Support NeoGAF

[Kinthalis]

This is why I don't bother with PC gaming. My gaming time is limited, and the last thing I want to do is fuck around trying to get a game to function.

I borrowed my buddies PS3 in order to play TLOU earlier this year. (I ended up playing 1/2 way through it, and just watching the rest on Youtube - better experience).

The differences:

- PS3 -
Got home, and turned on PS3.
Waited...
Update required!
Waited a LONG time.
Finally, load game.
Waited...
Finally in game, ready to play.

- PC -
Got home, and wiggled the mouse.
Pc wakes in .5 seconds. See that it has installed updates while I was away. Cool.
Click on steam game.
game loads in 2 seconds.
Play game.
Get IM from friend to play L4D2.
Close current game and load L4D2 in 3 seconds.
Play game with friend.

I too have too little time now a days to deal with all the console bullshit

 

[patapuf]

He's counting everything. Facebook, Browser Games, AAA, F2P, just EVERYTHING. And he's very right. Those numbers dwarf everything.

AAA games however are a different story. However I wish certain fanatics (not directed at you opiate) who are more (or only) AAA focused and use graphics as their first argument in heated debates often desperate cling onto those total numbers because the reality of AAA sales (on PC) sometimes doesn't look very exciting.

People also often ignore that something like WOW costs a LOT and is just as AAA as Call of Duty.

 

[Arcteryx]

*shrug*

To some extent I find these issues "fun": after all, they largely were the driving force behind me pursuing CompSci and having a genuine love for computers.

That said, for someone new to the industry(3 years is pretty new I'd say OP), I can understand the frustration, but it will get better with time as you learn little tricks/abilities to troubleshoot on your own. Not to mention the fact we have Google and VAST databases of tweaks for years upon years of games(and various forums/GAF to bounce ideas/fixes off of).

If it's any consolation: things are MUCH MUCH better than they used to be. I can remember using shitty ass dial-up to scope out issues I was having with games and taking weeks to find the one little 0 or 1 to change in a .ini file.

As annoying as it can be, some of my most enjoyable PC gaming moments came from poorly designed games. I can remember having a blast with Trespasser despite it's shitty performance/general clunk and spending a good week or two troubleshooting some .ini files to get it running ok.

 

[Kinthalis]

He's counting everything. Facebook, Browser Games, AAA, F2P, just EVERYTHING. And he's very right. Those numbers dwarf everything.

AAA games however are a different story. However I wish certain fanatics (not directed at you opiate) who are more (or only) AAA focused and use graphics as their first argument in heated debates often desperate cling onto those total numbers because the reality of AAA sales (on PC) sometimes doesn't look very exciting.

Wrong. We're talking MMO + retail + digital sales. Not browser games.

And I was wrong. It's larger than any single console AND about 3/4's of the revenue the xbox, the PS3, AND handhelds bring in.

 

[Of All Trades]

Wrong. We're talking MMO + retail + digital sales. Not browser games.

And I was wrong. It's larger than any single console AND about 3/4's of the revenue the xbox, the PS3, AND handhelds bring in.

Where are you getting numbers that specifically exclude browser games (which cover many genres)?

 

[MogCakes]

Wrong. We're talking MMO + retail + digital sales. Not browser games.

And I was wrong. It's larger than any single console AND about 3/4's of the revenue the xbox, the PS3, AND handhelds bring in.

Source required.

I borrowed my buddies PS3 in order to play TLOU earlier this year. (I ended up playing 1/2 way through it, and just watching the rest on Youtube - better experience).

The differences:

- PS3 -
Got home, and turned on PS3.
Waited...
Update required!
Waited a LONG time.
Finally, load game.
Waited...
Finally in game, ready to play.

- PC -
Got home, and wiggled the mouse.
Pc wakes in .5 seconds. See that it has installed updates while I was away. Cool.
Click on steam game.
game loads in 2 seconds.
Play game.
Get IM from friend to play L4D2.
Close current game and load L4D2 in 3 seconds.
Play game with friend.

