Support NeoGAF

[Enco]

Shame there are pretty much no good apps.

The app store is the lowest selling point MS has. It's pretty embarrassing and completely useless.

 

[TheLegendary]

I've been on Windows 8 since day one and there are very few good apps. Jetpac Joyride, Wordament and Spartan Assault for games. Social media apps like StumbleUpon, Twitter and Reddit. That's about it. If this is true, hopefully it will flesh out the market. It's mostly garbage right now.

There are a rare few good apps currently, but yes, this will definitely be a mutually beneficial setup and leverage that Sony just cant match

 

[Redshirt]

I think it's definitely the potential that's exciting rather than the apps that are currently available.

 

[sja_626]

It's coming sooner or later. Hard to believe Dell would be the ones that would announce it or that it will be available at launch though.

To start with I think they'll just make it easy to port W8 apps to Xbox One. But full unification, where developers create one app that a user purchases once, that targets all platforms and syncs across them, is the end goal surely.

The unification of tablet and desktop OS with Windows 8 was the beginning. I now feel with Windows 8.1 that they've done a pretty good job of it actually.

Next things to happen will be:

- Unification of Windows and Windows Phone (I was surprised when this didn't happen with Win8 but it's coming)
- Kinect starts to become a part of Windows 8 metro apps
- Windows Store merges with Xbox App Store (this may include some games, but the Xbox One Game Store will stay separate for purpose built Xbox One games).

So in the end we'll have 3 classes of device running Windows. Each might look a bit different on the surface but each will have the same core and run the same apps (although not every app will support every device - just like iOS and Android)

- Metro only Phones/Tablets: touch is primary interface. ("Pure" Windows - for basic needs)
- PCs and tablets with full desktop support: keyboard/mouse and touch are both well supported, gamepad well supported for games, and Kinect support is there as well. (Windows augmented with classic desktop - for productivity)
- Xbox One: heavy focus on gamepad and Kinect, but keyboard and mouse will be supported also and maybe touch via SmartGlass. (Windows augmented with Xbox - for gaming and entertainment)

To be honest I think this will also lead into an "upgrade cycle" for Xbox One. We'll see new form factors with better hardware on several occasions. The game environment will remain constant, so proper Xbox One games will run the same on any Xbox One hardware through the life of the platform. But newer versions will run more apps faster. And potentially in 2017 or something we'll have a situation where some of the newest apps will no longer support the original 2013 Xbox One, but all Xbox One games will still work.

Eventually we'll get Xbox Two that will have a new game environment for a new generation of console games but will carry across the existing Windows Store from Xbox One (and all the other devices).

 

[TheLegendary]

It's coming sooner or later. Hard to believe Dell would be the ones that would announce it or that it will be available at launch though.

To start with I think they'll just make it easy to port W8 apps to Xbox One. But full unification, where developers create one app that a user purchases once, that targets all platforms and syncs across them, is the end goal surely.

The unification of tablet and desktop OS with Windows 8 was the beginning. I now feel with Windows 8.1 that they've done a pretty good job of it actually.

Next things to happen will be:

- Unification of Windows and Windows Phone (I was surprised when this didn't happen with Win8 but it's coming)
- Kinect starts to become a part of Windows 8 metro apps
- Windows Store merges with Xbox App Store (this may include some games, but the Xbox One Game Store will stay separate for purpose built Xbox One games).

So in the end we'll have 3 classes of device running Windows. Each might look a bit different on the surface but each will have the same core and run the same apps (although not every app will support every device - just like iOS and Android)

- Metro only Phones/Tablets: touch is primary interface. ("Pure" Windows - for basic needs)
- PCs and tablets with full desktop support: keyboard/mouse and touch are both well supported, gamepad well supported for games, and Kinect support is there as well. (Windows augmented with classic desktop - for productivity)
- Xbox One: heavy focus on gamepad and Kinect, but keyboard and mouse will be supported also and maybe touch via SmartGlass. (Windows augmented with Xbox - for gaming and entertainment)

To be honest I think this will also lead into an "upgrade cycle" for Xbox One. We'll see new form factors with better hardware on several occasions. The game environment will remain constant, so proper Xbox One games will run the same on any Xbox One hardware through the life of the platform. But newer versions will run more apps faster. And potentially in 2017 or something we'll have a situation where some of the newest apps will no longer support the original 2013 Xbox One, but all Xbox One games will still work.

