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[Biker19]

Used-games hurt the industry and the gamer.

LMAO...you can't seriously believe that.

Publishers realized that if they prevent used games sales, they will make more and won't have to address the actual ways in which they are failing.

Then they're in for a big reality check when they realize that most people will refuse to buy their games if they can't trade them in.

 

[lupin23rd]

Fantastic article by Mr. Kuchera, I'm looking forward to overall new game price drops and all the wonderful deals on XBOne games from the same company that put Netflix and IE behind a paywall.

 

[Foffy]

so

i honestly don't believe kuchera is a genuinely evil sellout. i think he thinks he is speaking hard truths here.

this means he is a person who has spent most of his adult life interfacing with game publishers yet sincerely believes that if they start seeing higher profit margins there is a good chance they will take that extra money and do things like lower prices or keep studios intact after poor sales of their games.

now normally i would take this and conclude that the person in question is simply a blithering idiot, but kuchera, in the very act of writing this comedy goldmine of an article has demonstrated that he is able to receive information from the outside world, process it, and output a syntactically coherent string of sentences that communicate his mental state, so i don't think he is quite as stupid as would be necessary to actually believe all this

quite a conundrum

The thing is you only (and I do mean only) seriously hear this from people in the bubble. Those in the echo chamber, making straw-hatted comparisons to the PC market are the only delusional people who think this stuff. Every single person who has made the claims for sales and DRM on XBone being just as acceptable as it is on Steam really miss the fact that the PC platform is a vast sea of options. On a console, if these things are implemented, your choices become far smaller. You'd be a genuine fool to believe that with fewer choices, and thus less competition between competitors in that ecosystem to outshine one another that you'll see anything fucking similar to what you get on PC. In fact, you'd very likely have static, premium priced titles because of that lack of competition. Wasn't Nintendo able to get away with having Wii and DS games still be full price 2-3 years after they launched? And that's with the current ecosystem. Imagine what these companies can do if used games and all authentications had to go through them..

 

[Rimfya]

Is someone really asking how we'll get new IP's if not for $100m budgets?

How much do you think an idea costs?

 

[Dave Meltzer]

The thing is you only (and I do mean only) seriously hear this from people in the bubble. Those in the echo chamber, making straw-hatted comparisons to the PC market are the only delusional people who think this stuff. Every single person who has made the claims for sales and DRM on XBone being just as acceptable as it is on Steam really miss the fact that the PC platform is a vast sea of options. On a console, if these things are implemented, your choices become far smaller. You'd be a genuine fool to believe that with fewer choices, and thus less competition between competitors in that ecosystem to outshine one another that you'll see anything fucking similar to what you get on PC. In fact, you'd very likely have static, premium priced titles because of that lack of competition. Wasn't Nintendo able to get away with having Wii and DS games still be full price 2-3 years after they launched? And that's with the current ecosystem. Imagine what these companies can do if used games and all authentications had to go through them..

Steam has as much control over the PC market as Xbox does over the console. If Sony have better value for money games and better sales, they'll have more users. And Microsoft will have to retaliate. These consoles are competitors like Steam and Origin. It's not just about hardware, it's about platforms.

 

[MasLegio]

sorry for this but

fuck Penny Arcade and their corporate apologism for their friends in need


they do not give a fuck about the consumers or the long held tradition of ownership and right of sale

developers and publishers go under because they overestimate their projects and suck at budgeting and economy. companies go under because it is natural in a capitalistic market, and will happen more and more as the market and competition grows. IF they cant handle it, then fuck them

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Who is this Kuchera shill and why should I be listening to him? Was he given a free Xbone?

The sooner this industry stops blaming their customers for their fuckups, the better.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Ahh, a whole bunch of ad hominems against the author, mixed in many less reasonable counter-arguments.

It's like a religious thing - start from the standpoint that used games are good for the market, or that studios kill themselves, and refuse to accept anything to the contrary.

The important thing is that you have found a way to feel superior. Kudos.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Steam has as much control over the PC market as Xbox does over the console.

Wrong. Blizzard.net, GOG, Origin, uPlay, GreenManGaming, Gamersgate, Humble Bundle Store, and that's just off the top of my head. And you can get games directly from the developer. No middle men.

