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Valve reveals specs for prototype Steam Machines.

~Kinggi~

Banned
I don't see it as possible frankly. Maybe it's a typo. A micro atX motherboard would take up 10" x 10" which is basically the entire floor of the case filled. Titan is 10.5" long and 4,5" high, and about an inch(?) thick. Even assuming it is lying flat you'd need to flip it 90 degrees, which would fill half the case and probably block ram or CPU sockets. Then you have nowhere to put the PSU which would need a quarter if the case to itself.

Might they try with a mini-ITX motherboard? Some kind of custom PSU?

I have a bunch of experience recently trying to fit high-end componants into as small a case as possible and the best i could do was around 17.5 x 12.7 x 5.9. And that wasnt with a titan but a gtx 770.

These parts would have to be ultra custom along with new pieces to re-route components to the motherboard. Cooling must be very custom as well.
 

Sentenza

Member
I don't know why it exists but AMD has reputation of being consumer friendly brand and offering better performance for price.
Which as far as I can remember was true at some point several years ago and... it hasn't been the case anymore since then.
It was also when I had for some time an ATI myself (plus an AMD CPU), and I can't really say that was a smooth experience, frankly.

Currently Nvidia has GPUs that outclass or at least compete on even ground with AMD pretty in much in every single relevant price range and it's far more reliable when it comes to support and overall software compatibility.
 
What's up with these people on GAF loving AMD more for no apparent reason?
Is it some sort of "cheer for the underdog" thing?

Provided that AMD gets their drivers in check, a Kaveri APU steam machine could potentially be really awesome and at an affordable price. That, and with mantle and huma, it could share many of the console optimizations for specific games.

Maybe in a year.
 

Dario ff

Banned
Which as far as I can remember was true at some point several years ago and... it hasn't been the case anymore since then.

Has been the case here sadly. That small price difference on the retail prices seems to be blown out of proportion in Latin America so far, and the difference between mid-end AMD and mid-end Nvidia has gotten in the realm of $200 more for a card that performs around the same. I'm hoping we get some more competitive pricing by the end of the year.

I'd say a big chunk of the driver features that Nvidia offers are just really beneficial for the ones that want to go mid-high end IMO. I have no monitor for 3D Vision and I wouldn't buy a powerful enough GPU to make that much use of stuff like TXAA, forced AO, PhysX, etc. The only legitimate issue I have with the AMD drivers is that they broke the downsampling... which was the best way I had to force better IQ on some of the least resource demanding games I use. And it's making me consider switching if the prices get better.

Luckily, this price situation doesn't happen with CPUs yet, so I can't be more glad to have ditched my AMD CPU. Stuff tends to be cheaper the more they're bought, and those Sandy/Ivy CPUs are being sold a LOT over here compared to the AMD products.
 

BobTheSpy

Banned
What people are forgetting here with "it's just a gaming PC!!!" is the most important factor: price. If Valve can price it cheap enough (cheaper than building your own with exactly the same specs), they will have demand for it simply because of that. And how can Valve afford to sell SteamBoxes so cheap? It's simple: A lack of Windows, and most importantly: STEAM.

By buying a SteamBox, you are locking yourself into Valve's ecosystem, and part of every purchase on Steam goes to Valve. Therefore, they could sell these things for razor-thin margins, break-even, or hell, they could even sell them at a loss and still make money! It's brilliant, really. I think people will be surprised at what a good value Valve's SteamBox will be.
 

slapnuts

Junior Member
I love how loads of people are ignoring the 660 and i3s.

They're getting a range of testing configs for their Steam Machines and SteamOS.



Not much other than potential for OEMs to create enclosed, very small systems as they can tightly design around thermal limits. Look at laptops, they can thin them down by creating their own proprietary motherboards, etc - something similar could happen here for the premade Steamboxes.

You mean like what Dell, HP,etc already do with their desktops? I still do not get the big idea behind this steambox other than it being "premade" which is nothing new...including a Gaming PC premade box is nothing new.

