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F'DUPTON 3: Back in the Tub with 5.0/5.5/6/7/several Inches of RAM-Flavoured Water

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N

naw

Member
RetroStu said:
After months of constant "teh shitbox is crap, 3gig of teh ram for the os lol!!!" style posts, its funny seeing the problem kind of dissapear in this thread now PS4 is in a similar situation.
This gif says it best -

ibjwrxAIltXDux.gif
Click to expand...
lol yup

Now everyone wants to say stupid shit like

"4.5gb is still a lot of memory"

"the ps3 only had 256mb"

heh.png


Sony fanboys are funny people.
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
i don't get why people think the ram to OS will be used so you can watch netflix in a bar on the side of the screen

i mean, things like play as you download, video capture, streaming, etc all use ram. i think. i'm not an expert like everyone else here
 
R

Raymo

Member
Sony statement:

We would like to clear up a misunderstanding regarding our "direct" and "flexible" memory systems. The article states that "flexible" memory is borrowed from the OS, and must be returned when requested - that's not actually the case.

The actual true distinction is that:

"Direct Memory" is memory allocated under the traditional video game model, so the game controls all aspects of its allocation
"Flexible Memory" is memory managed by the PS4 OS on the game's behalf, and allows games to use some very nice FreeBSD virtual memory functionality. However this memory is 100 per cent the game's memory, and is never used by the OS, and as it is the game's memory it should be easy for every developer to use it.

We have no comment to make on the amount of memory reserved by the system or what it is used for.
Click to expand...
 
P

Pound_lb003

Member
CambriaRising said:
Sony never alluded to a 1gb OS, and insiders have said the current OS is about 1.5gb right now. The only reason for any if this is to leave room for improvement. Presumably this console cycle will last 7 years, look at how far we have come from 2005 and take a step back. No one could have predicted how advanced multimedia has become.

It's a contingency, and if nothing come from it there is nothing lost because ram can be "released" to devs down the line. The entirety of the faux outrage here is really stupid.
Click to expand...

And this contingency nonsense, although undoubtedly true, is such a stupid thing.

Scared of repeating the PS3 again is fine, but if your OS offers feature parity from the beginning, don't leave room for unnecesary bloating.

Why will the OS need RAM more than games in 7 years time?

It's just so frustrating that in terms of the system's horsepower, it's so evenly balanced between the platform's service and the content. Weren't they shouting that content is king from the hilltops?
 
W

Whiteshirt

Member
jordan0386 said:
C'mon. What am I doing wrong.

If you dont understand how it goes, you'll go with what the provider tells you. Sony said we got 8GB in at the last minute. We got you guys!

Its really only 4.5GB until what, 2015?

Its always been 4.5GB and NDA's have prevented anyone from saying anything. The entire internet looks like a dickhead.

We were told closer to 8 when it never really was.
Click to expand...

You never got 8GB of RAM if you're going to think like that, sorry to tell you. After your efforts if the cloud thread, you should try to understand tech before getting angry over nothing.

Pound_lb003 said:
And this contingency nonsense, although undoubtedly true, is such a stupid thing.

Scared of repeating the PS3 again is fine, but if your OS offers feature parity from the beginning, don't leave room for unnecesary bloating.

Why will the OS need RAM more than games in 7 years time?

It's just so frustrating that in terms of the system's horsepower, it's so evenly balanced between the platform's service and the content. Weren't they shouting that content is king from the hilltops?
Click to expand...

OS may need more RAM in the future when the figure out of a special case for it. Technology moves fast in 7 years and consoles can't add or remove parts like a PC.
 
A

anexanhume

Member
DigitalDevilSummoner said:
PS4 was supposed to be the "Game mode" console.
Click to expand...
WII U has a game mode. It has even a BC mode you have to restart into. But guess what, it still has a paltry library, worse specs and feels current gen.

A console with fast app switching and game suspension is going to feel next gen.

If Sony can do everything MS can on the OS side, they don't have to cede market share for better online functionality. If they can maximize their market share, they have more people to bring games to and thus more games.

It would be great if Sony could convince themselves they could match features in less space, but they're scared and planning for a contingency. It's that same mindset that gave us 399, so good with the bad.
 
R

RdN

Member
It seems pretty clear to me that all this is just a matter of Sony trying to avoid another Party-Chat debocle. Especially now that they are charging for online play, they can't afford to not be able to implement a very important feature .
 
Dr. Kitty Muffins

Dr. Kitty Muffins

Member
It isn't hard to predict that later on , once these OS's are fully explained, that we will have OS wars between fanboys on these boards. They will argue over features, OS size and the size of the OS development teams & money allotted to OS development. In fact, to a small extent, you can already see it happening.
 
LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
9thwonder said:
Why does sony need that much reserved if ps4 isn't even a decent multimedia device?
Click to expand...

