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[maltrain]

They should add "sponsored by Microsoft" at the bottom of the "article".

 

[RedNumberFive]

These idiots at PA have really been coming out of the woodwork lately. Perhaps we should launch a Kickstarter to help them get a clue.

 

[RoadHazard]

Thinking that this could result in cheaper games is hilariously naive. Publishers won't be doing this to be nice to their customers, they'll be doing it to make more money. Fucking simple.

 

[Kingbrave]

"Hey let's blame the consumers and not take responsibility for our own business models!!"

That's what I get out of the article. I don't even buy used games myself, but it still irks me that they would try and stop other people from buying used. I see it as a way to get a customer interested in your products who normally wouldn't of bought said product.

Also, how many people trade in games to retailers that help them purchase new games?

 

[dorkimoe]

How can so many people not understand that the used game market supports the new game market?

A year or 2 ago this forum was up in arms about how used games take away from the developer. DOWN WITH GAMESTOP! Now everyone supports them? lol

But yeah i dont think banning used games is going to make the prices go down on anything, they could go up because thats the only way you can get them

 

[jett]

 

[nib95]

Piracy is not killing the industry. Over inflating budgets and stupid decisions are killing it. Let me be clear, I'm against it, but piracy does not effect AAA. It is a straw man. If anything it may effect smaller indie titles but they usually are locked down to digital distribution on consoles anyways. Never going to read PA report again.

There are reports out there that suggest pirates are actually lucrative consumers too, in that they're also the most likely to spend their money on media, games etc. Which makes sense to me.

 

[tim.mbp]

How can so many people not understand that the used game market supports the new game market?

But if people are buying less new games because of no used games market, wouldn't prices of new games collapse because there's less demand?

 

[somesayyea]

this is an embarrassing article

 

[runningjoke]

Used games is only 1 factor in the profit projection equations. Knocking it out doesn't lower price directly. All publishers will still try to maximise profits and if they think they'll get more cash at full price, you gotta pay up.

 

[zashga]

yeah right

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahah

My thoughts exactly. It's like they don't know how corporations work or think.

Steam sales are a bad example anyway. Big games still launch at $60 on Steam.

 

[Kazerei]

The current economics are unsustainable, so let's fuck over consumers to make it work. Yay.

 

[The Faceless Master]

This is good news for a few reasons. The first is that piracy will likely be reduced. If the system phones home every so often to check on your licenses, and there is no way to play a game without that title being authenticated and a license being active, piracy becomes harder. You'll never be able to stop pirates, not entirely, but if you can make the act of pirating games non-trivial the incidence of piracy will drop. This is a good thing for everyone except those who want to play games for free.

this relies on the idea that the piracy method doesn't break the call home mechanism.

 

[VeryGooster]

I'm sorry, but the "Steam-style sales" bit is hilariously naive, even if the closest model on consoles at the moment is PS+. Whatever restrictions there are regarding secondhand games with either Xbox One or PS4, good luck to new IPs down the road, because publishers, shareholders, whoever, will still be playing this "head in the sand" game. They'll still look a thousand different ways as to why game sales are what they are, and never into a mirror.

 

[Mrbob]

You know one reason why PC gets so low prices? Market competition.

There is none for PS4 or XBONE. You are stuck to one digital marketplace to purchase games.

I just think this is so wrong. Used games are a critical source of consumer liquidity, and they liquidity is often used to purchase NEW games.

I'm about ready for every publisher to reap what they've sown with this broken AAA model. They'll learn.

Exactly.

 

[Cheesemeister]

That was good for a laugh.

 

[chubigans]

If there's one thing I'm learning from all this, it's who in the journalism field doesn't have a fucking clue about anything.

 

[Palette Swap]

and as profit margins rise it's possible we'll see prices drop.

I wish these guys could drown in that Kool Aid.

 

[ginger ninja]

there is almost no way today that will not harm the consumer AND eliminate piracy completely. That's just how things work.

 

[Ensoul]

Found this part interesting.

