MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Last time I checked my desktop gaming PC didn't run on 8gb of GDDR5.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PS4 is quite the engineering marvel
- Thread starter Canis lupus
- Start date
The value from PS+ is a matter of opinion. I don't really play any of the games I get on PS3 PS+ because.. if I wanted to play a game, I'd likely have bought it well before it goes on PS+.
I use it essentially just for Vita and getting digital versions of games I already own, mostly.
The fact that it will probably...? Consoles have a record of being way louder than they have any right to be. It's easier to market the size of a box than the sound of it, and with the failure rate mega fiasco of last gen, I don't think they will be cutting any corners this time around.
Cizeta-Moroder
Banned
But laptops do have batteries, screens, keyboards, speakers, cameras... and much more limited vent areas.
MickeyKnox
Member
Seems to me like that's putting the cart before the horse, what with the product of said engineering not available for us to ascertain its quality.
dragonelite
Member
Last time i checked a gaming PC doesn't need 8gb of gddr5 to produce better looking games then what next gen console showed this E3?
IHaveCandy
Banned
You show me a $400 laptop, and I'll show you a laptop that is designed to break in 3 years.
SneakyStephan
Banned
What value ad, an undetermined grab bag of games that you might or might not want and that will get added 6 months to a year after release (by then say a steam sale has said games up for 5-10 euros)
That is assuming the current model of including games in the ps+ sub continues, which so far it won't since driveclub will not be the full version (missing the tracks and cars, so a big demo at worst, gt5 prologue at best)
Then you take into account that you pay 20+ euros more per game on the ps4 and it really doesn't go into favor of ps4 anymore price wise, I didn't even want to go there because you have to make a lot of assumptions of ps+ games continuing to be added as they are now and then it still doesn't look favorable.
I just like to look at the overall picture with value, as 20 years of console gaming have painfully thought me how fast it all ads up, I spent so much more on my ps3 than on my pc this gen that it's disgusting, and I didn't get much of a library for it (paltry compared to my steam list and non steam games), and that is WITHOUT paywall.
I've said this in another thread : the consoles are no longer subsidized hardware wise, the value isn't there anymore to make up for the higher game prices, especially not with online fees ticking up at a rate of 60 euros/year (or 300 euros since I bought my ps3 so far if online play had been behind an arbitrary fee on it)
On topic: people shouldn't mock the xbox for being big either, as long as it's silent (which I doubt it will be, watch MS cheap out and put shitty ring bearings in the fans that after 2 years sound like dragging a carpet over a gravel road) the box fullfills its function.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
IS pretty impressive, absolutly not a single cm wasted.
First post fail. Thanks for ruining it. And we had such a nice run of first posts.
First post fail. Thanks for ruining it. And we had such a nice run of first posts.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I don't think that's the best argument given how unreliable consoles generally are
I think consoles have a history of long lifespans, outside of a few exceptions.
This is a hardware thread. IF you're going to randomly throw in the entire cost of PS+ when talking about how much it costs, you might as well mention the fact that you get a ton of games from it too. I've had it for only a year, and I have 40+ games from it (not counting Vita). Imagine that for the entire gen.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Console lifespan went downhill when they added optical drives. No chance of the lifespans of old until they lose optical drives.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Game installs will mean less wear on the optical drive.
SneakyStephan
Banned
See there you might have had a point to back up OP (if you were talking about gaming laptops not 400 euro overpriced netbooks, laptop prices are a scam, always have been)
Gaming laptops get hot and they don't live long.
Thankfully the ps4 box is much thicker than a laptop shell so it should plenty of room for cooling.
ps+ is no longer optional it's mandatory of course you have to add it in to the cost now...
Also 40 games? I 've had ps+ for a year too and I don't have 40 games, or are you counting ps minis?
Not to mention some of these games are shovelware... crap like lord of the rings that we got last month isn't worth the time it takes out of your life.
As I said, it's yet to be determined if you still get as many full games (at launch you get nothing, just the driveclub trial edition) ,and if there are any you actually want to play.
And as I said if you had read it all, even if you take those into account and assume it's shit you actually want to play and not shovelware or games that have been on a steam sale for 5 euros 6 months ago, you're still paying out the ass for the games you buy yourself (60 dollar console premium)
ps3 and pc owner here, I experienced first hand how frigging expensive console gaming was this gen, seeing it get another 60 euros more expensive a year (because fuck me for buying playstation since 1996, here's another arbitrary fee for you Stephan, bend over we're going in dry) while no longer getting subsidised hardware does not sound like a good deal to me at all.
PC gaming is anything but cheap hardware wise btw, we are getting absolutely fleeced due to a lack of competition in hardware land (duopolies in cpu, gpu AND hdd land), but despite all that it's still a better deal.
Well, that's assuming an optical drive is the only way games are delivered. That's not the case any more; With a DD setup, you get to worry about when Microsoft and Sony will shut down the online infrastructure for the PS3 and 360.
That said, next-gen disc installs should increase optical drive longevity a bit.
BradleyLove
Member
What a shock to see the same names shitting on next gen consoles... again.
la flama blanca
Banned
Are we really having PC vs PS4 discussions in here? Lord.
doublenagger
Banned
And the ps4 won't release before a good long time
Meanwhile, DDR4 and GDDR6 are coming soon
Oppo
Member
I blame the people who are really upset about other people being impressed.
plutoknight
Member
I'm eagerly awaiting the call from my parents, "HOW DO I FIX THE BLINKING 12:00 ON MY PS4!?!?!?"
doublenagger
Banned
more like people comparing apple and oranges and saying oranges are superior to apples
I tried...and failed, lol
$454.90
I was at $405 before the blu-ray drive.
