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DF: Orbis vs Durango Spec Analysis

JJD

Member
It's a lot more complex to distribute a product in Europe than in North America. In Europe you have tons of different packaging in various languages, different regulations for each country, lots of different retailers to deal with, different power plugs to manufacture, etc.

Also, the US is the market Sony needs to win back over. Not Europe, and not Japan. The PS4 will do fine there. But I'm sure Sony is doing everything it can to take back the US market.

Distributing on EU only needs one certification process for all members. This has been discussed already and a gaffer who deals with this stuff cleared this out.

Packaging and language are really not and issue. Language translation is done by third parties and they can deliver the required translation on a matter of weeks on different languages.

I might be mistaken on this one, but outside the UK didn't most continental EU countries had compatible power plugs?

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that distributing on the EU across different countries is nowhere as hard as most people think it is.

With that said, I think Sony should prioritize the US market above all others considering it is the one they are doing worse, and the fact that it is the biggest market worldwide.

I'd argue that it would be better to launch on the EU than on Japan first.
 

itsgreen

Member
Distributing on EU only needs one certification process for all members. This has been discussed already and a gaffer who deals with this stuff cleared this out.

Packaging and language are really not and issue. Language translation is done by third parties and they can deliver the required translation on a matter of weeks on different languages.

I might be mistaken on this one, but outside the UK didn't most continental EU countries had compatible power plugs?

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that distributing on the EU across different countries is nowhere as hard as most people think it is.

With that said, I think Sony should prioritize the US market above all others considering it is the one they are doing worse, and the fact that it is the biggest market worldwide.

I'd argue that it would be better to launch on the EU than on Japan first.

That said it just isn't as straight forward as the US market. I believe my Xbox packaging has 13 languages on its back :)
 

madmackem

Member
You guys don't understand just how berserk people and very, very powerful watchdog groups get over potential invasions of privacy here in Germany. Especially older and more educated people, both groups that actually VOTE. There was a months long media war against even detailing how many people live where and what are they doing (student, working, retired, etc) in a database. The airport body scanners are even more reviled and in most discussions referred to as nude scanners except by the people trying to sell them or fight the terrorists that wear c4 vest.

And anything digital or online is thrice suspect.


BF3 was warned against purchasing it on the media since Origin supposedly scans your pc (for cheats/hacks?) and could steal personal data such as tax statements or CC numbers. That DID cost them sales in the pc market.

I can't imagine the PR warchest needed to calm the public and stop them from crucifying the Nextbox as MS's super spying device when people see that a mandatory (?) camera can detect who/how many people are in a room and said camera constantly feeds info to MS servers.

That and illegally blocking used games? The EU judges would love that.


Oh boy.

Yeah the whole thing would be a court case waiting to happen, making things mandatory could also break some eu laws i would think.
 
Gemüsepizza;47826281 said:
I doubt we will see any exclusive support for the new Xbox because of this feature (no used games etc). The publishers will first test how consumers will react and how this will affect sale numbers. They won't underestimate the shitstorm potential after things like this:

http://www.amazon.de/dp/B004M17DVM/

What am I supposed to be looking at here? The 3000 negative ratings? Those 3000 people are going to give low ratings to all next xbox games?

I've talked to non gamers, casual, and hardcore about this, and they all said that they wouldn't buy if it's always online. One in particular said they would unless the Durango was very cheap. Like in the $99 range.

I find this line of thinking utterly backwards. Why does it matter so much to some people?
 
Wanting to actally own and control the stuff you bought is backwards thinking? Where are you posting from? Bizarro world?

My post was in reference to always online, not used games.

Owning and controlling stuff has changed anyway, we're living in an ever increasing digital where people are foregoing physical purchases in favour of streaming or subscription based services, so owning and controlling stuff is subjective and is fast becoming a moot arguing point.
 
Same reasoning can be applied. Say your internet is down, suddenly you can't even play games on your xbox anymore. That's pretty shitty.

