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[Refreshment.01]

Do you think this is a feather in your cap? Most people saw the train wreck coming. My point was, people dont just buy anything you throw at them. And the idea that this wont hurt them is just silly. Sure they may still be successful, but if you are arguing that they will be just as successful with this policy, I think you are kidding yourself.

The prediction, as soon as i did? Not many my friend, i even got what the product was about sooner than even most outlets. F*cking great feather in my cap that i will be proud to sport until the grave. Anyway, the Wii U is a bad example because no one (so far) is interested in the product, it hasn't anything to do with Nintendo adopting some draconian BS sales method or anti consumer policy.

People, chose to pay for "online play", BS DLC, season passes, etc. Wtf, else you need prove for? Nintendo was losing relevance since the SNES days, it took some ONE in a life time genious product for them to lead the console space for some years.

As for success, is just a matter if the industry decides to conform to this policiy. If big publishers give it a go, then SOny is the next one to announce a similar model. Is just the way things are in this industry. Thats where the industry is heading, I.E. the DD model is one step closer to a companies wet dream, cloud gaming is the perfect realisation of the fantasy.

Get used to it, gamers set themselves their own grave here.

 

[Foffy]

Fuck me.

No, really, I want you to fuck me.

Get in line, I called first!

 

[victimroyalty]

So... how long do people think before someone figures out how to hack and mod that thing to play used / free games?

 

[Jocchan]

If I could hug Burai's post, I would. It really can't be quoted enough.

 

[szaromir]

Excellent post by Burai, it's hard to disagree.

Microsoft has left the door wide open for next gen. Sony's got a tremendous opportunity here.

For now both companies' stance is the same. "we're going to allow used games but we're yet to announce exact policies". Given how Sony was all over the online pass concept the moment EA introduced the idea I don't think their strategy will be different from Microsoft's one.

People have taken Sony's confused and often vague PR to mean that by no means will any of this anti-consumer stuff happen on their console. There are going to be a lot of sad gaffers.

Yeah, I think that's how it'll turn out.

 

[unbias]

The prediction, as soon as i did? Not many my friend, i even got what the product was about sooner than even most outlets. F8cking great feather in my cap that i will be proud of until the grave.

People, chose to pay for "online play", BS DLC, season passes, etc. Wtf, else you need prove for? Nintendo was losing relevance since the SNES days, it took for them some ONE in a life time genious product for them to lead the console space for some years.

As for success, is just a matter if the industry decides to conform to this policiy. If big publishers give it a go, then SOny is the next one to announce a similar model. Is just the way things are in this industry. That where the industry is heading, I.E. the DD model is one step closer to a companies wet dream, cloud gaming is the perfect realisation of the fantasy.

Huh? This isnt even in the same ballpark. The second hand market isn't just some version of bad DLC or a season pass. The second hand game market is quite large, it is just plain ignorant to think that the 2nd hand market doesn't play a large part in the economy, even more specifically with the game console industry. You can claim that is "just the way the industry is" but you are pretending that the console market is recession proof or something. You are sounding like a housing speculator back in 2006. IF they hit the second hand market in any way the deters the use of it, each system that participates will get hit hard.

 

[sephi22]

That post needs more love. Could a mod maybe add '[Ether at post #566]' to the thread title? That would be awesome.

Dang Burai, that's the type of venom I love. Mmm, all over my prodigious tits

LMAO

 

[drizzle]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

This exact argument is valid for Piracy on PC as well. Sadly, they didn't learn it back then, and they won't learn it this generation.

 

[jschreier]

Put it up on Kotaku then.

ok

 

[Salaadin]

Omfg those posts. Awesome. I love you both.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Huh? This isnt even in the same ballpark. The second hand market isn't just some version of bad DLC or a season pass. The second hand game market is quite large, it is just plain ignorant to think that the 2nd hand market doesn't play a large part in the economy, even more specifically with the game console industry. You can claim that is "just the way the industry is" but you are pretending that the console market is recession proof or something. You are sounding like a housing speculator back in 2006. IF they hit the second hand market in any way the deters the use of it, each system that participates will get hit hard.

You are making strawmans here. I never implied anything of the above, not in any place or post ever. You are making stuff up to argue about it.

The point im making is, that in the end complaining here does nothing, if companies impose this then videogamers just will just obey the master's will.

Do you understand now?

What these companies could implement to mitigate the effects of this anti consumer move is something for example like... say you bought a DD game, if you give up on the license the service could return some credits to expend in another game. That's where this industry is pointing, instead of you know, making a revision of the BS model they have implemented and gamers supported.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

For now both companies' stance is the same. "we're going to allow used games but we're yet to announce exact policies". Given how Sony was all over the online pass concept the moment EA introduced the idea I don't think their strategy will be different from Microsoft's one.