I too have too little time now a days to deal with all the console bullshit

And when your console is up to date and you don't have a PC that boots from an SSD, you can get into the game pretty damn fast as well. Bias, how does it work?

 

[hlhbk]

He's already made his position clear. He enjoys the benefits of PC gaming (customization, performance, freedom) but is chaffed by the hurdles it can sometimes present in usability. He's over exaggerated some of his claims, but that's his position. I don't find it particularly disagreeable.

I do find his claim that PC gaming isn't taken seriously to be disagreeable however.

Thanks for anwsering. Here is the thing you can't have both! You can't have freedom and customization and have a stream lined experience. It just can't happen. Yes things can be made easier but when a developer has to build their games to work on thousands of different hardware of course there will always need to be tweaks and troubleshooting to get certain setups working.

All of that doesn't even take into consideration the most dangerous and unpredictable part of the equasion: The clueless ender user that just wants it to work while having the benefits and none of the work involved. The end user that installed malware without even knowing it, the end user that doesn't take the time to educate themselves on their PC even though they make the choice and want freedom and customization.

It would be like buying a high end sports car, instead of a compact economy car and expecting that certain up keep wouldn't be expected if you went the sports car route. It's insane.

In the end I hope people like the OP realize the day that everything is streamlined is when freedom and customization is gone. It's when we have uniform hardware, and the O/S and games are locked down to a point that all of the benefits of pc gaming are gone. When that happens the very large PC base already in place will be gone, because why pay more money when all the benefits are gone?

 

[Opiate]

...What?

He's joking. Here's how this conversations typically go:

Person A: PC Gaming is a niche.
Person B: Actually PC Gaming isn't niche; it's the single largest platform in the industry by revenue.
Person A: Well, I just meant hardcore games. I don't care about casual games.
Person B: Even then, the PC is huge. Hardcore Chinese and Korean players provide enormous revenue via MMOs, MOBAs, and other genres.
Person A: Well, I just meant Western Hardcore games.
Person B: Even then, indie games on PC are flourishing. Indies have a much stronger presence on PC than they do any console. The same could be said of MMOs.
Person A: Well, I just mean big budget, Western Hardcore games that aren't MMOs.

And at that point, the argument would probably be correct: consoles are bigger in that specific arena. And for some people, the big budget western blockbuster is all that matters or comprises something like 90% of their game time, so the enormous number of indie games or Chinese MMOs or casual browser games are essentially invisible to them.

From their perspective, consoles really are bigger, as long as all the stuff they don't personally care about doesn't exist. But first you have to pin people down so they realize they are creating a very specific frame of reference.

 

[njean777]

Wrong. We're talking MMO + retail + digital sales. Not browser games.

And I was wrong. It's larger than any single console AND about 3/4's of the revenue the xbox, the PS3, AND handhelds bring in.

Where is your proof?

 

[BobTheSpy]

I actually never played The Witcher 2 due to a PC problem - I always got frame skipping, no matter what solution I tried, so I eventually gave up and just didn't play the game. I'm guessing it's because I have an AMD graphics card (HD 7950), so if I ever upgrade I'll try to play the game again.

 

[MogCakes]

Thanks for anwsering. Here is the thing you can't have both! You can't have freedom and customization and have a stream lined experience. It just can't happen. Yes things can be made easier but when a developer has to build their games to work on thousands of different hardware of course there will always need to be tweaks and troubleshooting to get certain setups working.

All of that doesn't even take into consideration the most dangerous and unpredictable part of the equasion: The clueless ender user that just wants it to work while having the benefits and none of the work involved. The end user that installed malware without even knowing it, the end user that doesn't take the time to educate themselves on their PC even though they make the choice and want freedom and customization.

It would be like buying a high end sports car, instead of a compact economy car and expecting that certain up keep wouldn't be expected if you went the sports car route. It's insane.

