The AMD cards I referenced both had GDDR5, even the Xbone equivalent.
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TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One
- Thread starter chubigans
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The AMD cards I referenced both had GDDR5, even the Xbone equivalent.
The PC crowd whine like hell when they move all the sliders to the right and their $1000 dollar PC chugs.
If the PC crowd moved all the sliders to the left and selected 720p as a resolution they would have found their $400 PC would have run the game better than the consoles.
I played the game on my laptop on a plane years ago at 720p and medium settings. (The ps3 version ran less than that.) The laptop was powered by the 65w in seat power point. The game really needed a quad core CPU as it was a quad core engine.
Monty Mole
Member
Guys, it's just a box that plays games and does some entertainment stuff.
While I'm not the biggest console fan, with my last platform being PlayStation 2 all those years ago, I would still like to see both consoles do well. Having one "fail" and the other "succeed" would cause some pretty bad damage to the industry, no matter the whole DRM issues and what not.
Also I really want a Kinect 2.0. Say what you will about it and the "casual" appeal, but that piece of technology can offer some very interesting gameplay changes especially with the emotion tracking and insanely accurate muscle movement.
Also I really want a Kinect 2.0. Say what you will about it and the "casual" appeal, but that piece of technology can offer some very interesting gameplay changes especially with the emotion tracking and insanely accurate muscle movement.
No, we must have our console wars! Stop making sense!
We just want it to do well.
DangerDave
Member
I know the Christmas release is important, but to gimp the gpu's clock rate for the entire consoles lifespan just to release in time ain't worth it. It's not like they could do a firmware update to increase the clock rate, right?
Dude Gaf has threads that are pages long which discuss the fact that the 360 has a particular game that runs 2 fps higher and there's slightly more grass in it than the PS3.
This shit we have here is close to epic mind blowing proportions by comparison.
Maastricht
Member
This is a lot of speculation on a topic that I don't trust to be reliable the week before E3 (based on previous experiences). General public is too ready to believe rumors. It also doesn't really make sense - 800/1.6 is a really good performance/heat balance for these chips (hence I have treated rumors about upclocking to 1.0/2.0 equally suspicious), and isn't eSRAM integrated on the chip? If so, it's either the whole chip or nothing? How is a downclock a solution to such yield problems?
I can only imagine how many people had to run to the restroom to shit out their hopes and dreams today
No, because if they decide to underclock all the systems for yields, that means that some %age of the released systems are only working because they are underclocked, and would fail if a firmware update increased the clock rate.
fatgamecat
Member
I believe MS did something similar with a 360 firmware update, and offered a new 360 to any affected owners. Of course this might be a bit larger in scope than that.
Nick Laslett
Member
Nice, witty comprehensive summary, thanks Amir0x.
From the list I've been keeping you could add:
1. Region locked. (Not sure if it did get confirmed?)
2. Backwards compatibility. (Sorry if people don't think this is an issue, but with both the PS3 and 360 people have significant downloaded software, as well as discs.)
3. The dismissive attitude to BC. (Andriod, iOS, Windows and MacOS all accommodate BC. Consoles need to do this period.)
I still have questions about DLNA media sharing, and what audio/video formats this thing will support. No fan of AppleTV being so locked down on codecs or the PS3 restriction to FAT HDD format to restrict <2gb files, it would be another nail in the Xbone coffin if these things were similarly deficient.
You can forget the 1GHz/2GHz completely because thats not happening based on the Jaguar TDP numbers we got directly from AMD.
Second, you are confusing defect in yield versus yield for target clock. You could get 80 functional dies out of 100 for example but only 60 can hit the target clock within the TDP.
bigbaldwolf86
Banned
No this is a problem that personally affects my life. How can I love my children if I can't love my console?
Stiflers Mom
Banned
this...
something fishy
Member
so many assumptions being made in that list above including comments that have already been confirmed not to be true (like indie support). Much of the speculation has just been taken as fact. You really can't judge without the facts.
The dev tools issue sounds nonsense to me. MS do these things as a core part of their business and do them well and have always been ahead on the simplicity and quality of those. we're to believe they've just scrapped them all now?
personally I'm just going to wait and see and wait to see what the facts actually are. I can't see myself getting either of the new consoles at the moment but I will wait for more facts and to see the end products.
