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Devil Survivor: Overclocked (EU) finally released after 2 years, still has bugs.

wrowa

Member
If NISA despite being smaller than Atlus is able to be active in the European market (and not only that, they even manage to release the US and European versions of their games at the same time), I don't see any excuse why it wouldn't be viable for Atlus to do the same.

If XSEED is able to release a lot of their stuff digitally in Europe, I don't see why Atlus can only do the same thing once in an eternity and heavily delayed.

What makes Atlus' treatment of the European market so damn annoying, is that they're simply using the cheapest way out. They aren't making viable partnerships for the European market with competent partners (like NISA did with Tecmo-Koei), instead they seem to hope that someone wants to pick up their games for as cheap as possible. And as seen with P4: Arena and DS: Overclocked they apparently don't even support these publishers as much as they should.

The Euroean market is a difficult one, there's no reason to argue about that. However, pretty much every other niche publisher is showing at least some ambitions to bring their games over, in a timely fashion at that -- even a rather tiny one like Aksys has some kind of partnership with the European publisher Rising Star Games.

And Atlus?

Fucking nothing.

I honestly hope that P4 Golden and the prospect of getting EO4 in the next months via NISA might be a sign that Atlus is indeed establishing a partnership with NISA and TK, considering that both parties are doing a pretty good job in Europe.
 

Kikujiro

Member
This wasn't aimed at me, but I'm both European and an Atlus fan and completely understand why they don't want to open a branch here. 'Because I want them to even if it isn't financially viable for them' isn't a valid answer.

If I started my open business and a few US customers wanted me to open an office over there, rewriting everything specially for them at a huge cost in office space and staff (plus all the invisable costs and taxes of running a small-ish business) when that would cost me almost the entirety of any profit I might make to do so while also being hugely risky, I wouldn't bother either. Better to keep on having moderate success locally than to over stretch in uncertain times.

It might be worth them starting a team at one of their existing offices specialising in global digital publishing, however, now that eShop and PSN have made physical releases no longer mandatory.

You're making it sound like JRPGs are not viable in EU, so why is Namco Bandai pushing all his JRPGs here? JRPGs and anime games do extremely well in some markets here, especially in France. Comparing Atlus to the little business of a single person is disingenuous, they don't need to translate anything, European players are used to play JRPGs in english since forever.
The fact is that they just don't care, if Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory can be released in Europe without any problem every Atlus games, which are way more popular, can be released here.
 

NotLiquid

Member
If NISA despite being smaller than Atlus is able to be active in the European market (and not only that, they even manage to release the US and European versions of their games at the same time), I don't see any excuse why it wouldn't be viable for Atlus to do the same.

If XSEED is able to release a lot of their stuff digitally in Europe, I don't see why Atlus can only do the same thing once in an eternity and heavily delayed.

What makes Atlus' treatment of the European market so damn annoying, is that they're simply using the cheapest way out. They aren't making viable partnerships for the European market with competent partners (like NISA did with Tecmo-Koei), instead they seem to hope that someone wants to pick up their games for as cheap as possible. And as seen with P4: Arena and DS: Overclocked they apparently don't even support these publishers as much as they should.

The Euroean market is a difficult one, there's no reason to argue about that. However, pretty much every other niche publisher is showing at least some ambitions to bring their games over, in a timely fashion at that -- even a rather tiny one like Aksys has some kind of partnership with the European publisher Rising Star Games.

And Atlus?

Fucking nothing.

I honestly hope that P4 Golden and the prospect of getting EO4 in the next months via NISA might be a sign that Atlus is indeed establishing a partnership with NISA and TK, considering that both parties are doing a pretty good job in Europe.

I think partially why NISA are so dilligent in getting their products out is probably because a vast majority of their titles are games on Sony platforms, all of which are region free. For them it's probably just a matter of getting the title certified in that region and shipping the same product out in similar quantities, which isn't always 1:1 to begin with but they've gotten increasingly good at what they do, especially when you think about how long it took to outsource Disgaea 3 to Square Enix so they could release it in Europe.

