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PA Report - The Xbox One will kill used games, that's good

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
That article sounds like some real pipe-dreaming naivety. Price drops and Steam-style sales, really? I have a hard time EA and Activision will just open their long-sealed boxes of happiness and rainbows to bestow upon the console market reasonable pricing all due to the death of used game sales.
 

Kingbrave

Member
A year or 2 ago this forum was up in arms about how used games take away from the developer. DOWN WITH GAMESTOP! Now everyone supports them? lol

But yeah i dont think banning used games is going to make the prices go down on anything, they could go up because thats the only way you can get them

Because GAF is a single entity?
 

JABEE

Member
Sounds more like Ben Kuchera is looking out for his developer friends than his neck-bearded readership. That's what I think people feel when they write editorials like this.
 

Baleoce

Member
Once that secondary market is removed you can suddenly profit from every copy of your game sold, and as profit margins rise it's possible we'll see prices drop.

Possible, but not likely. In the slightest.
 

Guevara

Member
Prices already are under tremendous pressure at 60. All but the top sellers drop almost instantly.
I've thought this for a while, $60 is not a mass market price. If games started at $20, the entire industry would be healthier. But budgets might have to be adjusted downwards.
 

jay

Member
A year or 2 ago this forum was up in arms about how used games take away from the developer. DOWN WITH GAMESTOP! Now everyone supports them? lol

This forum isn't made up of three people, so characterizing everyone as one thing and now everyone as another is stupid. Everyone knows that.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Anyway, it's happening. We can finally see the numbers speak for themselves if this will work or not.

Just two points to think about:

1) The PS3 enjoyed a few years free of piracy and software sales weren't dramatically better for that.

2) The 3DS is still piracy-free and it's software attach ratio isn't nowhere as good as the DS, which was piracy laden.

Both of which didn't need to rely on DRM online checks as well.
 

Deadstar

Member
So sure, the used game market for xbox would be gone, but it would still be there for the PS4. This would only increase the popularity of the PS4.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Found this part interesting.

"Without the used market sucking up all those sales and all that consumer money, it's very possible we'll see Steam-style sales on older or bundled games on the Xbox One. It's not a sure thing, but killing used games is going to free up a ton of money for companies to try new ideas in terms of sales and pricing. The people who get innovative and take advantage of this structure will thrive. The rest are likely to slowly choke on the new economics of game development."

I know M$ is shooting for a different business model with the Xbone but I will believe this when I see it. Right now their store is prices are a complete joke and it seems to me M$ is trying to get every penny from every sale. I am not buying for a second we will see prices like steam.

Agreed - this sentence is incredibly naieve.
 

M3d10n

Member
Xbox One is painting a huge target on itself for hackers with this DRM. People are gonna have more incentive to pirate with no used games market.

I mean, you can't even bring a game to a friend's. lol

At the very least people will try to hack their servers like crazy. Can you imagine the devastating effects of a PSN-style downtime on a console that becomes useless after 24 hours without calling home?
 
Trade ins enable new game purchase to the detriment of first hand older release purchases. The used game business is the reason game sales die after the initial month or so; people just buy second hand copies. 2 month old games need massive price cuts or can't conpete with second hand copies. It's not a healthy system unless you want every game to be a CoD that sells millions day 1.
 
Can we just have a thread where we nail dishonest journalists and companies to the wall? I hear one thing like this, and I'm done with them. Ben Kuchera should be forever publicized for this garbage.
 

Ensoul

Member
I got to the second sentence and I had to stop reading. How in the world would blocking used sales stop piracy? Wouldn't that just give pirates an even bigger incentive to pirate?

According to the article since X1 does a "check" every 24 hours to insure the licences are legit. We will see if people find away around it.
 

RetroStu

Banned
I'm not trying to start any conspiracy shite or anything but when you read some of these articles and read what some of these 'analysts' say etc, it really does make you think that they are being paid to say it by the manufacturers and publishers.
 

JABEE

Member
I wonder what Don Mattrick did to make Ben Kuchera feel special when he was writing this story. It sounds like it was straight from his mouth to Kuchera's ears. The fantasy land in his article doesn't exist. This is a case of a bait and switch. Prices will go up.
 
I just think this is so wrong. Used games are a critical source of consumer liquidity, and they liquidity is often used to purchase NEW games.

I'm about ready for every publisher to reap what they've sown with this broken AAA model. They'll learn.

This is pretty much the way I'm looking at it at this point. Let them take used games away and then realize that it wasn't the culprit for the industry suffering.

