It's not that they've scrapped them, it's that Sony are ahead of Microsoft in this area, plus MS' X1 has a more difficult architecture to program for than the PS4, as it's been mentioned before the roles seem to have been reversed from PS3 and Xbox 360.
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TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One
- Thread starter chubigans
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It's not that they've scrapped them, it's that Sony are ahead of Microsoft in this area, plus MS' X1 has a more difficult architecture to program for than the PS4, as it's been mentioned before the roles seem to have been reversed from PS3 and Xbox 360.
Trick question. The dog looks like shit in all three versions.
BUT WE MOTION CAPTURED THESE GERMAN SHEPHERDS.
something fishy
Member
good call, he probably will. it could be too late for them though. An underpowered machine has definitely gone against what attracted many of us to the xbox.
A couple of places - The Verge and All Things Digital - said the Xbone can't interface with DVR at all.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Does yield mean how much heat is generated?
Am I a bit thick?
Am I a bit thick?
It's as if Microsoft didn't ask a single person what they actually do when they watch cable TV.
Or maybe the person in charge of developing the TV integration is a time traveler from 2003 and this totally makes sense.
GoofsterStud
Member
An amount yielded or produced; a product.
A profit obtained from an investment; a return.
Bad yields basically mean to many failures. It could be heat, they could just not work, they might not meet the recommended specs, etc.
It means how many chips you can produce at a certain quality.
Maybe I miss some: - Shoebox design - Fake clapping - TV device sold separately - No RROD, does not exist
Yield is how many usable chips you get during manufacture. All the chips are tested, some fail. The yield is the percentage that pass.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
That is not how this works.
1. Narrower BUS leads to higher overhead. So you have less usable bandwidth, increased latencies and expend more time processing data. GPUs suffers a lot with narrow buses.
2. Unified memory pool makes better use of bandwidth. You don't have a PCIe between GPU/VRAM and CPU/Main RAM. PC's GPUs have to brute force a lot of things to avoid that interface.
3. You are missing on purpose esRAM and movers.
You can't overclock a 128 bit BUS. This is just like that nonsense of compare GPUs using raw GFlops performance. Remember me of times when people compared CPUs using MIPS. For any given total bandwidth, it's better a bigger bus and slower ram than otherwise. This was an old debate at GTX280 (DDR3, 512 bits) vs HD4890 (GDDR5, 256 bits) era:
http://www.hwcompare.com/1473/geforce-gtx-280-vs-radeon-hd-4890-1gb/
Industry moved to GDDR5 because it provides cheaper bandwidth, not because magic. Big buses are expensive both at chip and PCB. Even so, Nvidia delayed the transition as much as possible because of performance loses. But do not derrail, my point is that is better to have 60GB/s from DDR3 in a 256bit bus than from GDDR5 in a 128bit BUS for a GPU. Those 60GB/s aren't the same, you should know that. Do you or are you just pretending?
We now, for sure, than PS4 have more bandwidth than needed for such a mid tier GPU. Question here is if One GPU will be bandwidth starved or not with 68.3 GB/s and 102 GB/s (Not 68+102=170 as I'm used to read here) . You DON'T need 176GB/s to max such GPU. And much less in a GPU that is already slower than PS4 one.
If you ask me, I'm more worried about esram not being big enough with only 32mb than bandwidth.
Jesus, it's the same shit from Wii U threads all over again.
Easy, easy, I'm an unarmed citizen. Don't shoot me!
Lol, and what if so? Your One 'equivalent' still have half the bus width and no extra bandwidth. It's GDDR5 the magic sauce now?
Yes, we all know PS4 solution is better and smarter than MS design. I would say more, it will be cheaper to manufacture in the future, with memory shrinking both in size and price, whereas MS will have to use expensive legacy DDR3 and a ton of chips. It always happens that overengineered consoles fails some way or another. Trying to solve problems so ahead on time is a waste of resources, because other specialized companies will do better. Happened to Saturn trying to overcome japanese CPUs lack of power. Happened to PS2 and 3 lacking GPU capabilities, and now it's happening to One lack of memory size. All problems that were solved at release time by other companies.
But you are trying to sell a PS2 to Xbox gap, and I'm not buying that.
My guesses:
Scenario 1: One GPU have higher clocks than PS4 GPU (As it should). Minor differences, close to 360 to PS3.
Scenario 2: Same clocks. Mild difference, Digital Foundry goes out of bussines some months after consoles release.
Scenario 3: One have lower clocks, LOL festival. Slowdowns even on sport transmissions.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
ThisWreckage
Banned
These deals might already be in place. Maybe that's why we didn't see Call of Duty or Battlefield at Sony's PS4 unveiling event.
The Xbox One will be fine because consumers are stupid. Microsoft knows this. Many people bought multiple Xbox 360 consoles due to hardware failure and many people paid for Live even after a price increase. So consumers have shown Microsoft that they will come crawling back time and time again. NA will still be Xbox country but Xbox One will absolutely struggle worldwide.
The Xbox One will be fine because consumers are stupid. Microsoft knows this. Many people bought multiple Xbox 360 consoles due to hardware failure and many people paid for Live even after a price increase. So consumers have shown Microsoft that they will come crawling back time and time again. NA will still be Xbox country but Xbox One will absolutely struggle worldwide.
That's my thinking on all of this.
I'm a part of a smaller gaming community that caters primarily to 30-50 year olds, with jobs and families. They're all incredibly invested in Xbox Live and the Xbox in general. Even after several members explaining to them explicitly why the Xbox One could turn out to be hot shit, I'd say about 80 percent of them still 100 percent plan to buy the console near launch.
(Edit: Most of these people live in middle America. So it's that same demographic you spoke of.)