I accept the point about having an offline mode and my gut tells me that there will be something in place to allow for such a mode, I just find the comment that they won't buy something that requires an always online connection as bizarre.
 

AOC83

Banned
My post was in reference to always online, not used games.
Me too.

Owning and controlling stuff has changed anyway, we're living in an ever increasing digital where people are foregoing physical purchases in favour of streaming or subscription based services, so owning and controlling stuff is subjective and is fast becoming a moot arguing point.

Not for me, and i´m pretty sure there are loads of other people who don´t like to get fucked either. Property rights > bullshit PR about "changing markets"
 

itsgreen

Member
Me too.



Not for me, and i´m pretty sure there are loads of other people who don´t like to get fucked either. Property rights > bullshit PR about "changing markets"

You do realize that you currently don't own anything when you 'buy' a game...
 

No, You went into a tangent about used games and owning/controller stuff, which wasn't even mentioned in my post.

You made a mistake with your knee jerk response, it's fine, it happens to all of us. Just don't dig yourself in any deeper.

Not for me, and i´m pretty sure there are loads of other people who don´t like to get fucked either. Property rights > bullshit PR about "changing markets"

I hate to break this to you, but this line of thinking is wrong and you're in for hell of a rude awakening, especially with regards to games.
 
I have to remain sceptical about 256bit SIMD units on Durango, it's not a minor change and it calls into question why Jaguar was ever used as a base in the first place. It would also paint Durango as a very imbalanced piece of silicon. 8 stock Jaguar cores is more than enough to feed its underpowered GPU, it simply strikes me as a poor area to waste significant R&D and silicon on.

It's absolutely not something that could be changed late in the game which begs the question as to why it is only coming out now. It had to be a target right from the get go. I know we've shared PMs in the past BG, if you care to clarify that way it would be much appreciated.
 
You do realize that you currently don't own anything when you 'buy' a game...

on the contrary, currently you own the right to resale, at least. some might also say you own the right to back up and copy those titles for personal use i.e.emulation, but that's sort of a gray area.
 

AOC83

Banned
No, You went into a tangent about used games and owning/controller stuff, which wasn't even mentioned in my post.

You made a mistake with your knee jerk response, it's fine, it happens to all of us. Just don't dig yourself in any deeper.

No. his has absolutely nothing to do with used games, but you seem to have problems grasping the concept of property. Hint: If other people decide where/how/if i can play my games they are not really my property.


I hate to break this to you, but this line of thinking is wrong and you're in for hell of a rude awakening, especially with regards to games.

It´s wrong if companies try to take my rights away with ridiculous anti consumer policies and i won´t support this. I´m not an idiot.
 
Honestly, lack of used games is such a trivial issue that we'll all get over shortly after launch if it's dealt with properly. There was no great resistance in the PC space to Steam because people wanted unlimited cloud backups, and no one has ever wanted to hunt out the correct little plastic token to get access to the game they already have installed on their hard drive. Talk about an antiquated and restrictive DRM scheme, give me a one time online activation any day of the week.

Always online DRM is something I can understand the objections to, but online activations is something that is almost a decade overdue in the console space and will be a very welcome introduction when it happens. I was very disappointed that it didn't happen with the Vita as it massively degrades the value of retail releases if they can't be ran from my memory card.
 
Since the very conception of video game consoles. Stuck with a shitty game? We're fresh out of luck.

That's why you use peer reviews. It's not exactly hard to find out which game is shitty and which isn't, it only required patience and for some other poor soul to make the mistake the collective.

No. his has absolutely nothing to do with used games, but you seem to have problems grasping the concept of property. Hint: If other people decide where/how/if i can play my games they are not really my property.

Firstly calm down.

You responded to my post about always online with a retort about used games, I wasn't talking about used games or owning anything, just simply about not understanding why some people are so against an always online device.

You made a mistake, it's fine. Stop digging.