Don't get me wrong..i am all for "anything" to boost PC gaming because i miss the good old days of many PC AAA exclusives but this has "fail" written all over it. The good in this is the marketing for SteamOS but other than that...these SteamBoxes is nothing new and will not bring gaming pc's cheaper than what's already out there imho.
 

Clawww

Member
What people are forgetting here with "it's just a gaming PC!!!" is the most important factor: price. If Valve can price it cheap enough (cheaper than building your own with exactly the same specs), they will have demand for it simply because of that. And how can Valve afford to sell SteamBoxes so cheap? It's simple: A lack of Windows, and most importantly: STEAM.

By buying a SteamBox, you are locking yourself into Valve's ecosystem, and part of every purchase on Steam goes to Valve. Therefore, they could sell these things for razor-thin margins, break-even, or hell, they could even sell them at a loss and still make money! It's brilliant, really. I think people will be surprised at what a good value Valve's SteamBox will be.

Even if it's not cheaper than current OEM stuff, it'll be more appealing to people because of the Steam brand and the Valve name... and the controller. I don't think the draw of this machine will really be the price, but the fact that it will be relatively simple and familiar for non-PC gamers.

What people are forgetting here with "it's just a gaming PC!!!" is the most important factor: price. If Valve can price it cheap enough (cheaper than building your own with exactly the same specs), they will have demand for it simply because of that. And how can Valve afford to sell SteamBoxes so cheap? It's simple: A lack of Windows, and most importantly: STEAM.

By buying a SteamBox, you are locking yourself into Valve's ecosystem, and part of every purchase on Steam goes to Valve. Therefore, they could sell these things for razor-thin margins, break-even, or hell, they could even sell them at a loss and still make money! It's brilliant, really. I think people will be surprised at what a good value Valve's SteamBox will be.

You're going to be able to install Windows on a steam machine.
 
Not sure if I understand all the salt ITT. Between Valve themselves and all the OEM steam machines, there should be tons of options to pick from, with varying performance levels and price points. Were people wanting Valve to make a box with an i7 and Titan and have it compete on price with consoles?
 
Give me something for about $400 or less and I'll strongly consider getting it. My laptop is absolutely terrible when it comes to gaming, so I'd be more than willing to get something that I can use to actually play some of the games I own
KuGsj.gif
 

Clawww

Member
Not sure if I understand all the salt ITT. Between Valve themselves and all the OEM steam machines, there should be tons of options to pick from, with varying performance levels and price points. Were people wanting Valve to make a box with an i7 and Titan and have it compete on price with consoles?

Yeah, I don't understand this either.
 

Xilium

Member
What people are forgetting here with "it's just a gaming PC!!!" is the most important factor: price. If Valve can price it cheap enough (cheaper than building your own with exactly the same specs), they will have demand for it simply because of that. And how can Valve afford to sell SteamBoxes so cheap? It's simple: A lack of Windows, and most importantly: STEAM.

By buying a SteamBox, you are locking yourself into Valve's ecosystem, and part of every purchase on Steam goes to Valve. Therefore, they could sell these things for razor-thin margins, break-even, or hell, they could even sell them at a loss and still make money! It's brilliant, really. I think people will be surprised at what a good value Valve's SteamBox will be.

Valve isn't making the machines (only the 300 demo units), so they will have very little control over what the manufactures will charge for their devices.

Even if it's not cheaper than current OEM stuff, it'll be more appealing to people because of the Steam brand and the Valve name... and the controller. I don't think the draw of this machine will really be the price, but the fact that it will be relatively simple and familiar for non-PC gamers.

If they're going after the console crowd, price is everything. Also, relatively simple for a pc is still not as easy as the "every game for this system works" environment of the consoles. Having multiple models and possibly modular parts already makes this a deal more complicated than what the average console gamer would be willing to put up with.

Not sure if I understand all the salt ITT. Between Valve themselves and all the OEM steam machines, there should be tons of options to pick from, with varying performance levels and price points. Were people wanting Valve to make a box with an i7 and Titan and have it compete on price with consoles?

Most people were just expecting a single box with comparable/slightly better specs to the PS4/XBO in the $500 (hopeful) - $600 (realistic) price range. Basically a standardized mid tier gaming PC you could hook up to your TV and use a controller with. The standardized part is really the most important thing as people were expecting this to be Valve's push into the console market.