Eventually we'll get Xbox Two that will have a new game environment for a new generation of console games but will carry across the existing Windows Store from Xbox One (and all the other devices).

I agree with this. No different than a game running on an iPad and an iPod. Only problem is how relatively complex the APU is

 

[PG2G]

A lot of people are focusing on the quality of the apps in the Windows Store right now. You should just consider the bigger picture and what non-game Indies will be able to do on the console.

Its exciting stuff and will push the entire Windows ecosystem forward

 

[mitchman]

Anything that runs in RT/Metro should run just fine here.

Doubtful if done using C++ as it's compiled to native code (RT is ARM). Possibly if done using C# or html.

 

[PG2G]

Doubtful if done using C++ as it's compiled to native code (RT is ARM). Possibly if done using C# or html.

I have been following this stuff a while and remember only a couple of instances where an app was x86 or ARM and not both. The fact that C++ is native just means you'll need to compile an ARM version as far as i know. Don't think its a concern

 

[TheLegendary]

A lot of people are focusing on the quality of the apps in the Windows Store right now. You should just consider the bigger picture and what non-game Indies will be able to do on the console.

Its exciting stuff and will push the entire Windows ecosystem forward

Once theyre unified it really opens up a lot of opportunities that are totally unique. They've already leveraged their cloud computing capabilities, now they're leveraging their OS functionality as well. As nice as it was that Xbox was secluded from the rest of the company, I think taking advantage of the rest of the strengths of the company will be compelling in a lot of interesting ways that Sony can't really match.

 

[mitchman]

I have been following this stuff a while and remember only a couple of instances where an app was x86 or ARM and not both. The fact that C++ is native just means you'll need to compile an ARM version as far as i know. Don't think its a concern

C++ is fully supported on Win 8 and compiles to native code, as opposed to C# which compiles for the CLR. So no, there is no compatibility between ARM and x86 for C++. Using C++ might not be the common case, but it doesn't change that particular fact.

 

[PG2G]

C++ is fully supported on Win 8 and compiles to native code, as opposed to C# which compiles for the CLR. So no, there is no compatibility between ARM and x86 for C++. Using C++ might not be the common case, but it doesn't change that particular fact.

I'm not saying they are compatible, I am saying the developers just need to submit an ARM build as well.

I don't know the breakdown in languages used by apps, but its pretty likely that a lot of the games are written in C++. C++ compiling to native code has been a non issue in the marketplace so far.

 

[aronmayo2]

First thing that came into my mind. lol

There are actually more apps by far for the Windows Phone ecosystem than in the Windows Store. The phone platform is doing a lot better than the Windows Store in terms of getting major third party support. Obviously "desktop" apps are still king.

 

[spwolf]

Shame there are pretty much no good apps.

The app store is the lowest selling point MS has. It's pretty embarrassing and completely useless.

Win RT app store is useless right now because nobody is using WinRT on their PCs, nor they should.

But once XB1 comes out and has support for it and brings millions of devices into the fold, devs will create apps...

 

[Protomanx13]

Can you imagine if we can use the remote desktop app? Then, that would be awesome if we can remote desktop to the box one to play game though the lag will be insane

 

[Mael]

Great the store no one want to use is getting on the system that advertised how they wanted to screw consumers.
If you're interested in MSFT ecosystem that's a good thing, otherwise....

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

There are actually more apps by far for the Windows Phone ecosystem than in the Windows Store. The phone platform is doing a lot better than the Windows Store in terms of getting major third party support. Obviously "desktop" apps are still king.

