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[polyh3dron]

Making a character in a game for no other purpose than to get more girls to cosplay in bikinis doesn't really strike me as empowering women.

So what's your opinion on the girls who cosplay as such a character?

The way I viewed his tweet was that he was pandering to cosplayers. Not trying to demean them.

 

[Karkador]

So titilating means degrading? To whom? The character? My girlfriend? Other women? Why is an very attractive female be degrading to other women? Unless you factor puritanism and sexual guilt which feminists are fighting to get rid off it makes no sense.

It has nothing to do with puritanism and sexual guilt. It's that actual women have to contend with the warped concepts put forth by fictional women, as created by men for other men.

Let me put it like this: imagine that I just start talking about you (Scooter) to the public. Every day, I tell the people all sorts of things about you, based on my impression or reactions or ideals of you. I will make a bunch of stuff up, as it's fun to be creative and express my personal vision of who you are. It doesn't matter if it's true or not...if I just tell them things enough times, the public has little choice but to remember and accept what I've said about you more than what you have actually said to and impressed on them directly. There might even be those people who will defend me in saying whatever warped, dumbass things about you. Even if I tell positive lies about you, it would just lead to you feeling like you can't live up to this inflated idea that people have about you. Doesn't that sound like a pain in the ass to deal with?

 

[ixix]

K, no. I did no such thing. You switching quotes around like this is rather frustrating. I interpreted this statement:

"The latter is a statement that its very existence is hurtful to segments of society, and implies that as a result of this we would be better served on the whole for it not to exist. For these reasons I feel that both of these forms of statement are de facto censorious, and furthermore that both are inherently aggressive positions and should be responded to as such."​

to be a condemnation of criticism. Granted, it was too broad of me to characterize it as a condemnation of all criticism. Nevertheless, you certainly did describe certain forms of criticism as "de facto censorious." And I do not agree with that descriptor, nor I see any meaningful difference between that type of criticism and the type you say is acceptable.

So while I admit I misread some parts of your post, of the two misreadings you are accusing me of, one I took to be a hypothetical, and the other is you substituting an entirely different remark from another part of your post and acting as if I were responding to that even though I wasn't.

But now I'm doubly confused. You say above that you were actually endorsing the position that the trend of sexualized female characters can have marginalizing effects, and yet below that you claimed that criticism based on causative arguments that such works do harm to society (of which that would surely qualify) are censorious and should be fought.

What gives? I'm not trying to be clever here; I honestly don't see how you can reconcile these viewpoints. Is it acceptable to criticize negative depictions in media for the marginalizing effects they have at large or not?

Alright, I don't think we're really in any sort of disagreement on a lot of things, here, and I suspect that maybe we got some wires crossed and this whole conversation turned out way more hostile than it really ought to have. I'm going to try to backtrack a bit, because I think we've got quite a bit of common ground that got lost in the shuffle.

I readily call myself a feminist, and I think that men who play video games have a dramatically greater variety in portrayals of their gender within the medium than women do. Examples of female characters within video games are far more narrow in the variety of depictions they represent than are male characters, and it's entirely valid to observe this, to criticize it, and to advocate for increased variety in these portrayals and for them to have greater importance within the medium. I don't think that you and I are in any sort of disagreement so far.

The state of video game portrayals of women, in aggregate, and the paucity of variety in those portrayals is the emergent result of video game developers being largely male and, by extension, of them making games primarily inspired and informed by the sorts of games that made them take an interest in the medium, which were themselves originally made by development teams which were largely male. As an emergent system, however, I don't think that any individual developer bears a responsibility to actively erode the extant state of these portrayals.

I'm rather fond of bell hooks, and she makes a significant distinction between the ideas of representation and self-representation. What I think is probably the best overview of the concept is in her book Ain't I a Woman: Black Women and Feminism, in which she discusses how she feels that the (majority white) American feminist movements of the time (the book was originally published in 1981) did a poor job of adequately representing the needs of black women -- even if they proclaimed a sincere intent to do so -- and the importance for black women to represent themselves rather than to rely on the larger feminist movement as a result. She also touches on the concomitant importance for black women to represent themselves in matters of racial representation rather than to allow black men to dominate such discourse. I agree with this, and believe that self-representation of minority groups is, ultimately, the only long-term solution to the situation we are currently faced with in regards to the overall picture of comparatively poor female representation in video games.