In the end I hope people like the OP realize the day that everything is streamlined is when freedom and customization is gone. It's when we have uniform hardware, and the O/S and games are locked down to a point that all of the benefits of pc gaming are gone. When that happens the very large PC base already in place will be gone, because why pay more money when all the benefits are gone?

Of course. But he seems to be venting in part from his frustration at getting a game running recently. I don't find that particularly bad either. Though the way he went about it is questionable.

 

[angular graphics]

He's joking. Here's how this conversations typically go:

Person A: PC Gaming is a niche.
Person B: Actually PC Gaming isn't niche; it's the single largest platform in the industry by revenue.
Person A: Well, I just meant hardcore gamers. Casual gamers don't count.
Person B: Even then, the PC is huge. Hardcore Chinese and Korean players provide enormous revenue via MMOs, MOBAs, and other genres.
Person A: Well, I just meant Western Hardcore gamers.
Person B: Even then, indie games on PC are flourishing. Indies have a much stronger presence on PC than they do any console. The same could be said of MMOs.
Person A: Well, I just mean big budget, Western Hardcore games that aren't indies and aren't MMOs.

And at that point, the argument would probably be correct: consoles are bigger in that specific arena. And for some people, the big budget western blockbuster is all that matters or comprises something like 90% of their game time, so the enormous number of indie games or Chinese MMOs or casual browser games are essentially invisible to them.

From their perspective, consoles really are bigger, as long as all the stuff they don't personally care about doesn't exist.

aka the "Valve makes no games" bs argument:

"Does Valve even make games anymore, lol? There was HL2 EP2 in 2007... and... nothing since then? Where is HL3?"

 

[Kinthalis]

And when your console is up to date and you don't have a PC that boots from an SSD, you can get into the game pretty damn fast as well. Bias, how does it work?

Ask the OP.

 

[Leb]

And at that point, the argument would probably be correct: consoles are bigger in that specific arena. And for some people, the big budget western blockbuster is all that matters or comprises something like 90% of their game time

And ironically, most of these games have better IQ and framerate on the PC, but...

I actually never played The Witcher 2 due to a PC problem - I always got frame skipping, no matter what solution I tried, so I eventually gave up and just didn't play the game. I'm guessing it's because I have an AMD graphics card (HD 7950), so if I ever upgrade I'll try to play the game again.

Wait until you've got a super good card and run it with Ubersampling -- the game is absolutely fantastic and it looks simply amazing.

 

[iamshadowlark]

He's counting everything. Facebook, Browser Games, AAA, F2P, just EVERYTHING. And he's very right. Those numbers dwarf everything.

AAA games however are a different story. However I wish certain fanatics (not directed at you opiate) who are more (or only) AAA focused and use graphics as their first argument in heated debates often desperate cling onto those total numbers because the reality of AAA sales (on PC) sometimes doesn't look very exciting.

Naw, PC gaming as a whole is about a 20 billion dollar business(2012 data). Total gaming revenue minus tablet/phone gaming was at around 57 billion

I don't really care about revenue. Maybe it's larger, maybe it's not, there's no way to tell without transparency into free to play games.


The thread topic makes a grand statement about being "taken seriously". Quite obviously, PC Gaming doesn't need any help in its ability to be "taken seriously".

Most games come out for it. It has the biggest games in the world. It has the most people playing. It has by far the largest professionally competitive scene.


What I want to know is what the OP means by being "taken seriously", since all the obvious metrics have been ruled out. Is revenue the only thing? That somehow once more people start spending more money on PC games it's "serious" vs. where it is today?


I guess? Seems pretty silly to me though.

I would guess op is focusing on AAA gaming, which generally requires a bit more investment.

 

[SneakyStephan]

And when it's up to date I can play within a minute. The updates are definitely a pain in the ass and unwelcome though.

no you can't, it takes far (far far far) longer for me to boot up my ps3 , get in the game and start a race in gran turismo for example than it does in any racing game on my pc
it's like that for every single game
loading times on consoles suck so bad.

it's one of my biggest annoyances, one of the few things the next gen consoles will hopefully finally close the gap with pc a bit now that they have more ram and mandatory installs, it's only about 15 years late...

