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[Revven]

I hate region lock and I hope this campaign can succeed, but I think we should demand a real account system first.

I think region locking is a simpler matter for Nintendo to easily address and is also a means to test the waters. Test the waters in the sense that see what kind of reaction we get out of Nintendo, if anything.

If we get nothing for something as simple to change as region locking, then we sure as hell know trying to get them to get an account system won't work either (which is something that requires more work than disabling region lock).

 

[PhantomR]

It may be effective to tweet Bill Trinen (@trintran) and JC Rodrigo (@JCDotface). Can someone confirm these Twitter accounts?

Dude, leave them alone. They have nothing to do with this. Operation Rainfall didn't go after individual Nintendo employees, and neither should you. Stick to the official Nintendo Twitter, Facebook, Miiverse, Consumer Service, etc.

 

[Terra_Ex]

Uh, Operation Rainfall? Maybe

I am inclined to agree since my Jp WiiU is a glorified karaoke machine with 0 (yes 0) games. I mean there are no games that I want anyway, but you never know eventually I may want to stop by at a gamestop and buy a game (once there are some that I want) and not have to worry about region locking.


So I did my part.

I think PAL gamers would stand to gain the most from region free overall, due to insane waiting times between some US and EU releases and some titles not getting released at all. Then again, PAL-land missed out on a fuckload of great rpgs during the ps1/ps2 era that were released in the states and nobody did anything, while semi-recently the US potentially missed out on 3 wii rpgs and kicked off a massive campaign (op rainfall) about it. Seems to me these movements get far more traction if they're negatively impacting the american market in some way.

 

[jay]

Dude, leave them alone. They have nothing to do with this. Operation Rainfall didn't go after individual Nintendo employees, and neither should you. Stick to the official Nintendo Twitter, Facebook, Miiverse, Consumer Service, etc.

How do high profile Nintendo employees have nothing to do with Nintendo policy? If they get the word they may share the word.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

I think region locking is a simpler matter for Nintendo to easily address and is also a means to test the waters. Test the waters in the sense that see what kind of reaction we get out of Nintendo, if anything.

If we get nothing for something as simple to change as region locking, then we sure as hell know trying to get them to get an account system won't work either (which is something that requires more work than disabling region lock).

Disabling region lock might be simpler for Nintendo to actually do, but what exactly are the business decisions behind it?

It might be easier to get Nintendo to reconsider their reasons behind not having an account system than it would be to convince them to reverse their decisions regarding region locking. This is all conjecture, of course.

 

[sakipon]

I think PAL gamers would stand to gain the most from region free overall, due to insane waiting times between some US and EU releases and some titles not getting released at all. Then again, PAL-land missed out on a fuckload of great rpgs during the ps1/ps2 era that were released in the states and nobody did anything, while semi-recently the US potentially missed out on 3 wii rpgs and kicked off a massive campaign (op rainfall) about it. Seems to me these movements get far more traction if they're negatively impacting the american market in some way.

I don't know, PAL gamers recently had the 50Hz thing. Social networks and online communities were nowhere as developed in the PS2 era.

 

[PhantomR]

How do high profile Nintendo employees have nothing to do with Nintendo policy? If they get the word they may share the word.

Are these two Nintendo executives? No.

Do they have any say on region locking policies? No.

Do they have any say in any potential licensing agreements that accompany this? No.

Do they have any say in retail relations and contacts that could be affectd by this? No.

Do they have any say in back end processes that would need to be overhauled and the cost associated with doing that as a result of this? No.


Again , I don't remember Operation Rainfall targeting individual Nintendo employees to achieve what they wanted. They aggressively went through the proper channels, and now we have three awesome games as a result. Stay classy.

 

[ozfunghi]

Disabling region lock might be simpler for Nintendo to actually do, but what exactly are the business decisions behind it?

It might be easier to get Nintendo to reconsider their reasons behind not having an account system than it would be to convince them to reverse their decisions regarding region locking. This is all conjecture, of course.