I've got a background in theater, and during my time working there was a rather well-entrenched culture of responding strongly in opposition to any behavior which was or was tantamount to an attempt at de facto censorship. It was the bounds between criticism and such attempts that I was explaining in my original post. I will confess that there was a practical component to this opposition; it's generally trivially easy for an individual with malicious intent to severely disrupt a theatrical production and disrupt the ability of the audience to experience the show or, worse, to injure a performer. I'm amenable to the idea that the blanket oppositional response to statements which cross certain boundaries in the context of theatrical productions may be overly reactive when applied to mediums like video games where the separation between artists and audiences are far greater, but I still think that the ideal of free expression and the fecundity of ideas that it enables is sufficiently valuable that de facto censorious statements warrant strong opposition.

Finally, add all this together, and you've got my position, which I'm going to condense into a handy Cliff's Notes version right here:

1. Video game portrayals of women are quite bad on the whole, and this state of affairs doesn't really do anybody much good.
2. Extant video game developers are predominantly male, and therefore the bulk of female portrayals resulting from such an environment are inevitably going to be portrayals of a minority as interpreted through the lens of the majority, and I don't think that this is good enough because I value self-representation.
3. The only meaningful and acceptable long-term solution to the problem of poor female representation in video games is, therefore, to incentivise increased female participation in game development. This can take many forms: democratization of development tools and publishing channels, eroding barriers toward women engaging in STEM education and careers and encouraging such engagement, and identifying and eliminating structural aspects of video game development which serve to alienate women are three examples I can think of off the top of my head.
4. As an emergent system, no individual bears ultimate responsibility for the poor quality of female representation in video games, and so castigating individual examples of poor portrayals doesn't serve much purpose, and my admittedly subjective perception is that it constitutes a significant amount of the conversation on the subject. If people find it edifying to single out games and designers for excoriation then that's their prerogative, but as someone who wishes to see a greater breadth of expression through the medium of video games I'm frankly opposed to the practice.
5. Censorship is not the exclusive domain of government forces, and conflation of media consumption with anti-social or undesirable behavior or allegations of causative harm stemming from media both constitute forms of de facto attempts at censorship. Even if not as egregious as de jure censorship, such attempts warrant strong opposition. Note also that there is a large difference between such attempts and media criticism in general.
6. Expressions of sexuality are a perfectly natural part of the human experience. No individual bears any responsibility to abrogate such expression through media even if the effects of a preponderance of one type of such expression on a large scale have an unintended negative effect.​

And that's pretty much everything I have to say about the subject. Hopefully now that I've gotten this monkey off my back I can finally curb the endless masochism that drives me to post in these threads.

 

[KugelBlitz]

He did, what's the problem? Are you assuming that these females aren't smart enough to make their own decisions? If anything, people like you who want to protect the helpless females are what's anti-feminist.

Ouch, thanks alot buddy! That's not what I said at all.

What I'm saying is Mr. Kojima designed a female character with such attributes with the intent females cosplayers would dress in that particular, skimpy manner.

For me it demonstrates how he values such attributes, and I personally think it demonstrates how much he values attractive female characters, for he designs them to dress in a revealing manner in hopes real female cosplayer will reveal themselves too.

Taken far enough one could argue how it demonstrates his view towards females.

But...Thanks for insult, I was just trying to raise--what I thought--was a valid concern.

 

[Ratrat]

Ouch, thanks alot buddy! That's not what I said at all.

What I'm saying is Mr. Kojima designed a female character with such attributes with the intent females cosplayers would dress in that particular, skimpy manner.

For me it demonstrates how he values such attributes, and I personally think it demonstrates how much he values attractive female characters, for he designs them to dress in a revealing manner in hopes real female cosplayer will reveal themselves too.

Taken far enough one could argue how it demonstrates his view towards females.

But...Thanks for insult, I was just trying to raise--what I thought--was a valid concern.

So what does the Boss, Meryl or Fortunes designs demonstrate?

 

[Bedlam]

I, for one, am offended by both how Cortana developed over time and by Kojima's new "make em sexy for cosplaying lol" way of designing characters.

And me being offended by those things has nothing whatsoever to do with sexism. That discussion is ridiculous most of the times because people mix up sexism with sexual objectification (not the same).

