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[gundamkyoukai]

DICE has already said the XO version is missing many features, such as AO so it really isn't a good comparison to judge on.

It missing AO what else ???
Which going to hurt the frame rate even more .

 

[RoboPlato]

Why doesnt Next Gen wait a year and give us 1080p? Those comparison vids are a bloody stool sample!!!!!!!!!

As far as I know, this is the only PS4 launch title that isn't 1080p.

 

[sephi22]

Lol MS Smdh... They were more concerned about making sure this Fucking Kinect is showed down our throughts so they can scan our homes and use it to try and sell us shit, give infos to NSA greedy assholes. Now you're going to pay the price Bwahahahahaa and I don't feel bad one bit, only if I can find a place to preorder and get the ps4 day 1...

OMG HOW CAN IT LOOK BETTER NO OCCLUSION NONAA No NOTHONG 5O9% LESS PIXELS SHADERS ARE CLUSTERFORMED ANDBLOOK AT TJATBLIGHTNING TAJMAHAL HAMANAHAMANAHAMANA.

Just saying... If you like the xbone looks, Ur an idiot here... Expect it

Please don't do this.
You've made proper posts in the past, so I just assume you're just joking here.

 

[nib95]

Original DF images adjusted for the Limited RGB that the X1 was recorded in.

NOTE: These images do not have an added "sharpen" filter to "reverse" the blur effects of FXAA.


For what it's worth, I hate the crushed blacks.

Crushed blacks are indeed horrible. You can up contrast etc to add in more black depth, but you can't do the same the other way around. It's like in photography with blown highlights and whites. Very difficult to get back the lost detail once they're blown in white. No point buying a fancy plasma with 0.004 cd/m2 black levels and amazing contrast/shadow detailing if you're going to entrench too much of your picture with just black, instead of the countless subtle grades in-between it. That said, I think it's just DF's capture. Not sure the Xbox One version of BF4 actually does have this level of crushed blacks, so probably nothing to worry about.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Damn ps4 version is a blurry mess

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=87957773&postcount=5194

 

[Jack cw]

Damn ps4 version is a blurry mess

People are still getting their impressions on the shitty DF pictures?
EDIT: Also this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=87957773&postcount=5194

 

[Hoje0308]

Really? I must really have no concept of what "50% more powerful" looks like or how the PS4 version is in a different league because all I see is better textures and more aliasing in the XB1 version and smoother objects with blurrier/missing textures on the PS4 version which seems more like visual a trade off if anything. Half of those images I prefer the PS4 version and the other half I prefer the XB1. Obviously a cross gen game isn't going to blow anyone away but this is still disappointing on the PS4 front for me. I was at least expecting better textures regardless of their reasoning for them looking muddier. All versions look pretty meh, but after everyone was touting the PS4 version as the end all be all on consoles...I'm just not really seeing it.

PS4 version runs at 1600 * 900 = 1,440,000 pixels
X1 runs at 1280 * 720 = 921,600

Difference = 56%

Plus, PS4 has a more consistent frame-rate and less aliasing. There's your 50% and then some. Also, Digital Foundry fucked up the capture (source: the OP which nobody seems to read) which resulted in the Xbone comparing more favorably than it should.

 

[amstradcpc]

If they add AO to the Xbox version wouldn't there be a performance hit?

Yes. Maybe is a cheaper way of AO than HBAO and so the delay.

 

[velociraptor]

As far as I know, this is the only PS4 launch title that isn't 1080p.

I hope Battlefront targets native 1080p, considering this game is only going to be released for the next-gen consoles (and PC).

 

[dead monkey uk]

New Eurogamer article on the subject

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-face-off-qa#comments

 

[BajiRav]

Still. They only mentioned AO, and it becomes "many", which then becomes "tons", which then becomes "The day one patch will bump the res up to 1080 and the framerate to 60 with 16xMSAA guys!"

This weird game of telephone is getting out of hand.

@AlexConnellan:@repi @digitalfoundry Are there other fixes that aren't in the review copy?
@repi: @AlexConnellan @digitalfoundry yes there are some, but not something we will go into details about at this time.

https://twitter.com/repi/status/395181209619165184

 

[SwiftDeath]

Ok leadbetter

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-face-off-qa

 

[Iced_Eagle]

So, AO is "many" features now? Shit gets spun out of control here.

repi also said there were more features that will be in day one but he won't detail them until after launch.