This was in a mATX/ITX case that was 1 inch shallower, but 3 inches wider than the PS4 stats given. So..slightly bigger...but I still failed price wise. Granted, price doesn't matter to me on my gaming PC, but I suppose I can echo your statement after trying.
We always need post like that, so thank you !
Ps yes, the PS4 have a pretty impressive size and looks very beautiful.
funkystudent
Member
Its pretty small and seems to have some crazy things going on. I want to get one this year but I am a little hesitant on buying one just because of potential hardware failures. Sony are normally good at this but I got burned on a 60 gig ps3 and I guess it wouldn't hurt to wait a few months just in case right?
I never buy launch hardware. It's better to wait a year, avoid potential hardware disasters and adopt the console when it has a better library.
Odious Tea
Member
Can you post that build?
RibbedHero
Member
While the size isn't all that impressive the cooling certainly is.
We'll have to wait and see if it's quiet and runs well, but given that it only has cooling in the back it would be quite impressive if it stays cool and quiet.
We'll have to wait and see if it's quiet and runs well, but given that it only has cooling in the back it would be quite impressive if it stays cool and quiet.
Really? The only manufacturer (that is still around) I can say that of, based off experience is Nintendo.
20 GB still working here!
Time to backup when I get home before starting Last of Us
Moral Panic
Member
Indeed. And all the people saying "you couldn't build a better pc" make me laugh, as if that has anything to do with engineering.
If theres anything extraordinary about the PS4's physical engineering, your going to have to point it out to me.
Just like PS4!
I'm a PC gamer too, but I damn love consoles.
Probably "pure" PC gamers sometimes have behavior problems and need to show how much bigger is their.... PC.
Seriously, I used to read some PC games forum and in the end they also hate each other because there are Nvidia fanboy, Amd fanboy, Intel fanboy, etc etc
It's pretty sad, just leave them alone, it's the better choice.
blitzcloud
Banned
how did you exactly get 8gb of gddr5?
notjackbauer
Member
PS4 is only 2 inches high? Good lord.
but they do need developers that make Uncharted.
JonathanPower
Member
If you are just talking about the hardware itself, there's nothing on the market that can currently compete with the perfomance/watt ratio of a jaguar-based APU like the one in the PS4.
http://beta.fool.com/peterpham8/2013/03/03/amd-pounces-intel-jaguar/25663/
So, yeah, I think this is kinda impressive, considering that Intel or Nvidia can't provide a better solution.
la flama blanca
Banned
I'm more of a PC gamer with a ridiculous rig and 1400 hours on dota 2 alone, but what most PC elitists try ignore are the vast number of exclusives that we won't be able to play on the PS4 this time around. And since we are talking about hardware, yes, the PS4 is absolutely an engineering marvel, fuck outta here if you think otherwise.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
fatgamecat
Member
End of life PS4 games will probably look as good as GPUs that cost $300 today. You can't beat that kind of value with a PC. Not to mention all the great exclusive games.
Mark Cerny explains some the PS4 architecture and design choices. They're trying to actually solve problems, not slap some laptop parts together.
"One thing we could have done is drop it down to 128-bit bus, which would drop the bandwidth to 88 gigabytes per second, and then have eDRAM on chip (what Microsoft is doing -Ed) to bring the performance back up again," said Cerny. While that solution initially looked appealing to the team due to its ease of manufacturability, it was abandoned thanks to the complexity it would add for developers. "We did not want to create some kind of puzzle that the development community would have to solve in order to create their games. And so we stayed true to the philosophy of unified memory."
"I think you can appreciate how large our commitment to having a developer friendly architecture is in light of the fact that we could have made hardware with as much as a terabyte of bandwidth to a small internal RAM, and still did not adopt that strategy," said Cerny. "I think that really shows our thinking the most clearly of anything."
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php
"One thing we could have done is drop it down to 128-bit bus, which would drop the bandwidth to 88 gigabytes per second, and then have eDRAM on chip (what Microsoft is doing -Ed) to bring the performance back up again," said Cerny. While that solution initially looked appealing to the team due to its ease of manufacturability, it was abandoned thanks to the complexity it would add for developers. "We did not want to create some kind of puzzle that the development community would have to solve in order to create their games. And so we stayed true to the philosophy of unified memory."
"I think you can appreciate how large our commitment to having a developer friendly architecture is in light of the fact that we could have made hardware with as much as a terabyte of bandwidth to a small internal RAM, and still did not adopt that strategy," said Cerny. "I think that really shows our thinking the most clearly of anything."
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php
YouEnjoyMySelf
Banned
I would love that display on the front of my PS4. Retro chic!
I'm also primarily a PC gamer and have yet to see games that look as good as PS4 titles. Still creaming over the "Dark Sorcerer" video.
Great example of a PC gamer who has no idea what they are talking about. So glad I'm not this closed-minded. PC master race = lame.
I'm also primarily a PC gamer and have yet to see games that look as good as PS4 titles. Still creaming over the "Dark Sorcerer" video.
Great example of a PC gamer who has no idea what they are talking about. So glad I'm not this closed-minded. PC master race = lame.
This was said about the PS3 too, and as an owner of one... it's likely going to be itsfuckingnothing.gif
IHaveCandy
Banned
I've never had a Sony system die on me.
outunderthestars
Banned
Whatever, I can build a PC the size of a altoids tin for $13 that can play Battlefield 4 at 4K and 240 FPS! You console kiddies are all dumb and stuff.
Am I doing it right?