jeezy... I've actually been in this situation. got real drunk at a party, starting getting heavy with a girl, went to her room, we're both almost naked... she says "no, I don't want to". Was I a little pissed? Kinda. Did I keep pushing? No. Could I have coerced her in the state we were both in? Probably. But... I did not.This is fucking dumb. She drags him into her room, all kissing and touching.
He gets intimate. Tries to get her in the mood. "oh no! rape!!!". The girl showed no resistance. If someone tries to get in my pants without me wanting so, I will definitely not settle with protesting "I don't want to."
Does being affectionate always have to lead to sex for you?
Hahah, holy shit I hope that guy that got that role got paid tons for that to play a would-be rapist.OK, so hopefully most of GAF realises how disgusting, misogynistic and ridiculous the notion that rape victims are 'asking to be raped' due to their choice of clothing is. Having said that, I've seen a few people on here who don't seem to get it.
Well, here you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h95-IL3C-Z8&feature=youtu.be
30 seconds. The end.
I know it's an old video
Ummmm if she asks you to stop you just keep going? Unless you were expecting her to go all Chun-li while he's trying to go for her pants as to what constitutes "no".This is fucking dumb. She drags him into her room, all kissing and touching.
He gets intimate. Tries to get her in the mood. "oh no! rape!!!". The girl showed no resistance. If someone tries to get in my pants without me wanting so, I will definitely not settle with protesting "I don't want to."
Eh
"She's asking for it" is really just a poorly phrased way of saying "she's down". I say similar shit often, never implying rape of course. The bar scene didn't really help the message IMO.
This is fucking dumb. She drags him into her room, all kissing and touching.
He gets intimate. Tries to get her in the mood. "oh no! rape!!!". The girl showed no resistance. If someone tries to get in my pants without me wanting so, I will definitely not settle with protesting "I don't want to."
So, you see a girl wearing a short skirt, you immediately think she's available and willing to have sex with you? Is that what you're saying? Because that's what it sounds like.
Eh
"She's asking for it" is really just a poorly phrased way of saying "she's down". I say similar shit often, never implying rape of course. The bar scene didn't really help the message IMO.
I'm curious what GAF thinks of this set of scenarios:
#1: A woman is in her house with all doors locked. Someone breaks in and rapes her.
#2: A woman walks around naked in a prison full of rapists. Someone rapes her.
Obviously neither one was asking for it, but are the situations equal? Neither deserves to get raped, let's go ahead and get that out of the way. However, is there a point where personal responsibility comes into play? I'm not going to comment on the above scenarios, but there's a really bad neighborhood where I live. Noone goes out around there after 9PM. If I walked around in that neighborhood at midnight and got mugged, I would think it was partially my fault for not avoiding a situation that I knew was dangerous.
............I don't think that's what he's saying.
............I don't think that's what he's saying.
Eh
"She's asking for it" is really just a poorly phrased way of saying "she's down". I say similar shit often, never implying rape of course. The bar scene didn't really help the message IMO.
I'm curious what GAF thinks of this set of scenarios:
#1: A woman is in her house with all doors locked. Someone breaks in and rapes her.
#2: A woman walks around naked in a prison full of rapists. Someone rapes her.
Obviously neither one was asking for it, but are the situations equal? Neither deserves to get raped, let's go ahead and get that out of the way. However, is there a point where personal responsibility comes into play? I'm not going to comment on the above scenarios, but there's a really bad neighborhood where I live. Noone goes out around there after 9PM. If I walked around in that neighborhood at midnight and got mugged, I would think it was partially my fault for not avoiding a situation that I knew was dangerous.
what else does 'she's down' mean?
I'm curious what GAF thinks of this set of scenarios:
#1: A woman is in her house with all doors locked. Someone breaks in and rapes her.
#2: A woman walks around naked in a prison full of rapists. Someone rapes her.
Obviously neither one was asking for it, but are the situations equal? Neither deserves to get raped, let's go ahead and get that out of the way. However, is there a point where personal responsibility comes into play? I'm not going to comment on the above scenarios, but there's a really bad neighborhood where I live. Noone goes out around there after 9PM. If I walked around in that neighborhood at midnight and got mugged, I would think it was partially my fault for not avoiding a situation that I knew was dangerous.
