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Shadow of the Eternals (Dyack) kickstarter ends prematurely
- Thread starter brianmcdoogle
- Start date
Anticitizen One
Banned
Was Eternal Darkness even that good?
Robot Pants
Member
Take Dyacks name off of everything in the future for fucks sake.
Let people be surprised when they see it in the credits.
He does more harm than good.
Let people be surprised when they see it in the credits.
He does more harm than good.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
This is a matter of opinion and perspective. Wasteland is nothing special. Most of the good writing is in the manual, for crying out loud.
The differentiating factor is not the game, nor it's sales, nor it's quality.
The fundraiser failed because of the history of behavior by the people behind it. They created a "new" company as the basis of this project, despite keeping the same management, because they destroyed their last business attempting to steal a game engine while trying to sue the company they stole it from. Their last two projects were universally panned, amidst not-especially-far-fetched accusations of wrongdoing behind the scenes.
Their character and their talent for creating games have been brought into question, and the fact that they claim being unable to fund this work through traditional channels, despite decades of experience in the industry and a "sure thing" regarding the project, should be a sign in itself.
I want this game to come out, but the barriers to it were erected by the personalities behind it. This isn't a creative project being "suppressed" because people don't like the people. It's people expecting money so they can profit from a venture with no risk to themselves, when they should be as well suited to arranging the funding as almost anyone else in the industry.
Vespasianus
Banned
The games he named were all essentially failures, regardless of whether a few people loved them or not. Double Fine's track record is really no different from that of Silicon Knights, the only difference is that one went under and can't get a kickstarter funded, whereas the other has no problem getting them funded.
I'll never understand people who donate to kickstarter campaigns.
I can understand why people wouldn't want to fund something given Dyack's and Silicon Knights' track record.
But why do they fund so much other terrible stuff that seems even less promising, or from developers with equally shoddy track records? That's what I don't understand.
You base that on what? A handful of GAF posters that hold a grudge against him?
I'd argue without Dyack this project would get a hell of a lot less attention.
I'd be interested in hearing about a kickstarter initiated by a company destroyed by its own illegal activity which, retaining its managing staff, created a new company under a different name and began a kickstarter and was successfully funded. You're saying these projects are comparable, and even ignoring your assertions about what games are or aren't worthy of funding, can you come up with a single example? I'm not even asking you to account for a series of both critically and commercially failed projects being the only work over the last decade by the developer themselves.
Vespasianus
Banned
Less negative attention, yeah. Dyack and Too Human proved once and for all that not all publicity is good publicity. Everyone and their dog had been talking about Too Human for years and it was still a massive failure. Everyone laughing at you =/= everyone wanting to buy your game/donate to kickstarter.
Slappers Only
Junior Member
Top tier to be called Canadian Gov't?
I've never even played the original Wasteland so I can't say. My main point is there seems to be a lot more reverence and desire for a new game for old PC "classics" like Wasteland than there is for a new Eternal Darkness.
Personally, I liked Eternal Darkness well enough at the time. But I have no real desire for a sequel. I'd imagine a lot of people feel similar.
What the hell does them being failures commercially have to do with the fact that they were well received by both critics and people who played them?
All of Double Fine's recent games have received decent reviews. Too Human and especially X-Men haven't.
That is a fact.
Vespasianus
Banned
Just to clarify, I don't want to come across as some kind of Silicon Knights/ Dyack defense force here. I've never actually liked any of SK's products, other than Twin Snakes that seemed like a decent enough remake.
I agree that Dyack and SK's conduct in theft and then trying to pin the blame on Epic was despicable, and I think they deserved every bit of the harsh judgment they received. I have no sympathy for their more recent games being erased from memory at their own expense.
Ok, you're completely right there of course. I meant companies with similar track records relating to the underwhelming games they released. Far as I know nobody in the industry has ever self-destructed with the kind of illegal theft that Silicon Knights did.
And why did Silicon Knights bring the lawsuit? Epic just counter-sued! Surely Dyack and the developers would have known they had stolen the code. If anything they should have been trying to avoid courts like the plague to try to prevent their theft from being revealed. Instead they charged into court themselves and got their company and its games quite literally removed from existence.
Good for a few laughs, though. I still remember how many people vehemently defended Too Human, Dyack, and Silicon Knights, and tried to make Epic out as the bad guys in all of this.
In any case I thought most gamers would be ignorant of all of the various legal wrongdoing and blatant lying they'd been involved in.
I suppose this kickstarter failing as much as it did is an indication that kickstarter donators may not be as completely uninformed with as short memories as I thought.
I agree that Dyack and SK's conduct in theft and then trying to pin the blame on Epic was despicable, and I think they deserved every bit of the harsh judgment they received. I have no sympathy for their more recent games being erased from memory at their own expense.