You really believe it's a decent multimedia device? It's as able as Xbone minus the TVTVTV. What do you think PS3/360 were? Capable multimedia devices. My SLI/3930k gaming rig? A capable multimedia machine.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
One thing I'd like to point out pertaining my views on ram amount (and why I feel so bitchy) from the other thread:

i-Lo said:
One thing to note I am fully cognizant that more RAM does not mean "better graphics!" per se. So I was not expecting visual differences between 5 v 7GB. However, more RAM could have been used various underlying aspects, like mitigation of load times even further or (given the GPU can draw up to 1.6B poly/sec) more importantly, a more persistent world with all the relevant positional data of everything can be cached on to the RAM w/o having to rely on HDD for streaming on demand or caching tons of pre-calculated bits of information instead of procedurally generating it (faking dynamic deformation for example) that stresses the GPU, etc.

While these things are certainly possible now, higher limit means more leeway.
Click to expand...

NotLiquid said:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory
Looks like Sony issued a statement.
Click to expand...

So essentially, 5GB for games.
 
D

dynamitejim

Member
BigDug13 said:
They still built their hardware to spec from a developer wish list. Not from an internal "what multimedia specs do we need for a console to do a bit of everything" wish list.

If they stuck with 4GB total GDDR5 RAM and reserved 1 GB for the OS, would you still say they didn't design this thing to be primarily a game machine?
Click to expand...

So developers jumped for joy getting an extra 1GB of RAM, but they wouldn't like to have another 1.5-2GB? And this isn't really what developers are "happy" with. I'm sure developers were happy with 512MB when the Xbox 360 launched, but that quickly became a limitation. Having so much RAM in these next gen consoles was supposed to be about staying far ahead of the game so they don't get bottle necked like they did last gen.

My main point was really what this says about Sony's continued sloppy OS development.
 
J

jordan0386

Member
Whiteshirt said:
You never got 8GB of RAM if you're going to think like that, sorry to tell you. After your efforts if the cloud thread, you should try to understand tech before getting angry over nothing.
Click to expand...

No efforts. I have no problem playing devils advocate for some situations. I will have access to both consoles consistently next gen.
 
LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Naw said:
lol yup

Now everyone wants to say stupid shit like

"4.5gb is still a lot of memory"

"the ps3 only had 256mb"

heh.png


Sony fanboys are funny people.
Click to expand...

Can you please point these people out instead of passive aggressively posting about it. I want to laugh at those who read this much into Xbones memory allocations as well.

Don't use blanket statements to cover something like a fanbase and assume they're all delusional..
 
L

Loofy

Member
Guys I think I know whats taking up all the ram.

Playstation Home will be playing in the background at all times.
T3WAcoC.jpg


Believe.
 
T

Templar_Dante

Banned
Did some of you copy/paste your replies from B3D? Its definitley the kind of staple of negative Sony shit they thrive on there. Im going to laugh when this is due to them not being able to get dev kits with more than 8GB of ram out. Oh, I shall laugh!

SSM25 said:
The OFFICIAL sony statement is being ignored.. Official

Why not discuss that ?
Click to expand...

Wheres it at?
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
Naw said:
lol yup

Now everyone wants to say stupid shit like

"4.5gb is still a lot of memory"

"the ps3 only had 256mb"

heh.png


Sony fanboys are funny people.
Click to expand...

Isn't GDDR5's advantages what ever really mattered? It's still superior in performance to X1? I have both on pre-order but I always thought that was the real argument being made between the two console specs...
 
Harlock

Harlock

Member
If Sony going to take half of memory to OS be sure to do a hell of save state. Pause e go back between games without loading is the only OS feature good enough to justify the RAM sack.
 
Vestal

Vestal

Gold Member
KOHIPEET said:
My bad. With telling that I use win7, I just wanted to say that not even a fully fledged OS under load, takes up as much ram. I know win7 is a well optimized OS, but it also has a shitload more functions too.
Click to expand...
ok now I understand your reasoning and totally agree, however you are not taking into account memory used on the gpu since starting with vista the OS started using DirectX for display.
 
M

Mad Bowser

Banned
Sony's Statement:

We would like to clear up a misunderstanding regarding our "direct" and "flexible" memory systems. The article states that "flexible" memory is borrowed from the OS, and must be returned when requested - that's not actually the case.

The actual true distinction is that:

"Direct Memory" is memory allocated under the traditional video game model, so the game controls all aspects of its allocation
"Flexible Memory" is memory managed by the PS4 OS on the game's behalf, and allows games to use some very nice FreeBSD virtual memory functionality. However this memory is 100 per cent the game's memory, and is never used by the OS, and as it is the game's memory it should be easy for every developer to use it.
Click to expand...
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
I have absolutely no idea what this means for games and potential features. I suspect the vast majority in this thread don't.

