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[Pillville]

I think you can still connect to the internet and buy things if you get banned from live.

There are 2 types of bans:

Account Bans: You did something offensive, that Xbox Live ACCOUNT is not allowed to login anymore from anywhere. You can create another account and use it on that console.

Console Bans: MS Detected that your console is modded and has banned that PHYSICAL CONSOLE from using ANY online features (Ethernet port effectively becomes non-functioning). Your account if unharmed, you can login to Live from another console.


If the "online-required" is true, and you get a console ban, then your console is probably worthless.

 

[Gustav]

Can someone explain to me why this is not as bad as everyone initially thought?

It could be a Steam like system, only requiring Internet connection on initial setup and registration of new software/content.

 

[ascii42]

forza is no where near as big

Right, but there's no reason why it couldn't be as big.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Can someone explain to me why this is not as bad as everyone initially thought?

Like I said, it could possibly require authentication every few days or so (transparent to the user) to validate licenses and such. That's just a theory, but there are ways to implement things other than LOL YOUR CONNECTION IS DOWN FOR 3 MINUTES NO GAMING FOR YOU.

If true it reduces my chances of buying the system, still.

 

[The Real Napsta]

when is the last time you guys used a console that had no ethernet cable plugged into it ?

Every Wii gamer?

 

[RobotRocker]

Yeah i can sorta understand it for Killzone, i personally did not enjoy those games, at least nowhere near as much as i enjoyed the first 3 Halo games.

But Forza is absolutely a great series, not a single bad game of the bunch, maybe its marketing on MS side. I never see Forza adds anywhere, while i see Gran Turismo at racing events, whether it be F1, motorcross and all sorts of racing events

MS were really pushing Forza 4 ads the year it was out during Champions League games but never to the level GT was being pushed.

I'd imagine now they have a foothold with the series and with GT a bit weaker than before (GT Has name value but holy hell did GT5 piss a lot of people off with how obnoxious it got with PS2 car models, load times, massive patches and career mode), they could probably start really hammering into GT's market share if they get the marketing correct and start taking advantage of an audience who could be wavering on GT thanks to GT5's quality dip.

In essence, Microsoft can become the Monster Energy to Sony's Red Bull if they seize it right.

I suppose P.Cars can be the Relentless as well.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Thanks. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Everyone is overlooking the RRoD issue we had this gen.

Are some of y'all really thinking about buying launch after that stunt MS pulled? Better stay vigilant.

I don't think we're going to see manufacturing/design issues quite as bad this gen just because getting slapped with a billion dollars in a writedown and an eternal hit to their product line's reputation is so directly negative for them. I agree that it should be a concern somewhere, but I don't see how low-power hardware for this coming set of consoles is going to be anywhere near as likely to break down the same way, especially when even the classic motorized disc drives issues are being dealt with by forcing more HDD use (another moving part, true enough).

 

[Bedlam]

So this guy wants to reassure us always on isn't draconian, but he doesn't even know if the console can play games without a connection (which is exactly what we're all worried about)?

Exactly my thoughts.

Anyway, if there is any sort of connection required to play (or even just start) a game, then it's exactly as draconian as I believe.

 

[Xanadu]

For people that have played both games this gen which one is the better overall title? I am not into these games at all but find the fanbases behind them to be extremely devoted.

they both have their ups and downs, i dont like the direction forza has gone in with their more casual features but forza beats gt in some areas so i'd say they are about equal. i do think GT5 was a better game overall than forza 4, many will disagree though

 

[SniperHunter]

GT's image might get tarnished if the rumors of GT6 coming to PS3 are true. While the next Forza is coming to Durango and looks mind blowing..

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Sorry, I don't know how people share tweets (screenshots?), but:

Since when is "we didn't want your money anyway" an acceptable mantra for a competitive business?

I just don't understand this casual dismissal of the 30+ million 360 owners who never use the internet.