Let me put this into perspective for you: Most women are raped by someone (usually a guy) they know. It tends to be someone they know very well. Your idea of what is "dangerous" is not the reality when it comes to rape, and if women were expected to keep away from such "dangerous" situations, the "safest" thing to do would be to not interact with any guys. Ever. Am I personally responsible for being raped because I decided to ignore how most rapes actually happen and decided to interact with guys?I'm curious what GAF thinks of this set of scenarios:
#1: A woman is in her house with all doors locked. Someone breaks in and rapes her.
#2: A woman walks around naked in a prison full of rapists. Someone rapes her.
Obviously neither one was asking for it, but are the situations equal? Neither deserves to get raped, let's go ahead and get that out of the way. However, is there a point where personal responsibility comes into play? I'm not going to comment on the above scenarios, but there's a really bad neighborhood where I live. Noone goes out around there after 9PM. If I walked around in that neighborhood at midnight and got mugged, I would think it was partially my fault for not avoiding a situation that I knew was dangerous.
The analogy doesn't hold and is dumb.Heres the point I THINK he's trying to make.
If you don't lock your car and don't have anti theft and someone steals your car, it's still the thiefs fault. But you don't want your car to get stolen so you do these things. It's a slippery slope to veils but it's not a black and white world we live in.
Heres the point I THINK he's trying to make.
If you don't lock your car and don't have anti theft and someone steals your car, it's still the thiefs fault. But you don't want your car to get stolen so you do these things. It's a slippery slope to veils but it's not a black and white world we live in.
So, you see a girl wearing a short skirt, you immediately think she's available and willing to have sex with you? Is that what you're saying? Because that's what it sounds like.
Heres the point I THINK he's trying to make.
If you don't lock your car and don't have anti theft and someone steals your car, it's still the thiefs fault. But you don't want your car to get stolen so you do these things. It's a slippery slope to veils but it's not a black and white world we live in.
The problem with that argument with regard to rape: Women get raped wearing all sorts of clothing. Women get raped at home, at work, at parties, at friends houses, at bars. Basically, if you start with 'well, women should do everything they can to prevent being raped!' you are telling them to lock themselves in their houses and never see anyone.
And even then, one of the first guy's scenarios is that somebody randomly breaks into the woman's home and rapes her. It's an impossible task.
Heres the point I THINK he's trying to make.
If you don't lock your car and don't have anti theft and someone steals your car, it's still the thiefs fault. But you don't want your car to get stolen so you do these things. It's a slippery slope to veils but it's not a black and white world we live in.
Yep. The only thing we can do to prevent rape is to not rape. Period.
I would also suggest anti-theft devices are passive, because you can't always be around for a car.We put in anti-theft devices because they're low-cost, don't affect the car's operations, and pragmatically they're better than dealing with the aftermath of having your car stolen. But they don't change the moral calculus at all; a person who steals a car with an anti-theft system has committed exactly the same offense as stealing a car without one.
jeezy... I've actually been in this situation. got real drunk at a party, starting getting heavy with a girl, went to her room, we're both almost naked... she says "no, I don't want to". Was I a little pissed? Kinda. Did I keep pushing? No. Could I have coerced her in the state we were both in? Probably. But... I did not.
edit: you'll probably be gone soon so w/e
Rape is like abortion. People get firmly defensive about their position as soon as they hear the topic. I'd rather not get banned for a controversial topic that I've just been thinking about.yeah this is better
what is this?
I'd like to encourage people to think about the issue, whichever way they choose.edit: smokemaxx no u; what have you done
Of course it's the rapist's fault. Who ever said it wasn't?Yeah, on the part of dudes to not rape. The end.
The way I was raised, even things that weren't my fault ended up being my fault. Perfection was key. Obviously perfection is impossible and obviously not everything is your fault. However, I'm also in a relationship with someone who (as one example) thinks it's hilarious to pretend to hit me and when she does she's like "it's not my fault! It was an accident!" The way I was raised, personal responsibility is key above all else. If I punch you, it's my fault. If I punched the person who killed my mom, well I guess it's still 100% my fault, but does that shift any responsibility to the murderer?Again with this shit.
Dude, are the rapists in the second scenario brainless dogs? No, they're humans, don't try to shift responsibility.
Of course someone will try to avoid dangerous situations in the interest of self preservation, but the responsibility does not shift one single inch from the assaulter.