I am offended because this pandering-approach to character design is cheap and lazy.

 

[Scooter]

It has nothing to do with puritanism and sexual guilt. It's that actual women have to contend with the warped concepts put forth by fictional women, as created by men for other men.

Let me put it like this: imagine that I just start talking about you (Scooter) to the public. Every day, I tell the people all sorts of things about you, based on my impression or reactions or ideals of you. I will make a bunch of stuff up, as it's fun to be creative and express my personal vision of who you are. It doesn't matter if it's true or not...it's just said enough times that the public has little choice but to remember and accept what I've said about you more than what you have actually said to them directly. Doesn't that sound like a pain in the ass to deal with?

It has everything to do with puritanism, even your post is affected by it. You've assumed that the main and only aspect of that female character is her sexuality because she is sexually attractive even though you haven't played the game. You focus so much on sexuality that it clouds your perception of the subject. Given the way her face looks I expect her to be way more interesting as a character than you've assumed.

The only thing that character model tells to women is that they can dress however they fucking want.

 

[KugelBlitz]

So what does the Boss, Meryl or Fortunes designs demonstrate?

Their design may not represent anything, but that isn't the point, because we know Quiet's design was founded on the intent of wanting female cosplayers to dress in a particular manner...

Which would make me refer to my previous post.

 

[The Silver]

Fantastical shit may happen all the time in the series (though now we're to believe it was all nanomachines), but the series has also always had a fetish for gear and tech that is either real or an offshoot of real. Characters wear stuff that protects them from hypothermia, reads the salts in their body, has octo-camo, enhances their strength, gives them night vision, etc. etc. What characters wear in Metal Gear games has always actually mattered a lot.

So for the creative decision to now be "she's gonna run around a warzone in panties and a bra, because it's sexy" is, even in Metal Gear Solid land, more unbelievable than nanomachines and vampires and psychics. It's absolutely a ridiculous sight to see this girl with a web belt and holders and grenades and stuff on directly over her underwear, and after all the dumb things we had to sit through in MGS4, this really does not look like Kojima cleaning up his act for the sequel. The guy needs an editor.

Now lets be fair here, Liquid Snake and Vulcan Raven were running around shirtless in the Alaskan winter while Solid had to wear a special suit just so he wouldn't freeze to death.

And I have to say you are grossly overreacting, one character design doesn't say shit about the quality of MGSV.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Their design may not represent anything, but that isn't the point, because we know Quiet's design was founded on the intent of wanting female cosplayers to dress in a particular manner...

Which would make me refer to my previous post.

It also design to sell figures ( would also say other merchandise) and lets be real here so is a lot of stuff people just don't have the balls to say it .

 

[Romars202129]

what do we call Eli again? I suppose sexualized teen would suffice, lest we think there's some actual character development behind his outer appearance.

Probably marketed to female gamers for the same point you raised about quiet.

Alright, I've got to stop argueing with this crap for a minute to say...
ELI is Liquid! Man I can't wait for this game!

 

[Ratrat]

Their design may not represent anything, but that isn't the point, because we know Quiet's design was founded on the intent of wanting female cosplayers to dress in a particular manner...

Which would make me refer to my previous post.

You were suggesting he values physical attractiveness above other attributes when he's created female characters with muscular physique and unshaven pits.

His pandering here may be an insult to his audiences intelligence but I don't see why we have to suggest he's sexist especially when his female cast is pretty diverse.

 

[polyh3dron]

It has nothing to do with puritanism and sexual guilt. It's that actual women have to contend with the warped concepts put forth by fictional women, as created by men for other men.

Let me put it like this: imagine that I just start talking about you (Scooter) to the public. Every day, I tell the people all sorts of things about you, based on my impression or reactions or ideals of you. I will make a bunch of stuff up, as it's fun to be creative and express my personal vision of who you are. It doesn't matter if it's true or not...if I just tell them things enough times, the public has little choice but to remember and accept what I've said about you more than what you have actually said to and impressed on them directly. There might even be those people who will defend me in saying whatever warped, dumbass things about you. Even if I tell positive lies about you, it would just lead to you feeling like you can't live up to this inflated idea that people have about you. Doesn't that sound like a pain in the ass to deal with?

Because it's only women that have to compete with warped concepts of femininity in media. Men don't have to compete with warped concepts of masculinity in media.