I didn't say all games would be up in a minute. If you hate the wait that much, ditch your PS3.

Ironic, you just used it as an argument for why you prefer consoles
you were wrong and now you pull a 'no u' on me
wonderful

 

[MogCakes]

Ask the OP.

I'm pretty clearly talking about you and your remark specifically.

no you can't, it takes far (far far far) longer for me to boot up my ps3 , get in the game and start a race in gran turismo for example than it does in any racing game on my pc
it's like that for every single game
loading times on consoles suck so bad.

I didn't say all games would be up in a minute. If you hate the wait that much, ditch your PS3.

 

[KingSnake]

So is this in preparation for the upcoming launch or it's just passion?

 

[MutonCommander]

Where is your proof?

Here: http://www.newzoo.com/infographics/global-games-market-report-infographics/

 

[Kinthalis]

Where is your proof?

Warning pdf:

http://www.newzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/us_summary_deck_new2.pdf

 

[Dahaka]

From their perspective, consoles really are bigger, as long as all the stuff they don't personally care about doesn't exist.

True, but in all the ever-lasting feuds between PC and console on NeoGAF the battle ignores almost everything except AAA because at the very core it's all mostly about AAA in these forums. They get the longest threads, the biggest hype, the most views. It's about who's getting the better/more exclusive AAA or doing better in AAA sales and thus deserve more/better, and in that case I expect more honesty among very loud parts of the PC crow who think the broken model that is AAA does not need any consoles at all or is even crippled by them. I personally don't think that this model would have survived so long without those little machines. As a PC user I benefit a lot of the very low costs but I also know why I can enjoy them. It's not just about competition but also because the other markets stem the model.

 

[NervousXtian]

The tinkering is what makes it good. Why should I be forced to play what the dev thinks is good for me? I want 1080p and 60fps so I will sacrifice what I can to get that. Nothing is worse than having someone else decide what is best for you.

Wait, there's differing levels of what tinkering is easy, and what isn't.

I love having options internally in a game for graphics levels, resolution, full screen/windowed, sound, etc. All that is fine and dandy.. in game messing with settings to get the frame-rate, visual quality, and resolution I personally find acceptable is fantastic as a gamer.

Having to fuck with settings outside of the game to just get the damned thing to run at all, or run worth a shit when my computer is spec'd at a pretty good level (OC'd 3570k, 8gigs, and 7950) isn't fun.

I don't even mind as much tinkering outside messing with drivers and whatnot to gain a some performance, as long as the game was already running at acceptable levels to begin with.

Again though, I think for the most part it's an exception to have shit just not work, or have shit crash all the time, or graphical glitches due to some random BS that's not universal to everyone. Most games boot right up, let me change my settings, and work fine.

When they don't work fine, it sucks.. and it's wasting my time, which as a parent and a job.. I'd rather spend playing the game.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I borrowed my buddies PS3 in order to play TLOU earlier this year. (I ended up playing 1/2 way through it, and just watching the rest on Youtube - better experience).

The differences:

- PS3 -
Got home, and turned on PS3.
Waited...
Update required!
Waited a LONG time.
Finally, load game.
Waited...
Finally in game, ready to play.

- PC -
Got home, and wiggled the mouse.
Pc wakes in .5 seconds. See that it has installed updates while I was away. Cool.
Click on steam game.
game loads in 2 seconds.
Play game.
Get IM from friend to play L4D2.
Close current game and load L4D2 in 3 seconds.
Play game with friend.

I too have too little time now a days to deal with all the console bullshit

If you're the type that plays every once in a while then yes, you may have to install an update.
Going to get a drink while the system handles everything is a far cry from manually editing files, or having to "tinker" around to get the game to work.
If that's your cup of tea then fine, but don't pretend PC gaming is as simple and carefree as console gaming.