It´s wrong if companies try to take my rights away with ridiculous anti consumer policies and i won´t support this. I´m not an idiot.

So you don't buy anything digitally? You've never bought a blu-ray, dvd, etc? You do know you're not technically allowed to resell those movies right? You're also not allowed to copy the, etc. You might physically own a product, but you don't own the right to use that product as you see fit, that's why they have legal disclaimers making you aware of the rights you do have and the ones you don't.

As I said earlier, you're in for a very rude awakening based on what you're telling me. You have no idea of just little you actually own and what you're legally allowed to do with those possessions.
 

Cartman86

Banned
Same reasoning can be applied. Say your internet is down, suddenly you can't even play games on your xbox anymore. That's pretty shitty.

I agree with you completely that if Microsoft or Sony implement the always online and no used games dystopia described by so many people in this thread then yes that would suck, because so many of us do not have stable internet connections (or more accurately routers). It's a moot point though because it's not going to happen. I will even grant that Microsoft could stop used games and require activation for every game (including physical media), but that won't require you to be connected at all time. You will register once and never have to connect again to play that game on the console you registered on.
 
I have to remain sceptical about 256bit SIMD units on Durango, it's not a minor change and it calls into question why Jaguar was ever used as a base in the first place. It would also paint Durango as a very imbalanced piece of silicon. 8 stock Jaguar cores is more than enough to feed its underpowered GPU, it simply strikes me as a poor area to waste significant R&D and silicon on.

It's absolutely not something that could be changed late in the game which begs the question as to why it is only coming out now. It had to be a target right from the get go. I know we've shared PMs in the past BG, if you care to clarify that way it would be much appreciated.

Given how much trouble the "insiders" have had interpreting Durango specs to date, I would not be surprised if someone just heard the Durango cores can do double pumped 256bit vector operations, looked at the Jaguar specs and saw it only has 128bit SIMD units and assumed this meant Durango's were twice as potent. When in actuality by "double pumped" AMD means it takes the 128bit unit two clocks to complete the 256bit operation and this is a standard Jaguar capability.
 

Cartman86

Banned
That's why you use peer reviews. It's not exactly hard to find out which game is shitty and which isn't, it only required patience and for some other poor soul to make the mistake the collective.



Firstly calm down.

You responded to my post about always online with a retort about used games, I wasn't talking about used games or owning anything, just simply about not understanding why some people are so against an always online device.

You made a mistake, it's fine. Stop digging.



So you don't buy anything digitally? You've never bought a blu-ray, dvd, etc? You do know you're not technically allowed to resell those movies right? You're also not allowed to copy the, etc. You might physically own a product, but you don't own the right to use that product as you see fit, that's why they have legal disclaimers making you aware of the rights you do have and the ones you don't.

As I said earlier, you're in for a very rude awakening based on what you're telling me. You have no idea of just little you actually own and what you're legally allowed to do with those possessions.

To be fair he can very easily get around the law with physical media. DRM with digital not so much. You are purchasing a license, but I think you should be able to resell that license. The entire point of DRM is to combat the very nature of digital content in that it's free to copy and distribute. By all means make sure people can't do that, but at some point I think we need to figure out license transfers. Especially with companies like Valve insisting that games as a marketplace are the future.
 

Maximilian E.

AKA MS-Evangelist
Question about the non used games feature..

In which way would this be different from what is normal in the IOS/Android enviroment?
(Meaning that, all the games you buy are locked to your hardware?)

Because I really don´t see people getting a hissy fit about gaming on IOS/Android regarding this.
Maybe it already has been brought up, I did not see what people thought about it...

(For the record, I understand the point that historically, you always have had the option/possibility to do whatever you wanted to with your own games and that this might be the first generation where gaming is more locked to a specific hardware/Online account)

Im just saying that time have changed and that Apple and their app store-mentality have changed peoples minds or at least, making them accept certain things about how software is handled and nowadays, people seem quite ok with how for example Appstore is treating them, not "owning" your apps or not being able to lend them out to people and such...