 

[Xanadu]

Right, but there's no reason why it couldn't be as big.

i dont think forza feels as special as GT, when a GT game launches its a huge event, but when a forza launches its just another game with a few more features, maybe its to do with how often they bring out new games idk

 

[nasos_333]

499$ for a under specced console is pushing it.

If it is under speced comparing to PS4, then it will simply fail

My guess is that the rumors cant be true and 720 could be way ahead of PS4, especially if that price is for real

 

[SniperHunter]

If it is under speced comparing to PS4, then it will simply fail

My guess is that the rumors cant be true and 720 could be way ahead of PS4, especially if that price is for real

Nope...specs don't matter in the console realm. PS2 was significantly weaker than Xbox and Gamecube, Wii was significantly weaker than PS360....etc etc hell even the PSX was significantly weaker to DC and it still beat it.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 2h
Here Comes the Next Xbox http://bit.ly/17X8Gbx

Regis Didion ‏@regis57200 2h
@thurrott so it's "no internet = no games" ? What's next ? No used games?

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 2h
@regis57200 No idea.

jeremy ‏@muleyman79 2h
@thurrott @regis57200 if this is true i'm out

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 1h
@muleyman79 @regis57200 If that's true, you were never in the target demographic for the Xbox.

Hey Paul, you are a fucking idiot.

I've paid for a Live GOLD account for 12 years. If you think I'm not in Microsoft's demographic, you are soft in the head.

I won't buy a system that stops gaming if it can't talk to daddy. I remember when PSN was out for over three weeks.

That doesn't mean I'm not in the target demographic. It means I'm a consumer who respects himself aka that I'm not a fucking sheep.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Right, but there's no reason why it couldn't be as big.

There's also no reason that Killzone couldn't be as big as Halo or Call of Duty.
It's just brand power. It's not going to change overnight.

 

[QaaQer]

Thurrott reporting on this essentially confirms that Xbox will have some form of always-online aspect to it.

He's one of the best sources we can get about MS internal plans...he knows a lot of people.



And his wording is clear:
The next Xbox must be internet-connected to use.

So no internet = can't use the next Xbox. Simple as that.

I know, right. What's with all the spinning damage control in the thread?

 

[heyf00L]

I'm guessing you have to register your games online before you can play them, but once registered you don't have to be online.

Think SecuROM.

 

[RoboPlato]

I wonder if the month later was to polish up games to demo better or add some features like video recording. It doesn't seem long enough for a tech spec upgrade outside of a minor clock change

I also don't understand how always online won't be draconian. We shall see.

 

[ascii42]

There's also no reason that Killzone couldn't be as big as Halo or Call of Duty.
It's just brand power. It's not going to change overnight.

True, but it's still not correct to say that MS has no answer to GT. Forza is their answer to GT, that's why it exists, even if it isn't as popular as GT. It's a good series, so anybody who buys a 720 instead of a PS4 and wants to play a simulation racer has a perfectly good option.

 

[The Real Napsta]

I'm a HUGE Halo fan (even though each game has gotten progressively worse since Halo CE) but I will not buy this console if it always has to be connected to Xbox LIVE.

 

[sflufan]

I'm guessing you have to register your games online before you can play them, but once registered you don't have to be online.

Think SecuROM.

I'd rather not recall SecuROM thank you very much!

 

[saladine1]

Sorry, I don't know how people share tweets (screenshots?), but:

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 2h
Here Comes the Next Xbox http://bit.ly/17X8Gbx

Regis Didion ‏@regis57200 2h
@thurrott so it's "no internet = no games" ? What's next ? No used games?

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 2h
@regis57200 No idea.

jeremy ‏@muleyman79 2h
@thurrott @regis57200 if this is true i'm out

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 1h
@muleyman79 @regis57200 If that's true, you were never in the target demographic for the Xbox.

Oh the pain. Sounds like Adam Orth's twin brother..