 

[Opiate]

Uh source? Because most every tangible numbers point otherwise.

No, they don't.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/pc-games-achieved-record-20bn-revenue-in-2012/0114418
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/07/2011-was-pc-gamings-biggest-ever-year-says-the-pc-gaming-alliance/

What is your evidence to the contrary?

 

[hlhbk]

If you're the type that plays every once in a while then yes, you may have to install an update.
Going to get a drink while the system handles everything is a far cry from manually editing files, or having to "tinker" around to get the game to work.
If that's your cup of tea then fine, but don't pretend PC gaming is as simple and carefree as console gaming.

It's pretty close.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Wait, there's differing levels of what tinkering is easy, and what isn't.

I love having options internally in a game for graphics levels, resolution, full screen/windowed, sound, etc. All that is fine and dandy.. in game messing with settings to get the frame-rate, visual quality, and resolution I personally find acceptable is fantastic as a gamer.

Having to fuck with settings outside of the game to just get the damned thing to run at all, or run worth a shit when my computer is spec'd at a pretty good level (OC'd 3570k, 8gigs, and 7950) isn't fun.

I don't even mind as much tinkering outside messing with drivers and whatnot to gain a some performance, as long as the game was already running at acceptable levels to begin with.

Again though, I think for the most part it's an exception to have shit just not work, or have shit crash all the time, or graphical glitches due to some random BS that's not universal to everyone. Most games boot right up, let me change my settings, and work fine.

When they don't work fine, it sucks.. and it's wasting my time, which as a parent and a job.. I'd rather spend playing the game.

go on and name a game that runs worse than the console version on your pc out of the box
Games run better by default on a half decent pc built after 2007
thing is better than consoles 20-30 fps with lots of torn frames (so in reality more like 15-20 fps) can still be shit, right?
But when a shit port runs at 35-40 fps on pc we call it unacceptable (as we should)
but when the same game runs worse on consoles you don't

even the most awful turd ports of the generation with broken performance (bioshock infinite, from dust, driver SF, nfs:MW 2013, trials evolution, homefront, gta4, skyrim, fallout 3, fallout NV -see a pattern here?almost all by bethesda and ubisoft ! don't buy their shit they don't give a fuck about quality control- )
even these games still performed better than the console version on any 2008+ gaming pc
the issue here isn't with the pc platform, it's publishers who spend more on marketing than on QA or development. and there is nowhere to get less shit versions of these games

it's the usual double standard because people expect more from pc gaming (but then don't give it credit for the higher standard)

 

[dLMN8R]

I would guess op is focusing on AAA gaming, which generally requires a bit more investment.

League of Legends isn't a "AAA game"? MMOs aren't "AAA games"?

Seems like an awfully convenient way to frame an argument in a way where it's only valid with specific stipulations.

 

[NervousXtian]

go on and name a game that runs worse than the console version on your pc out of the box
Games run better by default on a half decent pc built after 2007
thing is better than consoles 20-30 fps with lots of torn frames (so in reality more like 15-20 fps) can still be shit, right?
But when a shit port runs at 35-40 fps on pc we call it unacceptable (as we should)
but when the same game runs worse on consoles you don't

it's the usual double standard because people expect more from pc gaming (but then don't give it credit for the higher standard)

Why did you post this reply to me?

I never said anything about consoles. Not a word.

 

[Scrabble]

Since you seem to not anwser my questions this is probably pointless but I will try anyway. Do you want to still have the option to build a PC and put whatever hardware you choose (not mandated by any standard) into your PC? Please anwser this question.

Sorry I didn't see your question, and yes. People should absolutely have the choice to build their pc's, that's a benefit to pc gaming. Still, perhaps it's impossible with open hardware, or perhaps a steam box with a steam os will solve the issues entirely, but until pc's are as simple and plug and play as consoles, they will never be the forefront to publishers.

