Angelus Errare
Banned
So does this give you upscaling options and stuff?
Man I'm so happy my launchbox still works. EE+GS up in dis bitch.
Man I'm so happy my launchbox still works. EE+GS up in dis bitch.
So does this give you upscaling options and stuff?
Man I'm so happy my launchbox still works. EE+GS up in dis bitch.
Again, the PS2 bucked the trend, format be damned. People pissed about BC not being in a console are forgetting 20+ years of gaming. The norm, contrary to popular belief, is you buy a console to play that console's games. Anything else is a perk. Even PC is beginning to feel the sting of having "too up to date" hardware. The trend, if we're not being blind cynical ass holes, is remakes. MegaMan X collection, the Super Mario collection on SNES. Plenty of other examples.Uh, the reason nothing else was BC was because they were using a different medium: Cartridges, and they dumped an obsolete format for a new one. DS on Wii isn't even comparable. The situation with PS is different, because every PS has used the disk format, and wouldn't need a new format included to bulk up the console (like say, UMDs on Vita). You shouldn't be able to stick PS1 disks in a PS2 and not play them. Sony believed this then, not so much now.
Its obviously something consumers like too; the best selling consoles, the PS2, Wii, and DS are a testament to this. Plus, I guarantee that many PS3 sells were actually lost with the removal, either because they didn't want to buy it if not BC, or because they ended up buying a used PS3 to have BC.
Again, the PS2 bucked the trend, format be damned. People pissed about BC not being in a console are forgetting 20+ years of gaming. The norm, contrary to popular belief, is you buy a console to play that console's games. Anything else is a perk. Even PC is beginning to feel the sting of having "too up to date" hardware. The trend, if we're not being blind cynical ass holes, is remakes. MegaMan X collection, the Super Mario collection on SNES. Plenty of other examples.
If people want to be bitter with Sony because programers found a way to get BC to work on a jailbroken (is that the proper term?)PS3, go for it. However, save the torches and pitchforks till we know more, or don't because it's actually not that big a deal. I know a guy that found a way to get every SNES game to work on the Wii, including the ones he owns. However, I have yet to see him get enraged that he has to pay for a digital copy if he wants a "legit" way to run the game.
I don't throw a fit that I can't play X game on my PC because it's too new, and that's the same format. Just because the piece of plastic that has data on it fits in a slot doesn't mean I should expect it to work forever in something else it happens to fit in. I should have the expectation for it to work with the device I purchased it to work for.Such a specious argument. The "classic console" norm was established because each console hard to accept completely different cartridges, different media.
They established no precedent. While a cool feature, it was a brand new idea that had never done before (save Atari, and we see how successful that turned out) due to the new console medium, but that doesn't mean one should expect it to work that way for ever. It doesn't even work that way on PC. PS3's can still play PS1 games with no problem. Why should we automatically assume that THIS feature was pulled solely for nefarious reasons? Why is it a huge affront to consumer rights when there are thousands of games out there that have zero abitility to be played today, should you not own the console, by companies that still exist?Once CD-ROMs came into play, when Sony at first put out a DVD-ROM based system (using a drive that could read CD-ROMs) it established the precedent that if the drive could read the media, the system could play the game. And this was true of the launch PS3's reaching back two generations, and to a limited degree the 360 reaching back their one generation.
And then they yanked that shit out. Granted, 3DS plays DS games, but how about them GBA games? Sometimes advertised features of a product change.And even in cases where a new system used new media, Nintendo in particular established precedent for at least one generation of BC in The Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance, DS, 3DS, the Wii, and the WiiU, even if they have to build-in something extra that reads an entirely different cartridge or form of disk media.
Actually no. You can't buy it again, it's not on PSN. You have to use a PS2 or an older PS3. What we found out is that some games work. Possibly all, we don't know yet, with this particular emulator. We do know that some PS2 games are for sale on PSN and they work, but even those games sometimes have issues. The idea that Sony pulled BC simply to fuck over consumers is silly. If that was the truth, I'm sure they would have found a much more creative way to get more money out of it. It could very well, and I know this is hard to believe, they just simply didn't want to deal with it anymore and it was expensive for them to deal with. Who fucking knows?So, here we find out Sont had the capability to unlock this on literally ALL PS3's, but gated it out so they could resell people the media they had already paid for. On a current PS3, if you have an on-disk copy of Final Fantasy 12, you can't play it. You can only play it if you buy it again.
