Oh, so we're talking ghost space dicks here.The brain bit isn't literal. Just, a spontaneous form of consciousness. It's not unheard of.
Oh, so we're talking ghost space dicks here.The brain bit isn't literal. Just, a spontaneous form of consciousness. It's not unheard of.
What's to stop each and every one of us from spontaneously reforming on an infinite number of earths then? Given infinite time, probability means nothing.
You're assuming it's even possible to be bitter. What is bitterness, exactly? Can you locate it? How do you know that what you think of as bitter corresponds to what I think of as bitter? Who are you? Who am I? What are we? Are we? Is what is, is?don't be bitter.
How would a spontaneous brain survive even survive without oxygen, glucose, etc.?
Oh, so we're talking ghost space dicks here.
You're assuming it's even possible to be bitter. What is bitterness, exactly? Can you locate it? How do you know that what you think of as bitter corresponds to what I think of as bitter? Who are you? Who am I? What are we? Are we? Is what is, is?
You're assuming it's even possible to be bitter. What is bitterness, exactly? Can you locate it? How do you know that what you think of as bitter corresponds to what I think of as bitter? Who are you? Who am I? What are we? Are we? Is what is, is?
space dicks made from energy and exotic matter? sure.
How would a spontaneous brain survive even survive without oxygen, glucose, etc.?
More handwaving! Are we talking actual physical possibilities here or not? Because if not then it doesn't qualify for the "probabilities trending to 1" bit.space dicks made from energy and exotic matter? sure.
Well if this theory is true, it means that somewhere, a trillion years in the future, you'll be reborn again and live your life exactly as you did here and now.
This is what I think he means by typical observer. Essentially, imagine the entire history of the universe stretching from the initial moments of its low entropy state all the way into an infinite future in which all matter is evenly displaced and uniform (as some models predict). Since under this model the universe will never end, our present occupation of the universe at 13 billion years since its inception represents only a small amount of time. This present state is "unusual": a relatively low entropy state. In the future, the universe will exist for an infinite amount of time, much of which will be spent in a high entropy state.How are these spacebrains typical observers? Why do they get that label? Why aren't rocks typical observers? What does it mean to 'observe' in this context? If these brains cant survive, then what does it matter?
And what sort of cosmological principles wouldn't work anymore? What assumptions are being made that would be ruined by the existence of theoretical spacebrains later on?
I dont think I'm going to be able to wrap my head around this.
my brain hurts from reading that.
Oh god...that Dr Who episode.
my brain hurts from reading that.
Are you begging an avatar quote?
So... There might be a formation of particles that form a consciousness for a moment in the universe? And if the String theory is correct, they won't overrun the universe?
And these minds...
Who thinks this stuff?
People farrrrr out of the main pools of society. Like most scientific breakthroughs.
From the mind of Time comes, Brains!
You mean the one with paradox during the end of time?
I think some people are misunderstanding the reason Boltzmann brains are supposed to be a problem. It's not that they're going to encroach on our territory and eat us or some such. IIRC it's more akin to Bostrom's simulation argument.
The simulation argument goes something like this:
-assume that simulations are possible (simulations meaning a whole universe and population of sentient beings that are wholly contained in a computer)
-assume further that simulations within simulations are possible (inside a simulated universe, someone builds a simulated computer and runs a simulated simulation on it)
-once our technology advances enough, there will be lots of different people running these simulations
-oh look, there are now some mind-bogglingly vast number of simulated universes out there
-if there are, it is vastly more likely that we are one of the simulated universes than that we're the lone original universe.
The Boltzmann brain argument is similar:
-I believe myself to be a consciousness experiencing the planet Earth in the year 2013 etc
-One possible explanation for that is that I am a physical brain in a physical body on the planet Earth at that time
-Another possible explanation is that I'm a Boltzmann brain, a randomly arising configuration of particles that happens to correspond exactly to a physical brain on the planet Earth at that time, thus giving rise to an identical experience
-If there are in fact Boltzmann brains, and they do outnumber us (in the future, presumably), then it's more likely that I'm a Boltzmann brain than a physical brain in a physical body
Someone correct me if I'm remembering this wrong.