They were equally lame examples couched in emotion. His entire post ignores reality - reality like the CEO behind the Tomb Raider sales predictions resigning due to his performance. Not blaming used games and carrying on.

They not lame examples, they're actual legitimate examples of recent games selling poorly after a huge budget and tons of advertising. The emotion underlines but doesn't dominate the argument.

The Square CEO being outed is a perfect example of a company beginning to fail because their budgets are too big. That's the critical point. That's an argument against the article in the OP, which is who is talking about used games, and trying to convince us the industry is tanking because of them.

Instead of pointing at used games as a reason for their death, they need to realize that as a business, they're failing miserably.

 

[tafer]

Looks like second hand games and piracy became the scapegoat for executive stupidity.

And just in case, this isn't the first time Buchera plays the corporate shill asshole. He already wrote a really condescending article about the holiness that "1st day DLC" and "on-disc DLC" represent for us, dirty, ignorant gamers.

Oh and of course:

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

Bravo!

 

[Holly Caust]

LMAO...you can't seriously believe that.

This generation, the only generation after all these years, is the first generation where used games have become worst than piracy..... According to Mr. Suit At Electronic Arts.

 

[Sola Scriptura]

Can't remember where I read it, but there is a significant contingent who believes this whole "designed with the secondary market in mind" thing is really about avoiding lawsuits more than anything else. A buyer of a product legally has a right to resell it.

In other words, technically letting you sell the disc fulfills the requirements of the law, but then, of course, they add that activation fee on top of it.

 

[Dartastic]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

I saw your post through Kotaku, and I fully fucking agree with this. It's poor management. I even made a thread about it, but more geared towards the actual creation of the consoles. These are executive level screw ups. Excellent post.

 

[TryHardShounen]

This guy has the most optimistic, wishful thinking I have ever seen.

 

[plufim]

Lower prices? Hah. If anything, this will be the generation of $70 games.

 

[blitzcloud]

ahhh penny-arcade.

go back to kickstarting everything you feel like doing.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Wrong. Blizzard.net, GOG, Origin, uPlay, GreenManGaming, Gamersgate, Humble Bundle Store, and that's just off the top of my head. And you can get games directly from the developer. No middle men.

Sure. But the point is, Steam has competition from those other platforms. Xbox has competition from PS4 and (I guess) Wii U in terms of providing value. If Xbox One's marketplace never has price cuts and PS4's does, Microsoft will lose sales. That competition will force them to be competitive like GMG forces Steam.

 

[Quadraphonic]

How can so many people not understand that the used game market supports the new game market?

They also don't understand it's a split market.

It's like piracy. It's easier for business men to assume 100% of all piracy is lost sales.

Those people only buy used because others trade in used. It's far less of an effect than they know. Well, they're about to find out the hard way.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Sure. But the point is, Steam has competition from those other platforms. Xbox has competition from PS4 and (I guess) Wii U in terms of providing value. If Xbox One's marketplace never has price cuts and PS4's does, Microsoft will lose sales. That competition will force them to be competitive like GMG forces Steam.

That's fair. I hope so.

 

[ZenTzen]

you know whats funny when this guy was reporting about the PS4 and used games he didnt bother making an article saying how stupid things like this is the best thing ever, cue Xbox reveal and here it is for everyone to see

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

That post by Burai is one of the most cogent, insightful and poignant I've seen on here.

You have my reverence and deepest esteem.

 

[remnant]

That's fair. I hope so.

Its not fair. Its stupid. The big 3 compete in retail, not digital because you are locked in their system.

If u buy a bone and MS never has sales, you're boned until u buy another console, which could take months, if not years for some people. MS doesn't have to respond. They never have. Look at PS+

On the PC however, you have true competition. Alternatives and stores are easy to access.

On PC you have a much freer platform than the console oligopoly. They aren't the same.