The thing is, with the way things are currently going, courting gamers and potential buyers won't hurt them in the least. In fact, being region free is in many cases, enough to keep people from modding/hacking their console. The less people do that, the less people will take part in the so called "home-brew" community, less word of mouth, hence less people using it for piracy.

What's the downside? They "might" lose some money on people importing games instead of buying them for their own region. How often is this a problem? Only the most avid gamers will import games, a small percentage of your userbase, and only a fraction of their total library. I would think building on their positive image and keeping more people from piracy, would be more than enough to make up for lost income on imported games.

Also, if we ever wanted to push for them changing their region-locked policy, now would be the time. Microsoft just made a much larger sacrifice towards its fanbase, and Nintendo should be more open to giving in due to their current problems and not lose face.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

Are these two Nintendo executives? No.

Do they have any say on region locking policies? No.

Do they have any say in any potential licensing agreements that accompany this? No.

Do they have any say in retail relations and contacts that could be affectd by this? No.

Do they have any say in back end processes that would need to be overhauled and the cost associated with doing that as a result of this? No.


Again , I don't remember Operation Rainfall targeting individual Nintendo employees to achieve what they wanted. They aggressively went through the proper channels, and now we have three awesome games as a result. Stay classy.

It was merely a suggestion. I was also reluctant to potentially annoy these good people, but the Microsoft DRM movement targeted specific people and got responses from those people. It also raises awareness.

The thing is, with the way things are currently going, courting gamers and potential buyers won't hurt them in the least. In fact, being region free is in many cases, enough to keep people from modding/hacking their console. The less people do that, the less people will take part in the so called "home-brew" community, less word of mouth, hence less people using it for piracy.

What's the downside? They "might" lose some money on people importing games instead of buying them for their own region. How often is this a problem? Only the most avid gamers will import games, a small percentage of your userbase, and only a fraction of their total library. I would think building on their positive image and keeping more people from piracy, would be more than enough to make up for lost income on imported games.

Also, if we ever wanted to push for them changing their region-locked policy, now would be the time. Microsoft just made a much larger sacrifice towards its fanbase, and Nintendo should be more open to giving in due to their current problems and not lose face.

I agree with everything you said, but I was only suggesting we find a way to petition against locking content to hardware in addition to region locking. Nintendo could gain more digital downloads if people feel more secure with their purchases.

 

[Cheesemeister]

Peer Schneider from IGN just RT'd this thread! Awesome.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Peer Schneider from IGN just RT'd this thread! Awesome.

Good work.

 

[Revven]

Peer Schneider from IGN just RT'd this thread! Awesome.

Don't stop now! Gotta get moar coverage.

 

[jay]

Are these two Nintendo executives? No.

Do they have any say on region locking policies? No.

Do they have any say in any potential licensing agreements that accompany this? No.

Do they have any say in retail relations and contacts that could be affectd by this? No.

Do they have any say in back end processes that would need to be overhauled and the cost associated with doing that as a result of this? No.


Again , I don't remember Operation Rainfall targeting individual Nintendo employees to achieve what they wanted. They aggressively went through the proper channels, and now we have three awesome games as a result. Stay classy.

We have no idea if Operation Rainfall even did anything, and as Silent Ocarina points out, the MS DRM protests did target specific people. Not that that was likely to matter, either. I am sorry if you are upset that the people who buy Ninteno's products and keep their employees employed have the gall to use direct communication.

 

[Keyouta]

Great job guys! I'm continuing to post on miiverse, twitter, and facebook to get the word out. If we keep on pushing we can make this a reality! Region locking benefits no one and doesn't have a place in our globalized society.

 

[Effect]

As much as I try I can't bring myself to care about this. The lack of third party games and Nintendo not doing everything they can to increase the system's install base are far more important and pressing matters. Those are what people should be harassing Nintendo about.