Meanwhile a lot of Atlus games as of recent have been multiplatform or on platforms that are region locked which in and of itself is a bit of a lazy excuse for them to just not go through with it. Maybe since they figure their games aren't that big sellers to begin with they'd rather focus on their whole "Atlus Faithful" image for the US, and a lot of that fan base have such disregard to their European brethren its kind of sickening.
 

redcrayon

Member
You're making it sound like JRPGs are not viable in EU, so why is Namco Bandai pushing all his JRPGs here? JRPGs and anime games do extremely well in some markets here, especially in France. Comparing Atlus to the little business of a single person is disingenuous, they don't need to translate anything, European players are used to play JRPGs in english since forever.
The fact is that they just don't care, if Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory can be released in Europe without any problem every Atlus games, which are way more popular, can be released here.

No, I think JRPGs are perfectly viable in Europe (handhelds less so), and have no idea what Namco Bandai is up to. It's a different company with different products on different formats with different costs and a different company organisation, how is that relevant? Perhaps there is more and more pressure from platform holders or local media law to translate to other languages for European releases of games, or perhaps it's easier for one than the other due to distribution deals. We don't know. Comparing two companies just because they make the same type of games is like comparing any two western shooter developers and asking why one failed and one didn't.

I just think Atlus opening an office here is a big step due to the sheer cost and paperwork involved- it is far cheaper to outsource localisation than to open an office here- even opening an office in the UK or France doesn't guarantee the local knowledge needed to be a success in Germany or Spain.

Licensed games with a supporting cartoon are also a far easier sell, as they are usually aimed at children here rather than the older market that Atlus aim at.

As for 'they just don't care', that's oddly emotive whiny language for a business decision. Do you seriously think they sit in an office thinking of ways to piss off JRPG fans? If it was profitable and viable for their business model, Atlus would have done it by now, and the success of other companies in no way guarantees success for them.

Not all brands and fanbases are equal, they might well have looked at sales of EO1 and thought 'hmm.. that didn't go well. Let's let other companies take the risk for a few years localising for us, and see how well they do'. I wouldn't be surprised if continued success of EO, Persona and co lead them down that path in the future, but at the moment they just being cautious. Shed loads of devs closed this gen by not being so cagey.

Atlus make a small profit on small print runs of lots of cheap-to-make games, they are very prolific and agile. Becoming a truly global publisher might require the investment of funds that they just don't have or want to spend. No company is required to risk itself during a recession.

TL:DR: I have no idea why Atlus doesn't have an EU desk, but it's probably down to a financial or otherwise practical reason than 'they don't care about us'. The fact that a fan base for their products has grown up in a region they have never actually sold in is great and all but not a reason they need to directly support it if it isn't profitable to do so, or even if the profit is so small that the effort expended makes it a poor use of time compared to selling in the markets they have already.
 

Khrno

Member
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redcrayon

Member
If NISA despite being smaller than Atlus is able to be active in the European market (and not only that, they even manage to release the US and European versions of their games at the same time), I don't see any excuse why it wouldn't be viable for Atlus to do the same.

If XSEED is able to release a lot of their stuff digitally in Europe, I don't see why Atlus can only do the same thing once in an eternity and heavily delayed.

What makes Atlus' treatment of the European market so damn annoying, is that they're simply using the cheapest way out. They aren't making viable partnerships for the European market with competent partners (like NISA did with Tecmo-Koei), instead they seem to hope that someone wants to pick up their games for as cheap as possible. And as seen with P4: Arena and DS: Overclocked they apparently don't even support these publishers as much as they should.

The Euroean market is a difficult one, there's no reason to argue about that. However, pretty much every other niche publisher is showing at least some ambitions to bring their games over, in a timely fashion at that -- even a rather tiny one like Aksys has some kind of partnership with the European publisher Rising Star Games.

And Atlus?

Fucking nothing.

I honestly hope that P4 Golden and the prospect of getting EO4 in the next months via NISA might be a sign that Atlus is indeed establishing a partnership with NISA and TK, considering that both parties are doing a pretty good job in Europe.

I agree with virtually all of this, and think Atlus would be better off developing an internal digital localisation team combined with a regular EU distribution partner for boxed copies, (so that they keep the translations themselves for future use), but hey. Maybe they are just happy the way they are.