The dev tools issue sounds nonsense to me. MS do these things as a core part of their business and do them well and have always been ahead on the simplicity and quality of those. we're to believe they've just scrapped them all now?
personally I'm just going to wait and see and wait to see what the facts actually are. I can't see myself getting either of the new consoles at the moment but I will wait for more facts and to see the end products.
You have to change your engine, if you want to utilize the eDRAM to set off the main RAM's lower bandwidth. I doubt anybody did this for their Wii U ports, that's what's so disappointing about them. There's a much higher chance they will do this for Xbone (think PS3 ports of games originally developed on 360 - completely different issue technically (port to Cell CPU architecture) - but similar situation). Maybe it could even benefit Wii U since once they did it once, they'll realize it's not that hard to do for other ports? One can hope.
A lot of the issues seem to stem from the current leadership in the Xbox Division. Many of the people from the original Xbox and Xbox 360 days are gone, and it shows.
something fishy
Member
I definitely think the loss of Moore has hurt them. They seem to have moved away from their core games console vision to something totally different under Mattrick. It's looking like he could kill the division off if this gamer vitriol carries across to normal people.
To many suits, not enough gaming reference t-shirts.
The goal is obviously no longer to sell 100 million game consoles and taunt Sony and Nintendo, the goal is now to match and even surpass Apple and Google, their line of thinking is likely "if Apple and Samsung can sell this many devices in this short time period, then why cant we? We are god damn Microsoft!".
The old Xbox team was not thinking like that and that really shows the difference
The old Xbox team was not thinking like that and that really shows the difference
Xbox two, first you were the remote, now you are the battery.
WrenchNinja
Member
Microsoft run by the Wachowski siblings in the future huh
fatgamecat
Member
MS is chasing after the iOS/Android market while neglecting their existing customers. They'll end up with neither type of customer.
Xbox One isn't a real cable box or a DVR. Smart TV + Cable box w/ built in DVR has every media feature as Xbox One, but better and with less DRM.
Once smart TVs or cable box DVRs can start playing iOS/Android level games, it's going to be even worse for Xbox One and home consoles in general. It will only get worse as hardware improves.
All Xbox One offers is an HDMI overlay which failed with webtv, googletv, and will fail here as well.
Maybe they have the advantage of a 'good enough' games console and kinect, but core gamers won't go for it.
Xbox One isn't a real cable box or a DVR. Smart TV + Cable box w/ built in DVR has every media feature as Xbox One, but better and with less DRM.
Once smart TVs or cable box DVRs can start playing iOS/Android level games, it's going to be even worse for Xbox One and home consoles in general. It will only get worse as hardware improves.
All Xbox One offers is an HDMI overlay which failed with webtv, googletv, and will fail here as well.
Maybe they have the advantage of a 'good enough' games console and kinect, but core gamers won't go for it.
If you honestly think they only just started making the console in 2010 or something like that I have some news for you.
The current Xbox strategy just seems to be to just toss a huge net out there and try to make as much money as possible. Make a machine that has a very broad market appeal. Get those grannies waving around in front of Kinect 2.0, turn it into dad's new sports box, and for little Jimmy this thing still does Call of Duty. Providing you with an improved core gaming experience comes after all of that.
Their very strong focus on TV and sports during the console reveal makes that message very apparent.
They really have to blow the doors off E3 to get themselves into a different light. Or do they? I mean, it's gross to us, the enthusiasts. At the end of the day it could still be a huge success. As much as this machine doesn't seem like it's for me, I'm certainly not doubting it's ability to be a main stream success, sort of in the same way the Wii was.
michaelius
Banned
Yep i can't wait for first Digital Foundry articles once next gens are released.
Just wait until there's a cross-gen game between the Xbox One, PS4, and Wii U...
fatgamecat
Member
Portable game systems are being hit hard by smartphones that play 'good enough' games. Home consoles will be hit hard by next gen smart tvs or cable box DVRs that play 'good enough' games, not to mention more powerful PCs that you can also get work done on.
I don't think there's a bright future for gaming exclusive devices in general, not just the Xbox One. Smartphones and tablets are eating into just about every facet of the tech market.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
There will always be people who pay for some more oomph than what "good enough" brings to the table.
What are the odds of that happening?
FlutterPuffs
Member
Absolutely nothing?
Turn 10 Studios is a quality studio and I'm sure they are doing everything they can to squeeze out the power from Xbox One. Don't forget that they have been in the business for a decade, and I think Forza Motorsport will look and play pretty spectacular.