 

[lucablight]

I've done my part and sent an email to Nintendo and tweeted at the various channels. Microsoft and Sony have proven there is absolutely no need for this archaic practice. All it does it punish consumers by letting companies price gouge and forcing gamers into lengthy waiting times for their favourite titles (or in some cases not getting them at all).

 

[jay]

As much as I try I can't bring myself to care about this. The lack of third party games and Nintendo not doing everything they can to increase the system's install base are far more important and pressing matters. Those are what people should be harassing Nintendo about.

The difference is third party support is not entirely Nintendo's doing and cannot change overnight. Depending on how the tech for region locking works, this issue is the opposite - entirely Nintendo dependent and can change immediately if they so desire.

Well, this is also about the 3DS...

And future systems.

 

[Jucksalbe]

As much as I try I can't bring myself to care about this. The lack of third party games and Nintendo not doing everything they can to increase the system's install base are far more important and pressing matters. Those are what people should be harassing Nintendo about.

Well, this is also about the 3DS...

 

[InsaneZero]

As much as I try I can't bring myself to care about this. The lack of third party games and Nintendo not doing everything they can to increase the system's install base are far more important and pressing matters. Those are what people should be harassing Nintendo about.

Those are issues that Nintendo are very aware are actual issues. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the methods that they're using to resolve those issues, they have actually addressed it as such.

Region-locking, on the other hand, is an issue that Nintendo has not addressed, and such deserves more attention.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

I'd wait until the 3DS gets its account system and NNIDs and see if Nintendo makes the change to unlink the accounts from the hardware. If not, then we should start a campaign.

 

[Cheesemeister]

All of you guys are awesome! Keep it up!

 

[Keyouta]

As much as I try I can't bring myself to care about this. The lack of third party games and Nintendo not doing everything they can to increase the system's install base are far more important and pressing matters. Those are what people should be harassing Nintendo about.

The 3DS is region locked as well dude!

 

[Meelow]

Peer Schneider from IGN just RT'd this thread! Awesome.

Hoping he posts an article about this!

As much as I try I can't bring myself to care about this. The lack of third party games and Nintendo not doing everything they can to increase the system's install base are far more important and pressing matters. Those are what people should be harassing Nintendo about.

Getting third party support is harder, since Nintendo can't control that and go to third parties and be like "Yeah, your developing for our system no matter how you feel about it, we expect amazing support!"

It takes time to fix that mess Nintendo has with third parties.

This is something Nintendo can easily change.

If Nintendo did region locking properly this time instead of half-assed like they did with the Wii... it may be incredibly hard to "release" the region locking on Wii U and 3DS.


For the Wii, the encryption key for games were all the same (except Korea, which only got the system after it started being hacked, and thus the code was changed). Encryption keys for games are stored in read only (and encrypted themselves) so they may not be simply editable. Region coding worked on the wii via a single byte on a disc that signified PAL/JPN/USA, something easily patched in memory (or modified on the disc itself if you only had an early modchip).

If the drive itself checks the discs, and the drive itself isn't updatable via firmware (if they were smart, it isn't for security reasons) then absolutely nothing Nintendo can do aside from releasing new Wii U's under a "region free" label. Old models won't be able to be updated. Even if the drive itself isn't checking the games, it would still take a significant rewrite of how games are handled.

In that case, the system would be throwing out "bad disc" and a second check would have to be run to verify the disc... If the header information for the games is encrypted (absolutely no clue if it is, I haven't investigated at all, but I'm sure the wiiUbrew website has the answer there), it'll likely have to go through a white listing process before being decrypted. If the header is unencrypted, it should be real easy to tell what region a game is for, no lists required.


God I'm far too tired to be writing something like this, probably riddled with errors <_< Anyways, my entire point was this isn't likely as simple as flipping a switch and boom region free. The console was designed from the ground up for it.

TLDR: Even if Nintendo does cave and go region free, there is the very real possibility that you'd have to rebuy the system or hope that Nintendo offered some sort of discounted exchange program.

Like what the other gaffers said, it should be pretty easy to remove this with a system update.