I also agree it seems crazy not to nurture the EU fan base now that it's established, as partners are never going to spot and develop and nurture their IP the way the owning company will, it's always a one-time deal to get the most cash rather than build a community.

Atlus be crazy, bless 'em.
 

wrowa

Member
I think partially why NISA are so dilligent in getting their products out is probably because a vast majority of their titles are games on Sony platforms, all of which are region free. For them it's probably just a matter of getting the title certified in that region and shipping the same product out in similar quantities, which isn't always 1:1 to begin with but they've gotten increasingly good at what they do, especially when you think about how long it took to outsource Disgaea 3 to Square Enix so they could release it in Europe.

Meanwhile a lot of Atlus games as of recent have been multiplatform or on platforms that are region locked which in and of itself is a bit of a lazy excuse for them to just not go through with it. Maybe since they figure their games aren't that big sellers to begin with they'd rather focus on their whole "Atlus Faithful" image for the US, and a lot of that fan base have such disregard to their European brethren its kind of sickening.

I'm not sure if the games being region-locked makes any negative difference to a publisher. PS3 games still need to be pressed individually for Europe, you still have to go through PEGI and USK for age ratings and I think you still need to pass the platform holder's certification. I don't know the technicalities, but it would surprise me if there's a lot of programming work to do in order to change the region code of a game. (Maybe NoE's requirements in general differ from NoA's which could make things a little more complicated, though.)

At the same time, a region lock can actually help the sales of niche games. RPGs sell to a core audience that's used to import games from time to time, so if you take too long to release a game you might very well lose sales. With a region-lock in place, you can be relatively certain that the fanbase won't just buy another version if you need two months to bring a game over to Europe. I think that should be taken into account too.

I think Atlus' situation might be a little worse than NISA's, since many of their games are on handhelds which aren't all that strong currently, but I'm not even expecting them to open their own offices in Europe. I'd be more than satisfied if they made partnerships with competent partners -- which in the end would not only make their European fans happy, it would also help their series to grow in Europe and releasing games not a year or two later will definitely also boost their sales.

And, yes, I do think that there are better publishers in Europe which would gladly release Atlus' stuff. Atlus' individual share per sold copy might be a bit lower than what they are getting with Zen or Ghostlight, but in the end it should be worth it.

Actually, Atlus did publish Persona 1 PSP on EU PSN. Like XSEED though, they seem to want a European partner when they think a retail release is warranted.

Well, I did say that they are doing it every once in an eternity.
 

wrowa

Member
Could just be me but the wording of that makes it sound like they could have used a 3rd party for the coding? May not have been an Atlus issue & could explain why it slipped past so many people.

No, it's almost definitely Atlus. You've got to keep in mind that just because Ghostlight has the license to publish the game in Europe, they aren't necessarily also allowed to touch the games' code.

The original publishers don't like to show other parties their game code (for good reason, probably) and Atlus strikes me as the sort of company that is especially protective in that regard. All of this probably happened because Ghostlight and Atlus signed the publishing deal too late, when the development teams had already long since stopped working on DS:O in favor of other projects. So, there was likely just no one available who had the time to make the changes -- and when someone finally had the time, he apparently rushed it.
 

Omikaru

Member
If NISA despite being smaller than Atlus is able to be active in the European market (and not only that, they even manage to release the US and European versions of their games at the same time), I don't see any excuse why it wouldn't be viable for Atlus to do the same.

If XSEED is able to release a lot of their stuff digitally in Europe, I don't see why Atlus can only do the same thing once in an eternity and heavily delayed.

What makes Atlus' treatment of the European market so damn annoying, is that they're simply using the cheapest way out. They aren't making viable partnerships for the European market with competent partners (like NISA did with Tecmo-Koei), instead they seem to hope that someone wants to pick up their games for as cheap as possible. And as seen with P4: Arena and DS: Overclocked they apparently don't even support these publishers as much as they should.

The Euroean market is a difficult one, there's no reason to argue about that. However, pretty much every other niche publisher is showing at least some ambitions to bring their games over, in a timely fashion at that -- even a rather tiny one like Aksys has some kind of partnership with the European publisher Rising Star Games.