This is completely false. The Windows Store has almost the same number of apps as Windows Phone in a single year which means the Windows store is growing much faster than phone. Also there are many big name apps that are available for Windows 8 that are not on Windows Phone.

180K WP8 apps vs. 150K Windows 8 apps. (3 years vs. 1 year).

Win RT app store is useless right now because nobody is using WinRT on their PCs, nor they should.

But once XB1 comes out and has support for it and brings millions of devices into the fold, devs will create apps...

Nothing you wrote makes any sense.

WinRT is not useless, it is essential for tablets and touch screen PCs.
How do you know what people are using?

Windows 8 has sold around 150M copies already yet a few million Xbox sales is what will make the store successful? Surface will probably sell more lifetime than Xbox One, but I wouldn't say either one makes or breaks the app store. Tablet/touch PC sales will define the platform.

 

[SwiftDeath]

So can I do excel work on my XB1?

 

[wapplew]

I like the idea of unify all MS platform but will they support backward compatible to avoid WP7 cannot upgrade to WP8 condition.
So far their idea of unify actually just slap a somewhat unify OS within another OS like win8+winRT, xbox OS+winRT. maybe WP8+win RT for the future?

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

I like the idea of unify all MS platform but will they support backward compatible to avoid WP7 cannot upgrade to WP8 condition.

Almost all WP7 apps run on WP8.

WP7 didn't use WinRT or the Windows NT kernel. Windows Phone 8 is the first time Windows proper was ever really ported to a phone. It was a major technical breakthrough.

 

[nick nacc]

Does this mean Xbmc is back on an xbox again.....dear god.

Won't it be really hard to stop people from modding consoles with a back door like this?

 

[NinjaCatfish]

I could not care less about most Windows 8 apps on my TV, except for Plex.

Being able to run Plex through my Xbox One instead of a jailbroken 720p Apple TV will be so goddamn great.

 

[Phife Dawg]

Why not the other way?

Yeah, this. But they want to be more like Apple, sell hardware and provide an ecosystem, unfortunately wouldn't really fit their current strategy. It's an interesting thought though: with their OS and their renewed hardware activities they're in a "neither here nor there" situation. I think they will have eventually step into one direction if they want to do a proper transition.

If true, then MS PR/marketing has really messed up over the past months.

You've got tens of thousands of W8 apps, a very strong ecosystem that's only growing, and you don't mention it as one of your selling points, only revealed through a bullet point?

Are we talking about the same thing?

 

[wizzbang]

Can someone give an example of how this would be useful. I'm struggling to think.

This is absoloutely fucking huge, I can't believe how many short sighted replies there are on page 1 alone.
It's seriously fucking game changer level shit, like smartphone vs dumbphone level stuff.

 

[Mael]

Nothing you wrote makes any sense.

WinRT is not useless, it is essential for tablets and touch screen PCs.
How do you know what people are using?

Windows 8 has sold around 150M copies already yet a few million Xbox sales is what will make the store successful? Surface will probably sell more lifetime than Xbox One, but I wouldn't say either one makes or breaks the app store. Tablet/touch PC sales will define the platform.

WinRT is not useless?
Did you miss Ballmer being fired, MSFT being left with humongous inventory of Surface RT, OEMs backing Android over WinRT and all the other good news WinRT got this year?

 

[Quasar]

I could not care less about most Windows 8 apps on my TV, except for Plex.

Being able to run Plex through my Xbox One instead of a jailbroken 720p Apple TV will be so goddamn great.

That probably would be a system seller for me. I continue to jump around trying to find devices to use for this purpose and I'm not really happy with any of them. Seems like the XBone would be beef enough to handle the job well, something that other devices haven't been (I've tried both a AppleTV and a Ouya). Of course I'm unsure how good the Win8 client is. It seems pretty far behind in terms of development compared to other clients.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

WinRT is not useless?
Did you miss Ballmer being fired, MSFT being left with humongous inventory of Surface RT, OEMs backing Android over WinRT and all the other good news WinRT got this year?