 

[KojiKnight]

If Nintendo did region locking properly this time instead of half-assed like they did with the Wii... it may be incredibly hard to "release" the region locking on Wii U and 3DS.


For the Wii, the encryption key for games were all the same (except Korea, which only got the system after it started being hacked, and thus the code was changed). Encryption keys for games are stored in read only (and encrypted themselves) so they may not be simply editable. Region coding worked on the wii via a single byte on a disc that signified PAL/JPN/USA, something easily patched in memory (or modified on the disc itself if you only had an early modchip).

If the drive itself checks the discs, and the drive itself isn't updatable via firmware (if they were smart, it isn't for security reasons) then absolutely nothing Nintendo can do aside from releasing new Wii U's under a "region free" label. Old models won't be able to be updated. Even if the drive itself isn't checking the games, it would still take a significant rewrite of how games are handled.

In that case, the system would be throwing out "bad disc" and a second check would have to be run to verify the disc... If the header information for the games is encrypted (absolutely no clue if it is, I haven't investigated at all, but I'm sure the wiiUbrew website has the answer there), it'll likely have to go through a white listing process before being decrypted. If the header is unencrypted, it should be real easy to tell what region a game is for, no lists required.


God I'm far too tired to be writing something like this, probably riddled with errors <_< Anyways, my entire point was this isn't likely as simple as flipping a switch and boom region free. The console was designed from the ground up for it.

TLDR: Even if Nintendo does cave and go region free, there is the very real possibility that you'd have to rebuy the system or hope that Nintendo offered some sort of discounted exchange program.

 

[jay]

I'd wait until the 3DS gets its account system and NNIDs and see if Nintendo makes the change to unlink the accounts from the hardware. If not, then we should start a campaign.

I see fixing their account system as something that they will do in order to continue moving forward. It is a step on a path forward. Region locking, on the other hand, is regressive and should have died a long time ago. It's not a step forward to unlock systems, it is undoing an anti-consumer practice that should no longer exist.

TLDR: Even if Nintendo does cave and go region free, there is the very real possibility that you'd have to rebuy the system or hope that Nintendo offered some sort of discounted exchange program.

These won't be Nintendo's last systems. Even if we have to mod these to import games, we could win a victory next round.

 

[InsaneZero]

TLDR: Even if Nintendo does cave and go region free, there is the very real possibility that you'd have to rebuy the system or hope that Nintendo offered some sort of discounted exchange program.

Personally, I don't expect retroactive changes since that might affect security of existing systems, but instead I want the policy going forward to be region-free (or at least leave it up to the publisher rather than a strict enforcement).

 

[Jaded Alyx]

I see fixing their account system as something that they will do in order to continue moving forward. It is a step on a path forward. Region locking, on the other hand, is regressive and should have died a long time ago. It's not a step forward to unlock systems, it is undoing an anti-consumer practice that should no longer exist.


.

Exactly, which is why we should concentrate on fighting the region lock first and foremost.

 

[jay]

Exactly, which is why we should concentrate on fighting the region lock first and foremost.

Ha, I misread your post and managed to argue with you on something we agree on. Sorry about that.

 

[Cheesemeister]

Please sign this petition!

Following Microsoft's U-turn on its DRM policies, including making the Xbox One region-free alongside the PS4, Nintendo is now left as the only major console manufacturer that maintains a region-locking policy. This practice is restrictive to customers, including those who enjoy playing foreign games not available domestically, speak foreign languages, serve in the military, or otherwise travel or live abroad. If anything, region-free policies encourage the additional sales of legitimate software that cannot otherwise be obtained in a given country; the money would still go to Nintendo, the developers and the distributors behind each game.

Nintendo has been amazing in its attempts to shorten the gap in release dates between different territories (e.g. the worldwide launch of Pokémon X and Y this October) and we are truly grateful for that, but we don't want region-free consoles just so we can purchase and play some games earlier than usual. We want region-free consoles so that we may exercise our consumer rights to choose what games we play and to thus expand our horizons.