 

[tkalamba]

It missing AO what else ???
Which going to hurt the frame rate even more .

I don't know ask DICE. They are the ones on twitter saying it isn't the only thing missing from the review build

They said it was only one of the fixes missing in one tweet, and follow up with this tweet
https://twitter.com/repi/status/395181209619165184

I don't know any more than what he has said.

 

[Raptor]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=87957773&postcount=5194

Even though this was not meant to answer my question it totally did, thank you!

"blurriness" in the comparison is because the xbone has a sharpen filter applied to its upscaler along with DF further sharpening the image (along with color and contrast changes on the xbone footage). PS4 (and PC) versions aren't blurry. XBONE version is artificially sharpened with a post-process effect. If that is the sort of thing that appeals to you, getting the PS4 version and cranking up the sharpness on your TV will accomplish the exact same thing. And no I'm not being snarky about it. That's literally the difference you are seeing on the XBONE footage.

Thanks.

 

[RoboPlato]

I hope Battlefront targets native 1080p, considering this game is only going to be released for the next-gen consoles (and PC).

I think it will. If they didn't have to work on the current gen versions, I think this game would be much better on both next gen platforms. That's part of the reason I'm looking forward to when PS3/360 finally get dropped, the next gen versions can get proper attention.

 

[Nightengale]

It's interesting what results you get when you do a twitter search for xboxone ps4 bf4

Looks like to the average (read casual) gamer, there's hardly any difference. I think Microsoft are slightly relieved on that front.

It's the first of many. MS still have Ghost to endure.

Anyway, to the casual gamer, they wouldn't really notice it unless it's the uncompressed video running on a proper TV, ( really, looking at video from the laptop is a poor way to actually see the difference ), but the biggest problem is the narrative.

Even if there's no real difference, MS will not like the idea that their console is deemed weaker but more expensive, even if just a little bit.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

Well, I wouldn't call worse IQ (50% lower pixel rate), sometimes even sub 720p, worse framerate, aliasing issues, etc. ...... a win and I wouldn't walk away happy from this.. but hey.... to each his own.

We all know this. No one denies the significant advantage of PS4 BF4 over Xbone one (50% more pixels, framerate, AO etc.)

The problem is it looks near undistinguishable for random buyer on the street.

It is not a PS2 vs Xbox Splinter Cell difference with clear, visible missing effects (bumpmapping, real time shadowing etc.)

Sony must use "FULL HD" in every single one of their adverts to nail the point home.

 

[badyu17]

I'm kinda late to read all of this discussion, but from what I've seen, JackFrags PS4 multiplayer videos are really nice looking and sharp, I have no problem watching them at 1080p on YT. There is no this blur that I see on DF's capture or I'm wrong? No way it's looking that blurry with higher resolution, what's going on?

This reminds me of that poor nvidia qaa on early ps3 games, that AA was vaseline filter that ruined the look of many ps3 versions of games. Really disappointed if that is the case again.

 

[iJudged]

Please don't do this.
You've made proper posts in the past, so I just assume you're just joking here.

You bet, hope no one got offended.

 

[Hanmik]

they are a bit harsh on Dark10x

Did a Digital Foundry employee admit that you botched the captures?

New freelancer John Linneman made comments online suggesting that the workflow was in error and that there wasn't time to correct it. We love John, but he wasn't privy to the workflow of last week's events, nor involved in any of the internal discussions we had. While his heart was in the right place, his post doesn't accurately reflect the facts as they stand and they are certainly not official comment from Digital Foundry.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-face-off-qa

 

[DopeyFish]

Damn ps4 version is a blurry mess

I would assume its because 720p on X1 is actual output res while 900p has to scale up

I say if they can't make 1080p, go for 720... sub resolution screws up image

 

[StevieP]

The real story here is both of these new next gen systems are well behind a modern mid-range pc and that is appalling.

This was always going to be the case. There being a celebratory mood in this thread is an interesting thing to watch, however.

 

[Andvary]

Ok leadbetter

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-face-off-qa

I'm not giving them any clicks, what does he say?

 

[Portugeezer]

Yea I agree. Console gamers are in for a treat

Except the 60fps is not locked down like COD multilayer. Judging from the analysis BF4 regularly runs in the 50's and often dips to low 40's.