It will be quite interesting to see how this pans out and how MS handles this. Personally, all of these are things that will not affect me so much..
I always buy new games, here in Sweden we have good infrastructure regarding broadband and such, my equipment is more or less always connected.. so from my point of view, nothing will really change or I dont see how No used games/always online will affect me negatively...
 

itsgreen

Member
Question about the non used games feature..

In which way would this be different from what is normal in the IOS/Android enviroment?
(Meaning that, all the games you buy are locked to your hardware?)

Because I really don´t see people getting a hissy fit about gaming on IOS/Android regarding this.
Maybe it already has been brought up, I did not see what people thought about it...

(For the record, I understand the point that historically, you always have had the option/possibility to do whatever you wanted to with your own games and that this might be the first generation where gaming is more locked to a specific hardware/Online account)

Im just saying that time have changed and that Apple and their app store-mentality have changed peoples minds or at least, making them accept certain things about how software is handled and nowadays, people seem quite ok with how for example Appstore is treating them, not "owning" your apps or not being able to lend them out to people and such...

It will be quite interesting to see how this pans out and how MS handles this. Personally, all of these are things that will not affect me so much..
I always buy new games, here in Sweden we have good infrastructure regarding broadband and such, my equipment is more or less always connected.. so from my point of view, nothing will really change or I dont see how No used games/always online will affect me negatively...

Well thought about this for a few seconds earlier this morning...

The first thing that popped up was the price difference, 60$ vs 2$.

Another point is that you actually have a physical thing with the game on it, that is why I assume MS is going to say that you can buy cloud games in a physical store, rather than physical games in the cloud..
 
I agree with you completely that if Microsoft or Sony implement the always online and no used games dystopia described by so many people in this thread then yes that would suck, because so many of us do not have stable internet connections (or more accurately routers). It's a moot point though because it's not going to happen. I will even grant that Microsoft could stop used games and require activation for every game (including physical media), but that won't require you to be connected at all time. You will register once and never have to connect again to play that game on the console you registered on.

The optimal solution would be to offer at least two options.

One. Standard gaming, you play from the disc, lose access to install capability, etc.

Two. Standard gaming, you can install the game to the hard drive and not require the disc to be in the drive for verification purposes. This would essentially tie the license of the game to your account and allowing you access at any time but make the disc useless for resale or trade in purposes.

There would of course have to be the option to de-register the game from your console for various reasons like upgrading, etc.
 

jimi_dini

Member
So you don't buy anything digitally? You've never bought a blu-ray, dvd, etc? You do know you're not technically allowed to resell those movies right? You're also not allowed to copy the, etc. You might physically own a product, but you don't own the right to use that product as you see fit, that's why they have legal disclaimers making you aware of the rights you do have and the ones you don't.

Wat?

Of course it's totally fine to sell DVDs or BluRays. Are you kidding? Just look on eBay. If it wasn't legally allowed, there wouldn't be loads and loads of used DVDs+BluRays on there.
 
Well thought about this for a few seconds earlier this morning...

The first thing that popped up was the price difference, 60$ vs 2$.

There's plenty of expensive apps, content and games on iOS/Android/Steam/PSN/XBLA. This has nothing to do with cost.

The average consumer isn't going to have an issue with no used games, because it's already the norm to them.
 
To be fair he can very easily get around the law with physical media. DRM with digital not so much. You are purchasing a license, but I think you should be able to resell that license. The entire point of DRM is to combat the very nature of digital content in that it's free to copy and distribute. By all means make sure people can't do that, but at some point I think we need to figure out license transfers. Especially with companies like Valve insisting that games as a marketplace are the future.

Indeed you can, but you're essentially breaking the terms of usage and the law if you attempt such a thing, which brings me back to my point that you don't really own the item. You might have a disc, but you don't own its content, it's not yours to do with how you see fit. You're essentially licensing the content from the owner of the IP.

