Better delayed and perfected than released glitchy to hell, requiring several huge patches and then DLC to complete the narrative.
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Bloomberg: Nintendo to announce 18.7 Billion Yen loss for the fiscal year
- Thread starter Mihael Mello Keehl
- Start date
Better delayed and perfected than released glitchy to hell, requiring several huge patches and then DLC to complete the narrative.
Oh duh..I was in the middle of writing a post on Iwata and I misread the post and thought that was in reference to him.
Snark backfire. ;___;
But, yeah, I actually agree. We don't know how much of Reggie's incompetence is due to him, or due to Iwata's castrating of NOA in general. His hands seemed to be pretty tied when it comes to anything other than choosing which games to localize.
(I personally believe that Reggie initially chose not to localize Xenoblade just to remind himself he still has some power within the company. lol)
Because that's clearly the only alternative. Blow past your deadline or get THE WORSE GAME EVER.
People said the same about the 3DS two years back, and now look at it
They don't need a major shake up, specifically Iwata being removed, to sort it out. All that'd cause is turmoil in the company, possibly even more losses should the new head decide to start canning projects and there would be no sign of anything changing on the consumer side for at least two years.
People often say "Oh, they should do a price cut". Yes, that might entice sales, though it won't without the software, which they are hard at work doing, but that would ruin Nintendo's financials even more, causing people to say "Out with Iwata" even more than they are now
Aquamarine
Member
Reggie handles more of the day-to-day operations of licensing, North American distribution, and North American marketing. Yeah he's the defacto spokesperson for Nintendo at North American trade events, but that doesn't necessarily mean all that much.
Iwata is the guy who defines Nintendo's long-term strategies, maintains relationships with key Nintendo partners, and finalizes the fundamentals of the product. In other words, he's the rubber stamp that approves everything. He is the face of Nintendo.
Reggie's just a puppet with localized, nuts-and-bolts-related autonomy.
Of course. The marketing for 3DS was bad and there were no games. They improved the marketing in my opinion and also the game started coming. Boom! Success!
PshycoNinja
Member
Lets put this into perspective.
This is a lot of money lost. No way to slice that positively.
Lets look at it this way. Square Enix loss less money then this (~5 billion yen less) this last fiscal year. They called it extraordinary losses in their report and it forced the CEO of the company out.
Now lets also realize that Nintendo has been losing money for two strait years now. This does not bode well for Nintendo or Iwata. If he doesn't massively turn the ship around this next fiscal year and return with big profits then it will be "game over" for him.
StreetsAhead
Member
3DS:
Pokemon X & Y
Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D
Daigasso Brothers & the Band
Mario & Luigi RPG 4
Mario VS Donkey Kong (eshop)
Mario Golf World Tour
LoZ: LttP2
Mario Party 3DS
Yoshi's Island 3
Animal Crossing (EU/US)
Smash Bros. 4
Brain Training (EU)
Wii U:
Pikmin 3
Game & Wario (EU/US)
The Wonderful 101
Bayonetta 2
New Super Luigi (DLC)
Pokemon Rumble U (eshop)
Panorama View (eshop)
3D Mario
Mario Kart 8
SMT X FE
Monolith Soft's X
Yarn Yoshi
LoZ: WWHD
Wii Fit U
Wii Party U
Smash Bros. 4
Lego City　Undercover (JP)
Rayman Legends (JP)
Bold are confirmed for FY2013. Studios like IntSys, Retro, & HAL all have no games announced. I'm pretty sure all of SDP 3's games (the team that handles liason with Western devs) are released, which means there must be unknown projects. If the Wii and DS had had a year like this, no one would be questioning anything.
Pokemon X & Y
Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D
Daigasso Brothers & the Band
Mario & Luigi RPG 4
Mario VS Donkey Kong (eshop)
Mario Golf World Tour
LoZ: LttP2
Mario Party 3DS
Yoshi's Island 3
Animal Crossing (EU/US)
Smash Bros. 4
Brain Training (EU)
Wii U:
Pikmin 3
Game & Wario (EU/US)
The Wonderful 101
Bayonetta 2
New Super Luigi (DLC)
Pokemon Rumble U (eshop)
Panorama View (eshop)
3D Mario
Mario Kart 8
SMT X FE
Monolith Soft's X
Yarn Yoshi
LoZ: WWHD
Wii Fit U
Wii Party U
Smash Bros. 4
Lego City　Undercover (JP)
Rayman Legends (JP)
Bold are confirmed for FY2013. Studios like IntSys, Retro, & HAL all have no games announced. I'm pretty sure all of SDP 3's games (the team that handles liason with Western devs) are released, which means there must be unknown projects. If the Wii and DS had had a year like this, no one would be questioning anything.