That said it's still much smoother than 30fps with dips to 27fps, etc.

 

[kadotsu]

I'm just saying we should be expecting better after 8 years if sub full HD and we are still there. The hardware if these two systems should be that big of a learning curve considering the components they are using in them.

It is a miracle that launch games even turned out as great as they are. 5 Platforms (2 of which have unfinished dev environments and were prone to dramatic changes), new engine and a hard deadline with launch. It was probably crunch hell for a few months at DICE (and every other cross gen dev).

 

[Hoo-doo]

https://twitter.com/repi/status/395181209619165184

Might be just me, but the possibility of some un-named fixes does not imply that there are "many missing features" like the original poster claimed.

 

[Spongebob]

As far as I know, this is the only PS4 launch title that isn't 1080p.

Correct.

People

Spoiler

PC gamers

will still use this game as an example to show that the PS4 is struggling with 1080p

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

New Eurogamer article on the subject

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-face-off-qa#comments

So what's going on with Xbox One?

Xbox One was also acquired at full range 0-255 RGB with the dash set accordingly, in line with the other versions - exactly how we approach every Face-Off. We have now had informal confirmation from a very good source that current Xbox One hardware has issues with full-range RGB output that are not present on either PC or PS4. We asked DICE for comment and were told that they are "investigating the video output range and settings for Xbox One".

What a joke man. How is it they only noticed this now?

 

[nib95]

New Eurogamer article on the subject

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-face-off-qa#comments

The important bit for those that asked.

So what's going on with Xbox One?

Xbox One was also acquired at full range 0-255 RGB with the dash set accordingly, in line with the other versions - exactly how we approach every Face-Off. We have now had informal confirmation from a very good source that current Xbox One hardware has issues with full-range RGB output that are not present on either PC or PS4. We asked DICE for comment and were told that they are "investigating the video output range and settings for Xbox One".

 

[Chû Totoro]

I'm glad I didn't pre ordered any of these two systems. I'm not saying they are bad systems but it takes time to have a decent and good library.

I may have made the best choice going Wii U

Spoiler

(buy at launch was no the best thing to do but I take it for my Nintendo fanboyism)

this year keeping my PS3 and going for PS4 next year between march and Christmas.

 

[Xenon]

Sure, if they are fine with lower IQ. That was always going to be the case, you cant see the differences? The power deficit doesnt matter to you.

Not enough to stop me from buying an Xbox One. If there was One multiplat or exclusive title for the PS4 that I had to have, I would consider getting it first. All the IQ shit goes out the window after a few minutes once you lose yourself in a game. People enjoyed the PS2 and it had horrible image quality compared to the original Xbox.

I will admit that there have been times that I have had the graphics affect me enough to switch systems. I was half way though Tomb Raider on the Saturn, when I saw the PS version of the game. I bough the system the next day. But nothing I have seen so far between the PS4 and the XBO that warrants that response. It's more like the time I updated a video card after six months of owning my existing card. On paper it should have kicked my old cards ass but when I started playing games it was underwhelming.

Not only that, but let's run with the rumors of MS SDK tools being buggy/behind/incomplete and things can only improve for XB1 in terms of performance.

Hopefully this is the case, and maybe PS4 will be the resolution king but the Xbox will continue to make it a matter of nitpicking to see the differences.

 

[Maninthemirror]

New Eurogamer article on the subject

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-face-off-qa#comments

Did leadbetter just throw dark10x under the bus ?

 

[RoboPlato]

Ok leadbetter

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-face-off-qa

If you are sitting on 3TB of 1080p60 video, will we see any of it?

Yes.

Gimme

 

[Hoje0308]

Calm down, son. No one has quoted me. People are saying they fucked up and admitted to it. I'd like to know how and a link. I've read how in between the five minutes of me asking and you getting mad that I asked.

It's in the OP dude. There really wasn't any excuse for not knowing.

 

[Taker34]

Well there's quite a difference. I can't imagine to pay 100$ more for 720p multiplatform titles... my wallet is ready!

 

[Chief Icaroc]

So after all of the insane locked threads yesterday the outcome is:

PC Fans: EL OH EL 900p! PC FTW!
PS4 Fans: ZOMG! 720p! PS4 FTW!
XO Fans: I am okay with this.

Any reaction not contained above I would classify as people on the fence, they moved into one of those categories.