Whether or not i'm lucky enough not to get mugged, doesn't change the fact that it's 100% on the mugger.
I'm not sure how everyone's missed this point. The rapist is 100% accountable for his or her actions. I have never denied that and I will never deny that. They should be held fully accountable under the law and punished appropriately. The point isn't to blame the victim, it's to encourage personal responsibility. This isn't specific to girls either. I'm a feminist. I have no problems with girls wearing skimpy clothes or flirting with every guy at the bar. I don't want people to always make decisions because they're afraid of being raped either. I just think that there are some decisions that should be common sense that could be made incorrectly if we discourage personal responsibility.Well, what does blaming the victim do? The fact is that there's someone out there committing a crime and doing something to hurt people. That's who we should be looking at. Rapists - and muggers - aren't forces of nature. They choose to do wrong, and so we should hold them accountable for it - not the people who they hurt.
See, this is the thing. That's not being a 'good person'. That's basically the minimum standard of decency I would expect from any human being. To not have sex with someone who doesn't want to. It's ridiculous how low our standards must be when 'not being a rapist' is seen as being 'a good person'.You're a good person, wish more people were like you.
What's everyone's thoughts on the getting over the top drunk and rape? It seems that the two often go together.
My thoughts... just because a girl is drunk doesn't make rape ok, but I have a harder time feeling sorry for the girl if she made stupid decisions because she was drunk and that got her in to a bad situation. I felt the same way when my best friend got piss-ass drunk at a bar and jumped in to a strange van going to a party. He got back to us a couple hours later and had got mugged, but it was hard to feel sorry for him because he made an dumb decision. There are bad people out there and girls especially need to be more careful when drinking.
Sometimes I wonder how much these anti-rape campaigns actually appeal to those who may rape someone else or at least would pop up in someone's head when they may be placed in a situation where such an act would cross their mind. I'd imagine there is research on this stuff but I'd be curious to see what they target. The ad in OP doesn't seem to be, I don't know, daring? enough to strike me as something that would reach someone at their core and prevent such a thing or make someone think twice about it. But then again, I'm not exactly sure of the exact demographic (which appears to be more casual rape than say a serial rapist).
What's everyone's thoughts on the getting over the top drunk and rape? It seems that the two often go together.
My thoughts... just because a girl is drunk doesn't make rape ok, but I have a harder time feeling sorry for the girl if she made stupid decisions because she was drunk and that got her in to a bad situation. I felt the same way when my best friend got piss-ass drunk at a bar and jumped in to a strange van going to a party. He got back to us a couple hours later and had got mugged, but it was hard to feel sorry for him because he made an dumb decision. There are bad people out there and girls especially need to be more careful when drinking.
Agreed. Both girls and guys should be careful. That was the point about my friend that got mugged. Still doesn't excuse the mugger or rapist, but people shouldn't make it easy for them.Girls shouldn't have to be any more careful than guys when drinking, though.
I'm curious what GAF thinks of this set of scenarios:
#1: A woman is in her house with all doors locked. Someone breaks in and rapes her.
#2: A woman walks around naked in a prison full of rapists. Someone rapes her.
It's not about stopping rape as much as it's about informing men about their rape culture and their shitty opinions.Sometimes I wonder how much these anti-rape campaigns actually appeal to those who may rape someone else or at least would pop up in someone's head when they may be placed in a situation where such an act would cross their mind. I'd imagine there is research on this stuff but I'd be curious to see what they target. The ad in OP doesn't seem to be, I don't know, daring? enough to strike me as something that would reach someone at their core and prevent such a thing or make someone think twice about it. But then again, I'm not exactly sure of the exact demographic (which appears to be more casual rape than say a serial rapist).
*backs far out and away of this thread knowing where it's going*
This is a good point.It's not about stopping rape as much as it's about informing men about their rape culture and their shitty opinions.
Rape is like abortion. People get firmly defensive about their position as soon as they hear the topic. I'd rather not get banned for a controversial topic that I've just been thinking about.
I'd like to encourage people to think about the issue, whichever way they choose.
I'm not sure how everyone's missed this point. The rapist is 100% accountable for his or her actions. I have never denied that and I will never deny that. They should be held fully accountable under the law and punished appropriately. The point isn't to blame the victim, it's to encourage personal responsibility. This isn't specific to girls either. I'm a feminist. I have no problems with girls wearing skimpy clothes or flirting with every guy at the bar. I don't want people to always make decisions because they're afraid of being raped either. I just think that there are some decisions that should be common sense that could be made incorrectly if we discourage personal responsibility.