Actually, no. My counter-arguement is that the expectation one should have is that a console game should work on the console they buy. If it works on a different console, that's great, but that's not an expectation you should have. That's all.And in the face of this bullshit, you're counter-argument is that Super Nintendo didn't play NES games.
God damn, you're fucking bitter aren't you. Shit. Yes, Atari did that, and now they don't exist. Seems BC back then, as today, isn't that big of a seller. (that's me being a smart ass) I don't feel that strongly about it. I just think it's unreasonable to be outraged by this particular issue from Sony where there's other things to be frustrated with them, and the industry as a whole, about. Seriously, nobody took your PS2 or your older PS3. There's still plenty of them out there.Well, Atari 7800 played Atari 2600 games, dude. You are just seeing what you want to see in the past to make this apologist argument you, for some reason, feel so strongly about in the present.
Okay.... and now Wii doesn't play Gamecube games, but it can be hacked to do that. Does that frustrate you as much as this issue? Is it really that angering that you can't play a different consoles game on a different console?Again that ignoring of the media. Your friend did not find a way to make legally purchased SNES cartridges work on a Wii. But he wouldn't have to crack anything to make his (at least early model) Wii read Gamecube disks, right?
Okay.... so, what you're saying is, if formats change, you don't expect things to continue to work. That's great, because the format between the PS2 and PS3, while the same shape, are not the same. Neither is the technology. I'm not saying it's not doable, I'm saying it's not the expectation. See PS3 to PS4 BC issues.When PS9 is running off of fucking holocubes, I won't expect to put my DVD-Rom based game in it and have it be read, okay?
Okay, so to be clear, it's not a reasonable expectation to have PS3 games play on PS4. But PS2 to PS3 angers you because it USED to be there? It's not already built in, anymore. It was. They took it out, and they don't advertise it. They're not hiding this. It's not some sort of bait and switch. I'm sorry it's frustrating, but they're not lying or anything.And, for the record, even if you have a point that it is not a reasonable expectation of a consumer to have backwards compatibility built into their console (which I honestly don't think it is for the PS4... for PS3 games...), you're ignoring the fact that our expectations were set by the revelation of the fact that it's already built-in.
They removed a feature and they discontinued advertising it. They did not lie to you. You knew exactly what you were exchanging currency for if you have a newer console. This is not like pulling Linux. There was a feature, and they removed it. They didn't fuck an current consumer of the PS3 over.This is no pie-in-the-sky PS4 thread. This is a thread of outrage that the console had the functionality already in there, but it was gated out so you could be tricked into rebuying content, while bullshit PR tells you BC is just not a reasonable expectation, at the price.
The very same PR line you are spewing right back out onto this forum.
Yes, that sucks. They COULD have done it differently, but they didn't. Instead they said "rebuy it on PSN, or play on your PS2." I don't think that's unfair, just because you used to be able to do it.If the cracked BC hovers at 70-80% compatibility, than it is roughly the same as my 80GB PS3 Fat BC they sold to me after the launches were gone and told me would mostly work--which is pretty shitty, because instead of supporting it by selling me $1 compatibility packs or something they insisted on focusing all their effort on making me buy the game again (or, in actuality, rent the game from their online service for as long as it is up and my PS3 is functional).
Yes, that sucks. Luckily you can buy it to play on your PS2. That wasn't taken from you. It's a shitty situation, but it's not exactly unreasonable for a company to say "you can use our past products with our past products, but in the future we're trying to move away from that."And all this rebuy money just is publisher slush money. It's not like the developers of God Hand got a nice little check. So, the pirates and the publishers get what they want, and the developers get nothing, and the paying customer gets ripped off if they want the convenience of access a built-in emulation program.
Awesome. Not even on any major news sites yet, from what I can see. And sheeple here saying 'What?" What's wrong with that?" Awesome.
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Because it's not major news. Programmers found a way to play PS2 ISOs on a newer system that no longer advertises the ability to play those older games as a feature. Congrats. Guess I'm just one of the poor sheeple marching in tune.
Look, it sucks, I get that. It's not exactly the most consumer friendly practice and could be an issue decades down the road when people want to play these older games and it's just not possible. However, I don't think this is really worth throwing a fit over [I]as it's not an advertised feature[/I]. It was there. Now it's it's not.
