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[SolidSnakex]

I see some clinging to their discs with much more fervor than you are thinking of; we will see.

That was my point. If consumers want to go digital only then they're going to do it whether it's forced onto them or not. But there are still plenty of consumers that have no interest in doing that. That may be the consumer that's a collector and prefers to have a physical copy of their game. It may also be the consumer that relies on being able to trade in their purchases to buy another game. You won't be able to force those consumers into buying digital.

 

[Venin]

You need to give a list there sir...because I'm not seeing it.

I already tried asking and was met with borderline hostility.

 

[Sky Chief]

I see some clinging to their discs with much more fervor than you are thinking of; we will see.

If that's true then why would they EVER buy and Xbox One!?

 

[border]

It's like MS is living in 2006, and people are bending backwards to rewrite history for MS

No kidding. I still can't believe the original article tries to make a ridiculous claim like "Nobody asked for iPhone". Really? My recollection is that for years people were utterly dying to merge their phones with their media players.

It also falls into the common trend of trying to compare every esoteric, overpriced, bloated piece of tech to an Apple product, in hope of making its chances for success seem better. See also: "People pay $500 for an iPad -- they'll gladly pay $250 for a Vita!". Microsoft is not Apple - is if the Zune, Windows Phone, and Surface platforms didn't already prove it.

 

[Drek]

It's not about a consumer being able to choose going all digital, it's about 100 percent of the games on the console being stored digitally and tied to an account. Microsoft is taking the risk of forcing the issue, but (and this is the point) in the long run, Sony may be taking a risk by not forcing it.

What risk? Where is the down side for Sony giving choice where gamers can go all digital, all physical, or a mixture of both at their discretion?

For it to be a risk there has to be a potentially negative ramification. Explain that before you bandy about the claim that Sony may be taking a risk.

All I see is Sony beating MS to day 1 digital on PS3, Sony beating MS (and Nintendo) to universal day 1 digital on Vita, and now Sony saying that is going to be the model going forward for PS4. Thanks to PS+ Sony has actually stress tested in the wild what hundreds of thousands of people trying to download the same 7+ GB game file does to their network too by the way.

Microsoft will have perfect knowledge of every one of its customers: it will know everything they own, what they spent on it, what they're likely to buy in the future. And since they know that person will be constantly connected to the internet they can put special deals in front of them, etc. The potential to make much more money off of each individual user.

So non-optional marketing bullshit? Great. Why didn't you just say "but MS will have non-optional marketing bullshit! That's huge!" from the start so we could all laugh at the suggestion that non-optional marketing bullshit once you own their console will somehow help sell people their console.

But first they have to learn those habits, which means you have to choose to opt in to being online.

Because consumer choice is a horrible thing for the future of an industry, right? Obviously taking choice away is the future.

Also possible, since developers can now make online-only games without having to worry about segmenting the market or dealing with customer service of people buying a game and not knowing what to do with it. So that's a different piece of it.

Wrong. The market is still segmented, it's just segmented at the hardware level instead of the software level. No matter where the cut off is you lose all of the consumer market who aren't online. Now you also lose all the market who don't want to have DRM mandated to them on every game, but who might have tolerated DRM on specific software (like people have with MMOs for years). Unless you think always online systems will somehow boast a miraculously higher tie ratio per hardware unit than all their non-online required brethren this doesn't make any sense.

 

[flyingmonkeywhoa]

The comment section of that article is as nonsensical as the article itself

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

I already tried asking and was met with borderline hostility.

So maybe he's as confused as we are about the "really interesting" games Microsoft had to show that Sony could not / did not.

Other than Forza and Titanfall...I'm a bit lost on exclusives for the Xbone.

Oh wait...that "Sunset Strip" game. xD


Interesting is certainly one way to describe it...

 

[140.85]

It's a false choice to suggest that unless you follow Microsoft's lead here that you aren't going "all digital". He also fails to present a good argument that Sony is going to have a difficult time transitioning to an all-digital model if need be.