And Atlus?

Fucking nothing.

I honestly hope that P4 Golden and the prospect of getting EO4 in the next months via NISA might be a sign that Atlus is indeed establishing a partnership with NISA and TK, considering that both parties are doing a pretty good job in Europe.

Agree with all of this. Bolded especially.

Could just be me but the wording of that makes it sound like they could have used a 3rd party for the coding? May not have been an Atlus issue & could explain why it slipped past so many people.

Sounds that way.
 
Could just be me but the wording of that makes it sound like they could have used a 3rd party for the coding? May not have been an Atlus issue & could explain why it slipped past so many people.

The more worrying thing for me is the "hoping" to put out a patch thing.

Because if they can't put out a patch the only recourse is recall/replacement, and I can't see a small company like GL absorbing that painlessly.
 
Could just be me but the wording of that makes it sound like they could have used a 3rd party for the coding? May not have been an Atlus issue & could explain why it slipped past so many people.
I doubt that. Ghostlight has a sister company (Laughing Jackal) that does coding for them in-house if necessary. They probably just didn't do enough QA in their rush to finally get the game out the door once they had received the localized build.
 

Kikujiro

Member
TL:DR: I have no idea why Atlus doesn't have an EU desk, but it's probably down to a financial or otherwise practical reason than 'they don't care about us'. The fact that a fan base for their products has grown up in a region they have never actually sold in is great and all but not a reason they need to directly support it if it isn't profitable to do so, or even if the profit is so small that the effort expended makes it a poor use of time compared to selling in the markets they have already.

Namco Bandai always ignored Europe, in fact the first official release of a Tales of was Symphonia and only because Nintendo published it, yet the last few years they are putting Europe before USA for their Tales of release, because they started to notice that the games actually sell well.

You insist with this hypothetical situation that it's so damn hard to open an office in Europe when Nippon Ichi, which is a way smaller company than Atlus, has no problem releasing their games here, they did even publish Persona 4 Golden.

Atlus doesn't want to piss customers, they don't care. They sit in the office thinking they are perfectly fine with their sales in Japan and USA, if the games will be or not be released in Europe is not of their concern, which is fine business-wise, but they are underestimating the EU market. Instead of nurturing an EU fanbase they continue to sabotage their own games with unjustifiable late ports, it's only natural people will get angry.
 

redcrayon

Member
Namco Bandai always ignored Europe, in fact the first official release of a Tales of was Symphonia and only because Nintendo published it, yet the last few years they are putting Europe before USA for their Tales of release, because they started to notice that the games actually sell well.

You insist with this hypothetical situation that it's so damn hard to open an office in Europe when Nippon Ichi, which is a way smaller company than Atlus, has no problem releasing their games here, they did even publish Persona 4 Golden.

Atlus doesn't want to piss customers, they don't care. They sit in the office thinking they are perfectly fine with their sales in Japan and USA, if the games will be or not be released in Europe is not of their concern, which is fine business-wise, but they are underestimating the EU market. Instead of nurturing an EU fanbase they continue to sabotage their own games with unjustifiable late ports, it's only natural people will get angry.

Yes, that's fair, I understand people getting frustrated with their approach.

But they are two completely different companies- Atlus primarily makes handheld games, which is a struggling market compared to the Playstation in Europe, it just cant fall back on PS3 sales of a far wider catalogue of products to prop up other unsuccessful launches like NI can.

I don't know why you keep on comparing them when the fact they both make JRPGs is the only thing they have in common, the link is pretty much in your head as you like JRPGs, not because their business models have anything in common. Even Level 5 is struggling with its handheld games in Europe now, and Layton/Inazuma were far more popular a couple of years back than anything Atlus has- that's how quick the situation changes, and that's why it's risky to set up in Europe. NI might well be successful with their spread-betting approach but there are no guarantees Atlus would share that success long term- they have fewer, bigger titles and thus concentrated risk. Using secondary publishers shields them from an unsuccessful launch- on a much larger scale it's exactly why Capcom has Nintendo market Monster Hunter.