"Without the used market sucking up all those sales and all that consumer money, it's very possible we'll see Steam-style sales on older or bundled games on the Xbox One. It's not a sure thing, but killing used games is going to free up a ton of money for companies to try new ideas in terms of sales and pricing. The people who get innovative and take advantage of this structure will thrive. The rest are likely to slowly choke on the new economics of game development."

I know M$ is shooting for a different business model with the Xbone but I will believe this when I see it. Right now their store prices are a complete joke and it seems to me M$ is trying to get every penny from every sale. I am not buying for a second we will see prices like steam.

 

[Hakai]

Why there are people trying to defend it? I mean really? This sucks for this industry.

 

[sajj316]

To say that piracy will be reduced is laughable. To say "you can't do that" is music to the ears of those looking to crack the system. The first thing someone will try to do is destroy the security layer requiring some serial validation through the internet.

 

[BY2K]

People trade-in games to buy those 60$ games. Remove the possibility to do that, they'll buy less 60$ games.

 

[jay]

I am so happy piracy will be reduced. As a consumer, piracy is always my primary concern.

 

[The Illiterati]

Incorrect, it'll actively harm the industry. The vast majority of money raised by trade ins are spent on new games, so removing the trade in subsidy will result in lower week 1 sales for the games that aren't the biggest IPs, which means more high profile failures, more developer closures and less diversity in innovation overall. Plus prices will definitely increase to boot, which all means an increase in piracy.

QFT.

 

[Guevara]

A year or 2 ago this forum was up in arms about how used games take away from the developer. DOWN WITH GAMESTOP! Now everyone supports them? lol

But yeah i dont think banning used games is going to make the prices go down on anything, they could go up because thats the only way you can get them

Guess what? There's more to the used game market than just Gamestop. Sometimes I sell games for cash to individuals. Sometimes I just give games to people, even here on GAF.

 

[Metroidvania]

You hear that? If you have concerns about the stability of your internet connection, or live in an area of the world with limited internet access, or simply don't like the concept that your console activities must be monitored by a multinational mega corporation in order to continue to use your purchase... you "want to play games for free".

Only stinking pirates would oppose the bold vision Microsoft his bestowing upon us, clearly.

CliffyB had the same sort of bullshit in one of his tumblr blogs a while back. It's as stupid of an argument now as it was then.

But if people are buying less new games because of no used games market, wouldn't prices of new games collapse because there's less demand?

Well, yes, but in the long run, that's going to drive tons more publishers/devs out of the business, as costs have only gone up and up.

IF devs could lower costs, and then charge lower prices, the system would even out. But nothing suggests the dev side costs going down in the future, at least from a 'AAA' perspective.

I still can't fathom how people don't understand that selling games to GS/wherever is often spent on buying new games. Not all the time, obviously, but it's like some people seem to actively block the idea.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Again, I'll post what I said in the Wired thread, because I'm lazy.

It's partially the developing industry's own goddamn fault for aiming for the stars and the moon and suddenly realizing that they aimed too high. Who is asking for games that cost into $100 million dollars and took an entire generation to make? Would the sales be impacted if that were halved or quartered? Is there enough sales potential (realistic, actual sales potential, none of this "it might sell better than Pokemon" bullshit). We've seen good looking games made on smaller budgets. Look at the stuff coming out of Eastern Europe for god sakes.

The industry aimed too high, suddenly started ballooning budgets, and then went "oh god there aren't any sales here to cover it up." Their response to this? Homogenize, wring the AAA space of any creativity and put the advertising on full blast. But we can't have smaller budgets, oh no. We've got to have our mo-capped dogs and celebrity voice actors that nobody fucking asked for. We've got to cover the cost of letting you develop your game for five years because you have no direction. We've got to cover you trying to wedge into an already saturated market of shooters and brown, and then failing miserably.