 

[Marleyman]

That was my point. If consumers want to go digital only then they're going to do it whether it's forced onto them or not. But there are still plenty of consumers that have no interest in doing that. That may be the consumer that's a collector and prefers to have a physical copy of their game. It may also be the consumer that relies on being able to trade in their purchases to buy another game. You won't be able to force those consumers into buying digital.

I understand what you are saying. I think MS is doing what they are doing for reasons to actually help the consumer in the long run, they just need to find a way to do this to make sure consumers who don't fit a certain profile aren't getting screwed over in the process.

 

[Salz01]

It's starting to IRK me more and more when people try to validate or justify Microsofts decision to dictate on how we the consumers own the games we buy. You know PS4 does allow the digital download on games. They have that in their system architecture, and plan to improve on it. But they don't dictate how or what we do with our physical copy.

Anybody remember Divx?

From Wikipedia...

"Each DIVX disc was marked with a unique barcode in the Burst cutting area that could be read by the player, and used to track the discs. The status of the discs were monitored through an account over a phone line. DIVX player owners had to set up an account with DIVX to which additional viewing fees could be charged. The player would call an account server over the phone line to charge for viewing fees similar to the way DirecTV and Dish Network satellite systems handle pay-per-view.... Privacy advocates were concerned that the players "dial-home" ability could be used to spy on people's watching habits."

Divx bombed hard....you know what they say about those that don't learn from history....

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

It's starting to IRK me more and more

Fixed.


URK is something that you say when you get hit in the gut with a crowbar.

/spellingdouche

 

[Ploid 3.0]

.

 

[UrbanRats]

You really think it is going to happen naturally?

Yes, as it should be.

I understand what you are saying. I think MS is doing what they are doing for reasons to actually help the consumer in the long run, they just need to find a way to do this to make sure consumers who don't fit a certain profile aren't getting screwed over in the process.

That process is called PS4, or PC, or WiiU or any device that lets you choose whether you want to be all digital or not.

 

[Salz01]

Fixed.


URK is something that you say when you get hit in the gut with a crowbar.

/spellingdouche

Lol I'll fix it. Maybe I meant that I get hit with a crowbar.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Console gaming is a pretty strictly homebound experience.

Today, yes. In a few years' time? That access-it-anywhere feature might be huge.

Look, I understand how "playing the long game" can sound like a convenient cover-up for a product that flops, but 1) Xbone has not even shipped 2) shit is going CRAZY in this industry and the way people play games is changing dramatically.

E3 was a meaningful event to be sure, but what happened there did not set in stone the next 5 years of the gaming industry.

 

[Venin]

So maybe he's as confused as we are about the "really interesting" games Microsoft had to show that Sony could not / did not.

Other than Forza and Titanfall...I'm a bit lost on exclusives for the Xbone.

Oh wait...that "Sunset Strip" game. xD


Interesting is certainly one way to describe it...

Sunset Overdrive? I have to admit, my nipples got hard when I saw the trailer. Dat shotgun. Probably not something I'd ever play, but for a little while it did have a Mirror's Edge vibe to it.

 

[Marleyman]

Yes, as it should be.



That process is called PS4, or PC, or WiiU or any device that lets you choose whether you want to be all digital or not.

If by implementing this, in the right way, they can lower gaming costs and have a long term goal of being just like Steam wouldn't more people be into it?

 

[captscience]

Microsoft will have perfect knowledge of every one of its customers: it will know everything they own, what they spent on it, what they're likely to buy in the future. And since they know that person will be constantly connected to the internet they can put special deals in front of them, etc. The potential to make much more money off of each individual user.

How does this negatively impact Sony or benefit in a way that Sony can't? Sony will be able to market to everyone that's online with their PS4 in the same manner. If the consumer isn't connected regularly, it isn't really a lost opportunity since that owner doesn't have an XBox One anyway.

 

[Woo-Fu]

If Microsoft is playing a long game by the time they're in a position to win nobody will remember what they were playing for in the first place.

Living room convergence used to be the CE holy grail but that is fading due to a number of reasons.

They're aiming so far behind the moving target it isn't even funny.

