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[balohna]

What if...

Now, bear with me, this may blow your mind a little bit...

What if Nintendo is either orchestrating, or at least aware of and taking into account, what seems to be a steady stream of Wii U sales at individual stores? Getting a few cheaper units into the hands of people that were on the fence, so they can show their friends and convert a few people.

What if that is their "price drop" right now?

 

[Mlatador]

game installs are a nice thing, they improve load times, no?

That might be true. Still, it's doesn't refute my argument that a bigger harddrive than the current 32 GB in Wii U isn't needed. The reason why the PS4 comes wiht a 500GB harddrive is simply because you will need to install a lot of those games - and games these days are huge. It's a necessaty. Something you don't have to do on the Wii - thus the comparison is irrelevant.

 

[xxracerxx]

Why do some people keep thinking this? Do they just forget that WiiU is $350 but includes a retail game? The difference is +$100 since the PS4 does not include a game ($60) and if you want to play online you need to add PS+ subscription.

It is nice that Nintendoland is included, but I bet the PS4 will launch with a months free trial to PS+ and then users can download Driveclub as well as the indie games Don't Starve, Outlast, and Secret Poncho.

 

[balohna]

It is nice that Nintendoland is included, but I bet the PS4 will launch with a months free trial to PS+ and then users can download Driveclub PS+ Edition as well as the indie games Don't Starve, Outlast, and Secret Poncho.

Mind you it's still cool.

 

[C4Lukins]

The economics behind this is horrible.

Selling a physical system at a profit is one thing. Ok the system costs X to manufacture, ship and such. But the R&D, plus the tens of thousands of people behind the system that are constantly being payed do not factor into the 20 dollar profit or loss for each system sold.

Simply producing a product that costs lets say 180 to manufacture, 20 to ship, and then you sell at 250 at retail, where the retailer makes maybe ten bucks on each console does not a profit make. You forget about all the employees who are not figured into the consoles cost.

Basically, what you are missing, is the concept of the physical cost of the console, and the employees that extend that cost day to day. Even if they are Chinese workers making shit all, it adds up if you are only selling 10K consoles a week. It is not a 1 to 1 thing where the console costs a, and you make b.

The Wii U needs to be successful on a higher level then simple manufacturing costs versus sales. It needs to sell systems, and more importantly it needs to sell games for said system to be successful.

So a change in marketing and a price cut make sense. In order to grow the brand, they need to make it more compelling. Simply selling a product at a small profit does not account for all of the lower level costs of producing said product.

 

[-COOLIO-]

That might be true. Still, it's doesn't refute my argument that a bigger harddrive than the current 32 GB in Wii U is needed. The reason why the PS4 comes wiht a 500GB harddrive is simply because you will need to install a lot of those games - and games these days are huge. It's a necessaty. Something you don't have to do on the Wii - thus the comparison is irrelevant.

so wii u games would load faster if you could install them, ya?

 

[vctor182]

I actually think it's fairer to compare it to the PS3, which is currently $200-300 with a variety of pack-in games. It doesn't have a controller like the Wii U, but it does play Blu-rays, has a lot more storage space, and obviously a much larger library.

Well PS3 is old gen and Wii U is new gen, I do agree with you to some extend that you can compare them since they offer similar value (in between price range, Wii U has the Wii library since it's backwards compatible) but it is fairer to compare it with products of their same gen.

The online thing would matter if anyone used Wii U online and it had games to play online, but as it barely has anything to play online (and those that have online won't have any relevance on that system) makes it kind of a non issue. It's like saying my TV subscription is free but I only get 2 channels.

It's still relevant if you want to play the game fully, even if there's online players or not. With Wii U it's your choice to go on or not since it's free but with PS4 your choice will either cost you money or sacrifice online.

It is nice that Nintendoland is included, but I bet the PS4 will launch with a months free trial to PS+ and then users can download Driveclub as well as the indie games Don't Starve, Outlast, and Secret Poncho.