Getting NI to publish its games seems to be the least risky option for Atlus if it even wants to release physical copies here.

Atlus are a much bigger, more stable company- that's exactly why they let other people take risks for them. We'd all love it if Atlus EU was a thing but I don't see why they should based on a single other niche publisher enjoying a modicum of success on different platforms, when their own IP has never been bigger in their most stable markets. If you were their MD, and had a choice between making EO5 alongside the EO remake, almost guaranteed to make money given its current popularity, or spending the money setting up Atlus EU to sell EO4 in a market that didn't buy the first one and barely knows that SMT exists (their own fault admittedly), which would you choose.
 

Ath

Member
Another update from Ghostlight. Looks like it'll be patched, but dunno when. I'm glad they're doing something about it anyway.

Ghostlight said:
To give you an update of where we are... We have been in contact with Atlus who are already looking into fixing the possible causes of problems when summoning a demon in to a battle along with the intermittent crash found in the Auction House. Nintendo have also been contacted and will be able to help us both quickly and efficiently through the process of looking at a patch solution.

EDIT: D'oh! Wrong link!
 

duckroll

Member
Okay so basically they confirmed that Atlus is in fact directly responsible for this fuck-up? Where was the guy who was so ardently defending Atlus' precious honor earlier and accusing people of falsely assigning blame blahblahblah when none of that was happening?
 

Domstercool

Member
Atlus once again fucking up? Taking ages in bringing P4A for Zen United and messing up Overclocked for Ghostlight. EU publishers can't get anything good. :(
 

Nasley

Neo Member
Good to know they're working on it... I hope it gets patched soon.

I really wanna play it but I won't buy a broken product :(
 

redlemon

Member
Okay so basically they confirmed that Atlus is in fact directly responsible for this fuck-up? Where was the guy who was so ardently defending Atlus' precious honor earlier and accusing people of falsely assigning blame blahblahblah when none of that was happening?

Well their fault as in they are the ones doing the localisation programming. I feel the fault still lies with the publisher when it comes to releasing faulty games.
 

redcrayon

Member
It's an annoying fuckup and everything but I think Ghostlight have handled it as well as they can so far. You can 't really argue with daily updates over a bank holiday and keeping people in the loop on social media etc- not many publishers would do that.
 

NekoFever

Member
Yeah, they've handled it as well as can be expected.

I'm still angry, but Ghostlight is marginally lower on the shit list, below Atlus for the continuing lack of interest in catering to European fans and Nintendo for region-locking a handheld.
 
Well their fault as in they are the ones doing the localisation programming. I feel the fault still lies with the publisher when it comes to releasing faulty games.

i agree something like the summoning bug should have been found when the european publisher received a copy of the game and tested it .. isn't that their job to find those things to change or fix for their releases and send it to the programmer team ?

Now i'm glad that they are aware of the issue and promised to fix it quickly .. Hopefully quickly won't be a matter of months .
 

Jubern

Member
This was answered not even ten posts before yours... Ghostlight has acknowledged the issue since Sunday and said yesterday they were talking with Atlus about the problem and Nintendo about how to issue a patch.
 
This was answered not even ten posts before yours... Ghostlight has acknowledged the issue since Sunday and said yesterday they were talking with Atlus about the problem and Nintendo about how to issue a patch.

I'm sorry!
I just read the first post and commented! Should have read through at least the last few posts like I usually do haha :(
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Okay so basically they confirmed that Atlus is in fact directly responsible for this fuck-up? Where was the guy who was so ardently defending Atlus' precious honor earlier and accusing people of falsely assigning blame blahblahblah when none of that was happening?

My policy for this kind of stuff is simple.

Whoever put their logo in front of the box is responsible for whatever happening inside the box.
 
I'm curious to know if there's been an update about what's happening with the issues.



European copies seem to be increasingly harder to find, and more expensive.
 

redlemon

Member
They said before that there would be a second shipment this month to retailers but that was before this mess so who knows if there holding back on copies until it's fixed.
 
They said before that there would be a second shipment this month to retailers but that was before this mess so who knows if there holding back on copies until it's fixed.