 

[Raist]

The companies that have fared the best in the technology world understand the maxim that your customers cannot articulate to you everything they want. Yes, you should listen to the people who use your products (and you should listen just as closely to the ones who do not), but you cannot simply ask people what they want you to make, then make it; that’s how you end up with The Homer. Nobody asked for iPhone. Even after that, nobody asked for iPad. And nobody-but-nobody ever asked for a Nintendo DS.

... so what's the argument here? That people didn't ask for stuff that turned out to be a massive commercial success? Therefore, so many people being vocal about no DRM being a good thing means the PS4 will fail?

I mean no one asked for a virtual boy or a zune or a PSPgo either.

 

[Beowulf28]

Why can't digital and physical coexist? Right now you can go Kanye's new album via iTunes or go buy the physical CD. Why does gaming HAVE to move to an all-digital future?

 

[Sky Chief]

Today, yes. In a few years' time? That access-it-anywhere feature might be huge.

Look, I understand how "playing the long game" can sound like a convenient cover-up for a product that flops, but 1) Xbone has not even shipped 2) shit is going CRAZY in this industry and the way people play games is changing dramatically.

E3 was a meaningful event to be sure, but what happened there did not set in stone the next 5 years of the gaming industry.

And this is another area that Sony is way ahead of MS on with Vita, crossbuy, remote access, Gaikai, etc...

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

Lol I'll fix it. Maybe I meant that I get hit with a crowbar.

With the way Microsoft has been behaving...it's entirely possible.

xD

Sunset Overdrive? I have to admit, my nipples got hard when I saw the trailer. Dat shotgun. Probably not something I'd ever play, but for a little while it did have a Mirror's Edge vibe to it.

You know...it looked pretty enough but the whole time I was watching the trailer, I was thinking...what hole does this fill? I think the only way Sunset Overdrive is going to matter is if it's a launch game. Is it a launch game?

 

[Marleyman]

Why can't digital and physical coexist? Right now you can go Kanye's new album via iTunes or go buy the physical CD. Why does gaming HAVE to move to an all-digital future?

Because potentially costs of video games can be lowered. I think that is worth it but it would need to happen for an all-digital situation to be worth it.

 

[Shosai]

No kidding. I still can't believe the original article tries to make a ridiculous claim like "Nobody asked for iPhone". Really? My recollection is that for years people were utterly dying to merge their phones with their media players.

I think you've misread the meaning of that statement. People were asking and anticipating an "iPhone" product long before it was announced, in the sense that they wanted an Apple-branded cell phone. The features that the iPhone introduced and eventually made industry standard weren't ones that consumers explicitly asked for (closed app market, touch interface, walled-garden OS). These 'features' were derided by most tech enthusiasts- and still are in many circles. But the larger market eventually came around. Jobs had an ability to deliver things consumers wanted but never explicitly asked for.

Microsoft is taking the same gamble with Windows 8 and the Xbox One. Whether that works out for them is up in the air.

And this is another area that Sony is way ahead of MS on with Vita, crossbuy, remote access, Gaikai, etc...

I think you've got a different definition of "anywhere".

 

[KrazyDude]

Why is it whenever I hear a company say "we are playing the long game". It translates in my head to "We totally fucked this up at the beginning"

Sonys PS3 and Vita 10 Years Plan?

 

[KrazyDude]

And this is another area that Sony is way ahead of MS on with Vita, crossbuy, remote access, Gaikai, etc...

Window 8 Smartphones and PC and Surface offer the same arguably better all Access.

 

[Warm Machine]

This is not necessarily a problem with PSN, this is a problem because you don't use your PS3 often. I'm not saying you have a problem because you don't use it often, but as someone who uses their PS3 regularly the updates are not an issue.

Also if you wanted to make it easier, you could have simply pre-purchased the game via the web store (which is great btw) and after purchase go into your downloads under account management. I believe you can actually do remote downloads now from the web store, I just haven't tried that yet.

It is a problem with PSN though. Update or not, services integration is paramount to running a digital front and back end.

