Iwata is a scapegoat now, nothing more, nothing less.
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Iwata: "We just don't care what other companies are doing"
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Iwata is a scapegoat now, nothing more, nothing less.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Iwata is right.
Following all the other companies got them a GameCube.
Ignoring all the other companies got them a Wii.
If Nintendo is to survive, they have to offer something completely different from others.
Following all the other companies got them a GameCube.
Ignoring all the other companies got them a Wii.
If Nintendo is to survive, they have to offer something completely different from others.
So Iwata just admitted he runs a company inside of a bubble? That's great. Recognizing the problem is the first step.
The thing is they could do that when they were leading with the Wii because after the -profiteable but by no means sucessful- GameCube going blue ocean was the only way they had to be relevant again. That proved to be a great move.
But WiiU aims to have ALL kinds of video game players around the world. And if you want to have everyone by your side you have to know what your competitors offer and improve upon. But WiiU doesn't even deliver on services 7 year old consoles are providing now and it does not allow developers to easily bring the games future machines will play, making it look like a product stuck in a weird limbo between the things we were doing and playing on 2009 and unique features that have potential but no real demand or aren't being used to make games more appealing. I don't know if Iwata just does not care about the competition or he doesn't care about anything at all, even Nintendo.
The thing is they could do that when they were leading with the Wii because after the -profiteable but by no means sucessful- GameCube going blue ocean was the only way they had to be relevant again. That proved to be a great move.
But WiiU aims to have ALL kinds of video game players around the world. And if you want to have everyone by your side you have to know what your competitors offer and improve upon. But WiiU doesn't even deliver on services 7 year old consoles are providing now and it does not allow developers to easily bring the games future machines will play, making it look like a product stuck in a weird limbo between the things we were doing and playing on 2009 and unique features that have potential but no real demand or aren't being used to make games more appealing. I don't know if Iwata just does not care about the competition or he doesn't care about anything at all, even Nintendo.
In regards to the Gamecube, releasing a powerful console /= following all the other companies. It was Nintendo's draconian policies and neglect of key burgeoning features (online, mature games) that were drastically different from their competitor's approach and led to the 'Cube underperforming.
In regards to the Wii, Nintendo may have ignored other companies, but that's NOT what made the Wii successful. The Wii was successful before Nintendo DIDN'T ignore the market. Unfortunately, ignore the market is exactly what they did this time around and is why the Wii U is failing.
If Nintendo is to survive, they need to realize that they can't just be different for different's sake. SMART innovation. INFORMED innovation. NOT throwing-shit-at-a-wall-and-hoping-something-sticks innovation. The Wii U is an example of the latter and, surprise surprise, nothing's sticking.
Although his post was ill informed there is still some truth to it. As in there are no new ips (Nintendoland aside) from Nintendos internal teams on the console. As much as I love Nintendoland that is what I really want to see and not being relegated to 3rd party exclusive offerings...
The Librarian
Banned
His?
What are Nintendo's "internal studios"? Is Retro internal? Because if they are, so is Monolith. And if they're not, that pretty much only leaves EAD - and EAD is tiny.
metalslimer
Member
So they release a console based around being a tablet knockoff and tried to latch onto the 3d craze with the 3DS. All Nintendo has been doing the last few years is being reactive and not proactive. They remind me of MS.
IrishNinja
Member
online wasn't a factor with the GC, had nothing to do with PS2 market domination either (which you left off entirely). as for mature content - seriously? most of the capcom 5 was just that, they had laxed their censorship policies/etc so it's not like they were turning down GTA/etc offers. and specifically which draconian policies?
no, it very much ignored the market - you just got done saying why they did in the example that fits your narrative, only those examples made no sense. they ignored online in a time when it was booming, they ignored specs when their major competitors were pushing for media centers with HD graphics.
the wii ignored the market so hard, iwata himself said apple was their more direct competition. you're picking and choosing very odd things for this thesis of yours.
i didn't see fisher-price this page, so take that as a plus
JordanN
Banned
Gamecube was different believe it or not.
Nintendo did a fantastic job making sure it didn't play DVD's, was painted purple and used a control scheme like no other.
So why didn't it sell like Wii? I think it's because the above was what no one wanted back then.
Moral of the story is: it's not about following/being different, it's about making things people actually want. Although this is really Business 101.
It may not have had much to do with PS2's dominance that gen, but it had everything to do with the Xbox coming out of nowhere and snatching second place from Nintendo by the end of the gen. Even Sony bothered to cook up some sort of fleshed out response to the popularity of Xbox Live.
...I take it you missed all of Nintendo's powerpoint presentations about how gaming was becoming too complex and isolated to appeal to general audiences and the theories behind their blue ocean strategy? The Wii at its very core was a response to the general market.