I do agree that reselling of licenses should be allowed and the EU has made some inroads with this due to recent rulings against Valve, but even then you're essentially selling something you don't own. You're just selling the license to that content to someone else, which again brings us back to the point about not actually owning a lot of the things we buy.
 

spwolf

Member
Why is it so impossible that the PS4 will launch in Europe a week or 2 later than 'MURICA? Sony seems to be going with off the shelf parts and none of that custom stuff like Cell or EE and even the BR tech has matured a lot by now.

neither of two doesnt seem to be going with off the shelf parts at all... both are custom SOC designs, very different from stock... thats why there are rumors of low yields.
 

Sid

Member
neither of two doesnt seem to be going with off the shelf parts at all... both are custom SOC designs, very different from stock... thats why there are rumors of low yields.
So MS will delay their EU launch as much as Sony?I know that's not the only factor but still....
 
Given how much trouble the "insiders" have had interpreting Durango specs to date, I would not be surprised if someone just heard the Durango cores can do double pumped 256bit vector operations, looked at the Jaguar specs and saw it only has 128bit SIMD units and assumed this meant Durango's were twice as potent. When in actuality by "double pumped" AMD means it takes the 128bit unit two clocks to complete the 256bit operation and this is a standard Jaguar capability.

This is why I'd like to see the source a little more closely, these things can very early be misinterpreted. It just doesn't add up currently.
 

AOC83

Banned
Firstly calm down.

You responded to my post about always online with a retort about used games, I wasn't talking about used games or owning anything, just simply about not understanding why some people are so against an always online device.

You made a mistake, it's fine. Stop digging.



So you don't buy anything digitally? You've never bought a blu-ray, dvd, etc? You do know you're not technically allowed to resell those movies right? You're also not allowed to copy the, etc. You might physically own a product, but you don't own the right to use that product as you see fit, that's why they have legal disclaimers making you aware of the rights you do have and the ones you don't.

As I said earlier, you're in for a very rude awakening based on what you're telling me. You have no idea of just little you actually own and what you're legally allowed to do with those possessions.

This is hilarious.
 

onQ123

Member
I have some logic to run by your guys tell me if I'm off base here.

1) Most people who don't have internet are going to be in the casual demographic.
2) Microsoft has been pushing to gain control of the casual demographic.
3) Forcing online only would severely limit and hurt all progress made toward the casual demographic.

How does it make any sense?

It makes even less sense if you're one of the guys who thinks Microsoft is going Kinect mostly next-gen.

Microsoft might be evil, dirty, greedy and ignorant but I don't think they are this stupid.

casual demographic? do you mean the millions & millions of people who are downloading Temple Run , Angry Birds , Subway Surfers, Ruzzle & so on from the Google Play Store , iTunes & Amazon App store? that casual demographic? nope they wouldn't know a thing about that internet.
 

jimi_dini

Member
It's a grey area but it's not "totally fine" to sell those items as you claim.

Source?

There is first-sale doctrine in US.
And at least in Europe, they can write whatever they like on BluRays, DVDs or games. It doesn't matter because the law doesn't allow them to restrict resale. They could include a line like "you owe Sony 5000EUR after playing this game" and it wouldn't count.
 

jimi_dini

Member
As I said, it's a grey area. There's no one finite source that one can point to and proclaim it as fact.

Wat?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Ctrl-F - "grey" - 0 hits

Selling bootleg copies or pirated copies, that's illegal of course. But that's something completely different.

The first-sale doctrine creates a basic exception to the copyright holder's distribution right. Once the work is lawfully sold or even transferred gratuitously, the copyright owner's interest in the material object in which the copyrighted work is embodied is exhausted. The owner of the material object can then dispose of it as he sees fit. Thus, one who buys a copy of a book is entitled to resell it, rent it, give it away, or destroy it.