I personally expected pretty much what we got (didn't think it would go to Titan levels of high end though), which is why I don't understand the point in any of this.
 

Tenck

Member
Most people were just expecting a single box with comparable/slightly better specs to the PS4/XBO in the $500 (hopeful) - $600 (realistic) price range. Basically a standardized mid tier gaming PC you could hook up to your TV and use a controller with. The standardized part is really the most important thing as people were expecting this to be Valve's push into the console market.

Those were unrealistic expectations. Why anyone even thought that was going to be the case is beyond me. I don't think they've once said it themselves they were going to chase after the console market. It's all about getting people onto their ecosystem with little to no hassle (not having to make your own PC). Anyone who wants to avoid paying for a new PC can just install the Steam OS, and have more reasons to spend money on Steam, since you're literally on the store 24/7.
 

Game Guru

Member
Most people were just expecting a single box with comparable/slightly better specs to the PS4/XBO in the $500 (hopeful) - $600 (realistic) price range. Basically a standardized mid tier gaming PC you could hook up to your TV and use a controller with. The standardized part is really the most important thing as people were expecting this to be Valve's push into the console market.

Except there is already a standard for most developers to shoot for... the consoles. How many PC Gamers have said that consoles have been holding PCs back? You don't think most developers don't shoot for what the consoles can do when they are all into multiplatform parity between PC, 360, and PS3? These boxes are just to make it simpler for people to get in the Steam ecosystem, and Valve's own box will probably be on par with the PS4 and Xbox One in terms of parts.
 

Xilium

Member
Those were unrealistic expectations. Why anyone even thought that was going to be the case is beyond me. I don't think they've once said it themselves they were going to chase after the console market. It's all about getting people onto their ecosystem with little to no hassle (not having to make your own PC). Anyone who wants to avoid paying for a new PC can just install the Steam OS, and have more reasons to spend money on Steam, since you're literally on the store 24/7.

While I also think the idea of a Steam console was wishful thinking, it frankly would have been the better idea. As I stated earlier, the pre-built gaming pc market already exist so the only thing new about any of this is the assumed (but not confirmed) small form factor standardization and SteamOS, which will be more of a detriment since it pretty much guarantees an additional $100 on the price tags of these machines in order to buy and install Windows (since the overwhelming majority of PC games don't run natively on Linux). On that note, unless SteamOS offers a significant (<-Key Word) boost in performance for games, it's highly unlikely many people will use it outside of those that want to PC game on their couch (and haven't already set that up through other means). An increase of 5fps over Windows isn't going to convince very many PC gamers to deal with dual booting OSs.

Except there is already a standard for most developers to shoot for... the consoles. How many PC Gamers have said that consoles have been holding PCs back? You don't think most developers don't shoot for what the consoles can do when they are all into multiplatform parity between PC, 360, and PS3? These boxes are just to make it simpler for people to get in the Steam ecosystem, and Valve's own box will probably be on par with the PS4 and Xbox One in terms of parts.

Developing games using the consoles as a standard doesn't change the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of PC gamers out there with a myriad of hardware configurations, ranging from much lower specs than consoles to greatly overpowering them, intending to play those games.

The idea was that Valve would put out a box that, like consoles, would be capable of running any game at mid-to-high tier graphics settings (not ultra/downsampling/ect.) for the bulk of the next generation. Ideally, a Steambox user wouldn't even have to mess with graphics settings at all as developers would simply optimize their game's to the known hardware specs. That was what I was mostly hearing people envisioning - PC gaming without the hassle of dealing with individual PC parts, graphics settings, or drivers (and gaining the ability to play RTSs/MMOs/ect., mod games, participate in DD sales, ect.).

Also, Valve will not be creating a retail machine. The machines in the OP are only prototypes for the beta testers.
 

Pain

Banned
Console warriors.

See, AMD has stuff in the consoles and nvidia doesn't.

see also: HURR HURR NVIDIA SO SALTY every time an nvidia thread shows up
Well they are salty. I don't see how that's relevant though.
Although I do have a gaming PC I'm not that familiar with prices but AMD seems like the way to go if you're on a budget.
 