IrishNinja
Member
sure, but if you're gonna count the PS2 broadband (what was that, FF XI + RE Outbreak?) i don't see why we're not counting the GC's for PSO and...whatever else it did.
ah, we sort've conflated the ignoring competition with ignoring the market there...i see your point, i don't argue with this much at all.
family_guy
Member
Sorry, but what are you actually playing on Wii U right now?
The guy wsippel answered to.
The Librarian
Banned
Who? Me?
Nikodemos
Member
So was the N64. Using cartridges when the other two went for discs, meaning that, while a 640 MB CD ended up costing $0.35, a 64 MB cart cost $3.5. The only reason it managed to tread water was because the Saturn was overall even worse, and because it brought some widely accepted innovation to the table (4-player local multi).
I've been recently polishing off Need for Speed and Scribblenauts on my UK one, and Pokémon Rumble U on the Japanese one I have for my site. I've also got a lot of use out of the Virtual Console
Did not think about Monolith (not an RPG fan myself). Sure they are internal. Still I would like to see some really original stuff from EAD...
Yeah, you (sorry to call you a guy if you are not. Did not check because I am on my phone).
Nah, I'll say whatever the fuck I feel like saying, thank you very much. The console has been selling absolutely absymally in all regions. We arent getting any heavy hitters with mass market appeal till 2014. Smash and Mario Kart, those will move some consoles, but how much will sales spike and how long will such momentum last? The upcoming months will truly be fascinating.
You under-estimate the appeal of multiplayer 3D Mario
It appeals to the same audience that the console already would appeal to. 3D Mario does not have the appeal of a Mario Kart or Smash. Those games appeal to a wider variety of people. Nintendo needs to foster a new audience if they want to ever reach Wii levels of success, not their shrinking diehard base. Sales will prove me wrong or right, we'll see.
couldn´t agree more, many if not most games I got for my 360 even though I like em make me yawn very quickly, but games like Lego City Undercover keep me preoccupied for lot´s longer since it´s something new and different, I believe it´s called innovation.
...just like people underestimated the appeal of multiplayer 2D Mario?
Yep, NSMBU sure showed them.
Zoramon089
Banned
But it did...it's got a 60+% attach rate...
FindMyFarms
Member
?? What the hell are you playing?? The only game i've enjoyed on Wii U is Monster Hunter 3, and that's pretty much a 3ds game on a console. The wii u exclusives (nintendo land, zombie U, and nsmb wii u) all had me yawning really fast. There were like 2 decent minigames on nintendoland tops, and everything else sucked.
On a console selling at unprecedent low levels for Nintendo.
This reminds me of the part of Iwata's statement that people seem to be ignoring. His insistence that they create software to move the hardware. I actually think they've cultivated a platform where the reverse is true. Software does not sell Nintendo hardware. At least, not their consoles. This would explain why their 1st party titles typically sell well and have high attach rates even if the console itself is selling poorly.
Nintendo can get you to buy their games if you already bought into the ecosystem. But the software itself doesn't move units more often than not.
In all fairness NSMBU is the only reason why Wii U survived launch.
Vermillion
Banned
Who's to say NSMBU didn't move systems? It's possible that Wii U would have sold far worse sans NSMBU. Tragic, to be sure, but still.
Dark Octave
Banned
lol Damn. My feelings exactly.
metalslimer
Member
You could try actually responding instead of getting so offended everytime someone is critical. I said Nintendo seems reactionary instead of proactive like they did with the Wii/DS. This reminds of MS's products in the smartphone and tablet space the last few years reacting to what Apple did instead of trying to forge a new path. Don't act like I said Nintendo is just bad as MS with gaming measures. You don't need to be in defense mode 100% of the time.
I agree, WiiU has a Tablet Gamepad slighty because tablets are popular, and Nintendo knows it~
Vermillion
Banned
Identical? I never really got this. As it stands, PS4X1 can do everything a Wii U can do, it's just packed in on Wii U. Furthermore, X1 has Kinect and PS4 has its touchpad and PSEye. The consoles aren't identical just because both of them actually *get* multiplats. Wii U could stand to have more power and multiplats while still getting the games that it does.
Not if you listen to 3rd parties. Apparently, if they can't use the Gamepad in any meaningful way, even having equal power is useless.
I think the issue is that what if what the other companies are doing is what the market wants?
Going down a different road just because its different doesn't necessarily mean its right. Conversely, if the other consoles are selling gangbusters and you can barely move units, maybe seeing what they're doing correctly should be on the table.
Going down a different road just because its different doesn't necessarily mean its right. Conversely, if the other consoles are selling gangbusters and you can barely move units, maybe seeing what they're doing correctly should be on the table.