Plus I don't think there would be much difference in quality between PS4 and Xbox One games in the first year.
fatgamecat
Member
Sure, but prepare for shrinking budgets and fewer big budget releases. Which kind of defeats the purpose of a powerful games machine in the first place, if not enough money can be invested into taking advantage of the hardware.
Sandy Nipples
Banned
Probably something heavy mainstream like Call of Duty.
Well, I know the mainstream press in comparison articles don't look at it the way amirox posted above. The tv connection thing looks cool. but even in my office, the x360 guys are turning on this thing.
Seems like gaf is against the xbone, as are core gamers, if IGN's survey is to be believed. They really need to turn this ship around. And price is the thing that will do it. If they are more expensive than the ps4, they only have those mainstreamers and the few that will buy the console anyways, buying it. I think that number will be higher than wiiu numbers, but x360's success is going to be hard to replicate. From where we are standing now.
Seems like gaf is against the xbone, as are core gamers, if IGN's survey is to be believed. They really need to turn this ship around. And price is the thing that will do it. If they are more expensive than the ps4, they only have those mainstreamers and the few that will buy the console anyways, buying it. I think that number will be higher than wiiu numbers, but x360's success is going to be hard to replicate. From where we are standing now.
Anticitizen One
Banned
I predict matrick will resign in a year if the x1 bombs
I suppose you're probably right, considering the predictions of a not incredibly cheap launch price for the XBone.
If they could get this thing down to around $300-$250 at some point, then my scenario is possible I would think. And it does have the TV and DVR stuff heavily integrated into it. They are trying to follow that market, and they at least have the pieces to do it.
My thinking is if something catches fire, there's always a market for it. You would think in a struggling economy, expensive commodity items like the iPad wouldn't sell as much as they do. If people want something enough, there's room for it.
Dragon1893
Member
They can still deliver on those promises. They'll just have to cut other things to maintain the frame-rate and resolution. It's always a matter of compromise.
It's hard to believe that the One's development is this messy. There was already a significant difference between both consoles. Further downclocking the GPU sure wont help matters but apparently games are a secondary feature at this point so it probably doesn't bother them.
pieatorium
Member
AC4 is the only one confirmed for all 3 atm i think
edit: maybe watchdogs aswell
if the downclocked GPU is still a rumour, then the critical factor is how bad is 'bad' for yields? You probably accept a certain level of poor yields initially and suck up the cost, but is it 'bad so it costs us way more than expected but we can pay' or 'bad so we can't physically get enough chips for a meaningful global launch'?
Bummer. I remember my first racing game was on the original Xbox. Since then, I've dabbled in demos and such... but never actually purchased a racing game.
Even with compromise, I'm betting Forza 5 will blow my socks off.
fatgamecat
Member
For Xbox One to catch on as a successful tv device, it needs to be a real cable box with coax input and have DVR functionality. Or DVR at the very least.
Then again I keep reading TV viewership is declining as people increasingly consume media content on their mobile devices or netflix like services. The problem with netflix is cable providers have a vested interest in choking off internet media streaming.
UGH, it's the worst. Nothing like going to watch something on Netflix that you saw there a month or two ago, only to discover that it's no longer available for streaming.
brain_stew
Member
There is no DVR integration, which is why the TV support is a complete waste of time.
Microsoft already rolled out proper IPTV integration with on demand support in the UK this generation on the dominant pay TV platform (something far more useful than their garbage IR blaster solution with Xbone) and nobody cared. Sony had proper DVR support for the PS3 in Europe, something far more ambitious than the Xbone's TV support and yet again, nobody cared.
Microsoft's half arsed TV integration isn't selling any hardware.
It's a far inferior game console from a hardware perspective, it has a higher rumoured RRP, you have to pay to play online, the TV integration is a complete waste of time, it has restrictive DRM and a vastly inferior stable of first party content.
Oh, well then. Haha.
But I mean, it could still theoretically be capable of using the DVR on your cable box? Do we know there's 100 percent no DVR support?
it will still be a great game
Depending on the skill and choices of the developer I am sure they can do 1080p at 60 fps if they want to. It was possible on the PS3 so why should it not be possible on the Uno?
The difference in visual quality and fidelity will probably be visible when compared to a similar PS4 game running at 1080p/60fps though.
I can't wait for the comparison on which console has the best looking dog.
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