 

[Perkel]

From recent DF article:

If you are sitting on 3TB of 1080p60 video, will we see any of it?

Yes.

Ok DF i trust you will put at least 2GB video footage from PS4 for DOWNLOAD. We don't want crappy Youtube player that at 1080p is worse than native 720p

 

[Maninthemirror]

What a joke man. How is it they only noticed this now?

Leadbetter is lying . If what he says were true the same issue would occur in JackFrag and IGN videos

 

[nib95]

I would assume its because 720p on X1 is actual output res while 900p has to scale up

I say if they can't make 1080p, go for 720... sub resolution screws up image

Huh? This doesn't make any sense.

720p is the Xbox One versions native resolution.
900p is the PS4 versions native resolution.

900p is always going to be better than 720p. And 720p better than 540p etc. Hence why Ryse is running at 900p. But why many games on the PS4 are running 1080p, which is the best option as it is the native resolution of most HDTV's, in other words, no upscaling necessary.

Both are having to be upscaled to 1080p. It looks like the XO's scaling tech adds some sort of sharpness to the mix, which gives more vivid details, but also adds more aliasing and shimmering to the mix as a negative.

 

[2+2=5]

Apparently ps4 and xb1 will have the same contrast differences of the previous generation...

 

[Violater]

Original DF images adjusted for the Limited RGB that the X1 was recorded in.

NOTE: These images do not have an added "sharpen" filter to "reverse" the blur effects of FXAA.


For what it's worth, I hate the crushed blacks.

Lol turn that color up to 11

 

[HawksWinStanley]

Apparently Digital Foundry messed up their capturing.

Xbox One version captures have more sharpness and contrast than they should.
PS4 captures are blurrier than they ought to be.


On a side note though, games later cycle will obliterate this graphically and performance wise. So there's that to consider.

Ah, then why is this thread 105 pages based on footage and images that don't look the way they actually look? And it seems kind of asinine that people are actually claiming one is more dominant over the other if that's the case. Does that mean they just prefer the way DF fucked up the PS4 capture instead of the way they fucked up the XB1 capture?

It's like I'm not part of the inside joke...this just looks like your typical 360/PS3 comparison thread where there are some visual differences and trade offs with both. The PS4 looks overall better but I'm not seeing this domination that I'm reading about in here. I know there's all kinds of crazy things going on under the hood that swing things even more in PS4's favor (if what I'm reading on here is true) but it doesn't look like it's making that big of a difference.

 

[xaosslug]

Leadbetter posted a response on Eurogamer as an "Editor's blog".. He doesn't seem to have any regrets whatsoever. Is GAF gonna crash again now?

EDIT: Link if it hasn't been posted yet.

Did a Digital Foundry employee admit that you botched the captures?

New freelancer John Linneman made comments online suggesting that the workflow was in error and that there wasn't time to correct it. We love John, but he wasn't privy to the workflow of last week's events, nor involved in any of the internal discussions we had. While his heart was in the right place, his post doesn't accurately reflect the facts as they stand and they are certainly not official comment from Digital Foundry.

shots fired... looks like DF's going all-in. LOL

 

[SwiftDeath]

I'm not giving them any clicks, what does he say?

Here you go

Editor's blog: Battlefield 4 Face-off Preview Q&A

Gamma bomb.

By Richard Leadbetter Published Tuesday, 29 October 2013

Wow, it's certainly been a wild and crazy day, with all manner of questions and even accusations floating about concerning our Battlefield 4 coverage. Time to take stock and comprehensively address the queries surrounding our article:

The big question - did Digital Foundry botch its Battlefield 4 captures?

We've now examined Xbox One and PlayStation 4 game and UI/dashboard elements and have concluded that the equipment did exactly what was asked of it - it acquired digital video in a mathematically lossless format at 1080p60, in the full range RGB (0-255) colourspace. Dashboards and control panels were all set accordingly to match the requirements of the equipment. We're now satisfied that the captures on PS4 and PC are exactly as they should be - digitally lossless transmissions of what came out of the hardware.

So what's going on with Xbox One?

Xbox One was also acquired at full range 0-255 RGB with the dash set accordingly, in line with the other versions - exactly how we approach every Face-Off. We have now had informal confirmation from a very good source that current Xbox One hardware has issues with full-range RGB output that are not present on either PC or PS4. We asked DICE for comment and were told that they are "investigating the video output range and settings for Xbox One".