SporeCrawler
Member
NSMBU alone or with Nintendoland obviously could not sustain WiiU for a long time after the initial launch period.
However it will still be available and will have an updated version (NSLU) when the holiday system sellers arrive.
I think the general principle that software sells hardware has not changed and i dont think anything in wiius sales pattern says otherwise so far.
well nintendos approach to this was to look at what people (not necessarily typical customer of gaming companies) would want even if they dont really know what they want. that was why DS and Wii was so successful in Nintendos thinking.
As a gamer I dont see the merit of hardware that is just PS4 with nintendo games on it. I like the fact that there is hardware that is doing different stuff.
Yeesh, it's not even defense, I'm just annoyed with the rampant hyperbole lately. It's like people think having such an outlandish opinion makes what they're saying so "critical".
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Why did you have to tell it like it is? Goddamn thats the truth. QFT
Freezie KO
Banned
I don't mean to be hyperbolic, but PS3-level graphics are immoral and unethical.
Which games are the huge system sellers that everyone is talking about? Mario 3D World, Zelda WW and Pikmin 3? They might move a few systems but they won't sell millions.
I've been with Nintendo since the NES and this is their worst console to date (other than virtualboy).
They should create a console just as powerful as the others. All multiplats and Nintendo games would be a great system. Just don't make it a purple cube this time.
I've been with Nintendo since the NES and this is their worst console to date (other than virtualboy).
They should create a console just as powerful as the others. All multiplats and Nintendo games would be a great system. Just don't make it a purple cube this time.
The Librarian
Banned
So is 60 FPS.
ColonialRaptor
Member
Something that really gets to me about the Wii U is that it seems so capable of doing visuals much better than the games that are being released for it are showing... at least that's what we were lead to believe with all of the original tech demo's and such - and some games do look pretty spectacular, however pretty much everything Nintendo showed at E3 just looked like HD Wii games (perhaps with a little bit more than that), but the graphics in most of the Nintendo games aren't anywhere near the level of something like Ratchet and Clank which I think is a great benchmark for a Nintendo's style in HD.
I just don't understand what they're trying to do. Why release this powerful console and not make use of the power that they've allowed? It's why the Wii really died at the end of it's life-cycle, people have become accustomed to HD now and when the new Sony and Microsoft consoles hit it's going to be another Wii vs PS3 and 360 situation and people have already wisened on to the fact that Sony and Microsoft have a more pretty picture.
If people think that I'm shallow because I care about good graphics then so be it, but it's the truth, we have eyes for a reason and we all enjoy beautiful things. Gameplay > Graphics is such a bullshit term. Graphics and Gameplay are on an equal playing field IMO, they should compliment one another completely. But what can Nintendo do with their characters? I mean... it's not like they can model them in infinitely more detail... but at least give us some sort of different graphics style. Like, SOMETHING different at least... just SOMETHING. Wind Waker is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
I think Smash Bros U is just a big crappy slop pit. I would have loved all of the characters to have had a bit of a 'stylistic' re-design for the game so that they all look the same / similar for the game and then release the game as an amazingly top level looking Cel-Shaded game, it's something the Wii U could do and it's the perfect game for it because the combat is still 2D.
Or evolve different things about the games... SOMETHING... things are getting SO SO stale with Nintendo. I can't say I don't enjoy the characters, but they're not even really trying to innovate with NEW characters, or new franchises.
Put some real development into coming up with some real new characters that they can ad to their list. At this stage they should be really trying to expand their universe further and further every year, but instead it seems to be shrinking and even if you're not going to expand the universe, make games based off different characters from those universes.
Give Luigi an actual platform game that is a Luigi game (and no I'm not just meaning Luigi's Mansion which is still cool). Instead of releasing Mario 3d World, release Luigi 3D world or SOMETHING.
Nintendo pride themselves on being the 'kings of innovation' but the Wii U is completely failing because their is nothing but a complete lack of innovation in the software for the console. I personally have found no real point to having a screen on the controller, it's a nice idea in concept but it has really done nothing for the games, yes it makes the home console almost like a 'DS' and is 'useful' but it's not groundbreaking AT ALL.
I also think that Nintendo moved away from the 'Galaxy' style game for Mario because it sold diddeley squat compared to the NSMB series on the Wii which is just a sad series of events. Can't they see that the market that owned the Wii at that point was a totally different one to the types that are buying the Wii U right now?
All in all it feels to me like Nintendo needs some fresh young faces to be put up into some higher places to make some decisions for the company and really push some new direction on things. Development times need to be sped up drastically - I mean, how can it take so long to get all these damn games ready.
This is really my first kind of rant that I've made about the Wii U but it's so disappointing to me because Nintendo has always been my favorite developer but I have absolutely no desire to buy a Wii U and unless something drastically changes or they don't really do something to bring out some amazingly good games it might be the first Nintendo console EVER that I don't own and that makes me want to cry.