 

[GraveRobberX]

That Burai post should be the first post anytime second hand sales are brought up in a thread, seriously, it would be an automatic win/thread shutdown post

MS and Sony have their own storefronts, they will have 0 competition, they can do w/e the fuck they like, the pubs are their buddies and they can set w/e prices/DL schemes they want

The real reason Steam works so fluently is it doesn't tie you to Valve only
You can go to amazon, gog, greenman, other countless digital stores and get the Steamworks edition
Competition breeds price wars, companies will do w/e they can to get you to be a repeat customer through their doors
On the console front all 3 companies so far, have not shown any competition against each other. They are homogenized entities that share in the pillage wholeheartedly. Why sell a title for $20, when your counterpart is selling it for $40, sell it for $40 too, you have nothing to worry about, if they want access through you they will have to pay the same amount as the other, they aren't going to drop you and get the other machine to save just $20 in the long run

So far Sony and MS have not shown any signs they hold the power, they are bullied and held hostage by 3rd parties, in turn they have to keep their 1st/2nd party titles prices inflated or sour their partners
I mean why would you go to you partners and say hey guys let's make it cheaper, you'll get more money out of it
Most partners would say, you lose that fee that you charge us and we'll talk, and most of the time Sony/MS say "No Thanks"

Steam is an entity that can't be reproduced console-wise, it works on the PC cause delivery methods are so many, that you can get it from a lot of places
Consoles are tied to one store, and you are at the will of the Platform holder, if they feel like to have a sale to boost their bottom line or try to market for upcoming titles, that is when you see hints of those Steam"esque" sales, but they get quickly wiped away from the constant barrage of MSR, full price
Also retail plays a pivotal role is this, Steam doesn't have to answer to the Walmarts, Best Buys/amazon of the world, Sony/MS/Ninty do

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

That Burai post should be the first post anytime second hand sales are brought up in a thread, seriously, it would be an automatic win/thread shutdown post

MS and Sony have their own storefronts, they will have 0 competition, they can do w/e the fuck they like, the pubs are their buddies and they can set w/e prices/DL schemes they want

The real reason Steam works so fluently is it doesn't tie you to Valve only
You can go to amazon, gog, greenman, other countless digital stores and get the Steamworks edition
Competition breeds price wars, companies will do w/e they can to get you to be a repeat customer through their doors
On the console front all 3 companies so far, have not shown any competition against each other. They are homogenized entities that share in the pillage wholeheartedly. Why sell a title for $20, when your counterpart is selling it for $40, sell it for $40 too, you have nothing to worry about, if they want access through you they will have to pay the same amount as the other, they aren't going to drop you and get the other machine to save just $20 in the long run

So far Sony and MS have not shown any signs they hold the power, they are bullied and held hostage by 3rd parties, in turn they have to keep their 1st/2nd party titles prices inflated or sour their partners
I mean why would you go to you partners and say hey guys let's make it cheaper, you'll get more money out of it
Most partners would say, you lose that fee that you charge us and we'll talk, and most of the time Sony/MS say "No Thanks"

Steam is an entity that can't be reproduced console-wise, it works on the PC cause delivery methods are so many, that you can get it from a lot of places
Consoles are tied to one store, and you are at the will of the Platform holder, if they feel like to have a sale to boost their bottom line or try to market for upcoming titles, that is when you see hints of those Steam"esque" sales, but they get quickly wiped away from the constant barrage of MSR, full price
Also retail plays a pivotal role is this, Steam doesn't have to answer to the Walmarts, Best Buys/amazon of the world, Sony/MS/Ninty do

Another terrific post.

 

[Nightstick11]

Can someone explain to me why the video game industry has just a big problem with used versions of its product.

I never hear the movie industry complaining about used DVD sales. I never hear the music industry complain about used CD sales and I never hear authors or book publishers complain about used book sales. Also you would think authors would despise libraries, but they don't. What's the deal?

In my opinion, all this filth about on-disc DLC, superfluous DLC, map-packs, season passes, online DRM, and now banning used games can be traced back to Microsoft enabling greedy western publishers like Activision, EA, etc. to shape their vision of the industry. None of this shit popped up in previous generations. Not even on the PC.

EA, Activision, and their ilk want to monetize everything about videogames to scrounge every last cent. Mark my words, this generation will see pay-to-play-multiplayer modes and in-game video ads.

The videogame industry wants to treat each disc as if it were a painting, not as if it were a book or a film.

 

[unbias]

They were equally lame examples couched in emotion. His entire post ignores reality - reality like the CEO behind the Tomb Raider sales predictions resigning due to his performance. Not blaming used games and carrying on.