Are we talking about WinRT (Windows Runtime - the new application architecture for Windows 8) or Windows RT (Windows 8 for ARM)?

 

[Mael]

Are we talking about WinRT (Windows Runtime - the new application architecture for Windows 8) or Windows RT (Windows 8 for ARM)?

I'm assuming we're talking about the bold one.
The other one would be like discussing wether or not JRE is doing well or not.
More than pointless.
And seriously the naming conventions at MSFT is as horrible as ever.
After all he's talking about talets and really only MSFT is interested in making people buy Windows based tablets these days.

 

[NemesisPrime]

C++ is fully supported on Win 8 and compiles to native code, as opposed to C# which compiles for the CLR. So no, there is no compatibility between ARM and x86 for C++. Using C++ might not be the common case, but it doesn't change that particular fact.

Dude... C++ on ARM is just compiled to ARM machine code. It works on RT without problems.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

Watch a movie on Netflix, stop and pick up again on your tablet on the airplane.

That's not really a good example, considering Netflix already saves your progress across devices. If I stop mid-show watching an episode of a show on my phone on Netflix, then start it up on my PS3, Netflix itself knows where I left off.

 

[Entrecôte]

This is absoloutely fucking huge, I can't believe how many short sighted replies there are on page 1 alone.
It's seriously fucking game changer level shit, like smartphone vs dumbphone level stuff.

Care to give a few examples? Right now the W8 app ecosystem is tiny and has very little support.

One thing I can think of that would be very appreciated is a native media player/scraper that manages to play all formats on the box itself instead of transcoding half of them which is what plex might be doing for a while.

 

[crozier]

If the Office Suite works on X1 then MS might have themselves another customer.

 

[Mael]

Care to give a few examples? Right now the W8 app ecosystem is tiny and has very little support.

One thing I can think of that would be very appreciated is a native media player/scraper that manages to play all formats on the box itself instead of transcoding half of them which is what plex might be doing for a while.

Well VLC is coming...sometimes soon...we promise!

 

[Pegasus Actual]

I just want freakin' XBMC on the new Xbox. Kind of sad that my OG Xbox was a million times more useful than my PS3 and 360 as a media player.

 

[Ulumsk]

Could potentially be huge news down the line if/when W8 apps take off. Right now it's not.

 

[Alx]

If the Office Suite works on X1 then MS might have themselves another customer.

It would be an impressive feature, but I'm not sure I would have much use of Office on my home TV. Maybe to watch a few Powerpoint presentations that I wouldn't want to edit, but apart from that Office is best used... in an office. I mean you need at least a keyboard for convenient editing of the documents.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Care to give a few examples? Right now the W8 app ecosystem is tiny and has very little support.

One thing I can think of that would be very appreciated is a native media player/scraper that manages to play all formats on the box itself instead of transcoding half of them which is what plex might be doing for a while.

Home automation/control.

Have a nest thermostat?

Those special dimmer switches/light bulbs?

Basically if a device/electronics/appliance is wifi ready, you can control it through your xbox, or get notifications or what not.

Personally, i think that is why spec's were sacrificed in order to include kinect.

 

[Mael]

It would be an impressive feature, but I'm not sure I would have much use of Office on my home TV. Maybe to watch a few Powerpoint presentations that I wouldn't want to edit, but apart from that Office is best used... in an office. I mean you need at least a keyboard for convenient editing of the documents.

That's when you take out your tablet and use it to connect to your xbox and it displays a keyboard or something?
Depending on MSFT's API it might not even be hard to do.

 

[clubstoic]

What is a Windows app? An application restricted to a centralized source? Like Apple iOS? I thought Windows apps could come from anywhere. Ya know, .exe's.

 

[Mael]

What is a Windows app? An application restricted to a centralized source? Like Apple iOS? I thought Windows apps could come from anywhere. Ya know, .exe's.