The only genius thing I saw out of them at E3 was that the Wii Fit Trainer was a character in Smash Bros, that shit is genius "Yoga Punch".
I just don't understand what they're trying to do. Why release this powerful console and not make use of the power that they've allowed? It's why the Wii really died at the end of it's life-cycle, people have become accustomed to HD now and when the new Sony and Microsoft consoles hit it's going to be another Wii vs PS3 and 360 situation and people have already wisened on to the fact that Sony and Microsoft have a more pretty picture.
If people think that I'm shallow because I care about good graphics then so be it, but it's the truth, we have eyes for a reason and we all enjoy beautiful things. Gameplay > Graphics is such a bullshit term. Graphics and Gameplay are on an equal playing field IMO, they should compliment one another completely. But what can Nintendo do with their characters? I mean... it's not like they can model them in infinitely more detail... but at least give us some sort of different graphics style. Like, SOMETHING different at least... just SOMETHING. Wind Waker is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
I think Smash Bros U is just a big crappy slop pit. I would have loved all of the characters to have had a bit of a 'stylistic' re-design for the game so that they all look the same / similar for the game and then release the game as an amazingly top level looking Cel-Shaded game, it's something the Wii U could do and it's the perfect game for it because the combat is still 2D.
Or evolve different things about the games... SOMETHING... things are getting SO SO stale with Nintendo. I can't say I don't enjoy the characters, but they're not even really trying to innovate with NEW characters, or new franchises.
Put some real development into coming up with some real new characters that they can ad to their list. At this stage they should be really trying to expand their universe further and further every year, but instead it seems to be shrinking and even if you're not going to expand the universe, make games based off different characters from those universes.
Give Luigi an actual platform game that is a Luigi game (and no I'm not just meaning Luigi's Mansion which is still cool). Instead of releasing Mario 3d World, release Luigi 3D world or SOMETHING.
Nintendo pride themselves on being the 'kings of innovation' but the Wii U is completely failing because their is nothing but a complete lack of innovation in the software for the console. I personally have found no real point to having a screen on the controller, it's a nice idea in concept but it has really done nothing for the games, yes it makes the home console almost like a 'DS' and is 'useful' but it's not groundbreaking AT ALL.
I also think that Nintendo moved away from the 'Galaxy' style game for Mario because it sold diddeley squat compared to the NSMB series on the Wii which is just a sad series of events. Can't they see that the market that owned the Wii at that point was a totally different one to the types that are buying the Wii U right now?
All in all it feels to me like Nintendo needs some fresh young faces to be put up into some higher places to make some decisions for the company and really push some new direction on things. Development times need to be sped up drastically - I mean, how can it take so long to get all these damn games ready.
This is really my first kind of rant that I've made about the Wii U but it's so disappointing to me because Nintendo has always been my favorite developer but I have absolutely no desire to buy a Wii U and unless something drastically changes or they don't really do something to bring out some amazingly good games it might be the first Nintendo console EVER that I don't own and that makes me want to cry.
The only genius thing I saw out of them at E3 was that the Wii Fit Trainer was a character in Smash Bros, that shit is genius "Yoga Punch".
New Super Mario Bros U isn't a system seller, it's a long seller. It will sell to console owners for years to come
Super Mario 3D World is more likely to have an effect
Nope. They can have both but due to their 'least effort for maximum profit' mantra they adhere to just the basics which tends to mean lesser tech, slow eShop support, not really hoping after third parties etc. they rely almost solely on their main franchises and so long as people keep buying them(even when they are cash ins) they'll keep going what they do.
Shit, Look at them now. Completely failing with Wii U on all fronts and all we hear is 'Our first party will revive it' and 'we don't care what others do'. We have an anaemic eShop and shitty VC releases. No major third parties like GTA etc. Nintendo are by definition insane. They do the same thing over and over but expect different results.
I'm glad you don't run Nintendo and I'm sure most of the people who play their games would agree. Just because you didn't get to see MS/Sony kind of videos, games, Nintendo direct was horrible and they are slowly becoming the EA of Japan? Speak for yourself, Nintendo caters to a different type of gamers, and if you think you have out grown Nintendo, then buy one of the other alternatives. This warp reasoning has been going on here for years. Every gen, Nintendo is on the verge of going party, every gen you guys claim you are done with Nintendo. Now Nintendo is turning into the EA of Japan? That's a new one. Next year Nintendo will be turning into Namco
Man i can't wait to play all those Nintendo in house games i saw on direct, they were awesome and makes the imagination go wild. This company knows how to make fun games. If i want metal gear i will get X or PS4 and you should too