And you would even be allowed to make a private copy of movies, CDs or games. The restriction comes from the copy protection. And it's illegal to break it. So for example it's perfectly fine to create your own personal MP3s based off an Audio CD that features the official Audio CD logo. It's also perfectly legal to make a backup copy of old PC games that feature no copy protection on disc (like for example LucasArts adventures or Sierra adventures).
 

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
Things may be different in the US/UK, but if the new Box has always online and the PS has not the box will be dead on arrival in continental Europe, i can guarantee you as much.

? But most European countries have a high penetration of Internet users. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users

As bad as Always Online and No Used Games are, I highly doubt a boycott would be effective. Gaming boycotts rarely (never?) work. They'll all be crawling back when their favorite franchise shows up.

That said, I wonder if the No Used Games thing will be deemed illegal in the EU. What if...No Used Games only applied to the US?
 

scently

Member
This is why I'd like to see the source a little more closely, these things can very early be misinterpreted. It just doesn't add up currently.

So I take it that the source you have said that both consoles are using the same cpu, jaguar cores, with the same abilities, and also gave you there flop ratings yeah? because if all these information were not given to you, and you are not a dev, I don't see how you can say that it doesn't add up.

Personally I have always suspected that the durango cpu is different in capability given the insinuation by an engineer that worked on durango and a comment by aegis. Anyway all will become clear soon.
 
So I take it that the source you have said that both consoles are using the same cpu, jaguar cores, with the same abilities, and also gave you there flop ratings yeah? because if all these information were not given to you, and you are not a dev, I don't see how you can say that it doesn't add up.

Personally I have always suspected that the durango cpu is different in capability given the insinuation by an engineer that worked on durango and a comment by aegis. Anyway all will become clear soon.

This is kind of a straw man argument. You are basically prioritizing one unvarifiable source over another and then saying something doesn't stick because it doesn't conform to your hunch, which is dictated by your quite understandable desire for the Durango to be as powerful as is possible.

The problem for me seems to be that most of the people that seem to be passing on knowledge for both the Orbis and Durango don't seem to fully understand what they are seeing/hearing. Somebody mentioned here that Lherre isn't a technical guy, so even his analysis doesn't seem to me to the final word.
 

scently

Member
This is kind of a straw man argument. You are basically prioritizing one unvarifiable source over another and then saying something doesn't stick because it doesn't conform to your hunch, which is dictated by your quite understandable desire for the Durango to be as powerful as is possible.

The problem for me seems to be that most of the people that seem to be passing on knowledge for both the Orbis and Durango don't seem to fully understand what they are seeing/hearing. Somebody mentioned here that Lherre isn't a technical guy, so even his analysis doesn't seem to me to the final word.

Call it what you want but I choose to believe bgassassin above him simply because a lot of these leaks originated from him. Mind you I actually didn't and still don't conform to all he is saying but I believe his info even if I don't like some of them.

As for llherre not being a tech guy? well I don't know where that's coming from as he has demonstrated enough technical knowledge between his stand on the Wii U, even when people didn't believe him initially (btw you should look at his tag), and his opinion on these nextgen consoles have been shared by other devs ie the EDGE report, which states that we will see another ps360 situation. Even disregarding all that, he is a dev, he has had access to these systems, works with these systems and works for and with people who work with these systems, and somehow, because some poster on these board says that he is not a technical person then I should believe said poster, who is not a dev, does not work for a dev, above llherre? errr......no.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
As I said, it's a grey area. There's no one finite source that one can point to and proclaim it as fact. It's also not a very enforced area outside of illegally copying and distributing content.

You are completely wrong.
 
It's a grey area but it's not "totally fine" to sell those items as you claim.

There's a supreme court decision that's very clear about it.