Until people can walk into a gamestop, buy a steam box and play games with no fuss, than it won't be as serious a market for publishers as we'd like. That shouldn't be a controversial statement, but I feel like people are taking this whole "but I am being taken serious" attitude way to personally. Sorry, but when rockstar refuses to acknowledge GTAV for pc, you are not being taken seriously. When activision denies Destiny coming to pc, you are not being taken seriously. When ubisoft has to kneel to pressure to assure us that a pc version of the division is coming, you are not being taken seriously. When microsoft puts no effort into their games for windows live service and refuses to port their first party games to the windows platform, you are not being taken seriously. When publishers time and time again treat pc gamers like a bonus or something to boss around with shitty 3rd party drm and other nefarious practices, you are not being taken seriously. When companies like Id and Crytek pack shop to move to consoles, they know pc gaming isn't a serious and valuable endeavor for them. When hardware that's 10-15x more powerful than consoles struggle to play console ports due to bad optimization, or are no more than console ports with the ability to play in 1080p, you are not being taken seriously.

I say these things as first and foremost a pc gamer, not someone who's computer illiterate or a console fanboy, but as someone who wants to see the pc market grow. Being naive and pretending that there isn't an issue isn't going to do anything. Valve knows that there is an issue and they plan to fix that, lets hope they do.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Here: http://www.newzoo.com/infographics/global-games-market-report-infographics/

Warning pdf:

http://www.newzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/us_summary_deck_new2.pdf

Good breakdowns but thats just the US and some of the EU. The biggest market for PC games by far is China and there is data available.
http://gamepolitics.com/2013/03/27/...es-annual-report-state-pc-gaming#.Um6vZflmidk

-The global PC gaming software market continues to show strong growth in 2012, reaching a record US$20 billion - overall growth of 8 percent over 2011 and 90 percent growth since the PCGA’s first report in 2008.

-China continues to be the largest and fastest growing market for PC games with record 2012 revenue of US$6.8 billion, a growth of percent. Mature game markets in Korea, Japan, U.S., U.K. and Germany all showed growth in 2012. Together these markets also increased revenue by percent in 2012, to $8.4 billion.

-There are over 1 billion PC gamers worldwide and that number is continuing to grow as more PCs are connected online. Over 250 million of those gamers play what are defined as "core games."

-The growth of mobile is helping the PC game business. The combination of mobile and PC as platforms is helping drive the growth of small self-funded teams that can develop more targeted products on a modest budget.

-The PC game business will continue to grow at a pace of 6 percent CAGR to $25.7 billion by 2016. This growth is driven by growing access to broadband connections and the increasing ease of digital distribution delivery solutions and payment methods on a global basis.

League of Legends isn't a "AAA game"? MMOs aren't "AAA games"?

Seems like an awfully convenient way to frame an argument in a way where it's only valid with specific stipulations.

Do you realize how many random MMOs there are? That charge money? Nobody has argued that there aren't successful AAA games on the PC. Quit being obtuse.

 

[Kinthalis]

I'm pretty clearly talking about you and your remark specifically.

Ok, on the off chance that the PS3 or the game didn't require an update at playtime, I still have to look for the disc and load the game which takes a LOT longer than on a PC.

More over, I'm stuck behind loading screens more often, for a LOT more time in any given play through than on a PC.

Take ME2 for example, the load times are a joke on PS3! I wish the video that had a comparison was still around, but it was taken down, but man that loading screen on the ship, jeebus, you need to go through that transition SEVERAL times in a single playthrough, and it was over a minute long. nevermind the entire game, and nevermind all the other load screens.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Op too OP in these threads. Always wait for him to come in with the smackdown lol

 

[Stallion Free]

250 mil core pcers vs 160 mil core consoles? Not bad.

 

[iamshadowlark]

No, they don't.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/pc-games-achieved-record-20bn-revenue-in-2012/0114418
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/07/2011-was-pc-gamings-biggest-ever-year-says-the-pc-gaming-alliance/

What is your evidence to the contrary?