Sony's in a much different position than Microsoft though, due to the Japanese market. Used games are an important part of that market, and it would be difficult to envision Sony cutting them off in the way Microsoft appears to be doing. Time will tell, of course.

 

[jay]

The point im making is, that in the end complaining here does nothing, if companies impose this then videogamers just will obey the will.

I wish I didn't agree with you. Companies become emboldened enough to do this to consumers because we rarely show signs of caring about anything beyond immediate gratification.

 

[Archaix]

ok

As somebody who's never defended Kotaku, I want to apologize in advance on behalf of everybody else here for all the "LOL Kotaku steals GAF posts for story ideas" to come. Because you know they're on the way.

 

[maquiladora]

ok

He wasn't lying.

http://kotaku.com/used-games-arent-to-blame-for-all-the-video-game-indus-509593780

 

[szaromir]

Sony's in a much different position than Microsoft though, due to the Japanese market. Used games are an important part of that market, and it would be difficult to envision Sony cutting them off in the way Microsoft appears to be doing. Time will tell, of course.

Then you have to wonder why they said something about future announcements when all they could said was "it's going to work the same way it always has".

 

[unbias]

You are making strawmans here. I never implied anything of the above, not in any place or post ever. You are making stuff up to argue about it.

The point im making is, that in the end complaining here does nothing, if companies impose this then videogamers just will obey the will.

Do you understand now?

What these companies could implement to mitigate the effects of this anti consumer move is something for example like... say you bought a DD game, if you give up on the license the service could return some credits to expend in another game. That's where this industry is pointing, instead of you know, making a revision of the BS model they have implemented and gamers supported.

Sorry, but again, you are implying that the industry wont take a hit for this, by saying that gamers will just buy it anyways(you are essentially saying the game industry can do whatever it wants and still hit profit, outside of out of control budgets). You may not be intentionally saying this, but you are saying it.

If they hit the 2nd hand market, I dont care what they do to try and mitigate it, there will be a loss, and the only way they will be able to mitigate is steam like sales, and I'm willing to be they wont do what steam does. The game industry(console developers) is not impervious to rescission/contraction.

 

[GuardianE]

He wasn't lying.

http://kotaku.com/used-games-arent-to-blame-for-all-the-video-game-indus-509593780

Cool. Someone make a thread, and reference it back here.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Sony is going to take a similar approach with used games, I guarantee it. This all explains why EA both dropped Wii U development as well as online passes. Nintendo didn't play ball with the "game tied to console" idea, so they're out.

I wonder how long until Activision jumps ship on Nintendo because of this as well. At the end of the day, Nintendo ends up looking like the only company that actually gives a shit about consumer concerns.

 

[Cynar]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

Well done.

 

[sephi22]

ok

Aww you left the dick waving part out. That was the best.

 

[8sanders]

I buy used because very few games are worth $60.+DLC. I wait for <$20 price before I bite. If they bar used games I may buy their machine, but no way I buy as many games. I will just rely on Steam and my gaming rig. Whoever allows used games will get my business. This Microsoft Xbox One DRM is bullshit. No renting games or borrowing ? Fuck that

 

[jay]

Aww you left the dick waving part out. That was the best.

Kotaku censors dicks. Someone tell Kotaku.

 

[jschreier]

Kotaku censors dicks. Someone tell Kotaku.

OK, that made me laugh.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

I thought no one took Penny Arcade seriously after that whole "PA gets a MS employee fired for telling them not to sell out" back in '03/'04.

 

[truly101]

These people that believe that every used game sale = a new game sale are in for a rude awakening. Enjoy the death of consoles, folks.

 

[bigboss370]

Once that secondary market is removed you can suddenly profit from every copy of your game sold

they already do.

 

[DGRE]

You know the car market would've never crashed if car companies had killed used car sales.

 

[KnockOneOff]

Yup all the crackers/hackers will now aim for the Xbox cloud itself!

Could be an interesting situation if the playstation hack situation happened on the xbone, they would have 24 hours to fix or else everyone's console is disabled!

 

[Yagharek]

I thought no one took Penny Arcade seriously after that whole "PA gets a MS employee fired for telling them not to sell out" back in '03/'04.

Penny Arcade are fast approaching Polygon's level of relevance and apologist status.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I wish I didn't agree with you. Companies become emboldened enough to do this to consumers because we rarely show signs of caring about anything beyond immediate gratification.

Time and time again, gamers never failed to be shepherded this way by the industry. This policy would be sealing the deal on the matter for ever. This just got super interesting and i will be at the sidelines watching it all XD

Sony is going to take a similar approach with used games, I guarantee it. This all explains why EA both dropped Wii U development as well as online passes. Nintendo didn't play ball with the "game tied to console" idea, so they're out.

I wonder how long until Activision jumps ship on Nintendo because of this as well. At the end of the day, Nintendo ends up looking like the only company that actually gives a shit about consumer concerns.