Yep, I think I saw on ghostlight store that if you ordered there now it would be sent by April 19th, so I'm guessing that's when retailers will be getting more copies.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Okay so basically they confirmed that Atlus is in fact directly responsible for this fuck-up? Where was the guy who was so ardently defending Atlus' precious honor earlier and accusing people of falsely assigning blame blahblahblah when none of that was happening?

This hardly excuses Ghostlight from blame. They'd have noticed something like this if they had any decent QA.


And since you asked:

I'm not. Atlus is one of the laziest companies ever, but their rabid fanbase doesn't care. Don't expect Persona 5 until 2016.

Sounds like assigning blame to me.
 

cluderi

Member
Mine just turned up in the post (UK->Australia)

Guess I'll stick it in the "play it when it works pile" and go back to Luigis mansion.
 

Ath

Member
Nice, at least it got sorted quickly. I'm still wondering how Atlus contrived to introduce the bugs specifically into Ghostlight's release. Maybe they've dumped the job of handling EU Atlus games to the work experience. Would explain the delays with this and P4Arena :p
 

also

Banned
If they patch it successfully, I might get this.
Now, if only the scalpers would stop price gouging. Only ShopTo has it for a decent price (~30 pounds) but they have it on back order. Did this game get a minuscule print run or what?
 

t26

Member
Namco Bandai always ignored Europe, in fact the first official release of a Tales of was Symphonia and only because Nintendo published it, yet the last few years they are putting Europe before USA for their Tales of release, because they started to notice that the games actually sell well.

You insist with this hypothetical situation that it's so damn hard to open an office in Europe when Nippon Ichi, which is a way smaller company than Atlus, has no problem releasing their games here, they did even publish Persona 4 Golden.

Atlus doesn't want to piss customers, they don't care. They sit in the office thinking they are perfectly fine with their sales in Japan and USA, if the games will be or not be released in Europe is not of their concern, which is fine business-wise, but they are underestimating the EU market. Instead of nurturing an EU fanbase they continue to sabotage their own games with unjustifiable late ports, it's only natural people will get angry.

That only because Namco brought the European operation from Atari, who at that time was getting out the Europe market. This is why you are now getting games around the same time as US instead of waiting 6months.
 
Digital Devil Saga, and that was always highly suspect, because Atlus USA and JP never mentioned it.

They were submitted to Sony but didn't run on the PS2 emulator well enough, so Sony dropped them. Ghostlight were obviously overzealous with their announcement but that's probably because they don't have any history with how Sony handle PS1/PS2 submissions, so didn't know that submitting them was only step one in a long process.

Okay so basically they confirmed that Atlus is in fact directly responsible for this fuck-up? Where was the guy who was so ardently defending Atlus' precious honor earlier and accusing people of falsely assigning blame blahblahblah when none of that was happening?

He's in a place where discussion is pointless because he's already made his mind up before he even entered the thread. Nothing's ever Index/Atlus' fault. Doesn't matter if it's region locking, DS:O or P4A, it's everyone else's fault, not the one at the very centre of all the problems.
 

Omikaru

Member
Patch update.

we haven’t forgotten about those of you waiting for a fix for Devil Survivor Overclocked. Thanks to the very hard work carried out by Atlus, I’m pleased to say that we received a patch for this title at the beginning of this week. Testing is going well and so far we have been unable to reproduce any of the reported bugs using the patch, and neither have we seen any new ones. Should this happy state of affairs continue then we will be submitting the patch to Nintendo as soon as possible in preparation for its distribution on Nintendo’s eShop.

That was surprisingly quick. Hopefully the second print of the game is pre-patched.
 

cluderi

Member
Great news, after my initial disappointment I'm glad to see it's being handled. Looking forward to playing this once it's patched.
 

Glass Rebel

Member
I think I saw this for a good price in a local store. If the patch comes through and fixes the bugs I might get it sooner rather than later. I feel this might become rare.
 

cluderi

Member
This I'll get the second print and hope it's already patched, too bad they won't release on eShop =/ and now I've got Fire Emblem, sigh...

Just double checked the blog.

"Please note that the newly manufactured stock will still require the patch to resolve the bugs."
 
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