Addendum: Rape is a huge problem. The points I bring up are more towards a hypothetical issue than a real one, because of course there are enough issues with getting victims to come forward without making them feel guilty about their attacks. Thus, in the "real world" there should never be any hint that the victim bears any responsibility for the attack. However, I think we should each explore, in hypothetical scenarios, how we each feel about the issue.
It's not about stopping rape as much as it's about informing men about their rape culture and their shitty opinions.
I wouldn't pin this on just men. There are women who believe in rape culture too.It's not about stopping rape as much as it's about informing men about their rape culture and their shitty opinions.
That's also very true.I wouldn't pin this on just men. There are women who believe in rape culture too.
What a horrible ad. People who actually believe that won't be able to have their minds changed by a commercial.
Pretty sure I've said it here before but there are some words to describe people who believe women are asking to be raped: criminals, psychopaths, and sociopaths.
...Really? No that's not what I'm saying at all.So what you're saying is, she's asking for it.
I agree.No one should take responsibility for being a woman or a man. Sexual assault is illegal and is always the fault of the rapist.
More or less.Heres the point I THINK he's trying to make.
If you don't lock your car and don't have anti theft and someone steals your car, it's still the thiefs fault. But you don't want your car to get stolen so you do these things. It's a slippery slope to veils but it's not a black and white world we live in.
That's not the point. It doesn't matter if the specific example matches. The point is this- is there any grey area when it comes to personal responsibility in this type of situation or is it all 100% black and white? Is it always 0%? If someone runs in front of a train and gets killed, then are they 0% responsible? Now, I already know the counter-argument "but the train is incapable of stopping" or something like that. Take the original scenario #2 and have the woman walk into a prison full of rapists that each have absolutely zero impulse control (i.e. they are incapable of controlling their actions) due to brain damage (and yes these people ARE out there). I don't see how that's different that running in front of a train.Let me put this into perspective for you: Most women are raped by someone (usually a guy) they know. It tends to be someone they know very well. Your idea of what is "dangerous" is not the reality when it comes to rape, and if women were expected to keep away from such "dangerous" situations, the "safest" thing to do would be to not interact with any guys. Ever. Am I personally responsible for being raped because I decided to ignore how most rapes actually happen and decided to interact with guys?
Strawman. This was never about 100% prevention of rape. That's not even possible. This is about avoiding objectively bad situations, not fearing for your life because the power goes out.The problem with that argument with regard to rape: Women get raped wearing all sorts of clothing. Women get raped at home, at work, at parties, at friends houses, at bars. Basically, if you start with 'well, women should do everything they can to prevent being raped!' you are telling them to lock themselves in their houses and never see anyone.
Agreed.We put in anti-theft devices because they're low-cost, don't affect the car's operations, and pragmatically they're better than dealing with the aftermath of having your car stolen. But they don't change the moral calculus at all; a person who steals a car with an anti-theft system has committed exactly the same offense as stealing a car without one.
That's another scenario I was thinking about. Most people in this thread will say that it's 0% the fault of the drunk person. Not saying they're right or wrong but I hope that they sincerely thought about their point.What's everyone's thoughts on the getting over the top drunk and rape? It seems that the two often go together.
My thoughts... just because a girl is drunk doesn't make rape ok, but I have a harder time feeling sorry for the girl if she made stupid decisions because she was drunk and that got her in to a bad situation. I felt the same way when my best friend got piss-ass drunk at a bar and jumped in to a strange van going to a party. He got back to us a couple hours later and had got mugged, but it was hard to feel sorry for him because he made an dumb decision. There are bad people out there and girls especially need to be more careful when drinking.
What's everyone's thoughts on the getting over the top drunk and rape? It seems that the two often go together.
My thoughts... just because a girl is drunk doesn't make rape ok, but I have a harder time feeling sorry for the girl if she made stupid decisions because she was drunk and that got her in to a bad situation. I felt the same way when my best friend got piss-ass drunk at a bar and jumped in to a strange van going to a party. He got back to us a couple hours later and had got mugged, but it was hard to feel sorry for him because he made an dumb decision. There are bad people out there and girls especially need to be more careful when drinking.