PS+ trial, you've said it, in the end you if you want it you will have to pay for it. Driveclub will be demo-like and if you want it you will need to pay for it. Indie games or F2P games are not retail games like Nintendoland so I'm excluding them. The difference is still over $100

 

[rjinaz]

Why do some people keep thinking this? Do they just forget that WiiU is $350 but includes a retail game? The difference is +$100 since the PS4 does not include a game ($60) and if you want to play online you need to add PS+ subscription.

If I wanted to buy a Wii U right now, I'd pay $350. I would get a game I would hardly if ever use. Not my thing. I would pay $400 for the PS4. It does not come with a game, but as far as I am concerned neither does the Wii U. Also, I'll use Gamefly so I'll have games to play on my PS4 at $400.

My point is, no matter what the Wii U does or does not come with, many people are going to see $350 vs. $400 for their own reasons because that IS what it will cost to take home the console. They may buy a game at a later point when they have more money. Therefore in my mind, it is a very valid price comparison.

 

[TDLink]

so wii u games would load faster if you could install them, ya?

IIRC Wii U discs load much faster than PS3 discs. Of course, if you could install the games it would be even faster (which is why downloaded versions have less loads than retail). Loads are never a prohibitive length though, it isn't a requirement to install games on the Wii U. Due to that having more storage space than 32GB isn't necessary if all you intend to do is play retail games and get the occasional eShop or Virtual Console game. Bigger Hard Drives are more if you are going digital on the Wii U retail releases.

I do still think it should be more than 32 though, even if it will probably be enough space for most users. I have a 160 GB PS3 and have never run into space issues, but my friend has a 40 GB PS3 and has to manage his fridge all the time.

 

[bennyc12]

Buying a $200 PS3 that came with four of the best first-party games, and then dropping $50 for 15 months of PS+ for free games every month -- I can't see myself ever buying a Wii U. The gamepad is a cool concept, but the value pales in comparison to competitors. Even with a huge price drop, the software is non-existent.

This is coming from a diehard lifelong Nintendo supporter.

It's still relevant if you want to play the game fully, even if there's online players or not. With Wii U it's your choice to go on or not since it's free but with PS4 your choice will either cost you money or sacrifice online.

I'm sorry, but the Wii U's online is laughable. This is like comparing the Wii's online "infrastructure" to Xbox Live on the 360. You certainly get what you pay for.

 

[xxracerxx]

PS+ trial, you've said it, in the end you if you want it you will have to pay for it. Driveclub will be demo-like and if you want it you will need to pay for it. Indie games or F2P games are not retail games like Nintendoland so I'm excluding them. The difference is still over $100

Why devalue indie games?

Also say someone doesn't want Nintendoland? How is that a savings of $100+ dollars to them?

 

[Mlatador]

Why devalue indie games?

Also say someone doesn't want Nintendoland? How is that a savings of $100+ dollars to them?

Get a Wii U basic?

 

[goldenpp72]

It's still relevant if you want to play the game fully, even if there's online players or not. With Wii U it's your choice to go on or not since it's free but with PS4 your choice will either cost you money or sacrifice online.

Yeah it does matter.. A service that relies solely on other people being there. If the U had any kind of charge for its online services you wouldn't have more than 10 people playing a game, it's also a horrific turd of a service, think beyond the basics of 'its there' and stop trying to make a bullshit argument against the other systems (or PC for that matter). To my understanding, Nintendo has not even released a game with online modes yet, and third parties have been cutting online modes, nerfing them, or treating them like shit in the process. No one in their sane mind would buy a Wii U with the explicit idea of them becoming a main online platform because the company that makes it doesn't take it seriously.

If i'm not mistaken, not a single game Nintendo is publishing this year will have a meaningful online mode, no online for Donkey Kong, Mario, Zelda, Pikmin, etc. The Wii U is not for online gamers, and I'd like to see one person who bought it with that intention, vs the people who play on PS, Xbox or PC. It's not a valid comparison at all because they are not even remotely close in terms of function or content.