What other industry are you basing this off of? Are you saying sales would maintain if the 2nd hand market ceased to exist? To be able to make that claim, you should probably make sure you have some actual numbers to prove forgone growth(you cant do this). All you are doing is the same thing you are accusing others of. You cant back up that sentiment, nobody can, all it is, is noise to excuse crappy money management in this industry.

 

[Heart of Black]

The same people who played Xbox games from the hard drive and Xbox 360 games from the hard drive will find a way to play Xbone games from the hard drive.

Remember when UBIsoft DRM made it so players couldn't play online because Uplay wasn't working, but pirates still could?

And I am a dev, this won't fix the system.

 

[Dartastic]

ITT: People who understand how business works.

 

[jetjevons]

There seems to be a real disconnect between how much publishers are claiming used game sales, rentals and piracy hurt their bottom lines vs. what the gaming community is abstracting.

 

[tafer]

That Burai post should be the first post anytime second hand sales are brought up in a thread, seriously, it would be an automatic win/thread shutdown post

MS and Sony have their own storefronts, they will have 0 competition, they can do w/e the fuck they like, the pubs are their buddies and they can set w/e prices/DL schemes they want

The real reason Steam works so fluently is it doesn't tie you to Valve only
You can go to amazon, gog, greenman, other countless digital stores and get the Steamworks edition
Competition breeds price wars, companies will do w/e they can to get you to be a repeat customer through their doors
On the console front all 3 companies so far, have not shown any competition against each other. They are homogenized entities that share in the pillage wholeheartedly. Why sell a title for $20, when your counterpart is selling it for $40, sell it for $40 too, you have nothing to worry about, if they want access through you they will have to pay the same amount as the other, they aren't going to drop you and get the other machine to save just $20 in the long run

So far Sony and MS have not shown any signs they hold the power, they are bullied and held hostage by 3rd parties, in turn they have to keep their 1st/2nd party titles prices inflated or sour their partners
I mean why would you go to you partners and say hey guys let's make it cheaper, you'll get more money out of it
Most partners would say, you lose that fee that you charge us and we'll talk, and most of the time Sony/MS say "No Thanks"

Steam is an entity that can't be reproduced console-wise, it works on the PC cause delivery methods are so many, that you can get it from a lot of places
Consoles are tied to one store, and you are at the will of the Platform holder, if they feel like to have a sale to boost their bottom line or try to market for upcoming titles, that is when you see hints of those Steam"esque" sales, but they get quickly wiped away from the constant barrage of MSR, full price
Also retail plays a pivotal role is this, Steam doesn't have to answer to the Walmarts, Best Buys/amazon of the world, Sony/MS/Ninty do

Excellent post, we easily forget how important the retail side of the equation is for the console makers.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

The same people who played Xbox games from the hard drive and Xbox 360 games from the hard drive will find a way to play Xbone games from the hard drive.

Remember when UBIsoft DRM made it so players couldn't play online because Uplay wasn't working, but pirates still could?

And I am a dev, this won't fix the system.

Yeah, but you see dude.

This isn't about "Fixing the problem".

Its about two things:

1) Having total control over the way games are played.

2) Screwing over honest gamers who don't pirate games out of their basic right to own what they buy and be able to sell what they own.

 

[vg260]

That Burai post should be the first post anytime second hand sales are brought up in a thread, seriously, it would be an automatic win/thread shutdown post

MS and Sony have their own storefronts, they will have 0 competition, they can do w/e the fuck they like, the pubs are their buddies and they can set w/e prices/DL schemes they want

The real reason Steam works so fluently is it doesn't tie you to Valve only
You can go to amazon, gog, greenman, other countless digital stores and get the Steamworks edition

I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say here about steam not being tied to Valve and how that relates to the Xbox One. With account-based registration, you'll have essentially the same thing. You can buy the game at Amazon, Wal-Mart, Gamestop, etc, and it functions just the same as if you bought directly from MS.