Not a Jellyfish

but I am a sheep
So not reading through this whole thread as it is pretty late where I am right now but any word on if the consumer can update these steam machines?

Part of me says "NO, of course not! Build your own PC instead." Other part is saying maybe because Valve is good with their customer base.
 

SamVimes

Member
So not reading through this whole thread as it is pretty late where I am right now but any word on if the consumer can update these steam machines?

Part of me says "NO, of course not! Build your own PC instead." Other part is saying maybe because Valve is good with their customer base.

It's already confirmed since the Steam Machines announcement that you can do whatever you want with the hardware, including updating it.
 

Alien Bob

taken advantage of my ass
So not reading through this whole thread as it is pretty late where I am right now but any word on if the consumer can update these steam machines?

Part of me says "NO, of course not! Build your own PC instead." Other part is saying maybe because Valve is good with their customer base.

They'll even let the lucky 300 completely mess around with the prototypes:

The prototype machine is a high-end, high-performance box, built out of off-the-shelf PC parts. It is also fully upgradable, allowing any user to swap out the GPU, hard drive, CPU, even the motherboard if you really want to. Apart from the custom enclosure, anyone can go and build exactly the same machine by shopping for components and assembling it themselves. And we expect that at least a few people will do just that. (We'll also share the source CAD files for our enclosure, in case people want to replicate it as well.)
 

goomba

Banned
awesome , running an open os on open hardware optimised for gaming. No windows licence fee.

I hope this destroys playstation and xbox's closed systems...
 

Randdalf

Member
Sounds like they're already sending out "invites"? Somebody I know just said he was picked as a Steam Machine beta candidate.
 
Hmmmm....Doritos Steambox fueled by Dew Ed debuting at the VGAs? So Valve is gonna license the OS and the controller to manufacturers?
 

Anteater

Member
Uh... who are these supposed to be for, exactly?

I would get one if I didn't already build my own computer, my friend will probably buy one since he doesn't have a desktop.

i will give steamOS and the controller a try though assuming the controller will be available in most retail stores.
 
I don't see it as possible frankly. Maybe it's a typo. A micro atX motherboard would take up 10" x 10" which is basically the entire floor of the case filled. Titan is 10.5" long and 4,5" high, and about an inch(?) thick. Even assuming it is lying flat you'd need to flip it 90 degrees, which would fill half the case and probably block ram or CPU sockets. Then you have nowhere to put the PSU which would need a quarter if the case to itself.

Might they try with a mini-ITX motherboard? Some kind of custom PSU?

This PC is a similar size.
small_bolt-dimensions.jpg


And if you look at the inside you can see how it could be reduced further quite easily with less cables and better engineering.

small_digital-storm-bolt-13.JPG
 

Durante

Member
This PC is a similar size.
Similar yes, but it's larger in each dimension and has almost 50% more volume. At those small sizes that's a significant difference.

Those dimensions really seem in the just-barely-possible category for me, with modular off-the-shelf components. And I have to wonder what effects this will have on thermals and, by extension, acoustics.
 

kartu

Banned
Guys, what did I miss here?

  • SteamMachine is an Intel/nVidia gaming PC, with 200-400+ watt power consumption
  • They'll cost 799$+
  • They are supposed to land next to a TV
  • They run Linux, which means that at the moment, out of about 3000 games available on steam you can play about 100.

DAFUQ?
Why would I buy it?
Why would I buy a powerful gaming PC and install Linux on it?


Currently Nvidia has GPUs that outclass or at least compete on even ground with AMD pretty in much in every single relevant price range and it's far more reliable when it comes to support and overall software compatibility.

Well, name nVidia card that beats 7870 yet costs on par.
 

SparkTR

Member
Guys, what did I miss here?

  • SteamMachine is an Intel/nVidia gaming PC, with 200-400+ watt power consumption
  • They'll cost 799$+
  • They are supposed to land next to a TV
  • They run Linux, which means that at the moment, out of about 3000 games available on steam you can play about 100.