Square-Enix are a software company only
Nintendo deal with hardware development and release which costs a lot more money.
Apples & Oranges
If next year things show no sign of turning around for the Wii U, then I will understand calling for Iwata's head and/or major change in Nintendo. However, people are so reluctant to give Nintendo a chance. They have been calling for Iwata's head ever since the 3DS stumbled out the gate. Now it's doing brilliantly, and people are still calling for his head
And I think it's such a missed opportunity that Nintendo is run this way.
I mean, just look at Sony. Their regional subsidiaries have a little more autonomy, and it was because of that that SCEA and SCEE were able to step up, tap into the growing western development trend, and save the Playstation brand when SCEJ drove off a cliff this gen.
NOA could never do that for Nintendo the way it's currently structured.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Two totally different size companies. SE has been dealing with serious managerial issues for years now. It wasnt one year of losses that got him booted out, it was half a decade of poor direction
shinra-bansho
Member
PshycoNinja
Member
Billions of yen lost is still billions of yen lost. Stockholders won't be happy. People who run the budgets for the company won't be happy. They aren't bringing in what they are putting out. That's bad. Bad, bad, bad.
Now, is 13 billion/18 billion yen a lot more to SE then Nintendo? Absolutely, but come on dude. Billions of yen lost is not good. Just because Nintendo CAN take a bigger hit doesn't mean they SHOULD take the hit. This is bad and if I was in any high position or a large stockholder, I would not be very thrilled about this news. I would be calling for blood.
Nintendo has been dealing with serious managerial issues for years now.
Nintendo's troubles didn't start with the 3DS. They started when the Wii was practically abandoned years ago. They started when Nintendo failed to lay the groundwork for important online services even further back.
Peeling away the bandage that was the Wii and original DS, the managerial issues that are having a visible effect on Nintendo's bottom line now have been present for years.
I don't understand how people could defend Iwata at this point. We're going to get another quote to add to the list tomorrow, aren't we?
You could literally say this about ANY bad CEO on the brink of being fired. Sure things could get potentially worse after he leaves. That's always a possibility. That doesn't mean you keep the guy who's doing a shitty job forever. You sack him and hope for the best going forward.
You could literally say this about ANY bad CEO on the brink of being fired. Sure things could get potentially worse after he leaves. That's always a possibility. That doesn't mean you keep the guy who's doing a shitty job forever. You sack him and hope for the best going forward.
PshycoNinja
Member
SE reported a profit last (read 2011) FY ending March 2012.
http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/14/square-enix-reports-fiscal-year-profit-thanks-to-a-couple-of-big-hits/
While I don't disagree with the fact that they had serious managerial issues for years now they had been profiting up until this last FY (March 2012 - March 2013) and FY 2010. Those are really the only low points in the last 10-ish years.
Petrae
Member
No, but absolving him of responsibility for games not being ready sooner is ludicrous. He's the top man. He's ultimately responsible when internal development teams struggle and can't get games out the door in a reasonable fashion. Why did this process take over two years? Understand, this is going to be the third E3 that the Wii U has been shown at, and the retail market at the time of E3 for Wii U will consist of two first-party games. TWO. NintendoLand (which was a pack-in for some) and NSMBU. That's it. Game & Wario hits after E3, then Pikmin well after that.
Iwata can't make games magically appear, but a strong leader drives his teams to get products to market instead of begging for patience. Perhaps other people below Iwata should be fired for this incompetence, but the questions start with Iwata. He needed to ensure that these games were done before throwing Wii U out there because he had no other choice. He didn't do that.
StreetsAhead
Member
Lego City Undercover doesn't count because reasons.
Except for the fact that FF XIV nearly bankrupted them, DQ X flopped and Final Fantasy is a tarnished brand at this point thanks to XIII and XIII-2 as well as Versus being a no-show the entire console generation.
SE is not in good shape right now.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
That is a directional issue, not managerial. Not being able to budget or get games out the door in a reasonable time frame so that they turn a profit like SE are managerial issues i was referring too. They may not have lost much money over the past 5 years but they failed to create much value considering their position at the start of the generation. Nintendo is a very efficient company for the size they are.