Just like Wii, just like the DS. Finding a way to make a product do something not advertised is great, but it's not worth outrage. Save that for servers being shut down for games with online passes. Or, well, anything EA does, in general.
Since I understand that even when things have been simplifying in the recent days, it can be tedious to be moving, replacing, copying ISO files over the USRDIR of the PS2 Classics Placeholder. So, I have a proposed a PS3 homebrew application that when finished will allow the users to browse a list of PS2 ISOs located on your Internal / External hard disk drive and from there with a simple press of a button automatically do the moving / renaming process, so you can go back to XMB and play the game selected.
The good thing about doing this kind of application, is that it can be made to display game covers, information, etc as well. So at the end we would have a very organized list of our PS2 backups.
The development of this application will be done mostly on weekends when I have the most free time. On week days I have university so I will not be able to work a lot on it, maybe add small modules and pieces of code.
So keep using PS2 Classics Placeholder for a while, and most of all, enjoy playing PS2 on your PS3!!!
Veezy bro we just aren't going to see eye to eye on this.
For me, this revelation makes this thing exactly like pulling out the Linux support. It was there in hardware, and they gimped it and removed hardware for reasons I can totally understand, but it was there too in software, in an incomplete buggy form or not, and they just hid that away to repackage and resell it, and lied to us that it wasn't in there at all.
I didn't come into the most recent console generation with the expectation of backward compatibility. The Atari 7800 did not set the precedent for my expectations.
It was Sony itself, and Nintendo and Microsoft, and the fact that these constantly update-able, patchable, online-drm susceptible consoles are pretty much becoming PC's so MAYBE they can also present me some of the benefits of PC's, that lead to the advancement of my expectations for BC.
They made the bed, now they got to sleep in it.
Possibly. I just see a distinction between removing something that is no longer advertised on future products and removing a feature from an already purchased product.
No worries though, I see where you're coming from. Nothing but love, mang, keep fighting that good fight. You have sword if there are zero plans for PS3 PSN purchases in the future (I really hope there's a plan in place for that shit). Luckily, PCSX2 will be there for you to run PS2 games for ya. Seriously, it's a great program.
A lot of games run flawlessly now... There's some that don't (ZoE2 sadly still runs poorly) but many many do.
Even persona 4 runs really well now.
Maybe I've just been lucky, the games I've played on it ran great (without slowdown or broken sound)
OtherOS (Linux) support was removed from systems that were already sold though. PS3s that were sold with PS2 backward compability still has that feature. Sony never advertised that other PS3 models could play PS2 games, so no one has payed anything extra for that. It is a pretty big difference between those things, in my opinion. Not that many complained when OtherOS wasnt present in the PS3 Slims, but when it was removed from the PS3 Phat models in a firmware update, that is why someone got angry.Veezy bro we just aren't going to see eye to eye on this.
For me, this revelation makes this thing exactly like pulling out the Linux support. It was there in hardware, and they gimped it and removed hardware for reasons I can totally understand, but it was there too in software, in an incomplete buggy form or not, and they just hid that away to repackage and resell it, and lied to us that it wasn't in there at all.
I didn't come into the most recent console generation with the expectation of backward compatibility. The Atari 7800 did not set the precedent for my expectations.
It was Sony itself, and Nintendo and Microsoft, and the fact that these constantly update-able, patchable, online-drm susceptible consoles are pretty much becoming PC's so MAYBE they can also present me some of the benefits of PC's, that lead to the advancement of my expectations for BC.
They made the bed, now they got to sleep in it.
Not being able to play games straight off a disc doesn't really tell us anything. Even the PS2 Classics rumor from the people that were doing QA on a ton of PS2 games said that they could only play off a hard drive, but that only means disc support wasn't added (or more likely, disabled), not that it couldn't be added.Personally i'll wait to see when someone makes PS2 discs work with the PS2 emulator without any problems. Then we know for sure that it is not a technical issue.
I seem to recall they were upset (as they should be), but I get the impression Wii U fans have bigger battles currently. A lot more people own PS3s, and there's probably more interest in the PS2 library than the Gamecube one (hence all the HD collections). Just guessing. Plus there's a little extra frustration from people like myself who purchased a BC PS3 because I knew I'd be using the BC a lot, but whose BC system died and are stuck with non-BC Slims and a big PS2 collection.EDIT: Generally speaking, in comparison, how did people react when it was shown that the WiiU can play Gamecube games, but Nintendo doesnt offer backward compability for it? Was it confirmed that the WiiU cant take Gamecube discs? As in, not possible to insert Gamecube discs into the system.