Ok, you're completely right there of course. I meant companies with similar track records relating to the underwhelming games they released. Far as I know nobody in the industry has ever self-destructed with the kind of illegal theft that Silicon Knights did.
And why did Silicon Knights bring the lawsuit? Epic just counter-sued! Surely Dyack and the developers would have known they had stolen the code. If anything they should have been trying to avoid courts like the plague to try to prevent their theft from being revealed. Instead they charged into court themselves and got their company and its games quite literally removed from existence.
Good for a few laughs, though. I still remember how many people vehemently defended Too Human, Dyack, and Silicon Knights, and tried to make Epic out as the bad guys in all of this.
In any case I thought most gamers would be ignorant of all of the various legal wrongdoing and blatant lying they'd been involved in.
I suppose this kickstarter failing as much as it did is an indication that kickstarter donators may not be as completely uninformed with as short memories as I thought.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
The parenthetical right in the thread title directs the focus of discussion. You cannot discourage such "hilarious" commentary with a simple "let's not do this."
That decision was cemented long ago anyway...
1/10
Terrible Majesty
Member
Could Retro be making Eternal Darkness 2?
brianmcdoogle
Member
The Cave: 70 Metacritic
Iron Brigade: 82 Metacritic
Stacking: 84 Metacritic
Costume Quest: 77 Metacritic
Brutal Legend: 82 Metacritic
Psychonauts: 88 Metacritic
X-Men: Destiny: 47 Metacritic
Too Human: 65 Metacritic
Eternal Darkness: 92 Metacritic
These are similar, how? One developer has many several highly regarded games, that may or may not have sold according to their acclaim, and the other developer made 1 good game and ported 1 good game.
Iron Brigade: 82 Metacritic
Stacking: 84 Metacritic
Costume Quest: 77 Metacritic
Brutal Legend: 82 Metacritic
Psychonauts: 88 Metacritic
X-Men: Destiny: 47 Metacritic
Too Human: 65 Metacritic
Eternal Darkness: 92 Metacritic
These are similar, how? One developer has many several highly regarded games, that may or may not have sold according to their acclaim, and the other developer made 1 good game and ported 1 good game.
By what measure is Double Fine 'failing'? Their last games all attracted 80s or above on Metacritic, they sold about 150.000 Humble Double Fine Bundles just last week, and I'm pretty sure Happy Action Theater and its sequel were some of the more popular Kinect-games out there. They've also released like half a dozen games over the past few years.
Let's compare that to Silicon Knights, who have released three games in ten years, one of which was a remake (Metal Gear), one a terribly reviewed licensed game (X-Men: Destiny), and... Too Human. Shadow of the Eternals looks pretty decent, sure, and I would love to see the game actually be released, but let's not act as if Silicon Knights hasn't fucked up things in the past. Double Fine, however, is doing pretty decently and has far more reasonable goals, too.
brianmcdoogle
Member
Let's not forget this other Silicon Knights lawsuit from the past...
Blood_Omen:_Legacy_of_Kain
"it's everyone's fault by ours"
Blood_Omen:_Legacy_of_Kain
"it's everyone's fault by ours"
Exactly. I feel for those who actually sent money.
Remake =/= port
I don't think the pitch was the problem. The game looks interesting, but who's going to trust Dyack with their money? I'm not even talking about whether the man is dishonest or not, but don't all of his projects end up being very late and way over budget? What happens if he runs out of money before the game is completed and there's no publisher willing to throw more money into it? Start a new KS?
TaroYamada
Member
I cannot believe we have some people on gaf that are so misinformed they'd draw parallels between DFA/Massive Chalice & SoE kickstarters. A completely hyperbolic comparison.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
My point includes Brian Fargo, Chris Roberts, InXile, Double-Fine--all of them authors of fine, high-quality niche titles who failed to experience financial success with those efforts and have turned to the community to find a self-sustaining niche audience to let them do what they love.
I love Brutal Legend too. Psychonauts too. We should be brothers.
But my love for the game that was proposed, and the game it was succeeding, was, despite my best efforts, hardly the topic of conversation in any of the threads on this project. Instead, it was all Monday Morning Quarterback vis-a-vis Dyack.
I got others for ya, up above. I'm pretty well-informed. Yet my opinion still differs from yours. Tim Schaeffer doesn't need any more of my money. I just don't see the "need" there.
He can wait until his first kickstarted project either sells or not, and then decide if he can build a self-sustaining business or not. I'm not financing the next project while the first one is still unreleased.
My thought.
Kickstarter seems to be driven mostly by hype. I can't really imagine what new features they could possibly announce that would create even as much hype as the first attempt, now that that one under-performed and was cancelled.
Lowering the goal may sound reasonable but it also sounds like admitting defeat and would mean cutting features (or blatant lying) and thus even less hype than they had to begin with.