You don't have the 360 needing an update so that you can buy something and when you want to buy something you don't have to launch another app to do so. It is a seamless process going from the front of the dash into the marketplace and buying something.

Updates are not really the problem per say. When the 360 gets an update all of the core services are updated along with it so there is consistency down the line. Next time round I expect something like Xbox Movies and Music will be wrapped in that core so they are not outside the dash and are able to seamlessly function like the rest of the dash.

I certainly hope the PS4 dash can move from core services like account management, friends, game library, sharing, and marketplace without a disruption in the chain. Anything that helps people get to new game visibility and instant purchase is better for everyone. Updates to individual apps will happen but core services shouldn't be treated individually.

 

[Venin]

You know...it looked pretty enough but the whole time I was watching the trailer, I was thinking...what hole does this fill? I think the only way Sunset Overdrive is going to matter is if it's a launch game. Is it a launch game?

Hm, no idea. Doesn't seem to have an official date yet.

 

[FranXico]

Because potentially costs of video games can be lowered. I think that is worth it but it would need to happen for an all-digital situation to be worth it.

You can't be serious. Competitive pricing does not need to be restricted to digital-only or physical-only.

 

[Marleyman]

Another thing I have been thinking of; I don't believe it is far fetched to believe that Sony backed out at the last second, no matter what they say. If they did this it will be very interesting going forward seeing the support they get in comparison to MS. Will MS get better deals, games because of it? It is all so damn interesting..

 

[SMZC]

Sony, in tying the ownership of games to discs rather than accounts, is giving players more freedom but is delaying its own ability to go all-digital.

This is stupid. Sony isn't delaying anything. They are letting things evolve at their own pace, without forcing shit down their consumers' throats. This guy is clearly not taking into account that you can go all-digital with PS4 just as easily as with an Xbone, and that Microsoft's always-online retarded bullshit has no advantages whatsoever to the consumer; it's only a disgusting, greedy ass way for a corporation to take some money that they are not entitled to and to control everything that their users do. Whoever doesn't see this is just kidding himself.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If by implementing this, in the right way, they can lower gaming costs and have a long term goal of being just like Steam wouldn't more people be into it?

They aren't going to do that as long as they keep a close relationship with retail. Steam works the way it does because PC developers no longer rely on retail. They may still release their games to retail, but they've moved on to digital sales. Like I said earlier, MS has already said that they're setting up a way to have used games through certain retailers. We know they have meetings with Gamestop (just as Sony does) and they also create Gamestop specific retail DLC so that they get marketing from them. They're too close to retail to make any serious moves with pricing the way we see on Steam.

 

[Rolf NB]

Microsoft will have perfect knowledge of every one of its customers: it will know everything they own, what they spent on it, what they're likely to buy in the future. And since they know that person will be constantly connected to the internet they can put special deals in front of them, etc. The potential to make much more money off of each individual user.

I still don't see it.

Sony can collect the same data, trophy list be my witness, even if all you ever play are discs. Data collection has nothing to do with discs versus downloads.

It's actually data propagation that you're presenting now: get the collected data off the console, onto the servers. And the difference here is solely Microsoft's forced online connection, lest all your games stop working, versus Sony's offering of incentives for going online but still keeping it a personal choice.

Sony's incentives for players to go online are a)appealing to personal vanity with trophies, and b)PS+ value; just like it is on PS3 now. Something new every week waiting for you. So the "check-in" intervals are longer and they are not enforced by the system. OTOH I posit that you'll see all the hungriest gamers self-selecting and going onto PS+ sooner or later, and that's the group you'll also want to reach first when it comes to promotion.

 

[border]

Today, yes. In a few years' time? That access-it-anywhere feature might be huge.

What devices are people going to use to access games anywhere? Their cell phone? Some kind of handheld system with roughly as much power as an Xbox One? Everywhere-access is important for music and movies because people own multiple devices capable of playing back that media. People will probably own no more than one device capable of playing Xbox One or PS4 games.

The "playing the long game" comment sounds like a cover-up, mostly because the future you are imagining is incredibly vague and indefinite.