Yeah, i agree. I dont mean to say that disc support is impossible, i just mean that if someone makes disc support works, then there is absolutely no doubt that there isnt a technical issue/limitation at handNot being able to play games straight off a disc doesn't really tell us anything. Even the PS2 Classics rumor from the people that were doing QA on a ton of PS2 games said that they could only play off a hard drive, but that only means disc support wasn't added (or more likely, disabled), not that it couldn't be added.
All the hackers have done is find a loophole in the encryption, altering how the emulator works is a much more difficult task. But it doesn't mean Sony couldn't add disc support to the emulator with a week's worth of work. The old partial software BC systems had disc support, and this emulator appears to be an extension of that emulator, so I don't see how disc support would be a problem.
Yeah, i can see the desire for wanting it, especially if it seems to be possible. I dont really agree with the "this is just because of greed and i'm really pissed at Sony because they dont give this feature to me" reason though based on that PS1 discs still works, yet they are also being sold digitally. But that is just my guess.I seem to recall they were upset (as they should be), but I get the impression Wii U fans have bigger battles currently. A lot more people own PS3s, and there's probably more interest in the PS2 library than the Gamecube one (hence all the HD collections). Just guessing. Plus there's a little extra frustration from people like myself who purchased a BC PS3 because I knew I'd be using the BC a lot, but whose BC system died and are stuck with non-BC Slims and a big PS2 collection.
From what I remember, its got slowdowns and some effects may have been pared back or are missing? All I know is that the ps2 versions are better lol.How exactly does ZOE2 run? Slow downs? Glitches?
No, they havnt exactly blocked it. At least to me that would indicate that there was feature that is present in the PS3 to begin with. What they apparently are doing is not offering it for free now that they have been able to make a working PS2 emulator for the PS3. What the exact reason(s) for this is are anyone's guess.Wow so sony has blocked free ps2 emulation? I understood right? They are without shame, really.
From what I remember, its got slowdowns and some effects may have been pared back or are missing? All I know is that the ps2 versions are better lol.
Digital Foundry should do an article on that.
Is there anything new here, the corporate boot-lickers will sooner or later take over the thread.haha wow.
Stop trusting corporations, guys. They're not your friends.
Then i'm thinking of that Sony maybe offers PS2 backward compability on the PS3 through a firmware update. I dont predict that it will happen, but it shall be interesting to see nonetheless
Dont you think that would have happend already now that we're over 400 posts in? Or maybe i have missed some posts?Is there anything new here, the corporate boot-lickers will sooner or later take over the thread.
I agree, i think it is a very small chance for actually happening. I dont think there is a big enough demand for something like this at this point in time. But we'll see what happends Releasing unfinished software like that seems to be unpresedented i think? Although it might be done. Afterall, backward compability in general arent always guaranteed to work 100% either.Not going to happen unless mainstream media covers this extensively.
Best solution would be to do a low level unlock through a fw update + add blu-ray reader access to the emulator, but have it as a separate download under the XMB Games menu. When downloading they could just have a big disclaimer going "THIS IS NOT FINAL SOFTWARE. NOT ALL PS2 GAMES WORK. DONT COME COMPLAIN TO US. WE KNOW." And release as is.
I'm not sure what to think about this yet.
If the only way to do BC is to have the game stored and patched on the HDD as a new ISO, then I can understand not allowing it for piracy reasons.
If it's technically feasible to do BC straight off of the disc, then yeah...this just corporate greed.
I'm not sure what to think about this yet.
If the only way to do BC is to have the game stored and patched on the HDD as a new ISO, then I can understand not allowing it for piracy reasons.
If it's technically feasible to do BC straight off of the disc, then yeah...this just corporate greed.
reverse engineering the code is probably illegal?
Thanks but i was referring to the emulator on ps3. Has anyone tried to get ZOE2 to run on the ps3? Come to think of it of GOW2 runs like shit then theres no hope for Ghost hunter, transformers and ZOE2.
I think he means that if the original emulator only works with ISOs, and disc support isnt technically possible.What?