I would really like to see an Eternal Darkness 2 but I would have liked to see it done with Nintendo and the fact that they didn't pick it up (and God knows, they could use some exclusives) pretty much killed my expectations for this project and the way this is going certainly doesn't increase them.
Weltall Zero
Member
Huh, that's not how I parsed your initial post:
You almost seem to be wondering why people give Dyack a hard time/do not support him, when they are willing to back Double Fine a second time "even before Broken Age is out" and after "not publishing a 'successful' game". As others have pointed out, I find that comparison kind of insulting towards Double Fine.
People are not worried that Dyack can make a good game that doesn't sell (why should they care at all whether it sells or not?); they're worried that Dyack makes no game or makes a mediocre game, and they're basing that on his track record. Bringing Double Fine into the conversation as a comparison can't not imply that they're in the same situation. If comparing them is not your intention, I see no point in mentioning Double Fine at all, but ok, carry on; I don't want to derail the thread.
Sorry if I'm not making my point clearly and definitely not succinctly; it's way too late into the night right now and I should be sleeping.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
It find it incredulous or maybe just downright weird that people have positions against Denis Dyack on some sort of warped ethical standpoint. The guy didn't commit any malicious action against any person or the gaming community. Dyack went public about his dislike for the mob mentality in forums (which is rather factual) and of course a famous legal suit against Epic which he lost. Whatever the actual story behind those incidents, Dyack received punitive action.
The man is a game developer that has shown the ability to make absolutely unique and wonderful games (Blood Omen and Eternal Darkness). Personal discord and silly gifs don't mean he should be condemned from making video games. We would actually be losing out. Let him continue his passion without all the memes and ruthless mob attacks. I actually thought the preview of Shadow of the Eternals looked pretty good. Hopefully things work out for Precursor Games.
The man is a game developer that has shown the ability to make absolutely unique and wonderful games (Blood Omen and Eternal Darkness). Personal discord and silly gifs don't mean he should be condemned from making video games. We would actually be losing out. Let him continue his passion without all the memes and ruthless mob attacks. I actually thought the preview of Shadow of the Eternals looked pretty good. Hopefully things work out for Precursor Games.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
To be fair, Dyack's games have become exponentially worse (Eternal Darkness > MGS: Twin Snakes > Too Human > X-Men Shitstains). That'd be one reason not to support a project with his name attached.
The game should've launched at a lower budget on the Unity engine. Build up your reputation from there.
Bobs Big Boy
Member
Too bad, I hope they retool this with all they've learned. If there's a passion to create something that can be created no other way, I firmly believe there's a Kickstarter outcome to match that project. It's just finding what that is.
doctorcdcs
Member
Damnit. I just wanted to play more eternal darkness.
abstract alien
Member
I find it a bit hard to believe that a have that looked that nice couldn't get a publisher of any kind. Then again, I don't know shit. Just observing, but it seems like something that could make somewhat of a profit. I mean, it didn't look worthless or anything.
Is it just because of Dennis being involved?
Is it just because of Dennis being involved?
I dont like this narrative that this failed because people have something against the studio, it failed because the studio has been irrelevant for about a decade and people are simply apathetic towards this offerings. Just compare the threads about them 5 years ago to the ones these past month, people arent mad, they arent hating, there is just very few that care.
This. It's about fans and disposable income in the end.
JasonUresti
Member
Silicon Knights have only produced quality work when they had someone else to help them do the heavy lifting. Without the guiding hand of more capable management, Dyack has not produced anything but mild curiosities.
Neuromancer
Member
I bet Nintendo came on as an angel investor.
Really?
I just don't understand how anyone could actually be hoping for this.
As it stands Nintendo ended up pulling out of ED2 from SK and are very reserved in things they invest in that aren't first party. Combine these two things with how poorly this has done and all I can see is Nintendo running for the god damn hills.
Thanks for being the voice of reason as always Shikamaru. Unfortunately you're speaking on deaf ears on here for the most part. There is no possibly way to have anything close to a positive discussion when it comes to anything about Dyack. And if you search the forum archives, you can find that he's been the target of malicious attacks since even before he actually began actively posting here. Of course, most people now will justify that by saying "ha! we were right" or something.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
1. No, they're a Canadian developer.
2. Nintendo facilitated the acquisition of character art.
3. Do you want a true spiritual sequel to Eternal Darkness by modern standards, or a subpar installment in the 'stellar' franchise?
Also if people bothered to read the budget breakdown. The CryENGINE part was not a big part of it. Going with Unity wouldn't have made much of a difference. If you want to make high quality 3D art (and you can bet if they'd be shit on for "crappy last-gen graphics" if they did not go that route), it is going to cost more. That's why, even though Unity is free, most indie devs that use small budgets games honestly look like bleh.