 

[Router]

Always online sounds like ass still. I guess it depends on exactly what that means (hell, the 350 was marketed back in 2005 as "always online/connected).

Everything else sounds good.

 

[heyf00L]

The other thing I see happening is banned Xboxes being sold. This is already something of a problem, as I've known a few people to buy used Xboxes that were Live banned, but at least they could still play games offline. But with this "always online" stuff, these banned Xboxes might truly be bricked.

I'd rather not recall SecuROM thank you very much!

No argument there. Even if it's as "generous" as SecuROM, it will go badly for MS.

 

[Spongebob]

I wonder if the month later was to polish up games to demo better or add some features like video recording. It doesn't seem long enough for a tech spec upgrade outside of a minor clock change.

I also don't understand how always online won't be draconian. We shall see.

Not nearly enough for a tech spec upgrade. Any significant upgrades would delay the launch by many months.

 

[SniperHunter]

I wonder if the month later was to polish up games to demo better or add some features like video recording. It doesn't seem long enough for a tech spec upgrade outside of a minor clock change

I also don't understand how always online won't be draconian. We shall see.

The PS4 event came out of nowhere. Initially MS was planning to reveal at e3. Major Nelson even put up a countdown clock to e3 earlier this year.

 

[DigitalOp]

PS4's really going to need a cheap subsidized model to compete effectively at the lower price point, too. They can't just let those customers go, because there are a LOT of them.

You think they'd do it? Ironically and hypocritically, if sony offered a subsidized PS4 model, it would get me to reconsider buying one...

Wait wait no stop... I got a PS3 with an assload of games to finish. Stop spending wreckless money Digi!!

 

[Spongebob]

Always online sounds like ass still. I guess it depends on exactly what that means (hell, the 350 was marketed back in 2005 as "always online/connected).

Everything else sounds good.

The distinction has already been made here, the next xbox will require an internet connection to even play single player games.

 

[QaaQer]

Never bought a subsided phone?. Lot's of people does even if they end paying like 300€ more in the long run.

I think it makes sense. People already pays for Gold, they won't see it as an aditional cost because they would pay for it anyway.

The thing is, everyone who buys a phone expects to pay a monthly fee for it, no so with consoles. Having to sign a two year contract isnt something many people will want to do with a console, especially if gold/platinum is going to be $19.99/mo.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

This is really interesting line of thought.

- Nextbox requires online
- You get banned from online (for whatever reason)
- You can't go online
- Therefore, system is effectively bricked?

Always online DRM can be tricky, in a extreme way of thinking the system you have bought doesn't really belong to you.

 

[Cat Party]

Always online is irrelevant to me, personally, but I am very interested in how this all plays out. The buzz is extremely negative right now, and MS is of course aware, so how will they present it? My gut says they will ignore it at the initial reveal, which will enrage GAF. Should be fun.

I also wonder if, at the end of the day, 720 will be any different than PS4 in this regard, whether based on console or publisher requirements. That is, even if PS4 allows offline play, what if the games don't?

 

[GoofsterStud]

But what exactly is Sony gonna offer from Plus when PS4 doesn't seem like it will have BC at launch (and they aren't just gonna give you PS4 games for free at launch I would think)? Plus seems like something they would hold off on for a few months much like they did with Vita. But then maybe they have new and more appealing plans for Plus on PS4 (at launch) that obviously I'm not privy to.

You know they could easily emulate the PSV and PSP on PS4 right?

Problem solved initially.

 

[Bedlam]

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 2h
Here Comes the Next Xbox http://bit.ly/17X8Gbx

Regis Didion ‏@regis57200 2h
@thurrott so it's "no internet = no games" ? What's next ? No used games?

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 2h
@regis57200 No idea.

jeremy ‏@muleyman79 2h
@thurrott @regis57200 if this is true i'm out

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 1h
@muleyman79 @regis57200 If that's true, you were never in the target demographic for the Xbox.

That sounds downright Gies'ian or Orth'ish.