And then, time and time again, the consumers are expected to show up at the door every time these developers come out with some new way to make the package look worse. Oh, now you get half the content. Oh, now we're going to sell you that content back to you over a period of a year. Oh, now we're placing your game's access on computers you don't control, and then those computers won't work. Oh, now the game doesn't actually belong to you, it never did.

If the industry was smart, they would have had a linear progression of costs, but they're run by idiots who don't understand the market. Instead, they're baking these stupid anti-consumer things into the console, and selling the console on silly TV fluff and apps that half your entertainment center already runs. Because, sure, that will get people to buy a $500 monolith instead of a $50 Roku. Who the hell comes up with this shit?

Thus we're left with the consumers having to continue putting up with shitty decisions that negatively impact their side of the transaction because the fish move out of the way. It's about time people started getting pissed off.

(edited so that it's the exact same post so nobody gets confused)

 

[jlevel13]

One of the real drags for me about this no used games system is that now if we want to play an old game we have to be dependant on the publisher keeping it in print and keeping the authencation servers running. I mean, I don't buy a ton of recent used games, but I love to check out old games I've missed and now that's going to be impossible once games go OOP (which sometimes happens very quickly)? To me it seems like a real mess. Anyway, I definitely won't bother buying an expensive console using a system like this... hopefully people are listening an re-thinking these decisions...

 

[The Faceless Master]

gaf is always a tear fest with candlelight vigils everytime a studio is closed yet a system that helps the industry stay alive and profitable is being demonized.

if they can't do it without trampling consumer rights, fuck 'em.

 

[Y2Kev]

But if people are buying less new games because of no used games market, wouldn't prices of new games collapse because there's less demand?

Prices already are under tremendous pressure at 60. All but the top sellers drop almost instantly.

 

[Xater]

As I said on Twitter this is one of the dumbest things I have read in a while and reads like a corporation apologist.

What companies like MS and EA want nothing more is sell you a copy of a game for 60 bucks, that you can never re-sell and on top of that please buy some more DLC. They are all greedy corporations which if they are allowed to take consumer rights away will be more than happy to oblige. I am not giving my rights away on promises and fairy dust.

 

[Ace Harding]

I just think this is so wrong. Used games are a critical source of consumer liquidity, and they liquidity is often used to purchase NEW games.

I'm about ready for every publisher to reap what they've sown with this broken AAA model. They'll learn.

Except this argument doesn't work here, at least based on the model proposed in the article.

The article is saying that this can still be the case - in this model, you'd trade in your license for credit towards a new game.

It would actually be pretty brilliant. The biggest loser would be GameStop.

So you can't buy a used game for 90% of the new price, and sell it for 120% of the used price, but maybe you can sell it for 50% of the new price.

I am very, very OK with this model, but who knows how it will actually work.

 

[Ushae]

gaf is always a tear fest with candlelight vigils everytime a studio is closed yet a system that helps the industry stay alive and profitable is being demonized.

This is sadly very true. It's very hard to strike a correct balance between pleasing the developers/publishers and the consumers. I guess at the end of the day if they can give us incredible content and games most people will be satisfied. Who doesn't want the publishers to do well and make better games in the future? Anyone remember Vigil studios? Impossible studios?

For me if they want more control over used games they need to be very reasonable about it.

- Very cheap fee, I'm talking £1 per re-activation while the retailer sells them at lowered prices. Don't take the piss and say we have to pay full price for a used copy (which loses all its preorder bonus etc).
- Steam style sales
- Cheaper new game price, I'm talking -£10 than the original .. at PC sale level

I still don't think it will be as savage as peolpe are making it out to be. And lets not forget piracy was the reason PC gaming shrunk so fucking bad, so many years ago.

 

[Pop]

I like how Microsoft will be giving me permission to play my game that I bought brand new. What the hell are they thinking....

Used games are about 80% of my purchases and my friends as well. But I don't have to worry unless Sony follows along.

 

[Tiberius]

This is good news for a few reasons. The first is that piracy will likely be reduced. If the system phones home every so often to check on your licenses, and there is no way to play a game without that title being authenticated and a license being active, piracy becomes harder.