Homebrew dudes did not make the emulator, it is already in every PS3 system. They just found a way to trick the PS3 into thinking its booting a PS2 Classics game, thus starting the emulator.
Sony made the emulator and they have all the PS3 code to give the emulator access to the discdrive.
Yeah, definitely see where you're coming from there.Yeah, i agree. I dont mean to say that disc support is impossible, i just mean that if someone makes disc support works, then there is absolutely no doubt that there isnt a technical issue/limitation at hand
I'm not sure what to think about this yet.
If the only way to do BC is to have the game stored and patched on the HDD as a new ISO, then I can understand not allowing it for piracy reasons.
If it's technically feasible to do BC straight off of the disc, then yeah...this just corporate greed.
I think he means that if the original emulator only works with ISOs, and disc support isnt technically possible.
It's obviously feasible to do BC straight off the disc, this emulator appears to be based on the partial software one that was included in launch Euro systems. The only reason it currently requires an ISO on the HDD is because that's the loophole modders found.
reverse engineering the code is probably illegal?
Its possible, but i come to think of PCSX2 (PS2 emulator for PC). That project has been going on for like 10 years without being stopped, and surely there have been done reverse engineering to make such an emulator?Technically yes . But we can still talk about it right? There has not been any links to ISOs or anything.
ZOE2 works on PAL ps3 with software emu. I finished it on PS3.
I think they're using basically the same emu on classic because the didn't release any games that weren't already compatible on PAL emu.
By the way, was this only achieveable due to a loophole/exploit? What was stopping them from decrypting and signing the PS2 Classic games? I thought this was done through reverse engineering.Yeah, definitely see where you're coming from there
Yep.
Everyone keeps pointing out that Microsoft allows software bc but to be fair you have to pay for it by buying a harddrive. Same with the original ps3. So how many people here feeling indignant about this would pay 100 bucks for software bc. Let Sony know maybe they will release it but be honest people developing this was not free and few people would pay the cost of it when it is probably 70-75% compatible.
ZOE2 works on PAL ps3 with software emu. I finished it on PS3.
I think they're using basically the same emu on classic because the didn't release any games that weren't already compatible on PAL emu.
No, you played it on a PS3 with partial hardware backwards compatibility. The PS2 Classics emulator is not the same.
See that's what i thought. But why all this effort to bring these games to psn if ps4 isn't compatible? And i wonder is the vita is powerful enough to run the classic...No, you played it on a PS3 with partial hardware backwards compatibility. The PS2 Classics emulator is not the same.
Yeah I got some PAL imports coming in so I was going to end up checking out PCSX2 anyway. No worries here too. We are brothers.
On one side it's good to see that fully software based PS2 emulation is possible on PS3 without having to make specific tweaks to the code for each game. Considering the peculiarities of the GS and its high bandwidth embedded ram, it's definetly a great technological achievement.
On the other side it's really disappointing that they have a decent PS2 emulator in their hands and they just want people to buy the same games again digitally....also publishers have been really slow in creating digital versions of their PS2 classics, the games selection on the store is still really poor and limited compared to what the PS2 could offer. They're sending the message that the costs of republishing and testing again are not worth it considering the sales....but at this point why don't they just unlock the emulator?
Now that they have discontinued the ps2, they better unlock it. And also get the emulator running on ps4 day one.
Just so we're on the same page, that Linux business and the new Sim City is some of dat bullshit, right? Yafeelme?
Thanks but i was referring to the emulator on ps3. Has anyone tried to get ZOE2 to run on the ps3? Come to think of it of GOW2 runs like shit then theres no hope for Ghost hunter, transformers and ZOE2.
I think he means that if the original emulator only works with ISOs, and disc support isnt technically possible.
Compatibility looks the same anyway.
He IS talking about the ps3 version (the hd port;p) and I was talk about the pc emulator not the ps3 one.
Bollox, an ISO is literally a disc image, if an iso works a disc works too.
It isn't. Have you looked at the compatibility list today? http://www.pshomebrew.net/wiki/PS2_Classics_Emulator_Compatibility_List
He's asking because ZOE2 is notoriously hard to emulate, and even had performance issues when ported to PS3 and 360. How well the emulated version runs (or how poorly it does) should put to rest the fantasy that all PS2 games work perfectly fine with the pure software emulator.