Without being able to sell/trade used games I plan to buy less new games next gen.

Hell the bulk of my Xbone and PS4 purchase will be funded by used games I sold/traded in. Ironic.
 

Jawmuncher

Member
Again, I'll post what I said in the Wired thread, because I'm lazy.

Who is asking for games that cost into $100 million dollars and took an entire generation to make? Would the sales be impacted if that were halved or quartered? Is there enough sales potential (realistic, actual sales potential, none of this "it might sell better than Pokemon" bullshit)?

The industry aimed too high, suddenly started ballooning budgets, and then went "oh god there aren't any sales here to cover it up." Their response to this? Homogenize, wring the AAA space of any creativity and put the advertising on full blast. But we can't have smaller budgets, oh no. We've got to have our mo-capped dogs and celebrity voice actors that nobody asked for. We've got to cover the cost of letting you develop your game for five years because you have no direction. We've got to cover you trying to wedge into an already saturated market of shooters and brown, and then failing miserably.

And then, time and time again, the consumers are expected to show up at the door every time these developers come out with some new way to make the package look worse. Oh, now you get half the content. Oh, now we're going to sell you that content back to you over a period of a year. Oh, now we're placing your game's access on computers you don't control, and then those computers won't work. Oh, now the game doesn't actually belong to you, it never did.

If the industry was smart, they would have had a linear progression of costs, but they're run by idiots who don't understand the market. Instead, they're baking these stupid anti-consumer things into the console, and selling the console on silly TV fluff and apps that half your entertainment center already runs. Because, sure, that will get people to buy a $500 monolith instead of a $50 Roku. Who the hell comes up with this shit?

I agree with everything here.
Still I'm a little scared as to what'll happen when this caves on them.
 
Oh sure, killing used games is great!

I also thing the author of the article should be banned from buying used cars, dvds, books and anything else that comes to mind. The idea that games are somehow "special" or "different" is just a bunch of crap.
 

Casimir

Unconfirmed Member
People pay attention to the Penny-Arcade Report? They're just as bad as Polygon/Kotaku at times.

I always check and see who the author is first. In this case its a Ben Kuchera opinion piece so right of the bat you know it's going to be a sad blog post full of childlike reasoning. Followed by dismissal of all legitimate criticism over twitter.
 
Edit on the more general issue: it's kind of amazing and depressing to see all these publications go into overdrive mode to damage control the negative points of that XO reveal. These guys are going out of their way to justify something that is ultimately a regression compared to what you enjoy today. Way to cement the notion that you're nothing but outsourced and talentless PR.


Anyway, it's happening. We can finally see the numbers speak for themselves if this will work or not.

Just two points to think about:

1) The PS3 enjoyed a few years free of piracy and software sales weren't dramatically better for that.

2) The 3DS is still piracy-free and it's software attach ratio isn't nowhere as good as the DS, which was piracy laden.
Bingo.

Regarding point 1, do you remember when all these PS3 games were cheaper than their Xbox counterparts?
 

AkuMifune

Banned
Not suprised so much of the gaming press "understands" these things being that alot of them are budy budy with developers and getting to play alot of free game

Normally I would call this ridiculous, but seriously, we need one of those color-coded topical maps to show which outlets have been positive about this conference commercial, and I guarantee the northwest would be all blue. Even just hearing Ryan Davis mention people he knows at Turn 10 talking about the system, dude I love you, but..don't you see how over the course of this generation you've been compromised by your friendships?

It's kind of gross in that context. It's kind of really gross.
 

nib95

Banned
Trade ins enable new game purchase to the detriment of first hand older release purchases. The used game business is the reason game sales die after the initial month or so; people just buy second hand copies. 2 month old games need massive price cuts or can't conpete with second hand copies. It's not a healthy system unless you want every game to be a CoD that sells millions day 1.

Depends on supply and demand etc. There's not always used games of whatever game you want available, it depends on how many people bought it new and traded it in. So often the better, or less popular games you have to buy at higher prices or new anyway. Or at discount prices new, which is fine. The same as any media really.
 

1-D_FTW

Member
Pays to be rich, slackjaws.

To anyone complaining, do your own one million dollar kickstarter. Stop complaining.

Normally I would call this ridiculous, but seriously, we need one of those color-coded topical maps to show which outlets have been positive about this conference commercial, and I guarantee the bay area would be all blue. Even just hearing Ryan Davis mention people he knows at Turn 10 talking about the system, dude I love you, but..don't you see how over the course of this generation you've been compromised by your friendships?