 

[Romars202129]

You were suggesting he values physical attractiveness above other attributes when he's created female characters with muscular physique and unshaven pits.

His pandering here may be an insult to his audience but I don't see why we have to suggest he's sexist especially when his female casts ate pretty diverse.

These people are immune to logic.

 

[Scooter]

Ouch, thanks alot buddy! That's not what I said at all.

What I'm saying is Mr. Kojima designed a female character with such attributes with the intent females cosplayers would dress in that particular, skimpy manner.

For me it demonstrates how he values such attributes, and I personally think it demonstrates how much he values attractive female characters, for he designs them to dress in a revealing manner in hopes real female cosplayer will reveal themselves too.

Taken far enough one could argue how it demonstrates his view towards females.

But...Thanks for insult, I was just trying to raise--what I thought--was a valid concern.

He likes attractive cosplayers and thinks other males will like them too, what's wrong with that? His view of females can't be shoehorned based on his belief (and reality) that sexual attraction sells, people are more complicated than that.

That's why sex-positive feminism is a valid ideology while the other kind is just fucked up regressive puritanism. Puritanical feminism promotes sexual guilt for both women and men. Women supposedly degrade themselves by doing almost anything sexual and mean are pigs and perverts who should feel guilty because they're attracted to females. It's bullshit.

 

[Karkador]

It has everything to do with puritanism, even your post is affected by it. You've assumed that the main and only aspect of that female character is her sexuality because she is sexually attractive even though you haven't played the game. You focus so much on sexuality that it clouds your perception of the subject. Given the way her face looks I expect her to be way more interesting as a character than you've assumed.

The only thing that character model tells to women is that they can dress however they fucking want.

No, as I've said already, I'm assuming the character is going to be shit because kojima lost his mind after mgs4. I understand that we don't know much about her or the rest of the game, but we do know that kojima made mgs4 and the series has not exactly been on an upward trend ever since.

However, the character model says much more about how men want women to dress, not that women can dress however they want. But go ahead and tell me how advocating against men controlling the public image of women is a puritan or anti-sexual view.

Because it's only women that have to compete with warped concepts of femininity in media. Men don't have to compete with warped concepts of masculinity in media.

I'm sure we've already been over this before, but yes, they do. Not as much, though. And not in the way so many seem to think. And not really from something like Metal Gear Solid.

 

[karasu]

I think he's just been watching too much 24 and she's going to end up like Mandy the sexualized, or sexy, assassin. Hollywood is full of them.

 

[Celestial Mortal]

So what's your opinion on the girls who cosplay as such a character?

The way I viewed his tweet was that he was pandering to cosplayers. Not trying to demean them.

Kojima's a big fan of this girl (SSSniperwolf)

He often retweets her tweets like a school boy.

 

[KugelBlitz]

You were suggesting he values physical attractiveness above other attributes when he's created female characters with muscular physique and unshaven pits.

He's also created an attractive female for the purpose of wanting female cosplayers to dress in a particular, skimpy manner.

To me that kind of demonstrates how he values such attributes.

He hasn't made this character sound important, he's basically stated his intent for this character is to make females dress in this particular way.

He hasn't justified any actual importance about her.

But perhaps I'm being impetuous and I require context, it's just it doesn't sound like a good indicator to how important this character will be.

He likes attractive cosplayers and thinks other males will like them too, what's wrong with that? His view of females can't be shoehorned based on his belief (and reality) that sexual attraction sells, people are more complicated than that.

Having an attractive character is fine (if adequately justified), having one for the purpose of just pleasing the male audience, while wanting the 'expense' to be from female cosplayers could be taken to sexual objectification, of the character and of those women.

Put simply.

 

[Kinyou]

He's basically designed a revealing character for the sole purpose of wanting to see real females dress in such a manner.

Did he say that? I think the idea is that sexy characters are more appealing to (some) cosplayers. It also has the nice side effect that those cosplayers get more attention which also means more attention for Metal Gear Solid 5

 

[Trent Strong]

Ouch, thanks alot buddy! That's not what I said at all.

What I'm saying is Mr. Kojima designed a female character with such attributes with the intent females cosplayers would dress in that particular, skimpy manner.

For me it demonstrates how he values such attributes, and I personally think it demonstrates how much he values attractive female characters, for he designs them to dress in a revealing manner in hopes real female cosplayer will reveal themselves too.