Like ubisoft uplay drm ... Oh wait !

 

[M3d10n]

Anyway, it's happening. We can finally see the numbers speak for themselves if this will work or not.

Just two points to think about:

1) The PS3 enjoyed a few years free of piracy and software sales weren't dramatically better for that.

2) The 3DS is still piracy-free and it's software attach ratio isn't nowhere as good as the DS, which was piracy laden.

 

[onimushroom]

Make legal customers jump through hoops to "stop piracy", giving pirates all the more incentive to target your system.
And give customers less purchasing options, because that is also "a good thing".

 

[DirtyManos]

Honest, sincere question: is console game piracy even a noticeable problem?

Otherwise, this article is full of shit. Coming from Kuchera, who fancies himself as some journalist at the forefront, the article makes baseless (even historically disproven) arguments about MS reasoning behind the X1.

Used games cannot bring down a developer single handedly. Kuchera is so angry, even implying all this stuff we hate is our fault, that he won't have developers/publishers take even some of the blame for piss poor management, budgeting, and vision.

This is consumer-bashing, corporate-defending, assumption-filled, baseless writing at its worst.

 

[Toki767]

The only thing that is sure to happen with no used games is that less people will be playing your games. Companies will still be going out of business.

 

[liquidtmd]

Piracy is not killing the industry. Over inflating budgets and stupid decisions are killing it

This right here.

Tomb Raider: Massive budget, massive advertising, great game. Sells nigh over 4 million copies.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming...um-sellers-like-tomb-raider-a-disappointment/

Square Enix: We are disappointed in Tomb Raiders sales.

Dark Souls: Low budget, low advertising, great game. Amazing word of mouth. Very profitable. Namco-Bandais response? WE WILL MASSIVELY UP THE MARKETING BUDGET FOR TEH SEQUEL.

http://operationrainfall.com/dark-souls-2-marketing-aaa-title/

AAA means quality and big in scope for me - not throwing money under the bus and hoping something sticks.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I just think this is so wrong. Used games are a critical source of consumer liquidity, and they liquidity is often used to purchase NEW games.

I'm about ready for every publisher to reap what they've sown with this broken AAA model. They'll learn.

Yeah, while publisher may not like it, many gamers are comfortable beating a game and then returning it. They aren't really interested in future DLC. But when they do return a game they put that money toward another game. Not everyone is a collector.

 

[H_Prestige]

WTF does blocking used games have to do with piracy?

MS also blocks used copies of Windows but it still gets pirated to hell and back.

This isn't an anti-piracy measure. It's about MS wanting total control over retail game software and getting $$$ out of every second hand trade. That's it.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

...

right click
save

 

[nib95]

But if people are buying less new games because of no used games market, wouldn't prices of new games collapse because there's less demand?

As would the industry, profits etc across the board. The used game market is essential to the industry imo. It's the used game market that lets many gamers buy dozens and dozens of games a year. You buy one, trade it in to buy a new one, rinse repeat times 30+. If you didn't have that option, goodbye to 30 new sales. 30 x the price of a new game on release is a LOT of money.

 

[GuardianE]

Article reads like the horribly uninformed opinion that it is.

 

[RetroStu]

Why there are people trying to defend it? I mean really? This sucks for this industry.

Its so annoying to me when people defend this shit, i mean even if you never buy used games or trade games, don't fucking defend it ffs.

 

[soulassssns]

gaf is always a tear fest with candlelight vigils every time a studio is closed yet a system that helps the industry stay alive and profitable is being demonized.

I am literally going to laugh my ass off when used games is no more and NEW game sales still do not increase.

 

[BadAss2961]

Xbox One is painting a huge target on itself for hackers with this DRM. People are gonna have more incentive to pirate with no used games market.

I mean, you can't even bring a game to a friend's. lol

 

[pieatorium]

Not suprised so much of the gaming press "understands" these things being that alot of them are budy budy with developers and getting to play alot of free game