It's not just about overheating, it's about producing functional chips. Poor yields also means it takes longer to ramp up production. Just look at how long nVidia took to release GF100 and even then it was a terrible chip with supply constraints.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Don't get me wrong, I think Sony will regain market share back. I think that the Xbox One will be the preferred console for NA, but Sony launching at the same time (or maybe even before) and near a similar price will be a godsend for them.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
Go ahead, recicle House gifs from the time people like me said that 360 was more powerful than PS3 and than none was able to output native 1080p.
Good old times.
Lot of fun when Beyond3D started to count pixels.
Let me laugh again;Go ahead, recicle House gifs from the time people like me said that 360 was more powerful than PS3 and than none was able to output native 1080p.
Good old times.
Lot of fun when Beyond3D started to count pixels.
:lol
Breaking news for you; Nvidia didnt adopt GDDR5 first because AMD/ATI co-developed GDDR5 with JEDEC, primarily because of their sweet spot strategy.
Shake Appeal
Member
Ether.
Sandy Nipples
Banned
Love these tech threads, the months before console releases are better than the actual post release! Its mayhem!
So saying that the console's issues aren't a problem for me personally is defending them? I don't doubt these issues will hurt their chances of success, but as I said, these things don't bother me.
I think you need a break from here for a while.
They'll be very low quality frames, the kind that are mass produced in Vietnamese sweatshops by children. You shouldn't be surprised if quite a few of the frames are tatty around the edges or sometimes even missing a corner. And because of the lower quality dyes that they use, they'll have worse colours too.
I don't know, I think that would be pretty cool. Like something out of Small Soldiers.
Rising_Hei
Member
Only that PS3 managed to reverse the situation and get the best looking games, too.
I feel like the PS4 would fucking sell like gangbusters to start with if they're actually able to get their price down close to what is being rumored.
Actually, you can!
In fact, that's how bandwidth is calculated in the first place. It's (bits per cycle [bus width])*(effective cycles per second). Thus, for the PS4 we get (32 bytes per cycle)*5.5GHz which nets us... 176GB/s! Amazing.
Interestingly, this means that if you have two memory architectures, one with half the bus width but both with the same amount of bandwidth, the narrower bus would be running at twice the speed. If the actual memory had the same latency in number of clocks, then the one with the narrower bus would have half the measured latency in time of the the wide-bused memory. But latency is more determined by the memory itself rather than anything having to do with the bus.
Add that to the fact that GPUs are built to be extremely memory latency tolerant (seriously, their memory latencies are AWFUL), and you end up with the bandwidth being the grand factor when it comes to the overall effect memory has on GPU performance, regardless of bus width.
So lets gets this straight. You're saying if the Xbone launches without any clock downgrade, even though the PS4 is stronger in all areas, especially (significantly) in GPU grunt and memory bandwidth, the differences will be so minuscule even DF won't be able to point out differences? OK.
I've bookmarked this thread for later lols.
I don't really see why people think DF will continue to do the face offs. They're there because the differences to the untrained eye are so small this gen that you need to hook up specialist hardware to measure 2fps dips in framerate difference between the two. Next gen the differences will be immediately noticeable. Beyond a pat on the back for fanboys it's difficult to imagine what the purpose of hooking up all that equipment for would be just to inform people that the 1080p 60fps version is better than the 720p ~40fps version.
cloud power?
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Wasn't there a rumor that Sony was upping the CPU clocks also? How would that change its specs?
How about GDDR5 with a 256bits BUS? Because that's what the PS4 has.
If you read the Kaveri reviews, you'll see the TDP increasing 66% from 1.6GHz to 2GHz. That 2GHz rumor is very unlikely given this info.
They're running a business, if they expect it'll gets clicks they're likely to do it. Even if it's only to state the obvious (in ever so excruciating details).
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
DF will get a ton of clicks if they do comparisons between the Xbone and PS4 versions of the same games, as the entire Sony vs MS "console war" is ramping up, everyone is doing all sorts of comparisons, just go to GT, they know people want to see that stuff.
But in 2 years after release will people still care? If its well established that PS4 games always look and run better then i can imagine interest tethering off in DF, there would be no mystery to it
But in 2 years after release will people still care? If its well established that PS4 games always look and run better then i can imagine interest tethering off in DF, there would be no mystery to it
zomgbbqftw
Banned
So we heard back from our semi-conductor sources overnight.
They all said the same thing, can't say specific to a single product, but anything that complex and large is bound to have yield issues. The last time one of them had a similar product to fabricate yields were below 30%.
They all said the same thing, can't say specific to a single product, but anything that complex and large is bound to have yield issues. The last time one of them had a similar product to fabricate yields were below 30%.
People like to quote Anand on that a lot it seems. Don't forget that figure had the GPU included as well.
What.
Maybe you should contact the guys over at Digital Foundry that they need to pack it up and go home. They obviously havent realised yet!
poor guys
I guess. I usually find their tech analysis more interesting, anyway.
Oh snap.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Wow. I don't even...
...
Well, the one redeeming quality of that post was that, for some reason, while I was reading it, I started mentally "hearing" the entire post being read by early-90s post-cold war hack comic Yakov Smirnov.
Not my reading comprehension, but your English. Even this post is bearly parsable.
You said if the clocks were the same - which is the current status - there would only be a "mild difference" between the PS4 and Xbone. Your words, not mine.
That is comedy festival. First you neglected raw flop power on the same architecture , then you said 60GB/s =/= 60GB/s and then you posted above like there would be situation that xbone and ps4 will have parity in therm of graphic.
There is no situation where xbone will have better graphic than ps4. Raw power in therm of flop says that because it is same hardware and any special souce or eSram can't change that. It is either 600 or 800 gflop difference and it will show
DF will continue.
you forget to factor in the inevitable "PC vs PS4 vs XBONE" comparisons.
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