Taken far enough one could argue how it demonstrates his view towards females.

But...Thanks for insult, I was just trying to raise--what I thought--was a valid concern.

Nope.

 

[karasu]

He hasn't made this character sound important, he's basically stated his intent for this character is to make females dress in this particular way.
.

He said it was hisinitial target. It's not all she is.

 

[KugelBlitz]

Did he say that? I think the idea is that sexy characters are more appealing to (some) cosplayers. It also has the nice side effect that those cosplayers get more attention which also means more attention for Metal Gear Solid 5

I believe he stated his intent for the character is to be erotic, as a result he designs his characters to be revealing so that cosplayers will dress in an according manner, which is revealing.

He then proceeded to post a picture of a lovely bottom with something along the lines of "more like this".

I don't have the tweets, but I believe they can be located.

If he poorly articulated his position because of the language barrier, then I'll happily revoke my position.

Nope.

Care to elaborate?

Because he did state that she was initially created in order to sell figurines and to hope females will dress in that particular manner.

He said it was hisinitial target. It's not all she is.

But that's the only real reason he has stated her importance for.

Like I said, it may need contextualising, and perhaps I am being rather impetuous, so I'll reserve full judgement until the game comes out.

But it wasn't the best way to indicate how important a character is valued.

 

[Romars202129]

Did he say that? I think the idea is that sexy characters are more appealing to (some) cosplayers. It also has the nice side effect that those cosplayers get more attention which also means more attention for Metal Gear Solid 5

I got the exact same interpretation. Wasn't her original design just camo pants and a bikini top? The point of the change may have been that didn't stand out enough for a cosplayer.

 

[Ratrat]

He's also created an attractive female for the purpose of wanting female cosplayers to dress in a particular, skimpy manner.

To me that kind of demonstrates how he values such attributes.

He hasn't made this character sound important, he's basically stated his intent for this character is to make females dress in this particular way.

He hasn't justified any actual importance about her.

But perhaps I'm being impetuous and I require context, it's just it doesn't sound like a good indicator to how important this character will be.



Having an attractive character is fine (if adequately justified), having one for the purpose of just pleasing the male audience, while wanting the 'expense' to be from female cosplayers could be taken to sexual objectification, of the character and of those women.

Put simply.

She's the 'heroine' of the game. She will definitely be important to the plot. Her actual design was made to be sexy. Though probably unsuccessful and misguided it does sound like they tried to make her sexy in a way both men and women would like. Anyway, I don't care for the character or intention myself. The personal charges...well I disagree as there are enough examples of kojima creating strong female characters to suggest he does not see women the way you mentioned.

 

[Kinyou]

I believe he stated his intent for the character is to be erotic, as a result he designs his characters to be revealing so that cosplayers will dress in an according manner, which is revealing.

He then proceeded to post a picture of a lovely bottom with something along the lines of "more like this".

I don't have the tweets, but I believe they can be located.

If he poorly articulated his position because of the language barrier, then I'll happily revoke my position.

I know those tweets, but you made it sound like he's lusting after those cosplayers, and just designed her that way because he personally wants to see them half naked. Maybe I just misinterpreted your posts.

 

[KugelBlitz]

She's the 'heroine' of the game. She will definitely be important to the plot. Her actual design was made to be sexy. Though probably unsuccessful and misguided it does sound like they tried to make her sexy in a way both men and women would like. Anyway, I don't care for the character or intention myself. The personal charges...well I disagree as there are enough examples of kojima creating strong female characters to suggest he does not see women the way you mentioned.

Well he definitely made the heroine sound important...*

I guess we'll agree to disagree, I do think intent can be important in such circumstances, and I've never heard of Kojima designing an attractive male character with the purpose of wanting males to dress in a particular manner.

But like I said, I'll reserve judgement.

*Sarcasm

 

[Yazuka]

Alright, I've got to stop argueing with this crap for a minute to say...
ELI is Liquid! Man I can't wait for this game!

Well I'm glad to see I am not the only one who thinks Eli is Liquid.

 

[KugelBlitz]

I know those tweets, but you made it sound like he's lusting after those cosplayers, and just designed her that way because he personally wants to see them half naked. Maybe I just misinterpreted your posts.

When he posts a picture of a lovely bottom stating "something like this.."