 

[Htown]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

It's partially the developing industry's own goddamn fault for aiming for the stars and the moon and suddenly realizing that they aimed too high. Who is asking for games that cost into $100 million dollars and took an entire generation to make? Would the sales be impacted if that were halved or quartered? Is there enough sales potential (realistic, actual sales potential, none of this "it might sell better than Pokemon" bullshit). We've seen good looking games made on smaller budgets. Look at the stuff coming out of Eastern Europe for god sakes.

The industry aimed too high, suddenly started ballooning budgets, and then went "oh god there aren't any sales here to cover it up." Their response to this? Homogenize, wring the AAA space of any creativity and put the advertising on full blast. But we can't have smaller budgets, oh no. We've got to have our mo-capped dogs and celebrity voice actors that nobody fucking asked for. We've got to cover the cost of letting you develop your game for five years because you have no direction. We've got to cover you trying to wedge into an already saturated market of shooters and brown, and then failing miserably.

And then, time and time again, the consumers are expected to show up at the door every time these developers come out with some new way to make the package look worse. Oh, now you get half the content. Oh, now we're going to sell you that content back to you over a period of a year. Oh, now we're placing your game's access on computers you don't control, and then those computers won't work. Oh, now the game doesn't actually belong to you, it never did.

If the industry was smart, they would have had a linear progression of costs, but they're run by idiots who don't understand the market. Instead, they're baking these stupid anti-consumer things into the console, and selling the console on silly TV fluff and apps that half your entertainment center already runs. Because, sure, that will get people to buy a $500 monolith instead of a $50 Roku. Who the hell comes up with this shit?

Thus we're left with the consumers having to continue putting up with shitty decisions that negatively impact their side of the transaction because the fish move out of the way. It's about time people started getting pissed off.

requoting because goddamn

 

[Biker19]

Excellent post, we easily forget how important the retail side of the equation is for the console makers.

Very true. If any of the big three tries to do something anti-consumer like blocking used games, it'll be more than just Gamestop that'll not promote &/or stock their systems (or at least have some in limited stock), but other retailers will join in as well. They have nothing to lose by doing so, especially in which they get like, minuscule profit off of hardware sales & off of new copies of games.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

This is a beautiful post.
It's poetry.

We need less AAA games, and more A or AA games.

 

[Yagharek]

you know whats funny when this guy was reporting about the PS4 and used games he didnt bother making an article saying how stupid things like this is the best thing ever, cue Xbox reveal and here it is for everyone to see

Very telling, but unsurprising given penny arcade's history.

 

[rudieboy77]

It appears that folks who cannot afford to purchase new games are being told that they should not be included. This also goes along with this attitude about not having internet and being told they shouldn't be purchasing consoles. This entire attitude is elitist.

 

[Espada]

In my opinion, all this filth about on-disc DLC, superfluous DLC, map-packs, season passes, online DRM, and now banning used games can be traced back to Microsoft enabling greedy western publishers like Activision, EA, etc. to shape their vision of the industry. None of this shit popped up in previous generations. Not even on the PC.

EA, Activision, and their ilk want to monetize everything about videogames to scrounge every last cent. Mark my words, this generation will see pay-to-play-multiplayer modes and in-game video ads.

The videogame industry wants to treat each disc as if it were a painting, not as if it were a book or a film.

Absolutely. The goal is to ultimately make games a service, rather than a one-off purchase. I remember mentioning how I disliked the idea of microtransactions when it was first introduced to the gaming industry. Unfortunately, most of my fears have come true and others just over the horizon.

Eventually we'll have nothing more than a box under your TV that requires a subscription service to access a library of games. Said games are in episodic format and you pay for each one, along with other "extras" like developer commentary, multiplayer, etc...

The content owner has complete control over when you can play a game, for how long you can enjoy it, etc... A nice steady stream of income is what they want over the old model.

It's disgusting to be perfectly honest. They treat their customers like potential pirates.

 

[DarkFlow]

People just seem to look at this as "a traded in game enables a first hand purchase". But it also enables a second hand purchase for someone else that takes away a new sale and benefits no one but GameStop.

Whether or not you think that's a problem is a personal decision, but people ignore the fact the 3 games you trade in to buy GTA5 are 3 lost new sales for those games.

People buying used were most likely never going to buy it new anyway. So they did not lose 3 sales, and they don't deserve the money from used because nothing else in the world works like that.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Its not fair. Its stupid. The big 3 compete in retail, not digital because you are locked in their system.

