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[MikeE21286]

Seems fair.

I'm ok with this too.

Sounds like crisis averted.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I was wondering this earlier. Would it be possible to inject a unique identifier into each disc at the manufacture level? That'd do the trick - the servers would handle matching that identifier to the account, you wouldn't actually need to store data on a chip.

It could be done with those new colour QR codes I suppose, those were developed by MS IIRC.

 

[oldergamer]

I foresee amazon, ebay and other major online retailers that already sell new xbox hardware and games to also be preferred resellers of used games.

 

[Socky]

...Wait. So not only people will have to pay for buying pre-owned games, but they will pay for activation too? ...A 35 Pounds fee activation? WHAT?

That doesn't sound right. Selling the licence should give the person who buys it full access to the game without the need for any activation fees.

That's what made me spit my cornflakes too:

These same unconfirmed reports also suggest that the activation cost for consumers buying or borrowing pre-owned software will be £35.

Retail price is around £40, £35 online - tell me, why would anyone even consider buying a second-hand game if this is true, especially if the disc purchase costs you even more? Am I missing something? Because if this is the case then second-hand just became worthless.

 

[Krilekk]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publ...of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137



Pretty much exactly what I and a couple of other posters were suggesting in another thread. Not code based though by the sounds of it.

edit - if a Mod could add 'Xbox One' to the title, that'd be great Sorry...

Or you could just create a new gamertag for each game you buy and then sell the account. Obviously not on eBay because they don't allow such practices but there are different sites. If it works anything like on 360 you would then log in to the console with the newly bought gamertag, plug in a second controller with your own gamertag and could play the game on your gamertag as long as the other profile is logged in.

 

[matellis]

The best way to go about all this is to just make downloading games way more appealing rather than getting the disc in a store. Make games $5-$10 dollars cheaper, offer great sales like steam does and just don't try and force change down our throats. If I am offered a great deal up front when buying a game I am a lot less likely to be thinking about what I could get for trading it in down the road.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

Does anyone seriously - seriously - think Sony won;t bow to publisher pressure to do them same thing?

is everyone really pretending that?

 

[Toki767]

It's still crazy to think this is actually happening.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Join their Azure system to wipe the data from your account? Still can't private trade, sell, etc? Basically benefits the publishers and retailers but screws over the consumer? LOL Get fucked Microsoft. After I trade in my 360, I'm done.

Does anyone seriously - seriously - think Sony won;t bow to publisher pressure to do them same thing?

is everyone really pretending that?

Everyone is pretending just as hard as you are wishing Sony would follow in MS's anti-consumer steps.

 

[Xater]

Microsoft is happy - gets cut.

Publishers are happy - get cut (I support this part).

Gamestop is happy - Private market and amazon/ebay get killed.

And thats the big problem!

You are completly dependent what they give you at gamestop. In Germany for example Gamestop is the only major games-selling chain, some private owned little gaming-stores excluded, there are no other stores that specialise in gaming.

People who go to GameStop for games in Germany are insane. You always better of online or at Saturn/Media Markt.

 

[fisheyes]

I'm confused why people think this is ok?

Essentially the retailers that offer the service can offer £5 and sell on for £30 and as the seller you have little option.

Yeah, if I'm understanding this right, this seems awful.

You pay $100 for a game. When you decide you don't want it any more...

You can 'lend' it to a friend, but they'll have to pay $100 to play it too, so they might as well just buy a new one. So odds are you aren't going to sell to them.

You can't go putting your game on eBay, in the trading post, or otherwise selling it to anyone else for less than the price, since that would seemingly register in Microsoft's system the same as the game being 'lent' to someone, and hence they'd have to pay not only what they paid you, but the $100 to re-licence it as well. So that is definitely out.

So your only left over option is to head into EB Games or wherever else, where they know you've got no other way of getting any money for the game, so they're free to offer you about $5. They then sell the game for the highest possible amount, because they know that their going to have to give a percentage to the publishers anyway.

Total clusterfuck.