What a load of bullshit.

I will definitely NOT buy the next Xbox is those rumors are true. And my main gaming console was a 360 for this entire generation (I appreciated its OPTIONAL online capabilities; however, I use it offline a lot as well due to various circumstances). Apparently I was wrong and should've went with a PS3 or a new PC instead. Well, that mistake will be corrected when the next generation of consoles arrives.

 

[FonkyByNature]

As much as i hate Microsoft direction and their absolute focus of making the Xbox brand entertainement mostly, seeing Ballmer talking about Xbox and never mentioning games or mostly downplaying them makes me sick as a passionate gamer.

But, i think they're gonna dominate the next-generation again big time. The focus on all-in-one box is going to work and lets be honest, MS has done an amazing job making the Xbox a great multimedia machine that is easy to use and very integrated. They do have some games that i care about but they still don't care about gaming as much as Sony does.

I'm leaning towards a PS4 for next gen but i really really hope Sony doesn't fuck up their system this time around. What i mean by that is i want to have a system that plays well with updates, no more shitty downtimes, i want store updates that are well timed and features like party chat and stuff that work easily and well integrated, because you can bet Microsoft will make the next Xbox so easy and so integrated with everything from tablets to phones that people will jump in again.

For me Sony have by far the best games and the best philosophy of what gaming is than Microsoft. I want them this time to make a system that works well with features and updates and overall easy to use. This alone is one reason why i used my 360 more this gen, even though i don't want to give my money to Microsoft.

This gen the 360 had it all on the functionality front, easy to use, party chat, fast updates and downloads, most 3rd party games looking better... and it was the cheaper console to boot, which also helps a lot.

And for those who say Microsoft has Forza. Well look at the sales of Forza and compare that to the beast that is Gran Turismo. Forza 3-4 didn't even make the top 5 sales of the month when released. It was never a mega success, so much that MS had to give it in a package with the console. Don't get me wrong, it's a great game but racing fans always chose GT.

 

[heyf00L]

The thing is, everyone who buys a phone expects to pay a monthly fee for it, no so with consoles. Having to sign a two year contract isnt something many people will want to do with a console, especially if gold/platinum is going to be $19.99/mo.

Nah. Lots of people have been paying for Live for years and years now. They'll buy it subsidized easy. I would expect a lot more off the console price than $100 though.

 

[DigitalOp]

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 2h
Here Comes the Next Xbox http://bit.ly/17X8Gbx

Regis Didion ‏@regis57200 2h
@thurrott so it's "no internet = no games" ? What's next ? No used games?

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 2h
@regis57200 No idea.

jeremy ‏@muleyman79 2h
@thurrott @regis57200 if this is true i'm out

Paul Thurrott ‏@thurrott 1h
@muleyman79 @regis57200 If that's true, you were never in the target demographic for the Xbox.

Can I take this as confirmation? Didn't he pretty much confirm it with this??

 

[Router]

The distinction has already been made here, the next xbox will require an internet connection to even play single player games.

It's not official. Even though Paul is reliable I'm waiting for Microsoft to say before I jump ship.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Can I take this as confirmation? Didn't he pretty much confirm it with this??

Nope

 

[DigitalOp]

Nope

Aww I was ready to light my torch and grab my pitchfork

 

[QaaQer]

It could be a Steam like system, only requiring Internet connection on initial setup and registration of new software/content.

Then Thurott is a poor writer. Something like "xbox requires connection to activate games" or "internet connection required, but it doesn't have to be constant" would describe the steam model, not "connection required to operate". But we'll see in May i guess.

 

[Appollowexx]

Surely it can't be always online for games as well. What if the internet connection in your home goes down, or if there is a PS3 type hack and it's offline for a month, or your account is banned from live???

This would backfire in all sorts of ways if true.

 

[Gustav]

Then Thurott is a poor writer. Something like "xbox requires connection to activate games" or "internet connection required, but it doesn't have to be constant" would describe the steam model, not "connection required to operate". But we'll see in May i guess.