If u buy a bone and MS never has sales, you're boned until u buy another console, which could take months, if not years for some people. MS doesn't have to respond. They never have. Look at PS+

On the PC however, you have true competition. Alternatives and stores are easy to access.

On PC you have a much freer platform than the console oligopoly. They aren't the same.

The part I was agreeing with was where I said the Xbox One would tank if they didn't lower prices, because everybody would go elsewhere. He's right in that regard. I agree it's still a dumb move, and that the PC digital landscape is much better.

 

[Sean*O]

Someone call Bill Gates and have him sit Steve "8" Ballmer down and fix this shit.

 

[Zeliard]

Ben Kuchera with another reprehensible article? Color me shocked.

 

[lamaroo]

Sure. But the point is, Steam has competition from those other platforms. Xbox has competition from PS4 and (I guess) Wii U in terms of providing value. If Xbox One's marketplace never has price cuts and PS4's does, Microsoft will lose sales. That competition will force them to be competitive like GMG forces Steam.

First you have to shell out extra money to buy a PS4 or Wii U. All of those PC clients are free, and most don't even require a separate download.

 

[vg260]

People buying used were most likely never going to buy it new anyway. So they did not lose 3 sales, and they don't deserve the money from used because nothing else in the world works like that.

Well there are probably quite a few people paying $5 less to buy a new release used at Gamestop, so it's not that far removed from full price. There are probably a lot that would cough up an extra $5 with no other option.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say here about steam not being tied to Valve and how that relates to the Xbox One. With account-based registration, you'll have essentially the same thing. You can buy the game at Amazon, Wal-Mart, Gamestop, etc, and it functions just the same as if you bought directly from MS.

Yeah but in the console realm everything is not always at parity
The MSRP of retail mostly commands the price of Digital

Hell publishers become more greedy with Digital so far

Example Mass Effect 3

Retail Disc copies were $59.99 at the start, same as Digital release
Month later Retail was $39.99-$49.99, Digital still $59.99 (no competition)
6 months later, retail $19.99, Digital "Sale" for $39.99...
1 year later, game still hovering $14.99-19.99, hell bargain bin status, finally Digital gets it's permanent drop of $19.99

With X1, your still tied to MS, even though you can have certain retailers provide you with key + disc
Do you really see amazon being your X1 game supplier or say greeman gaming or Steam?
No you will always have to go through the MS storefront

MS will not chop it's own arm off to breed competition in it's own payed walled garden
Same goes for Sony and Ninty

 

[GreenTornadoX]

Remember when Penny Arcade didn't fondle the industry's balls?

 

[lupinko]

Remember when Penny Arcade didn't fondle the industry's balls?

Gotta pay for those PennyArcade expos somehow.

 

[Artorias]

Gotta pay for those PennyArcade podcasts somehow.

Fixed

 

[Dave Meltzer]

People buying used were most likely never going to buy it new anyway. So they did not lose 3 sales, and they don't deserve the money from used because nothing else in the world works like that.

I'm not convinced of that logic. But lets go with it; the issue right now is 3 weeks after launch you can buy a second hand version of a game for, what, 70% the price of it new? So for a first hand copy to be an appealing alternative for a customer, it needs to be 70% off too. Doing that only 3 weeks after a game's release isn't healthy, and essentially starves a lot of games of the chance of being long term sellers even when the game is actually continuing to be sold, albeit second hand versions.

People buying second hand versions of games are buying them because they're significantly cheaper than first hand copies. If you create a system where first hand copies can fall in price gradually over time rather than that instant crash that comes after launch, you'll have a healthier long term market. Now, a lot of this is dependent on publishers not being stupid, which I can't promise. There's a chance that some games will just stay $60 forever, digitally and in retail, and there's no way to get them cheaper. But the competition for lower prices should come from other games lowering their prices for first hand copies rather than Gamestop or eBay offering the same game for less.

 

[tafer]

The most ironic and scary thing about these anti-consumer practices is that even if they manage to "succeed", the real problems will remain in place, forcing even more questionable ideas in the near future.

In other words, if allowed, it will get worse for the consumer.