DAFUQ?
Why would I buy it?
Why would I buy a powerful gaming PC and install Linux on it?

Ideally they'll be cheaper than custom built PCs of the same specs, games will be optimised for them leading to better frames, there's no hassle for people who want something like a console, and there'll be lower end streaming solutions for people who already have PCs

If you've got a Windows PC now and are invested in PC gaming, these won't seem that attractive. But if you don't already have that and are too confused with building PCs (like a lot of console users) this'll be a nice alternative.
 

kartu

Banned
Ideally they'll be cheaper than custom built PCs of the same specs, games will be optimised for them leading to better frames, there's no hassle for people who want something like a console, and there'll be lower end streaming solutions for people who already have PCs
Are there many companies that plan to develop games for Linux nowadays?
 

Sentenza

Member
Guys, what did I miss here?
SteamMachine is an Intel/nVidia gaming PC, with 200-400+ watt power consumption
I'm not sure what's the problem with that?
Why would I want anything for gaming that *isn't* am Intel/Nvidia machine?

They'll cost 799$+
No one has any clue about how much they will cost.

They are supposed to land next to a TV
...Or wherever you want to put them.
They run Linux, which means that at the moment, out of about 3000 games available on steam you can play about 100.
Why are you even talking about how many games are available on Linux NOW, when the point is how many will be when they will start releasing this thing?
And if you really want Windows, you can put in WIndows.

DAFUQ?
Why would I buy it?
Well, then just don't? Jesus Christ, this is really becoming obnoxious.

Well, name nVidia card that beats 7870 yet costs on par.
The GTX660 is in the same price and power range.

Are there many companies that plan to develop games for Linux nowadays?
There are many that will start doing it, eventually.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Guys, what did I miss here?

  • SteamMachine is an Intel/nVidia gaming PC, with 200-400+ watt power consumption


  • this is not accurate -- some Steam Machines models will be Intel/nVidia. Others might not be. Some have 200-400+ watt power consumption. Others will not.

    [*]They'll cost 799$+

    this is not accurate -- some Steam Machines may have this pricepoint, we don't know. Others will not.

    [*]They are supposed to land next to a TV

    this is optional -- you can put a Steam Machine wherever you want, just as you can put a PC wherever you want, because a Steam Machine is a PC.

    [*]They run Linux

    this is optional -- it's an open system, you can install any OS you want. The majority of them are likely to be sold with Linux, however this does not appear to be a requirement. We have no idea yet.

    which means that at the moment

    they're not available at the moment.

    out of about 3000 games available on steam you can play about 100.

    this is not accurate doubly; the figure steam has is well below 3000, the figure linux can play is well above 100, and the system uses streaming to compensate

    Why would I buy it?

    no one cares what you do with your money, so don't buy it
 

Morzak

Member
]Ideally they'll be cheaper than custom built PCs of the same specs, games will be optimised for them leading to better frame[/B]s, there's no hassle for people who want something like a console, and there'll be lower end streaming solutions for people who already have PCs

If you've got a Windows PC now and are invested in PC gaming, these won't seem that attractive. But if you don't already have that and are too confused with building PCs (like a lot of console users) this'll be a nice alternative.

Yes in a perfect Dreamworld, Devs will not optimize for a fringe platform if they even release a version for it, It would all hinge on the adaption rate of Steam OS and give me a good reason for a existing PC gamer to change to Steam OS, I would lose 90% of my library..... If PC gamers just use a cheap Steam OS device to stream, devs would still need to put more effort in the Win version since Steam OS is only a streamer.

With the model they are going for, you can expect the hardware to be the same price as any other OEM Gaming PC (Those OEMs like to make money from the rigs they sell......), the price drop would be the windows licence which honestly isn't exactly a huge part of a 800$+ device. Oh and if you would like a decent library (a huge selling point of PC gaming) you will have to buy that Win 7/8 yourself and set it up....

And as long as AMD is not fully on board with Driver support for Linux, a good part of the userbase will have no incentive whatsoever to change.

I feel it's a solution to a business problem, not a solution for consumer needs.
 
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