The online bit is reasonable from a hardcore gamers perspective, but it feels silly to think that had anything to do with where they are now. could have handled the transition to the new generations smoother? Of course, but at the end of the day they took the path that every hardware/software company has to choose and that is getting the item out there. These are 5 year investments that have to begin somewhere. If anything, their abandoning of the wii those final 2 years paid dividends for the 3ds.
My only real point is that no one can compare SEs problems and Nintendo as cleanly as what I was responding too.
My Wii U has only frozen twice, once in NFS and once in Lego City. I have never experienced these hardlock problems people have.
Day one updates are quite common these days, and you will see MS and Sony will provide the same. Don't be deluded enough to think otherwise.
I also don't get the speed issue. Mine never runs as slow as some other's
No, loss isn't good. However, there's a clear trend showing that the loss is being reduced and everything is turning around. Looking at a single number out of context, yes it's bad. Looking at it compared to previous, it's getting better
I defend Iwata because I have faith in him turning it around. He is one of the only CEOs that doesn't want to sap as much money as possible from the consumer. He doesn't want subscription models for the console. He doesn't want his company's games to have pointless DLC.
I want him to stay. He has a view on how the industry should be, and I agree with it. I hate how gaming is turning, with loads of ridiculous DLC, microtransactions, season passes etc.
Around half. We'll know for sure tomorrow
Petrae
Member
They published it. Okay. Doesn't explain what Nintendo's internal development teams were doing. LEGO was developed by Traveller's Tales. So-- first-party yes, if only because Nintendo published/funded it. Still doesn't account for confusion/ineptitude at the first-party studio level.
You're right. They're not.
But they still reported a profit last FY.
Really puts things into perspective. Even though Square-Enix was profitable until only recently, they were still aware of the damage done to their legacy brands, and ousted Wada as a result.
Meanwhile, people want Iwata to stick around despite Iwata doing the same to Nintendo, only with consecutive loses. Huge consecutive losses.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Less than half.
Aquamarine
Member
Why are people always so quick to forget about Nintendo's lesser-known titles?
So far, Nintendo has funded LEGO City Undercover, Nintendo Land, New Super Mario Bros. U, SiNG Party, and Nintendo x Joysound Wii Karaoke U.
They've also established distribution deals with Capcom for Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Tecmo Koei with Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, among others.
Nintendo's "internal development teams" have been split between 3DS and Wii U titles. There's only so much they can work on at a time. That's why Nintendo has been outsourcing development of 1st-party titles to studios like Platinum Games.
PshycoNinja
Member
But there's a difference between posting profit and tarnishing brands. While I don't disagree XIV helped (hence the reason for a bad 2010 fiscal year) and XIII hindered the Final Fantasy brand, that's a completely different issue. We are talking about losses and profit margins here. I was comparing the two because they both made questionable budget and revenue decisions that, in the end, made both companies post losses for this FY.
I also agree that past decisions have put them in the pickle they are in and need to make more sensible decisions based on fanbase reactions (bringing the game everyone wants out (Versus(XV))) and proper budgeting of titles and their marketing budgets.
Once that is straitened all out they'll be posting profits again.
Nintendo on the other hand are in a bigger pickle then people are willing to admit.
shinra-bansho
Member
Why does it matter that your magic Wii U, in your magic town where all your friends are trading in their 360s to get Wii Us because of how wonderfully magically revolutionary it is, has never encountered problems that were and/or still are widespread with the Wii U's launch? That doesn't stop them from being widespread issues.
A) you presented a false dichotomy, and B) Nintendo are not above releasing rushed and/or half-baked products.
Which is why upon positive reaction he decided to gouge up the price on the 3DS...
This empathy with CEOs and companies, from all quarters, is frankly bizarre.
StreetsAhead
Member
SDP developers were also on supervising/managing roles on the project, right? As with all out-sourced games. Just because it's Lego it doesn't count in people's minds, but it's just as much a 'Nintendo' game as Luigi's Mansion 2 is.
I think you're confused, though. Not releasing games is not the same as being inept. Is Kamiya's team 'inept' too? Or did they need more time to finish? Wii Fit U was rated back in January by the Australian classification board, it's done, but releasing it now is suicide. Wario is done, it's just being localised, probably held off a while to separate it from Nintendo Land a little. Pikmin got people bitching about the graphics and that seems to be the biggest thing they've worked on (or the lighting engine at least). Nintendo delayed two 'internal' games and suddenly they're inept.
EDIT: I forgot about stuff like Sing Party & Wii Street U.
The 3DS didn't have the successors to two very successful consoles breathing down its neck.