I kind of find it hard not to interpret that as wanting female cosplayers to be extreme eye-candy.

 

[Ratrat]

Kojima is a pervert though. I just finished Policenauts! Still, even that game had strong female characters.

 

[Kinyou]

When he posts a picture of a lovely bottom stating "something like this.."

I kind of find it hard not to interpret that as wanting female cosplayers to be extreme eye-candy.

True. But I see a difference between him personally lusting after it and making a business decision about how to promote his game in the best way.
From his tweets I got the impression of the latter.

 

[The Silver]

Kojima's lucky MGS4 came out when it did, I can't imagine the shitstorm that would've arose from the B&B unit sexy photo shoot if it came out today.

 

[Romars202129]

She's the 'heroine' of the game. She will definitely be important to the plot. Her actual design was made to be sexy. Though probably unsuccessful and misguided it does sound like they tried to make her sexy in a way both men and women would like. Anyway, I don't care for the character or intention myself. The personal charges...well I disagree as there are enough examples of kojima creating strong female characters to suggest he does not see women the way you mentioned.

The Boss, Meryl, Sniper Wolf, Olga Gulucavich, Eva*, and Naomi Hunter are some of the best female characters I've ever had the pleasure of seeing in a game.
The Boss, Meryl, S Wolf and Olga are absolute badasses that rank with any of the series' male heroes, and in most cases out pace them.
Which, is why I can't take sexist crap seriously. If the guy making the best female characters[my oppinion] in gaming is a sexist, then we are lost.

 

[Team Filler]

Alright, I don't think we're really in any sort of disagreement on a lot of things...

<snip>

Great post. Would read again.

 

[polyh3dron]

Kojima is a pervert though. I just finished Policenauts! Still, even that game had strong female characters.

lol yeah Policenauts was ridiculous.

 

[polyh3dron]

The Boss, Meryl, Sniper Wolf, Olga Gulucavich, Eva*, and Naomi Hunter are some of the best female characters I've ever had the pleasure of seeing in a game.
The Boss, Meryl, S Wolf and Olga are absolute badasses that rank with any of the series' male heroes, and in most cases out pace them.
Which, is why I can't take sexist crap seriously. If the guy making the best female characters[my oppinion] in gaming is a sexist, then we are lost.

It's basically like calling Joss Whedon or Quentin Tarantino misogynists.

 

[KugelBlitz]

True. But I see a difference between him personally lusting after it and making a business decision about how to promote his game in the best way.
From his tweets I got the impression of the latter.

I don't get the impression that this was centered around making business decisions, but I don't think his intent of the message was inherently bad either, it's just that his intent for such a character potentially raises an eyebrow.

I don't see it as personal lust either, but it could easily be seen as to please the male (which includes him) audience at the expense of revealing females.

 

[Romars202129]

Kojima's lucky MGS4 came out when it did, I can't imagine the shitstorm that would've arose from the B&B unit sexy photo shoot if it came out today.

Dude had five of the hottest super models in the world pose nude for him to base those women on. No arguement from me, Kojima is certainly a perv. But damn, who can blame him? Who here wouldn't do that shit in his position?

 

[Sorral]

Kojima is a pervert though. I just finished Policenauts! Still, even that game had strong female characters.

He is. He has always been like this; however, I think the better the graphics, the more people are starting to notice it and get mad about it.
Personally, I think Kojima just wants to do anything freely now and bring in a bigger audience (not just cosplayers/figures really). I mean, he hired Kief Sutherland to act for him and he did say that his new MGS games will be expressing a lot more than they used to be.

The rest are LTTP 5hours/3-4 pages. Sorry!

Isn't that more purple, though? Magenta, perhaps?

The light parts look certainly blue or sky blue to me. For the darker ones, I think you might be right, but most people will go with blue for easiness and for the joke here to work.

I knew that but whats with the specific "you are blue" quote is what I meant

It's just a joke, playing on the fact that Cortana from Halo 4 has blue skin.

Pretty much the above. Instead of the pot calling the kettle black, it is calling it blue based on Cortana's skin.

 

[Scooter]

No, as I've said already, I'm assuming the character is going to be shit because kojima lost his mind after mgs4. I understand that we don't know much about her or the rest of the game, but we do know that kojima made mgs4 and the series has not exactly been on an upward trend ever since.