I do know what I've seen, though! Assuming Sony haven't been misleading the devs all this time, we've all seen gameplay videos and real-time trailers - that's what matters, isn't it? The proof is in the games we've seen. They can do at least that.
 
K

KefkaPalazzo

Member
godelsmetric said:
I don't think Jonathan Blow's comments should be taken as anything other than a thinly veiled attack on Microsoft for the way that they treated him when he worked on their platform. He presumably knew at the time that The Witness' RAM footprint would have to come down, he just wanted to have a stab at MS.

Basically the videogame equivalent of 'my new boyfriend's dick is bigger than yours' to an ex.
Click to expand...

Blow was obviously talking crap when he made those tweets and this is just confirmation. Dude needs to chill.
 
S

Spongebob

Banned
So according to Sony clarification then it would be 5GB for games right?

Incredibly dissapointing (yes I'm aware that this # will fall).
 
C

CouldBeWorse

Member
velociraptor said:
Eh. I haven't stated I've cancelled my PS4 preorder or any other hyperbolic statement. What I said rings true.

The RAM situation is worse than I imagined. How bad must Sony's OS be for it to demand so many gigabytes of RAM? The Xbox has 5GB available for gaming. The PS4 has 4.5GB, and the latter is a so-called gaming machine.
Click to expand...

Who actually believed that? Neither the 360 nor the PS3 have been strictly "gaming" machines for the last few years, and it's been made clear that both will become even better as all-in-one boxes next gen. And that's not a bad thing.

Now they just need to be DVR cable boxes and I can get rid of my shitty DVR.
 
A

AyaisMUsikWhore

Member
jordan0386 said:
C'mon. What am I doing wrong. If you dont understand how it goes, you'll go with what the provider tells you. Sony said we got 8GB in at the last minute. We got you guys!

Its really only 4.5GB until what, 2015? Its always been 4.5GB and NDA's have prevented anyone from saying anything. The entire internet looks like a dickhead.

We were told closer to 8 when it never really was.

Edit: How do you go from Gamer's machine, no fluff. To, well we gotta allocate resources for non gaming functions to keep up with Xbox. If GAF can mock MS for PR double talk. Sony should face the same sting.
Click to expand...


First of all, give me the source of that saying? Oh wait.. There is none because SONY NEVER GAVE AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT! Like come to earth with me for a second please. How can you assume something that Sony themselves, as a company, has never confirmed? If DF says something about it, does that make it true? No, because they never got an official statement from Sony. What about EG? Same story different output yet no official word... So when you add that all together, you get a rumor that has yet to be confirmed or denied by Sony. Sony never did any PR double talk because they never said anything. MS on the other hand does say something, agree with the claim then backpedal a day or two later because different employees don't have none of the same information.


BTW, Sony finally released and official statement. Read it and read it again and again to make sure you got it clearly.
 
F

farisr

Member
Kurdel said:
If they needed to debunk anything, they would have.
Click to expand...

No. It is very likely that even they haven't come up with the final numbers. Which is why they SPECIFICALLY said they are only clearing up how the flexible/direct memory system works. (They probably have had an absolute minimum in place though for developers right now to work with, which is why 4.5GB keeps popping up probably). Not saying that these aren't gonna be the final numbers, but it seems they would've come outright to state that the numbers are correct if they indeed were in place.
 
N

NoirVisage

Banned
jordan0386 said:
C'mon. What am I doing wrong. If you dont understand how it goes, you'll go with what the provider tells you. Sony said we got 8GB in at the last minute. We got you guys!

Its really only 4.5GB until what, 2015? Its always been 4.5GB and NDA's have prevented anyone from saying anything. The entire internet looks like a dickhead.

We were told closer to 8 when it never really was.

Edit: How do you go from Gamer's machine, no fluff. To, well we gotta allocate resources for non gaming functions to keep up with Xbox. If GAF can mock MS for PR double talk. Sony should face the same sting.
Click to expand...
You should take his advice, your bitterness comes off as false, no one told you anything, we know what both consoles total was, how t was allocated was never stated, and most likely won't be for a while.
 
V

velociraptor

Junior Member
CouldBeWorse said:
Who actually believed that? Neither the 360 nor the PS3 have been strictly "gaming" machines for the last few years, and it's been made clear that both will become even better as all-in-one boxes next gen. And that's not a bad thing.

Now they just need to be DVR cable boxes and I can get rid of my shitty DVR.
Click to expand...
I'm not the one who has consistently touted that the PS4 is a console designed for gamers, first and foremost. That's Sony. From the get go we were all aware of Microsoft's emphasis on building an all-in-one multimedia box.

The only reason why I would even consider purchasing these consoles is to play games. That's it.
 
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