Is this the result of you processing the footage to make it look better compared to PlayStation 4?

Um, you don't make a game look better by crushing subtle detail. The lowering of dynamic range like this physically can't make a game look better - it can only look worse. The only regret here is that the drive for the best possible assets has resulted in captures that do not fully represent how DICE wants the game to be played.

Why isn't anyone else's footage from the same event showing the crushed blacks?

EA provided Elgato Game Capture HD consumer-level devices at the Stockholm event. They're great little units but they are unsuitable for DF work because they cannot acquire 1080p at 60 frames per second and they do not provide lossless video. The reason they do not show crushed blacks on Xbox One is because they operate at limited range RGB (16-235) and the XO dashes were set accordingly. We are told that the current Xbox One appears to be fine operating in limited range RGB, so this is a good match for the unit. We also know that both PS4 and XO hardware at the EA event was set by default to limited range RGB, so other attendees were good to go straight off the bat while we had to make changes to suit our more specialised equipment.

Does the Xbox One issue change any of your observations about Battlefield 4?

No, though we would like to see how the apparent sharpening of detail looks in the proper colourspace. The only change - which we have made already - is the comment from DICE's Johan Andersson that ambient occlusion (missing in the XO review build we tested) will be present in the game you play at launch, using the same algorithm as the PS4 and PC version.

Did a Digital Foundry employee admit that you botched the captures?

New freelancer John Linneman made comments online suggesting that the workflow was in error and that there wasn't time to correct it. We love John, but he wasn't privy to the workflow of last week's events, nor involved in any of the internal discussions we had. While his heart was in the right place, his post doesn't accurately reflect the facts as they stand and they are certainly not official comment from Digital Foundry.

If you are sitting on 3TB of 1080p60 video, will we see any of it?

Yes.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

New freelancer John Linneman made comments online suggesting that the workflow was in error and that there wasn't time to correct it. We love John, but he wasn't privy to the workflow of last week's events, nor involved in any of the internal discussions we had. While his heart was in the right place, his post doesn't accurately reflect the facts as they stand and they are certainly not official comment from Digital Foundry

Oh snap.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Ah, then why is this thread 105 pages based on footage and images that don't look the way they actually look? And it seems kind of asinine that people are actually claiming one is more dominant over the other if that's the case. Does that mean they just prefer the way DF fucked up the PS4 capture instead of the way they fucked up the XB1 capture?

It's like I'm not part of the inside joke...this just looks like your typical 360/PS3 comparison thread where there are some visual differences and trade offs with both. The PS4 looks overall better but I'm not seeing this domination that I'm reading about in here. I know there's all kinds of crazy things going on under the hood that swing things even more in PS4's favor (if what I'm reading on here is true) but it doesn't look like it's making that big of a difference.

DF didn't fuck up the PS4 or PC captures. They fucked up the XB1.

 

[Hexa]

Limited RGB by phosphor plus default sharpen to get rid of AA on PS4.
XBone bloom still annoys the crap out of me. :/

 

[Hanmik]

this is funny..

Why isn't anyone else's footage from the same event showing the crushed blacks?

EA provided Elgato Game Capture HD consumer-level devices at the Stockholm event. They're great little units but they are unsuitable for DF work because they cannot acquire 1080p at 60 frames per second and they do not provide lossless video. The reason they do not show crushed blacks on Xbox One is because they operate at limited range RGB (16-235) and the XO dashes were set accordingly. We are told that the current Xbox One appears to be fine operating in limited range RGB, so this is a good match for the unit. We also know that both PS4 and XO hardware at the EA event was set by default to limited range RGB, so other attendees were good to go straight off the bat while we had to make changes to suit our more specialised equipment.

as far as I know the Elgato Game capture can do 720p at 60fps.. that should be enough for the Xbox One stuff .. ;o)

 

[artist]

We all know this. No one denies the significant advantage of PS4 BF4 over Xbone one (50% more pixels, framerate, AO etc.)

The problem is it looks near undistinguishable for random buyer on the street.

It is not a PS2 vs Xbox Splinter Cell difference with clear, visible missing effects (bumpmapping, real time shadowing etc.)

Sony must use "FULL HD" in every single one of their adverts to nail the point home.

I bet the random buyer on the street cant tell the differences between 360 and Xbone version either.