Petrae
Member
At least in Iwata's case, the man is likable. He's genuine, sincere, easy to listen to. Fils-Aime is a manchild. Angry, coarse, in-your-face, combative. Fils-Aime's act worked when Nintendo was dominating the US. He has that confident swagger about him.
Problem is that Nintendo's not dominating in the US anymore. Microsoft has been dominant for over two years now while the Wii faded into irrelevance and as the 3DS attempted to find its footing. Reggie's swagger is misplaced. It's not an air of confidence. It's a man being an asshat because that's all he knows how to be on the public stage.
If Nintendo is going to use the President of NOA as a puppet, get a different one. Go talk to Howard Phillips and see if he'll come back. Talk to Jason Rubin. These guys are confident, but sincere and still show some humility. They won't utter nonsense like "My body is ready" and "What's wrong with you?"; they sell what they know because they genuinely love what they sell.
If true (we'll discover in few days) would not be that bad. next FY will not have console launches, and will probably see consolidated revenue from the 3DS (HW especially) and probably Wii U also (SW especially); considering also the new YEN trend, could be a good FY for Nintendo.
You gave me a big hearty laugh with that one. Iwata's the worst.
shinra-bansho
Member
It's the same version of the same OS running on the same hardware. That it's slow is readily apparent, that it's noticeable ymmv. The same hardware with the same firmware updates.
The only anecdotal part is whether the hard-locks and freezing issues are widespread.
But let's go back to pretending Nintendo have released a perfect product, and only ever do so, and there are only two options when it comes to software on-time and incomplete/broken and delayed and perfect. Because they are infallible after all.
Only Iwata also presided over their huge successes with DS and Wii thus at least deserves to get some credit and a chance to turn it over.
Wada on the other hand lead S-E all the way into what they are now.
ColdBlooder
Banned
This thread...
Just wow. Straight up, trolling, deathwishes for Iwata (Posting a seppuku drawing is just that, don't try to defend it. It can't mean anything else), gifs calling him a Bitch.
smh.
Theres nothing to defend. Seriously. Im not talking about the news here. This is about GAF not being able to have a fruitful discussion about ANYTHING Nintendo. If people are willing to go this far just to shit on a company then its not even worth for me to start. If i need future proof that GAF is not a board for Nintendo fans, i just need to link to this thread.
This topic is worth having a thread and a discussion. Good and bad news are worthy of a discussion. But not like this!
Ironically if theres good news, all those people jumping happily into every bad news Nintendo thread are MIA. Oh gee what a surprise. Good Nintendo news rarely reach 3 pages on GAF (50ppp). Cant give credit when they do good stuff (example: The last Nintendo Direct).
Too bad a discussion cannot be had about Nintendo on NeoGAF.
Im 28 years old now. Im too old for this behavior and certanly won't drop to such a sameful level. Its just Videogames people.
Just wow. Straight up, trolling, deathwishes for Iwata (Posting a seppuku drawing is just that, don't try to defend it. It can't mean anything else), gifs calling him a Bitch.
smh.
Theres nothing to defend. Seriously. Im not talking about the news here. This is about GAF not being able to have a fruitful discussion about ANYTHING Nintendo. If people are willing to go this far just to shit on a company then its not even worth for me to start. If i need future proof that GAF is not a board for Nintendo fans, i just need to link to this thread.
This topic is worth having a thread and a discussion. Good and bad news are worthy of a discussion. But not like this!
Ironically if theres good news, all those people jumping happily into every bad news Nintendo thread are MIA. Oh gee what a surprise. Good Nintendo news rarely reach 3 pages on GAF (50ppp). Cant give credit when they do good stuff (example: The last Nintendo Direct).
Too bad a discussion cannot be had about Nintendo on NeoGAF.
Im 28 years old now. Im too old for this behavior and certanly won't drop to such a sameful level. Its just Videogames people.
This post...
Wada also presided over the biggest profits Square has ever posted. In fact, Wada was at least smart enough to know that the only way to make the company more relevant was to buy western studios and form SE studios in the west. Iwata has failed to even see the need for this.
Petrae
Member
LEGO City is the first non-internal title to register anything close to a success at retail. ~50K for MonHun isn't a feather in anyone's cap when it's less than 5% penetrated to the install base. I haven't heard about Gaiden 3 making any waves, either.
That's why these things are easy to forget-- nobody's buying them or paying any attention to them.