However, the character model says much more about how men want women to dress, not that women can dress however they want. But go ahead and tell me how advocating against men controlling the public image of women is a puritan or anti-sexual view.

Which brings us back to the part where supposed feminists want to protect the helpless cosplayers. And yes, it says a lot about how men want women to dress, they're sexually active males of course they'd want that. So you're expecting males to feel guilty because they want to see semi naked women and women to feel degraded because they, as consenting and self-aware adults, decided to dress in a way very attractive to men.

And all that guilt and presumed degradation for something as natural as sexual attraction. Puritanism is really fucked up.

 

[Romars202129]

Well I'm glad to see I am not the only one who thinks Eli is Liquid.

Actually, there's a good amount of evidence for it. IMO, it's pretty much confirmed!

 

[Yazuka]

Actually, there's a good amount of evidence for it. IMO, it's pretty much confirmed!

Ohh, that's cool. =)

 

[MikeJAMoran]

David probably thinks the same about Cortana.

There's nothing wrong with him having an opinion.

 

[bj00rn_]

You can't be this dense of a person. It's totally wrong for a person to have an opinion on their own twitter account? Is wrong for a person to put down details where he or she works? What is this? This is the most backward ass logic I've heard all day. It's almost like you can't have an opinion or put down any details on your personal account. Because those regular thing people have been doing since the invention of the internet and the rise of social media are bad. What.

I'm so sorry for you that the first thing that comes up in your mind on this subject of all things is console wars, seriously? That is some terrible ass mentality. Just terrible. Is that the best you can do? My avatar offends you? It&#8217;s almost like you made up your opinion regardless, which tells us more about you then it does me.

Yes, my sympathies to anyone who tries to have a mature discussion about this in here (not saying there is none, good thing people try). Everything mentioned in this place these days seems to come from some kind of basic instinct console war feeling. It's frustrating to discuss with that kind of mentality in the air.

Anyway, in the context of the discussion it's not exactly hard to see that shift in direction in the design.

And that is exactly it; the ironic thing about some of the discussion in here is that people are complaining about someone complaining about something that Kojima explicitly told his designer to create; Something slutty..

So what are people up in arms about exactly? The certain attitude in the twitter message..? I don't really get it.

 

[TatteredHat]

So what are people up in arms about exactly? The certain attitude in the twitter message..? I don't really get it.

The preceived hypocrisy, I would assume.

 

[TheOddOne]

Who cares what is more sensationalist? I could give two shits. If Kojima were to make an ass of himself on a Twitter account openly promoting and linking to his employer, yes, it's a negative reflection on Konami. You're desperate to disassociate the two, but the fact is that people on this industry use them for promotional purposes. You can't have it both ways when you put your foot in your mouth, sweet billy.

Back to working on Cortana's DOA jiggle..

Sign, because everything anybody with company details on their account says on twitter, Facebook or any other social media is promoting -- it's not like people post their personal stuff or opinions. Only thing that you are advocating is censorship. Any reasonable person would never think this way. Only people who dig themselves so deep that they have to stand by such a statement acts this way – and I don’t know what’s sadder, common sense not prevailing over trying-to-stir-up-rage-for-nothing.

The fact that you keep referring to console wars memes only shows how much you missed the real debate. That is some terrible mentality to have, but keep digging and trying to justify a flawed logic.

 

[Leewan]

One has the body of a blue naked barbie doll with wider hips. One is supposed to be made of flesh and is wearing see through tights with a thong, no purpose really exists for why someone would wear this.

The fact that cortana is a computer generated female form without genitalia, just a dolls body, and quiet is human but wearing see through tights with no other purpose to see her thong and be erotic is a pretty be difference to me.

A sexless blue blob with wide hips and above average breast size vs a Fredrick's of Hollywood lingerie option and model that's supposed to be flesh and blood. Can people not notice quiet has no pants? Cortana doesn't even have a butt?

Cortana comparison is just proof that there are some guys that find their sisters undressed Barbie dolls erotic

 

[big_erk]

But men regularly wade into combat without a shirt on, right?

Of course, they do!

 

[Fahdi]

Not offensive at all.

 

[semiconscious]

David probably thinks the same about Cortana.

There's nothing wrong with him having an opinion.

you're a junkie. you criticize your neighbor for being a junkie. opinion? yeah. moron? yeah...