It's kind of gross in that context. It's kind of really gross.

Ignoring the buddy relationship, the pay POV is huge. There's a total disconnect for this very reason. They just have zero understanding of the market they're covering. Because they're not spending any money for their games. Which is the genesis of all grievances and leaves them clueless.
 

ASIS

Member
Ugh, if the market is unsustainable then guess what you can do? Either expand your audience or REDUCE. THE FUCKING. COSTS!

This whole affair of abusing current consumers is NOT a solution.
 

spookyfish

Member
"... and as profit margins rise it's possible we'll see prices drop ... Without the used market sucking up all those sales and all that consumer money, it's very possible we'll see Steam-style sales on older or bundled games on the Xbox One."

OK, then. That's when I'll buy. Not before and hope for it -- but when this actually happens.

I'm not optimistic, though.

And these practices aren't going to save the industry. It's going to have just the opposite effect: Contraction to niche status, if they're lucky.
 

JCreasy

Member
According to the article since X1 does a "check" every 24 hours to insure the licences are legit. We will see if people find away around it.

Someone else here said it best - it's like having to check in with your parole officer.

Terrible.
 

Dragon

Banned
Found this conversation between Justin McElroy and Patrick Klepeck interesting:

0zHtZ3K.png


McElroy loving dat slippery slope.
 
Trade is a foundation of open markets, it strengthens the consumer and adds value to a purchase. The pirates out there shouldn't ruin it for the many people that can't afford to not take part in this sort of market.

However, I hope that Xbone aggressively blocks used/rental games. We all need to see how this pans out.
 

Dunlop

Member
If there's one thing I'm learning from all this, it's who in the journalism field doesn't have a fucking clue about anything.

As opposed to the knee jerk reactions on this site? The industry at the moment is not healthy, they are trying a new model.

Will it work? Probably not, but they need to try something and the start of a new generation is the time do do it.

Why people think Microsoft created the new model as opposed to taking in feedback from publishers is baffling.

If a game is being released with a CD key for the XBox, you can take bets that it will doing the same thing on the PS4 and Sony will be praised here because they are "leaving it up to the Publisher" instead of putting their foot down and outright refusing.

Prove me wrong Sony
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Ugh, if the market is unsustainable then guess what you can do? Either expand your audience or REDUCE. THE FUCKING. COSTS!

This whole affair of abusing current consumers is NOT a solution.

INCREASE THE COSTS AND REDUCE THE CUSTOMER BASE!

Genius!
 

jay

Member
Ugh, if the market is unsustainable then guess what you can do? Either expand your audience or REDUCE. THE FUCKING. COSTS!

This whole affair of abusing current consumers is NOT a solution.

Games cost too much so we should stop used game sales. If only there were a more obvious solution.
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
This is actually embarrassing and aggravating to read.
 

DrLazy

Member
I think Used Games are hurthing the market. I think "sales" and developer sanctioned price drops and lower prices are the way to go.

The fact you get like 75% of your sales in the first month is unhealthy for the industry. Steam is a much better model.
 
This is pretty much the way I'm looking at it at this point. Let them take used games away and then realize that it wasn't the culprit for the industry suffering.

Without being able to sell/trade used games I plan to buy less new games next gen.

Hell the bulk of my Xbone and PS4 purchase will be funded by used games I sold/traded in. Ironic.

That's what EA and Activision and Ubisoft hope. That way they can spend less money competing and building compelling products, and more time dominating sales. When people buy three games a year because of the new paradigm, they are counting on the majority buying their tent pole games.

This is a classic business contraction scheme on a huge stage
 
gaf is always a tear fest with candlelight vigils everytime a studio is closed yet a system that helps the industry stay alive and profitable is being demonized.

Oh please.

Idiot publishers are responsible for studio closures. Last I checked plenty of indie studios thrive on PC where piracy is as easy as checking your e-mail.
 
Depends on supply and demand etc. There's not always used games of whatever game you want available, it depends on how many people bought it new and traded it in. So often the better, or less popular games you have to buy at higher prices or new anyway. Or at discount prices new, which is fine. The same as any media really.

People just seem to look at this as "a traded in game enables a first hand purchase". But it also enables a second hand purchase for someone else that takes away a new sale and benefits no one but GameStop.

Whether or not you think that's a problem is a personal decision, but people ignore the fact the 3 games you trade in to buy GTA5 are 3 lost new sales for those games.
 
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