You are asuming quite a bit here, not saying lie or truth on this, but comments like this should be baked up with something tangible.

Anyways, that would be one hell of a story.

 

[Revan]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

Brilliantly well said. I couldn't agree more.

 

[KnockOneOff]

You know the car market would've never crashed if car companies had killed used car sales.

It wouldn't have crashed if fuel prices/cost of living wasn't so high!

Everyone would like a brand new car, problem is the cost!

And now cars are much higher quality a 2004 model is as strong as a 2013 car these days

 

[DGRE]

It wouldn't have crashed if fuel prices/cost of living wasn't so high!

Everyone would like a brand new car, problem is the cost!

And now cars are much higher quality a 2004 model is as strong as a 2013 car these days

My sarcasm meter is broken.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

These people that believe that every used game sale = a new game sale are in for a rude awakening. Enjoy the death of consoles, folks.

It's definitely going to hit the mid-tier and low-tier games the most, especially those without multiplayer. CoD, Halo, and the like will be fine, but how many people are ponying up $60 for the next Spider-Man game Activision churns out when they can't trade it in a month or two later?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

Done and done.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

You are asuming quite a bit here, not saying lie or truth on this, but comments like this should be baked up with something tangible.

Anyways, that would be one hell of a story.

I hope I'm wrong.

I don't think I am.

 

[ramoisdead]

Seriously, I would adore a special Jimquistion dedicated to Jim reading the posts written by hardcastlemccormick and Burai in the manner he specializes in: spitting venom. These messages must spread forth to the masses.

 

[railGUN]

Come on "other side of the argument"... lets hear your rebuttal to Burai.

 

[RedSwirl]

Let's just see if Microsoft goes through with this and what happens if sales don't increase.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

Hopefully it will kill Penny Arcade Report too.

 

[Jake Tower]

Seriously, I would adore a special Jimquistion dedicated to Jim reading the posts written by hardcastlemccormick and Burai in the manner he specializes in: spitting venom. These messages must spread forth to the masses.

Yes! Jim! Perform you monkey, perform!

 

[Game Guru]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

Normally, I don't agree with you, but I'm just imagining this in the Fourth Doctor's voice and it's all the more epic.

Quite frankly, I would never buy a video game console that locks me out of used purchases, and even if... even if Sony does it as well, I won't buy their console either. If all else fails, I can just go PC-only but while PC also doesn't allow used games, I can also get games cheaper on PC because it is a relatively open platform for competition which allows for indie bundles, Amazon sales, Steam sales, DRM-Free titles, and free games. It is the same with my support for Android over iOS. I support Android because it is a more open mobile platform than iOS is. I see a video game console as being like a DVD or Blu-Ray player... I expect my console games to be treated like they were a DVD or Blu-Ray, meaning that I could sell them or buy them used. As a consumer, I am willing to accept the closed off nature of the consoles for the advantages of the used market. Without that used market, a console is nothing less than a closed off PC, so why should I get what amounts to a gimped PC when I can get the real deal?

 

[Yagharek]

Come on "other side of the argument"... lets hear your rebuttal to Burai.

They will just call him an entitled gamer and call it a day. None of the sycophants really believe it, they just want the unfettered ability to operate as a cartel.

Note by they I mean industry people and journalists who tow the official line.

 

[katkombat]

Ok so what about games that sell terribly or go out of print? What's the argument for that?

Not to mention this killing one of the ways for young kids (a very large demographic) to get games without their parents buying for them.

 

[Jocchan]

That post should be emailed to every video game publisher on the planet.

Or their shareholders.

 

[truly101]

Arguing that gamers have a moral obligation to not buy used games and support developers is really not that far from arguing gamers should buy games at full price. How much do you think the developers make when their game tanks at retail? That copy of Aliens Colonel Marines you bought for $15.00 mark down price just took food off of Timmy Game Developer Jr's table.

If you don't buy a game at full retail price, you're asshole that wants to stymie the industry and you probably hate children too.

Spoiler

and this is why I don't believe this moral handwringing bullshit over used games

 

[hatchx]

It seems to me, had they just gone digital-download only it would have been better PR and they could have done all this DRM-activation crap in the background and nobody would noticed as much.

If they are only targeting a market that has constant internet access, why not expect them to download everything at the cost of all of this activation nonsense.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

But if the problem is publishers being too ambitious, how are we going to get new IPs like Gears of War or Assassins Creed? What if Watch Dogs doesn't meet profit expectations? If gamers are only interested in what they are familiar with (Call of Duty), and not willing to try critically acclaimed titles (Lara Croft) because they are so driven by franchise mindshare (CoD "good", Lara Croft "bad"), then who is at fault?

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

ok

Good job. I really hope we start hearing more of these arguments.