, she's just unremarkable. She's about as good as Paine, for example - a personality template successfully fulfilled, but not much in the way of complexity or character arc development.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I think the main problem with Lightning is the fact she isn't believable as a human being.

 

[Narolf]

Crisis Core isn't a plus, lol, it's the actual plot of that universe. That plot's not obvious, it wasn't included in 7. Cloud without Zack's backstory is just an empty vessel. There's no reason for the Aerith dating "mini-game". It makes no sense in the universe when you know the backstory. Either way, this is too off topic now.

Your point of view makes sense if it's about the back-story of Genesis, Angeal and Sephiroth, I'll say that.

 

[Replicant]

You don't want Versus to see the light of the day?

You get it all wrong. If Lightning is in Versus, it'd probably be fast-tracked to release by now.