Not anymore.
Windows app only come from the ghetto store from MSFT.
Only on Windows 8.

 

[Alx]

That's when you take out your tablet and use it to connect to your xbox and it displays a keyboard or something?
Depending on MSFT's API it might not even be hard to do.

Well, my tablet already has Office on it. And a keyboard, too. I suppose a better scenario would be to have everything running on the tablet and only send the image to the TV (I know some device do it, never tried it on mine).
Maybe a good speech-to-text feature through kinect would be a positive aspect of running Office on an Xbox, but it's the only one I can think of. And even then, I don't know what kind of documents would be better written that way.

 

[spwolf]

Nothing you wrote makes any sense.

WinRT is not useless, it is essential for tablets and touch screen PCs.
How do you know what people are using?

Windows 8 has sold around 150M copies already yet a few million Xbox sales is what will make the store successful? Surface will probably sell more lifetime than Xbox One, but I wouldn't say either one makes or breaks the app store. Tablet/touch PC sales will define the platform.

You dont seem to understand what i wrote. I said WinRT is useless on PC - PC not tablets. Problem is that they dont sell many WinRT tablets either.

Reason you dont have many apps in the WinRT store is because people are not using and not paying for them, so developers are not making them.

Out of those 150M, how many actually use WinRT? I would guess very small amount.

Even Surface - Pro is what sells and thats a PC, most people use desktop apps there not WinRT. And Surface is not selling well.

There is no reason for anyone to WinRT on their PC, it is slow and annoying.

 

[Doffen]

What is a Windows app? An application restricted to a centralized source? Like Apple iOS? I thought Windows apps could come from anywhere. Ya know, .exe's.

the .exe's your talking about is called legacy software. The Windows 8 apps are more like iOS, yes.

 

[mitchman]

Dude... C++ on ARM is just compiled to ARM machine code. It works on RT without problems.

Yes, didn't I just say that? I just wanted to emphasize that you can't take a x86 native code binary and run it on ARM without recompilation.

 

[JaggedSac]

I could not care less about most Windows 8 apps on my TV, except for Plex.

Being able to run Plex through my Xbox One instead of a jailbroken 720p Apple TV will be so goddamn great.

A million times yes. I use Rokus as my Plex clients on all my TVs and I have to say, I am tired of having an underpowered device handle the UI.

 

[Daishogun]

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but W8 apps are designed for a) touchscreen, b) mouse and keyboard. I'm not really sure how well it would translate to an Xbox, even with Kinect.

 

[shiftplusone]

Netflix on Windows 8 is subpar for a tablet experience and just plain awful on a desktop

I can't imagine what it's like with a controller if they try to leverage"make one version" for devs

Hopefully the xbone still gets native apps

 

[JaggedSac]

Netflix on Windows 8 is subpar for a tablet experience and just plain awful on a desktop

Just curious, but why do you think that? Looks quite nice to me. Is responsive and loads fairly quickly. Much better than using the browser on a desktop or laptop. Same for Hulu. Works well on a tablet too.

 

[AlanzTalon]

A million times yes. I use Rokus as my Plex clients on all my TVs and I have to say, I am tired of having an underpowered device handle the UI.

oh man, this is the goddamn truth. If i could pipe my PLEX stuff right into Xbox i could essentially put my HTPC into a static LiveTV mode and put it in the HDMI in and be good to go on the "All in input one" thing they got going on.

Also get my GiantBomb up in there.

 

[MJLord]

Good for them. Not for me.

 

[shiftplusone]

Just curious, but why do you think that? Looks quite nice to me. Is responsive and loads fairly quickly. Much better than using the browser on a desktop or laptop. Same for Hulu. Works well on a tablet too.

Well to be fair the Netflix experience when specifically not watching anything is pretty bad on any device but i really dislike horizontal scrolling through content and big ass icons for the shows/movies and finding my list and stuff is not a good experience with a mouse