 

[Sky Chief]

I think you've got a different definition of "anywhere".

Huh? If I purchase a crossbuy game I can play it anywhere. If I buy a PS Mobile game I can play it anywhere. I can play Gaikai or RemotePlay anywhere I have an internet connection.

Are you seriously suggesting that MS is going to release a portable Xbox One and all your games will be available on it instantly?

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Microsoft will have perfect knowledge of every one of its customers: it will know everything they own, what they spent on it, what they're likely to buy in the future. And since they know that person will be constantly connected to the internet they can put special deals in front of them, etc. The potential to make much more money off of each individual user.

This data mining stuff is something I would like to do without. It's bad enough that some of these online id services don't have a "appear offline" feature. Thank goodness steam have it now. Diablo 3 was a pain to play because people always knew when I was online and would invite themself to my game. Blocking them just made them question why I had that option active, being invisible would make me frigging invisible.

These days people can tell what games you play, for how long, and how often you get trophies, what your birthsign is, the purpose of your tattoo, how often you argue with your mate, and so on just because you agree to add them to your friend list. Again Steam added options to deny details to be viewable by your friends, but I'm sure it's viewed by valve, yet I get no special deals from them. I don't expect Microsoft to give out special deals based on what you do, talk about, drink, and eat, they will just place ads based on that stuff.

 

[Marleyman]

You can't be serious. Competitive pricing does not need to be restricted to digital-only or physical-only.

If it makes games cheaper, why not?

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

You're not going to hit a homer by making something that people ask for.

You're not going to hit the ball by making something that is what people are asking you not to make.

 

[remnant]

You don't think they are taking a leap first when it comes to this model of a console? How aren't they?

Not really. We've seen bad DRM before. Putting it on a console isn't that...trailblazing i guess.

This argument that MS policies are okay because they are pioneers is bizaare. They aren't. Digital releases were first on PS3. Game sharing was first on PS3. Pretty much everything but the 24 hr drm and kinect was first on the PS3 so what are they pushing? How are they "playing the long game." When they are behind right now?

Sonys PS3 and Vita 10 Years Plan?

Well yeah. They had fucked up their launches didn't they?

 

[prag16]

Sony won because Microsoft went crazy and Sony helped everyone laugh at them.

Yeah. When things like "$399" and "you can play used games, and play offline" are megatons worthy of "winning" E3 almost on that strength alone, we have to take a step back think about where we're at...

 

[FranXico]

If it makes games cheaper, why not?

What I see daily is that competition makes games cheaper, not the distribution channel.

Physical PC disc games prices come out at slightly lower prices, and reach budget price way faster nowadays, just like digital downloads.

The only reason Steam has frequent sales is competition from GOG and GMG. In turn, retailers drop prices more proactively as well.

The only way pricing will stay competitive is if the market does not stagnate/converge to a cartel.

Going digital only would very quickly lead into a cartel/monopoly centered around games distribution (yes, far more easily than retail).

 

[Qwell]

Today, yes. In a few years' time? That access-it-anywhere feature might be huge.

Look, I understand how "playing the long game" can sound like a convenient cover-up for a product that flops, but 1) Xbone has not even shipped 2) shit is going CRAZY in this industry and the way people play games is changing dramatically.

E3 was a meaningful event to be sure, but what happened there did not set in stone the next 5 years of the gaming industry.

How is the way people are playing changing so dramatically? And I mean specifically console / pc gamers. I know for me the big difference is I don't really game with groups of friends anymore. I do play online, but I also hardly ever play online with friends. The big issue everyones time has become so limited. For me I still kind of game the way I always have, I have a gaming area, it has my gaming PC, and my consoles. Most of my friends are the same way, we don't move to different locations of the house to game. None of my friends really play mobile / facebook games, or the ones we do don't last. And I still feel like they don't really compete with big console gaming. They compete with our time, but that is really it, and X1 won't really be doing anything better in that regard, especially since I can still play those mobile games even without a connection. But I'm not trying to play Forza 5 while I'm waiting for a movie to start in a theater, I'm playing plants vs zombies on an ipod touch (digital purchase without internet connection)

I think the big limitation of big console gaming is still the console, and that is one thing that PC gaming has always had as a leg up on consoles. I can play my pc games on a multitude of PC's out there, I can play on my laptop, I can play on my friends PC, or my 2nd PC in my wife's room.