It's fine to argue against paying for online of course, but considering in a year the U probably won't even be getting the same games the other consoles get, it will matter even less later than it does now, which is incredible.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

The WiiU will be fine once the big games start coming in. The issue is when will that be?

 

[xxracerxx]

Get a Wii U basic?

And sacrifice HDD space?

 

[goldenpp72]

And sacrifice HDD space?

The amount of space the Deluxe gets is pointless anyways, inevitably anyone who cares about digital on that system will need to buy an external HDD, it will just take a bit less time.

 

[rjinaz]

Get a Wii U basic?

In the US, this is not an easy task, certainly not at retail. Have you checked retail or even online retail stores lately? It's pretty much off the market.

 

[hongcha]

Get a Wii U basic?

Storage drops to 8GB from 32GB, which is inadequate for most users. For $350 you're really just paying for the extra storage and the few physical extras such as the stand for the gamepad. The Nintendo Land game is a freebie (also note that in Japan, there is no pack-in game with the Premium, but there is still the same ~$50 difference in price between the two versions of the console). Just like a $269 PS3 that comes packed in with a retail copy of Uncharted 3 as a freebie.

 

[Mlatador]

Storage drops to 8GB from 32GB, which is inadequate for most users. For $350 you're really just paying for the extra storage and the few physical extras such as the stand for the gamepad. The Nintendo Land game is a freebie (also note that in Japan, there is no pack-in game with the Premium, but there is still the same ~$50 difference in price between the two versions of the console). Just like a $269 PS3 that comes packed in with a retail copy of Uncharted 3 as a freebie.

You mean almost irrelevant?

8GB is enough for anyone who only plans to buy DLC and E-Shop games.

32 GB is of course better, but anyone who goes digital only will need a bigger hard drive anyway.

But what if you are in-between? Someone who only occasionally buys a digital retail game, but DLC and E-Shop games frequently?

Well, easy: Get a basic + 16 GB micro SD + Mircro SD usb card reader ( 10 + 1,50 dollar extra). That way you have a Wii U with 24 GB of storage space for only 12 - 13 dollar more

 

[DigitalOp]

Get a Wii U basic?

But I want a black system!
Argh

 

[-COOLIO-]

You mean almost irrelevant?

8GB is enough for anyone who only plans to buy DLC and E-Shop games.

32 GB is of course better, but anyone who goes digital only will need a bigger hard drive anyway.

But what if you are in between? Someone who only occasionally buys a digital retail game, DLC and E-Shop games

Well, easy: Get a basic + 16 GB micro SD + Mircro SD usb card reader ( 10 + 1,50 dollar extra). That way you have a Wii U with 24 GB of storage space for only 12 - 13 dollar more

are you sure about that? i doubt it.

 

[jmls1121]

It is nice that Nintendoland is included, but I bet the PS4 will launch with a months free trial to PS+ and then users can download Driveclub as well as the indie games Don't Starve, Outlast, and Secret Poncho.

Yeah but you're getting into hypotheticals now. Never mind that WiiU has a bunch of free shit as well, including online, Miiverse, etc.

 

[Rocky]

But I want a black system!
Argh

That's the only reason I bought a deluxe version instead of the basic, funnily enough.

 

[Mlatador]

are you sure about that? i doubt it.

Should definitely be good for guite some time. Even if not, just add the 13 dollar for 16 GB mircro sd + mircro sd usb card adapter and you are 100% set in that regard.

 

[xxracerxx]

Yeah but you're getting into hypotheticals now. Never mind that WiiU has a bunch of free shit as well, including online, Miiverse, etc.