We ask that Nintendo please release system firmware updates that will remove region-locking from the Nintendo 3DS, Wii U, and Wii systems.

Please sign this petition, tweet to @Nintendo, @NintendoAmerica, @NintendoEurope, @NintendoUK, @NintendoES, and @NintendoFrance with the hashtags #EndRegionLocking and #NintendoRegionFree. Post on their Facebook pages and post in Miiverse! Make your concerns known!

 

[Ushae]

What what? I had no clue Nintendo were region locked, holy shit. Of all the companies I expected Nintendo to go the most consumer friendly route.

 

[Meelow]

Please sign this petition!

Signed, I will also post this on my Twitter.

What what? I had no clue Nintendo were region locked, holy shit. Of all the companies I expected Nintendo to go the most consumer friendly route.

Nintendo region locked their consoles since the NES, that's why we have to break that.

 

[TheMink]

Godspeed on your quest

 

[Sendou]

From a financial point of view what is the point of region locking a platform? I never understood this.

 

[Meelow]

Link is too long for Miiverse, only if it was a shorter link.

I posted on Twitter though!

 

[danielcw]

Also address the publishers, people.

Anyways, my entire point was this isn't likely as simple as flipping a switch and boom region free. The console was designed from the ground up for it.

Last time I looked I couldn't find anything about it on wiiUbrew.

But there is no good reason to believe, that Nintendo handled it differently than 3DS or Wii.
Why should they?

 

[Cheesemeister]

Link is too long for Miiverse, only if it was a shorter link.

I posted on Twitter though!

http://tinyurl.com/otq7xax

 

[soulx]

Would have preferred a petition for an actual account system instead of this. Even so, still Yeah'd the Miiverse posts and tweeted Ninty.

 

[Meelow]

http://tinyurl.com/otq7xax

Thanks!

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAABAADzUV58TvvnWg

Also here's that tweet.

https://twitter.com/Meelow100/status/347774434364489728

 

[SatoAilDarko]

http://tinyurl.com/otq7xax

I never feel comfortable signing these petitions because I don't like giving my address. I know its paranoid. I'll just stick to Miiverse and Facebook for support.

 

[KojiKnight]

Don't misunderstand, I'm all for Nintendo changing their policies and I'm for it, I just don't want anyone getting too excited about Nintendo changing things for the Wii U or 3DS (again, unless they decide to release an updated "region free" model, which is possibly feasible when Nintendo inevitably redesigns both systems again)

 

[mgcastro]

Please sign this petition!

Signed. Let's see where this ends.

 

[DaBoss]

Don't misunderstand, I'm all for Nintendo changing their policies and I'm for it, I just don't want anyone getting too excited about Nintendo changing things for the Wii U or 3DS (again, unless they decide to release an updated "region free" model, which is possibly feasible when Nintendo inevitably redesigns both systems again)

You're assuming the region-lock is hardware-based. I doubt that is the case. Region-lock would primarily be something implemented into the firmware.

 

[gemoran4]

Let's convince Nintendo to release more games.

how can they?? they are running out of mario characters to feature in their games. What do you want them to do, make a new character? hah, what nonsense!

 

[Meelow]

Some of the comments in my new Miiverse post...It's like a war between ourselfs.

 

[ExitPlanetDust]

Please sign this petition!

Thanks for the link!

Signed.

 

[Jucksalbe]

http://tinyurl.com/otq7xax

Wonderful, added the link to my Miiverse posts.

 

[bigmit3737]

Wish you guys the best of luck.
This is the one thing holding me back from buying a 3ds at the moment.

 

[Jocchan]

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAABAAAYUKk9VNOMmg

 

[Deleted member 125677]

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAABAADMUKlXzt2K8Q

Let's do this!

 

[jay]

Some of the comments in my new Miiverse post...It's like a war between ourselfs.

One downside of mostly dedicated fans owning Wii U's right now is that dedicated fans are often hard to reason with.