EDIT: Wait, even if you buy second hand from EB Games, you have to pay that licence fee? If so, the only way they'll be able to sell those is by selling them super low, which means the incredibly small amount they will pay you in the first place is even lower. Jesus.

 

[Mpl90]

Interesting.

You should read the other part of what you quoted: by logging as himself on other's machines. Like said...a billion times, just to make "better" all of this.

 

[riprapp]

Just with regards to the options for renting games, I'm wondering whether there's the potential that we could see something akin to the way in which PSPlus handles content access? In other words, is there scope for MS to introduce activation codes that prompt your access to content to 'expire' on a given date? If so, stores could conceivably issue a 'rental code' with the disc when you rent it. Further, I guess that sort of system could be extended for private renters, in other words they could offer a rental pass which could be bought directly via Xbox Live for if your friend lent you a game...

I'm not saying I'm in favour of such plans by any means, just mulling what options could be feasible based on what information we have so far...

 

[Dead Man Typing]

If retailers can deactivate the registration, then we should be able to, too.

Deactivate game from my account -> give disc to friend -> he activates it on his system

The same process as this suggested Used model but without the middle man.

 

[Canis lupus]

I'm guessing if the disc is installed on a new system/account then it's removed from the old.

So retailers don't matter, you can give to a friend etc.

Seems the old decent way to handle it.

Thats exactly how its not gonna be.

You bring your game to your friend: they can only play it on your account.

You wanna resell your game, you go to one of the retailers participating in this program, its then registered as pre-owned in the cloud. Thats where the 24h online check comes in. It deletes the game from your account.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Kills eBay and Amazon marketplace and selling the game privately.

Also, does that mean each game disc now has a unique identifier chip in it somewhere, otherwise how will the retailer know which account the traded in disc comes from? Doesn't work otherwise unless GameStop have a box in the store where people trading in games can log in and mark the games as traded or something. Very cumbersome without a unique identifier chip, also that is technology that would have to be licenced from Sony, who I'm quite sure are not selling a licence for that tech.

More likely they'll ask the person trading it in for their gamertag. Maybe they'll need to enter a PIN as well to stop people giving someone else's gamertag who they know has the game.

 

[NaviLink]

People saying this is good are out of their minds. This move is beyond idiotic.

They basically want to kill the private second hand market, and finally achieve what some publishers have wanted for some time : make money on second hand sales. Meaning making money multiple times with the same copy.

It's fucking insane.

No other cultural product works like this. Not the books, not the music, not the movies. Why would video games should be any different? I've been fearing this for years and it seems they finally have found a way. This sucks on so many levels regarding consumer rights... There's no way this works in Europe.

 

[Atrophis]

No people this is not a good solution. You cannot set the price of the game you want to sell. Proof that you get the bad news out there and then offer a slightly more palatable solution (that is still terrible) and everyone now thanks you for it.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I wonder how many pissed off ebay buyers there will be early next gen.

 

[bbjvc]

is it technically possible to gift a game that tied in with user1 to user2, when both party agrees? is so that's could be the solution for private sale

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Does anyone seriously - seriously - think Sony won;t bow to publisher pressure to do them same thing?

is everyone really pretending that?

This is not going to happen in the EU. It simply will not work in the same way. I doubt Sony will go beyond giving publishers the option to enable a used games block mechanism, just like they did with region locking (where only one publisher did it and it came back to bite them in the arse), the machine itself will not in any way block used games.

Also, publishers should be forced to state clearly that they are blocking re-sale of a game in the EU at the least. Let's see how much they sell then.

 

[gofreak]

why would you ever want to pay just as much for second hand game as a new one?

why should your game become valueless as soon as you buy it (xbox credit notwithstanding)?

why should you be forced to sell your game for "credit" that must (presumably) be used on microsoft's store to buy software at highly inflated prices

this still effectively kills private selling, because no-one will pay full "microsoft store price" for second hand games

The motivation for buying this way would be to throw your friend who is selling a bone. That's it really.

Interesting.