Not hypothetical actually, but it is 14 days instead of 30days.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/20/gamescom-2013-playstation-plus-free-trial-announced-for-ps4

There is plenty of free stuff on the WiiU, that is true but that still doesn't make up for the small price gap between this and the PS4 (and I hope you understand that this is my personal opinion). WiiU for me needs to drop the price for me to be interested in the system and I think the same is true for a lot of consumers.

 

[not psycho]

But what if you are in-between? Someone who only occasionally buys a digital retail game, but DLC and E-Shop games frequently?

Well, easy: Get a basic + 16 GB micro SD + Mircro SD usb card reader ( 10 + 1,50 dollar extra). That way you have a Wii U with 24 GB of storage space for only 12 - 13 dollar more

Or get the Wii U that starts with 32 GB of space, comes with a game, and is in the color you want?

Let's say the extra space is worth $30 to you, Nintendo Land is worth $10, other little stuff/promos is worth $10. That's $50 right there, and then there is the fact I would never buy a white console in the first place when black was available.

 

[MercuryLS]

Forget about Xbox One and PS4. Wii U is competing against a PS3 bundle with a 500Gb HDD and GTAV at $270 (with a massive back catalogue of great games and all the major 3rd party titles this year, even the ones from EA which Wii U doesn't have). Wii U is in a tough spot, it's a poor value when you compare it to current gen and it's future prospects are questionable compared to PS4/Xbox One.

 

[badnewsbeers]

How about this - if Nintendo doesn't lower the price and start making a dent in the market (and also, heavily R and D ways to lower costs), they won't be around to try again in the next generation. If they don't lower the price and pump out great software, what does it matter if they're losing less money per console?

 

[xxracerxx]

How about this - if Nintendo doesn't lower the price and start making a dent in the market (and also, heavily R and D ways to lower costs), they won't be around to try again in the next generation. If they don't lower the price and pump out great software, what does it matter if they're losing less money per console?

Come on, that is not going to happen.

 

[Mrbob]

Getting an external drive and cable isn't too expensive. I bought a 500GB Toshiba external and cable from monoprice for about 50 dollars.

I just realized I spent as much money on a Wii U to set up as I will a PS4. /Me cries

Well, whatever, I needed the extra storage. Personally, I don't see 8GB worth anything. Way too small. Even for DLC and eshop only games.

 

[SonyToo!™]

For me, apart from the price at RRP, which in the UK can be found at a significant reduction. The largest turn off is the size of the HD.

8GB is useless and 32GB isn't much better, I would eventually buy a external but the traditional Wii owner isn't the type of person to do that. Most likely they just won't bother buying digital games, just my friends who bought the original X360 with a tiny HD.

Ninty should make the 32GB the basic and add a 150GB Premium model, anyway they need to do something in 2 months time or compete with the PS4 / Xbone

 

[goldenpp72]

How about this - if Nintendo doesn't lower the price and start making a dent in the market (and also, heavily R and D ways to lower costs), they won't be around to try again in the next generation. If they don't lower the price and pump out great software, what does it matter if they're losing less money per console?

Nintendo could release weaker systems and keep their games exclusive and survive for many years to come, there is mistakes and then there is doom, Nintendo has way too many powerful IP to collapse unless people stop caring about them all at the same time. Nintendo owns probably 5-10 huge IP that eclipse most games in sales each time, i'd not worry about them.

 

[RagnarokX]

How about a Deluxe in black or white with everything a Deluxe normally comes with except a game with a $10 coupon for any Wii U game at $300. Not a price cut, but it could make a difference psychologically.

 

[akachan ningen]

Nintendo is so screwed. New console within 3 years.

 

[xxracerxx]

Nintendo is so screwed. New console within 3 years.

God, that would be terrible for people who bought the WiiU near release.

 

[DSXBoy]

God, that would be terrible for people who bought the WiiU near release.

Console life cycles used to be 4 years, so Nintendo will just be returning to the old order.