Well, for the initial setup it would definitely require one to operate. But, yeah, we'll see.

 

[Alec]

Can I take this as confirmation? Didn't he pretty much confirm it with this??

I think he is just tired of the "fuck it, I'm out" mentality. It's all we've been hearing for weeks and I am ready to start seeing people stop using their words and start using their wallets (in November).

 

[Goldenroad]

So, based on the OP, this Paul guy is saying:

"Nextbox will need to be always on to use"

So a person asks him:

"Really, even to play games?"

To which he replies:

"I have no idea".

So basically, he's saying that he has no idea if Durango will need to be always online to use...so, why is this news? I don't know either...someone should make a thread about that.

 

[abadguy]

Thurrott reporting on this essentially confirms that Xbox will have some form of always-online aspect to it.

He's one of the best sources we can get about MS internal plans...he knows a lot of people.



And his wording is clear:
The next Xbox must be internet-connected to use.

So no internet = can't use the next Xbox. Simple as that.

I know, right. What's with all the spinning damage control in the thread?

 

[Spongebob]

As much as i hate Microsoft direction and their absolute focus of making the Xbox brand entertainement mostly, seeing Ballmer talking about Xbox and never mentioning games or mostly downplaying them makes me sick as a passionate gamer.

But, i think they're gonna dominate the next-generation again big time. The focus on all-in-one box is going to work and lets be honest, MS has done an amazing job making the Xbox a great multimedia machine that is easy to use and very integrated. They do have some games that i care about but they still don't care about gaming as much as Sony does.

I'm leaning towards a PS4 for next gen but i really really hope Sony doesn't fuck up their system this time around. What i mean by that is i want to have a system that plays well with updates, no more shitty downtimes, i want store updates that are well timed and features like party chat and stuff that work easily and well integrated, because you can bet Microsoft will make the next Xbox so easy and so integrated with everything from tablets to phones that people will jump in again.

For me Sony have by far the best games and the best philosophy of what gaming is than Microsoft. I want them this time to make a system that works well with features and updates and overall easy to use. This alone is one reason why i used my 360 more this gen, even though i don't want to give my money to Microsoft.

This gen the 360 had it all on the functionality front, easy to use, party chat, fast updates and downloads, most 3rd party games looking better... and it was the cheaper console to boot, which also helps a lot.

And for those who say Microsoft has Forza. Well look at the sales of Forza and compare that to the beast that is Gran Turismo. Forza 3-4 didn't even make the top 5 sales of the month when released. It was never a mega success, so much that MS had to give it in a package with the console. Don't get me wrong, it's a great game but racing fans always chose GT.

Come December, I think many will be eating crow when they realize that gaming is a far more important in driving sales than multimedia features.

 

[2MF]

So, based on the OP, this Paul guy is saying:

"Nextbox will need to be always on to use"

So a person asks him:

"Really, even to play games?"

To which he replies:

"I have no idea".

So basically, he's saying that he has no idea if Durango will need to be always online to use...so, why is this news? I don't know either...someone should make a thread about that.

I find it hard to understand what he means. Maybe he's just parroting a quote from someone.

 

[Schnozberry]

It's not official. Even though Paul is reliable I'm waiting for Microsoft to say before I jump ship.

Even though always online is a huge elephant in the room for Microsoft, I think the price is a bigger barrier for the success of the console. $499 is going to make a lot of people look elsewhere. Even if Sony can come in $50 cheaper, it will make a significant difference. Anybody who has worked retail can tell you why things are priced at $99.99 instead of $100. The psychology of pricing is kind of a strange thing to study. Hell, if Nintendo can get their OS fixed and some games out for the holiday, a lot of people buying for kids/grandkids will give them a second look, especially if the Wii U gets as price drop and is several hundred dollars cheaper than it's competitors with no contract attached.