The first-sale doctrine creates a basic exception to the copyright holder's distribution right. Once the work is lawfully sold or even transferred gratuitously, the copyright owner's interest in the material object in which the copyrighted work is embodied is exhausted. The owner of the material object can then dispose of it as he sees fit. Thus, one who buys a copy of a book is entitled to resell it, rent it, give it away, or destroy it. However, the owner of the copy of the book will not be able to make new copies of the book because the first-sale doctrine does not limit copyright owner's reproduction right. The rationale of the doctrine is to prevent the copyright owner from restraining the free alienability of goods. Without the doctrine, a possessor of a copy of a copyrighted work would have to negotiate with the copyright owner every time he wished to dispose of his copy. After the initial transfer of ownership of a legal copy of a copyrighted work, the first-sale doctrine exhausts copyright holder's right to control how ownership of that copy can be disposed of. For this reason, this doctrine is also referred to as "exhaustion rule."

The doctrine was first recognized by the Supreme Court of the United States in 1908 (see Bobbs-Merrill Co. v. Straus) and subsequently codified in the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 109. In the Bobbs-Merrill case, the publisher, Bobbs-Merrill, had inserted a notice in its books that any retail sale at a price under $1.00 would constitute an infringement of its copyright. The defendants, who owned Macy's department store, disregarded the notice and sold the books at a lower price without Bobbs-Merrill's consent. The Supreme Court held that the exclusive statutory right to "vend" applied only to the first sale of the copyrighted work.

So legally, by buying a physical copy of the game, you are not entitled to resell it, but you are also free to set up a business renting them out if you chose.
 

Durante

Member
Given how much trouble the "insiders" have had interpreting Durango specs to date, I would not be surprised if someone just heard the Durango cores can do double pumped 256bit vector operations, looked at the Jaguar specs and saw it only has 128bit SIMD units and assumed this meant Durango's were twice as potent. When in actuality by "double pumped" AMD means it takes the 128bit unit two clocks to complete the 256bit operation and this is a standard Jaguar capability.
This is exactly what I'm expecting.

It's become clear that the people with access to specs and the willingness to leak them are also the least qualified to interpret them.
 
So I take it that the source you have said that both consoles are using the same cpu, jaguar cores, with the same abilities, and also gave you there flop ratings yeah? because if all these information were not given to you, and you are not a dev, I don't see how you can say that it doesn't add up.

Personally I have always suspected that the durango cpu is different in capability given the insinuation by an engineer that worked on durango and a comment by aegis. Anyway all will become clear soon.

No one willing to discuss this stuff has that level of disclosure. Heck, even developers themselves are often only given part of the picture. That doesn't mean I can't get a good grasp on what is happening as well as being able to assess the viability of certain rumours that don't have the same overwhelming evidence behind them. It is strange that such a dramatic difference hasn't been mentioned until now when it is not such a trivial undertaking and it would have had to have been a part of target specs from the beginning to have been feasible.

It also would mean a very poorly balanced system, which is strange given the fact that Microsoft focused on the GPU this generation and that is what gave them such an advantage in multi platform releases.

That doesn't mean it's not possible, it just makes it one of the less believable rumours floating around. The vast majority of these leaks fit a very set pattern, this one doesn't fall so easily into line.
 

Sorc3r3r

Member
No one willing to discuss this stuff has that level of disclosure. Heck, even developers themselves are often only given part of the picture. That doesn't mean I can't get a good grasp on what is happening as well as being able to assess the viability of certain rumours that don't have the same overwhelming evidence behind them. It is strange that such a dramatic difference hasn't been mentioned until now when it is not such a trivial undertaking and it would have had to have been a part of target specs from the beginning to have been feasible.

It also would mean a very poorly balanced system, which is strange given the fact that Microsoft focused on the GPU this generation and that is what gave them such an advantage in multi platform releases.

That doesn't mean it's not possible, it just makes it one of the less believable rumours floating around. The vast majority of these leaks fit a very set pattern, this one doesn't fall so easily into line.

Could this be a late answer to Sony, in order to get more power from their box?

I'm not a tech guy, so i hope im not asking a very stupid question..
 
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