From the PC gaming alliance you just cited:

 

[spirity]

- PC -
Got home, and wiggled the mouse.
Pc wakes in .5 seconds. See that it has installed updates while I was away. Cool.
Click on steam game.
game loads in 2 seconds.
Play game.
Get IM from friend to play L4D2.
Close current game and load L4D2 in 3 seconds.
Play game with friend.

Thats been my experience for a good number of years. I think I had a problem with Skyrim at launch, but can't remember if it was the game or my pc. I want to say a patch solved some stuttering but I honestly can't remember.

Getting the parts ordered, building it, installing software etc was the most tinkering I've done. I'll maybe update my graphics card drivers every 6 months. Thats it. (I do mess around with Nvidia Inspector, add mods, etc. But those aren't necessary, and only compliments the games I buy).

While I do sympathise with the OP and others in this thread who have had problems, that was never the case for me. I don't even see it as me being lucky, its more like others were unlucky.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Why did you post this reply to me?

I never said anything about consoles. Not a word.

Then how is your post relevant to the thread topic?
If you wana have a go at bad unfinished lazy ports and games then i'll be happy to grab a torch and join you in a thread about that.

You posted these arguments so I assumed you were talking about how they make pc less attractive compared to console gaming.
Sorry if I misunderstood you.

 

[Opiate]

Just to provide comparison:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/12q4_sony.pdf

Sony produced the most revenue last year of the three console manufacturers at 7.7 Billion. This also includes the PSP/PSVita, mind you.

 

[Clawww]

This is pretty much what I've suspected from people who personally identify themselves as "PC gamers" on forums. They're not really interested in playing videogames so much as they are interested in tinkering with their machines. They're more PC hobbyists than game enthusiasts.

Personally I don't need all that to enjoy playing videogames. For me, it's the game first. That's why I haven't been u sing my PC as my primary gaming platform until very recently; It's taken this long for PC ports to stop sucking.

This is so fucking laughable. Please don't try to call out PC gamers for not caring about playing games. If you actually care about gaming as a medium and hobby, PC gaming is where you *should* be. I guess if all you give a shit about is console ports, that doesn't apply to you.

 

[InPlosion]

Man, threads like this one are contribuing heavily to the sensation of "I don't belong here anymore".

It's simple, I grew up playing computer games online, gaming on pc while dealing with tech stuff on the side was my daily bread, and the same could be said for my friends aswell.
Nothing changed since then on that front.

Console gaming was completely invisible to me, since no console gamer was ever on the internet at the time. Yeah, as a kid, it was either have a pc for christmas OR a console. Having both was a pipedream, something only very rich kids could have access to.

Now I'm witnessing a total reversal, getting a device capable of accessing the internet is as cheap and easy as ever, so the gaming community shifted and changed to what it was before.

This discussion is a glaring example of this. I can see how it feels now, for you guys.

As I said, console gaming, and "their" games were completely non existant for me, well there were exceptions, big names like mario or mgs were known to be ofc, but I didn't know much else other than the title alone.

I can definitely understand, on the other side of the river, how the situation is similar. You guys didn't grow up on doom, you grew up on super mario and final fantasy. Other games/platforms than your own feel...distand and unknown.

Nothing wrong with that, one's personal background does shape opinions and naturally narrow down judgements.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Ok, on the off chance that the PS3 or the game didn't require an update at playtime, I still have to look for the disc and load the game which takes a LOT longer than on a PC.

Look for the disc? Yeah, that can be rough. You might also have to turn the TV on. It all adds up lol

 

[Opiate]

From the PC gaming alliance you just cited:

Thus proving that the PC is larger than all consoles combined, as stated. I'm not sure what you're arguing with. PC Gaming revenue is vastly larger than any console and even bigger than all consoles combined, as I said (~20B revenue for PC vs. ~19.2B for consoles).