Even the new consoles are still tied to that one single box. Yes with Microsofts system I can play on someone elses X1, but that is still just a single big box that I can play on. And ultimately I can still do the same thing with my PS3 / PS4 either with a retail disc, or with my account and digital purchases. I already do that with PS3 and Vita, and if I wanted to I could load my account on a friends PS3 and play my digital games.

If gaming is becoming more ubiquitous I would think Microsoft would be investing in the game developers and not necessarily hardware. Like perhaps work on solidifying a standard that other hardware manufactures could build for. Just like a Blu-ray player. I think that is something this industry could really use, and something that I think would truly help gaming in general. I can buy a blu-ray and play it on any player and the same thing with my digital purchases. I can play my Ultraviolet movies on my roku, PS3, tablet, or directly on my smart TV. And yes I know that is more difficult because of the power required to play next gen games, but those are breakthroughs I could get behind.

 

[WinFonda]

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

Sony is leading the thirsty horse to a nice little stream of clear fresh water.

Microsoft is dragging the dead corpse of a horse to some shit dump swamp water to drown it.

Sony is not risking their digital plans by having lax disc DRM. Article dumb.

 

[Pranay]

What I see daily is that competition makes games cheaper, not the distribution channel.

Physical PC disc games prices come out at slightly lower prices, and reach budget price way faster nowadays, just like digital downloads.

The only reason Steam has frequent sales is competition from GOG and GMG. In turn, retailers drop prices more proactively as well.

The only way pricing will stay competitive is if the market does not stagnate/converge to a cartel.

Going digital only would very quickly lead into a cartel/monopoly centered around games distribution (yes, far more easily than retail).

no

 

[Marleyman]

What I see daily is that competition makes games cheaper, not the distribution channel.

Agreed about competition; for Steam in particular, you don't pay any of the licensing fees right? If MS does this they can lower the cost of the title theoretically. If it didn't help the consumer at all there would be a huge backlash. Much bigger than what we are seeing now.

The only reason Steam has frequent sales is competition from GOG and GMG. In turn, retailers drop prices more proactively as well.

I don't agree.

 

[graywolf323]

The only reason Steam has frequent sales is competition from GOG and GMG. In turn, retailers drop prices more proactively as well.

Steam was having big sales before either of those places existed...

 

[ReBurn]

I just had someone come up to me at work and go on and on about the Xbox being the future the PS4 being designed for the past thanks to this Wired article.

yipee the PR push is working.

so stupid.

Do you work in a middle school by any chance?

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Another thing I have been thinking of; I don't believe it is far fetched to believe that Sony backed out at the last second, no matter what they say. If they did this it will be very interesting going forward seeing the support they get in comparison to MS. Will MS get better deals, games because of it? It is all so damn interesting..

Keep that hope alive man. Though publishers didn't seem all that thrilled about MS' plan when asked, some explained why. Of the big 3 (activision, EA, Ubi) only one seemed kinda interested. We can guess that they would be more interested if all console manufacturers disallowed physical game trading, required online, and possibly make purchased games undownloadable after years so they can resell them to the customer again on another platform/network. We only have what's on record though. They are along for the ride, not steering the ships. Customers have choices and are closer to steering things than the publishers, and that is what's going on here.

The only reason Steam has frequent sales is competition from GOG and GMG.

Amazon has insane deals, I think Amazon deals are crazier than Steam. It seems that there is always a deal going on at Amazon. Tony is gone from gaf but the deals keep pouring. <3 choices.

 

[RibMan]

Buy games, pop them in, sell them when you’re done.

A simple and familiar way to experience video games will always be preferred to a complicated and confusing way to experience video games.

The market is currently reacting in a way that indicates the aforementioned preference for simplicity and familiarity.