 

[HiredN00bs]

I should be buying Nintendo's new console. I've purchased every piece of Nintendo hardware released thus far, barring the Virtual Boy. I'm a traditional (sticks, d-pad, and buttons are my preferred input devices) or "core" gamer, the very demographic Nintendo is supposedly targeting with the Wii U. Furthermore, I am an admirer of their unique style, and have enjoyed many outstanding games from them.

When I look at the Wii U and its library, I see games on par with this passing generation of games. That is by no means a bad thing, this generation has great looking, great sounding, and great playing games. Having Nintendo develop in HD is a great thing for gaming.

But pricing it at nearly the cost of a PS4 is a mistake. There is a value comparison to be made, and I'll take the PS4's social functions, especially when all of my online friends are getting it, over a screen on my controller for the 50 to 100 dollar difference. It's like trying to tell me 15 years ago that I should get a Playstation because it plays CDs over an N64, when I have 3 siblings who want to play games with me. I don't care enough about the gamepad to pay a premium the same as I don't care enough about Kinect to do the same with Xbox One, and the PS4 is hitting all the right notes for me.

On games, there just aren't any that are jumping out at me besides MarioKart and Smash Bros., and if they don't play well online, I'm much less interested.

 

[C4Lukins]

Ok just to get all stock market on this topic.


I am not going to look up the numbers, and make charts and shit.

The DS exploded around the time of the DS Lite. The DS was actually a bit of a flop through its first year or so, but when it went big It was nuts, it was selling 400 K a month in the US alone in off months. And then the Wii happened, and that was arguably bigger. Two straight years of straight up, you needed to work to find a system. Easily the most explosive sales of a console ever. It did sort of have a short life, but it sold so many in those first four years that the competitors are still trying to catch up in the twice the time.

Now lets go to today. The 3DS is doing fine, but it is at best keeping pace with the early years of the DS. Before the DS went on a rampage. Wii U to this point is a complete flop. And Wii sales are not doing much to make up for it.

So simply from a financial advisor perspective, Nintendo is not looking good. They are making crazy amounts of less money then they were few years ago. That does not mean they are losing money, or going bankrupt... But it does mean that they are just a smidgen of what they were three years ago.

If you owned their stock in 2010, and did not sell, you are hurting now.

That is why the OP claims of profits on unit sales are bull shit. Nintendo needs to grow, not just make a small percentage on each console sold. If they plan on Wii U being a big thing, then they will take some losses and hope to gain on the back end.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Should definitely be good for guite some time. Even if not, just add the 13 dollar for 16 GB mircro sd + mircro sd usb card adapter and you are 100% set in that regard.

Without caring to comment on a workaround, I'll just chime in that the 8GB is trash for storage. I've already had to clean out the proverbial fridge a couple of times, and the only digital content I own is Super Luigi, a Zen Pinball table, F-Zero, Punch Out, and the small handful of old digital Wii games I had.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

You mean almost irrelevant?

8GB is enough for anyone who only plans to buy DLC and E-Shop games.

32 GB is of course better, but anyone who goes digital only will need a bigger hard drive anyway.

But what if you are in-between? Someone who only occasionally buys a digital retail game, but DLC and E-Shop games frequently?

Well, easy: Get a basic + 16 GB micro SD + Mircro SD usb card reader ( 10 + 1,50 dollar extra). That way you have a Wii U with 24 GB of storage space for only 12 - 13 dollar more

As the owner of a 20 GB 360 + a USB memory stick, this is woefully shortsighted. A few demos and a few decent sized digital games and you're pretty much done for.

 

[RagnarokX]

I should be buying Nintendo's new console. I've purchased every piece of Nintendo hardware released thus far, barring the Virtual Boy. I'm a traditional (sticks, d-pad, and buttons are my preferred input devices) or "core" gamer, the very demographic Nintendo is supposedly targeting with the Wii U. Furthermore, I am an admirer of their unique style, and have enjoyed many outstanding games from them.