 

[iamshadowlark]

Thus proving that the PC is larger than all consoles combined, as stated. I'm not sure what you're arguing with.

Do handheld consoles not count or?

 

[Opiate]

Do handheld consoles not count or?

As a home console? No, I don't think most people classify them as such. Even if you combine PS3 + PSVita + PSP + DS + 3DS + Wii + Xbox 360, the total revenue is 23.8B, which means everything Sony + MS + Nintendo make combined is ~15% more than just PC.

Which, again, suggests the PC is indeed the largest gaming platform, as was suggested when this discussion started.

 

[tokkun]

*shrug*

To some extent I find these issues "fun": after all, they largely were the driving force behind me pursuing CompSci and having a genuine love for computers.

I enjoy tinkering too, but only when I am doing so on my own terms. If I just want to sit down and relax with a game, then those technical issues are very frustrating.

Similarly, I find it "fun" to try to repair problems with my car on my own. However, that doesn't make it any less of a problem if my car doesn't start in the morning when I'm trying to get to work.

 

[Moon_frogger]

My ps3 updates everything while I'm sleeping. It even turns itself on to perform the updates. Not sure that is relevant to the discussion. anyway.

Anyway op has a very valid point that gets swept under the rug too often in my opinion. I bought baldurs gate 1 and 2 the other day, installed both and excitedly loaded up 1 ready for adventure. I spent all of Saturday and most of Sunday on forums and skypeing with a buddy trying to get the damn thing to run. This was a purchase that was guaranteed to run on my system but simply would not even boot without 2 days of tinkering and messing around. I've had many similar experiences with other games. We all have. Go ahead and deny it if you want. I certainly wouldn't call my experience with getting baldurs gate to run 'fun'. If this sort of thing happened on console we wouldn't be spinning it as fun.

Anyways, I love PC gaming. Just my 2 cents

 

[iamshadowlark]

As a home console? No, I don't think most people classify them as such.

Who said anything about home consoles?

 

[SneakyStephan]

Just to provide comparison:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/12q4_sony.pdf

Sony produced the most revenue last year of the three console manufacturers at 7.7 Billion. This also includes the PSP/PSVita, mind you, so even if being generous home consoles would be something like 7 Billion, total.

In other words, even if we include handhelds in the discussion, Sony+Microsoft+Nintendo is approximately 19.7 Billion dollars in revenue last year in their gaming segments combined. This compares to ~20 Billion for PC gaming.

Super off topic but I'm curious where do these revenue numbers come from for PC btw?

It must be incredibly hard to get a complete reading on pc revenue since it's so fragmented between retail and thousands of different distribution models online.
(steam, gog etc but also wargaming with their proprietary accounts and over 40 million players and all the other communities like it, f2p mmos, indie developers etc etc)

For the consoles there is a clear hierarchy tree to follow from SCEA/SCEJ etc to local distributors and retail , + their monopoly on DD makes it easy on the DD side.
But for pc gaming revenue there are no converging threads to follow, where did they find data from all these independant sources?

If you forget about one of the bigger mmos or world of tanks you already miss several hundred million dollars just from that alone.

 

[Shambles]

Who said anything about home consoles?

Who said anything about handheld PCs?

 

[Omegasquash]

I don't see many issues when running games...just set them to a reasonable level that I know my rig can handle and go from there.

I try to stay away from games that have lots of extra stuff going on (anything Ubi, Origin and anything with wacky DRM) so that's probably why I don't have much of an issue.

 

[Opiate]

Who said anything about home consoles?

I did, right here, in very plain language:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=87837958&postcount=975

Further, the starting point of this entire conversation was this post, where you argued that the PC is not the biggest gaming platform in the world:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=87835393&postcount=969

You now seem to be conceding that yes, PC Gaming is indeed the biggest gaming platform in the world, that it is bigger than all the home consoles put together, and is nearly as big as PS3+PSP+PSVita+3DS+DS+Wii+360 combined.