I think giving it to your son to play on his machine will require logging into your account on his machine...unless licensing will now be tied to IP Or you can setup a sub account under a master Live account.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

I'm ok with this too.

Sounds like crisis averted.

Have fun paying $50 for a used game that's been on the market for three years and getting $5 (in credit) from Gamestop for a game that's been three weeks on the market.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I foresee amazon, ebay and other major online retailers that already sell new xbox hardware and games to also be preferred resellers of used games.

It would be impossible because Amazon and eBay don't ever handle the game, they are just acting as an intermediary for a private sale and taking a commission. This system relies on GameStop or GAME actually handling the game and scanning it so that it can be deactivated on Microsoft's servers.

If retailers can deactivate the registration, then we should be able to, too.

Deactivate game from my account -> give disc to friend -> he activates it on his system

The same process as this suggested Used model but without the middle man.

But we aren't in the approved network to access the Azure servers and won't give MS their cut or the publisher their cut.

 

[Squire]

How could it not adjust prices of used games upwards? Of course it will affect cost: Publishers/Microsoft will want their cut, that's the whole reason for this system. In addition, no competition from private sellers on eBay, Amazon Marketplace etc. will mean additional pressure is gone.

Right. There was more I hadn't read.

 

[Codeblew]

The best way to combat this is to not preorder or buy new games. Wait at least until the first price drop. If they are not going to give you any resell value, then do not pay $60-$70.

 

[Linkified]

They might have a setup for partner renters ala partner retail. The license on a game exchanged through a renter - as tracked through MS's online connection with the render - could be set to expire after the rental period even.

Or even do what movie corporations do and produce disks just for the rental market, with an extra requirement of having the game disk being needed in the system to use content.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

So crisis averted?

 

[Shard]

Good god, yea, not a fan of this, not a fan of this at all.

 

[angelcage87]

This is a whole new level of stupidity.
First of all, you are obliged to sell your games by the stores who agreed to this bullshit, which are the same stores that today, without this mechanism to use as excuse, sell used games for 5 dollars less than full price, giving the retailers full decisional powers over the price setting of used games, killing private sales and trading.
If I buy a pc, a car, a house, a tv, a toaster or whatever the fuck I want, I should be able to choose the way I want to sell it, and its value. All this shit is utterly undefendable, I don't get how there are people still excited for this machine.

 

[neorej]

Does anyone seriously - seriously - think Sony won;t bow to publisher pressure to do them same thing?

is everyone really pretending that?

I think Sony has a similar system in place. They just won't activate it until there is a clear consensus on how the consumer will respond.
If the consumer flocks to Sony, Sony has leverage over the publishers.

 

[MikeE21286]

Have fun paying $50 for a used game that's been on the market for three years and getting $5 (in credit) from Gamestop for a game that's been three weeks on the market.

Why would GameStop pricing structure change versus what it is now?

Are you saying it's because of the dissipation of the private second hand market?

You might have a point then...

 

[sephi22]

I can imagine it.

Dudebro#1 buys CoD without reading much about the used game stuff. Then sells it to Dudebro#2 (who also doesn't know about this) on Craigslist for $30. Dudebro#2 can't play the game. Hilarity ensues.

 

[gofreak]

If retailers can deactivate the registration, then we should be able to, too.

Deactivate game from my account -> give disc to friend -> he activates it on his system

The same process as this suggested Used model but without the middle man.

The process is basically the same for both.

The difference is in who is paying MS their 'fee'.

The retailer will pay MS a fee, and so retail traded games, that fee will be transparent to the users.

In the user-to-user scenario, from what they've said, the buyer will pay the fee.

A fee in both scenarios, just a question of who's paying and how much.

 

[Alex]

The best way to go about all this is to just make downloading games way more appealing rather than getting the disc in a store. Make games $5-$10 dollars cheaper, offer great sales like steam does and just don't try and force change down our throats. If I am offered a great deal up front when buying a game I am a lot less likely to be thinking about what I could get for trading it in down the road.