When I look at the Wii U and its library, I see games on par with this passing generation of games. That is by no means a bad thing, this generation has great looking, great sounding, and great playing games. Having Nintendo develop in HD is a great thing for gaming.

But pricing it at nearly the cost of a PS4 is a mistake. There is a value comparison to be made, and I'll take the PS4's social functions, especially when all of my online friends are getting it, over a screen on my controller for the 50 to 100 dollar difference. It's like trying to tell me 15 years ago that I should get a Playstation because it plays CDs over an N64, when I have 3 siblings who want to play games with me. I don't care enough about the gamepad to pay a premium the same as I don't care enough about Kinect to do the same with Xbox One, and the PS4 is hitting all the right notes for me.

On games, there just aren't any that are jumping out at me besides MarioKart and Smash Bros., and if they don't play well online, I'm much less interested.

So why does buying a PS4 this year make sense. I want one, but it has no compelling games, at least not better than what Wii U is offering this year and early next. Killzone, Driveclub, and Knack are going to have to tide you over for a while while on Wii U you could have Mario 3D World, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Sonic Lost World, Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, NSMBU and NSLU, Zombi U, Donkey Kong, Pikmine 3, Rayman, etc. PS4's hardware has better value, yes, but there's a lot of value coming to Wii U in its library.

 

[-COOLIO-]

So why does buying a PS4 this year make sense. I want one, but it has no compelling games, at least not better than what Wii U is offering this year and early next. Killzone, Driveclub, and Knack are going to have to tide you over for a while while on Wii U you could have Mario 3D World, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Sonic Lost World, Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, NSMBU and NSLU, Zombi U, Donkey Kong, Rayman, etc. PS4's hardware has better value, yes, but there's a lot of value coming to Wii U in its library.

3rd party games do in fact exist.

 

[RagnarokX]

3rd party games do in fact exist.

Yes, what 3rd party must-haves are coming out this year that are exclusive for PS4 or at least aren't also coming to PS3, 360, Wii U, PC?

You know, not everyone thinks W101 is a compelling game. And by not everyone, I mean most people. Even with its huge games lineup, the Wii U isn't a compelling purchase for the majority of people.

And Knack is? The point is the amount of interesting titles you need a PS4 to play is very small and limited. Logically it should be less compelling to more people than Wii U's large library should be.

Also keep in mind that the person I originally replied to claimed to be a member of Nintendo's core demographic.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

Yes, what 3rd party must-haves are coming out this year that are exclusive for PS4 or at least aren't also coming to PS3, 360, Wii U, PC?

You know, not everyone thinks W101 is a compelling game. And by not everyone, I mean most people. Even with its huge games lineup, the Wii U isn't a compelling purchase for the majority of people.

 

[Unknown One]

W101 is a niche. It'll most likely flop like Pikmin 3. The good games doesn't come out until 2014.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

You mean almost irrelevant?

8GB is enough for anyone who only plans to buy DLC and E-Shop games.

Ha. Not 3rd party DLC

I cant even remember the amount of 500+ MB DLC installs I've done in the last couple years. ME3 had 2GB DLC packages.

 

[Massa]

Yes, what 3rd party must-haves are coming out this year that are exclusive for PS4 or at least aren't also coming to PS3, 360, Wii U, PC?

Battlefield 4 with 64 players, next-gen FIFA, Watch Dogs looking (closer to) advertised, etc.

 

[taizuke]

Give me the 32 GB Deluxe model with Wind Waker HD at $300 and i'll get it.

 

[Mileena]

W101 is a niche. It'll most likely flop like Pikmin 3. The good games doesn't come out until 2014.

TW101 is going to flop much worse than Pikmin 3. Much worse I'm afraid

It's being released literally right near GTA V and I know which game I'd choose if I was strapped for cash.

 

[Spira]

So they're stuck in between a rock and a hard place. Honestly who's going to want a wii u after November? I see their sales slowing down even more than they already are.

C'mon Nintendo I hate to see you like this.