Your point stands about Nintendo throwing money at other projects because they're too busy. That's also what's going to sink them-- or, at least, make a comeback very difficult. For as other Nintendo fans have mentioned in this very thread: People buy Nintendo games for Nintendo hardware. Not Monster Hunter. Not Ninja Gaiden. Not SiNG Party. They buy Mario. Zelda. Familiar IP. That's the stuff that Nintendo needed out of the gate to move the needle. Bad gambles were made because Iwata knew the jig was up. Wii U needed to launch, with or without games being ready. Now he faces the second false start since 2011, and there's no guarantee that Wii U will follow the 3DS trajectory. Not in a far more competitive console market. 3DS beating Vita isn't competition. Wii U facing an Xbox brand with tons of sales momentum and a PlayStation brand looking to get its top spot back will be a massive test with a very uncertain outcome.
Worst of all, Nintendo had up to a year in the spotlight for its very own to set the pace. That opportunity was blown.
It's sounding like the only discussion you want to have regarding Nintendo is rainbows and butterflies.
shinra-bansho
Member
Oh, good god. Not only are you being ridiculously histrionic about the seppuku drawing, but you're actually taking the (frankly, hilarious) Pocahontas gif as "Calling Iwata a bitch."
If you're 28, you're old enough to get over the victim-complex.
ColdBlooder
Banned
Looks like you didn't read my post.
ColdBlooder
Banned
I just refuse to deal with people using every chance to post nonsense like that image. Or happily celebrating a company doing bad.
I think you should be praised for your successes, but held accountable for your fuck-ups.
Iwata shouldn't be given an infinite fuck-up pass because of decisions he made almost a decade ago. ESPECIALLY when he's followed it up with colossal missteps like the 3DS and Wii U launches.
When a CEO fucks up as consistently as Iwata has at this point you don't wait around and give him the chance to keep fucking up. You clean house.
CoffeeGames
Member
The hard reset/freezing issue is widespread. Call Nintendo customer service, and the rep you get will probably confirm it (I call each time mine freezes, so it's documented).
If the hard reset function is not patched this week, I don't think it can/will be...
Petrae
Member
Why is releasing a game now "suicide"? Because Nintendo doesn't know how to market it? If Wii Fit U is ready, waiting and losing valuable time solo time on the market is arguably a worse idea.
I'm all for not releasing games until they're done, but again: TWO YEARS. The better solution for Nintendo, if the games weren't ready, would have been to scrub the Wii U launch until they were ready. They could have delivered on the promises that early adopters had to wait to see fulfilled, they might have had a quicker OS in place than the mess we've (allegedly) seen over the last six months, and more games would have been available aside from the cavalcade of last-gen games that people already bought on last-gen consoles.
If the strategy now is to finish games and withhold them to load up for the holidays, it'll be an interesting battle. Wii U will face competition on several fronts: New (and more powerful) hardware from Sony and MS will captivate core audiences; budget-conscious families with less disposable income throughout the year will find better deals (and cheaper libraries) with 360/PS3; and the casual set has long since graduated from Wii and are content with either mobile gaming or with the latest Call of Duty and Madden.
It's all uphill after September. If Iwata's got a plan (he almost assuredly does), it had better be something special. The odds are very, very long.
How is he the worst? Is he putting games out requiring DLC? Requiring microtransactions for basic things?
Do tell
This same caliber of games were released for the game cube and it didn't help much in the long run selling consoles. The Wii U is the definition of a hardware failure.
DLC and microtransactions aren't the only sign of a money hungry CEO.
As someone pointed out earlier, the fact that he looked at the initial good reaction the 3DS got at its E3 unveiling and significantly raised the price in response is telling.
shinra-bansho
Member
Is this your first time on GAF? Your personal affections are coloring your perspective, there are plenty of long bad news threads about all the companies, when there's bad news to be had.
Your examples from this thread are just silly. No one (sane) wishes death upon Iwata, claiming so is the most ridiculous of strawmen I've seen in a while. I don't know why people keep perpetuating the nonsense idea. And again the Pocahontas gif was hilarious; equating it to "calling Iwata a bitch" is histrionics.
There's plenty of discussion in the thread, amid the one-liners also throughout the thread, as with any thread on here. If you want some specifically pointed out, see Petrae's for example.
Nintendo has undergone a relatively unsuccessful period over which Iwata presided, including two botched launches, one that's been turned around but at great cost. Discussion of his potential departure is warranted.
Also, it's just video games. I'd advise growing a thicker skin rather than getting upset for no real reason.