They seem to want all the business perks of both physical and digital but while stripping all boons to the consumer from either model.

Glorified coasters that are locked down like Fort Knox and a zero competition, high price digital storefront locked to a single box. None of this flies with me, not in an industry with such high priced products.

They can either roll the classic console model for physical, or the open, competition heavy Steam model for digital. Nothing else would satisfy, not for 60 dollar games.

 

[Mpl90]

Why would GameStop pricing structure change versus what they are now?

Are you saying it's because of the dissipation of the private second hand market?

You might have a point then...

Because of cuts on prices.

 

[FyreWulff]

This is almost coming off as more of a trojan horse to get stores on Azure as their POS/inventory system.

Get it in their systems for the games, make money off everything they sell as they pay for the Azure support contract.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Why would GameStop pricing structure change versus what they are now?

Are you saying it's because of the dissipation of the private second hand market?

You might have a point then...

Consumers usually tend to get fucked over when competition decreases, especially when that "competition" is working together i.e. Microsoft & Gamestop/Partners.

Why would they lower prices when they're the only source of used games and don't have to worry about private parties, Amazon, Ebay, etc?

 

[Kusagari]

Well we know why Gamestop ended up happy.

 

[Trent Strong]

It would be impossible because Amazon and eBay don't ever handle the game, they are just acting as an intermediary for a private sale and taking a commission. This system relies on GameStop or GAME actually handling the game and scanning it so that it can be deactivated on Microsoft's servers.

What? I sell all my old games to amazon, and I mail them all to the same place, some amazon distribution center, and amazon inspects them, judges the condition they're in, and then puts credit on my account.

 

[Baby Milo]

this is fucking terrible

 

[MikeE21286]

Because of cuts on prices.

You mean the publisher "cut" affecting the price GameStop sells used games at?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

You should read the other part of what you quoted: by logging as himself on other's machines. Like said...a billion times, just to make "better" all of this.

I think giving it to your son to play on his machine will require logging into your account on his machine...unless licensing will now be tied to IP Or you can setup a sub account under a master Live account.

Yeah, the wording threw me off.

Still pretty convoluted when there are much better alternatives out there to address the used games issue.

 

[Y2Kev]

Does anyone seriously - seriously - think Sony won;t bow to publisher pressure to do them same thing?

is everyone really pretending that?

I don't think Sony's network technology is good enough to do what Microsoft wants to do, lol.

 

[dirtywhirlwind]

This sounds like something that could possibly be illegal in EU. Didn't the court there recently ruled that you should be able to resell downloadable games or something? I hope they take this to court one day.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

What? I sell all my old games to amazon, and I mail them the the same place, some amazon distribution center, and amazon inspects them, judges the condition they're in, and then puts credit on my account.

That's Amazon trade-in, not Marketplace.

 

[Boy Wander]

There can't possibly only be one price point for used games surely?
If I want to buy Kameo now because I missed out on it at launch, I want to pay 5 quid for it, not fucking 40 quid. The big difference here is that retailers will no longer set the price of used games. MS will. How ANYONE can be fine with this beggars belief.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Nope.gif

Not buying into this shit just for the convenience.
Read the OP properly; Microsoft have firmly inserted themselves as the middle man in order to scrape off extra profits from used games, it is blatantly transparent.

retailers who have agreed to Microsoft’s T&Cs and more importantly integrated Microsoft’s cloud-based Azure pre-owned system into its own.

publisher of the title in question will automatically receive a percentage cut of the sale. As will Microsoft.

 

[Arjen]

This sounds like something that could possibly be illegal in EU. Didn't the court there recently ruled that you should be able to resell downloadable games or something? I hope they take this to court one day.

Yeah, i don't think this shit will fly in Europe.

 

[bigboss370]

Digital renting will become a thing with all the money going straight to publishers.

I am surprised they didn't go the activation key route. Seemed the safer option. MS will MS I guess.

i guess. but personally for me, lending and borrowing are big. and ability to privately sell and buy is bigger. I don't sell my games but I do buy plenty from people on local ad sites.