So things will change a lot in the future. I get that. But so what? Why does that change anything we know now? What do spacebrains and the number of them have to do with anything? I dont think it being a brain is a completely random choice of object by what it sounds. Cyan mentioned something earlier about how our existence could actually be something to do with it, but I dont understand that part, especially as a brain in space couldn't survive.This is what I think he means by typical observer. Essentially, imagine the entire history of the universe stretching from the initial moments of its low entropy state all the way into an infinite future in which all matter is evenly displaced and uniform (as some models predict). Since under this model the universe will never end, our present occupation of the universe at 13 billion years since its inception represents only a small amount of time. This present state is "unusual": a relatively low entropy state. In the future, the universe will exist for an infinite amount of time, much of which will be spent in a high entropy state.
However, even in this high entropy state, there is a small chance that a part of the universe will at random decrease its entropy. This could take the form of anything, even a brain (the idea of a brain appearing at random is intentionally meant to be absurd). Since the universe will not end, but merely continues on for infinity, a brain like this has a chance of appearing, multiple times. Boltzmann's brain is more "typical" because this high entropy state in which the brain appears is much more common than our present state. In order for a state like ours to appear again, the entire universe would have to return to a low entropy state, which is much, much rarer than a random brain appearing.
Edit: Actually, I don't know if you could literally get "anything" by decreasing entropy. I don't know enough about physics to make that claim. A brain is just a common example.
So things will change a lot in the future. I get that. But so what? Why does that change anything we know now? What do spacebrains and the number of them have to do with anything? I dont think it being a brain is a completely random choice of object by what it sounds. Cyan mentioned something earlier about how our existence could actually be something to do with it, but I dont understand that part, especially as a brain in space couldn't survive.
Article title is not a joke.
More at the link: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829184.400-string-theory-may-limit-space-brain-threat.html
This is the most fucking bizarre thing I have read for like a year. No surprises it's from Berkeley.
Mock if old, but it will not save you from the space brains.
what the actual fuck
im a boltzmann brain
I don't get it. If Boltzmann brains or whatever outnumber us, or whatever the fuck it's saying I'm so damn tired, why does that matter? How does it have any effect on anything if a bunch of space brains experience the universe too? I'm so lost. And sexy.
I don't think that's how Boltzmann brains work. My understanding is that it pops into existence, some particles move around in such a way that it thinks it's experiencing things (and has memories of having experienced a lifetime of things and so on) and then pops back out again because it's in the middle of hard vacuum.A Boltzmann brain is just a conscious entity. It wouldn't think it was a person on Earth unless Earth itself existed for it, either separately or as part of the random shit. If Earth existed for it, there's no existential crisis for the Boltzmann brain, and you don't need to worry about being one. Everything is very real to you because it is real, regardless of whether or not you're a bbrain or an an ebrain. You could have popped into existence just now, sitting in your chair, on a planet full of ebrains who happen to think you were always around. So what?
Yes, it's more or lerss equivalent to the brain-in-a-jar/Matrix argument. You might not really be experiencing stuff, you might be just a brain being fed false experiences in the form of direct neural stimulation.If the bbrain is crazy and is imagining being a person on Earth when it's not, again, so what? It's just like you, an ebrain, wondering if you're really in a padded room in an insane asylum in the year 1894.
Well if this theory is true, it means that somewhere, a trillion years in the future, you'll be reborn again and live your life exactly as you did here and now.
It is an interesting concept, but ultimately dumb.
I mean, the whole thing rests on the idea that eventually, everything is possible in an infinite universe. Our universe is not chaotic enough to generate the infinite randomness needed to create ridiculously improbable events like the Boltzman brains.