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Pennello: "People just weren't ready for all digital Xbox One". Post #657 = ether.
- Thread starter Jomjom
- Start date
It's pretty clear that they never meant the apology.
And furthermore that their plans are merely delayed, not thwarted.
It probably will, but having microsoft be the arbiter of an all digital future is pretty much unacceptable based on their anti consumer practices.
I'm confused. Why are people relating an all digital delivery system to the original Xbone policies? Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that physical media would still exist, however the software would be "licensed" to the Gamertag/Console upon install hence making the disc a delivery method rather than a playable media. So my understanding is that the gamer would have the option of downloading the game via MS servers of using the traditonal physical media delivery, correct me if I am wrong.
Or just oblivious. "Consumers weren't ready" has been MS' go-to mantra whenever their ridiculous always-online DRM coated "digital future" bullshit is touched on, and hearing it over and over again is so grating. Especially when you've got the apologists out in full-force excusing it with "digital is the future hurr" and gracefully missing the point entirely.
That's not the issue, if Sony tries to pull the same shit MS did they would be greeted with the same result.
Jacksonlee
Member
if you actually think they publishers will lower game prices after it goes all digital, you're out of this world.
why lower something when it's already selling?
You really have no idea what this argument is over, do you?
Robot Pants
Member
Oh GOD, MS!.
Just stop talking for awhile Jesus!
Just stop talking for awhile Jesus!
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Infrastructure isn't there yet, Maybe in 20 years.
What a PR blunder.
You're weeks away from launch about you think that smart thing to do was to remind everyone about how the DRM fiasco that you had to do a complete 180 on because the consumer thought it to be draconian shit?
Talking about the DRM only reminds people how shitty MS started off next gen. And being condescending about it by implying the consumer were irrational in their response does nothing but further anger people.
You're weeks away from launch about you think that smart thing to do was to remind everyone about how the DRM fiasco that you had to do a complete 180 on because the consumer thought it to be draconian shit?
Talking about the DRM only reminds people how shitty MS started off next gen. And being condescending about it by implying the consumer were irrational in their response does nothing but further anger people.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I kind of wish they had stuck to it if only for a perverse curiosity.
Microsoft think so little of consumers this still wasn't a bad idea but consumer ignorance.
Microsoft think so little of consumers this still wasn't a bad idea but consumer ignorance.
Yeah, I think it's a bit shortsighted that people are looking at this from within the constraints of retail, which will ultimately go away as it's becoming increasingly inefficient, inconvenient and costly compared to digital distribution. I mean PC gaming is nearly exclusively digital-only now.
Microsoft just tried to move WAY too fast and didn't stop to consider many things along the way, and on top of the NSA stuff, ended up looking really shaky. The core vision though is inevitable, and pretty much the foundation for what makes Steam great. They just approached DRM and license management in a draconian way.
gundamkyoukai
Member
yep it also has been years for music and it much smaller .
DD will take time to replace disc even more so in certain parts of the world .
Wolves Evolve
Member
I live in Australia. We wont be ready for Pennelo's vision for another decade. My monthly cap is 150 gb. I am lucky to ever get a meg a second down the line.
If he wants to kill retail, declare a war and make it happen.
If he wants to kill retail, declare a war and make it happen.
BobTheFork
Member
Yeah, there was quite a bit of this going around. Especially in guys like Cliffy B, whom you would think understood the idea of the industry being a consumer based economy.
They also made the features they supposedly had to remove up.
Sharing your library was about as real as 14 Day Buy and Play, and all of them had no reason to be pulled.
quickwhips
Member
Make us only check in once a month and you have a deal MS.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Ok if you wanna play like that then the xbox one will allow you to connect your ps4 in the HDMI in the back and allow you to connect to it through the xbox. But hey, i know thats not the same since its Microsoft.
CouchMaster
Member
This is why I won't be even least bit surprised if MS does a 180 on their 180 few years from now when they're at comfortable 40-50 mil install base.
Holy fuck dude......holy fuck. This place sometimes.
You're not wrong. You're just getting tripped up by the misleading PR mumbo jumbo trying to reactroactively recharacterize the problem.
The issue wasn't about "all-digital" in the first place. It was their implementation of a larger policy around the Xbone; digital was only a part of the pie.
titusandronicus
Member
Aside from the Steam sales, what makes Valve's system better than Microsoft's original plan for the Xbox One?
You still don't own your Steam games. You can't sell or trade them in. You can't lend them to a friend. If there is a big issue over licensing or royalties between companies, the games can be taken off. If Valve goes bust and Steam closes down, you will lose games. (And yes I know of the Valve 'kill switch'. This would only apply to Valve's games, there is no way in hell they have any system in place for EA, Ubisoft etc. to remove DRM).
You still don't own your Steam games. You can't sell or trade them in. You can't lend them to a friend. If there is a big issue over licensing or royalties between companies, the games can be taken off. If Valve goes bust and Steam closes down, you will lose games. (And yes I know of the Valve 'kill switch'. This would only apply to Valve's games, there is no way in hell they have any system in place for EA, Ubisoft etc. to remove DRM).
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
This right here is why an all-digital future will not work anytime soon. Have numerous friends with 300-500GB caps. That can be eaten away extremely fast if you are downloading 50GB games, playing games, streaming/uploading/downloading game-clips (which is one of the features of both consoles), watching more SUPERHD content, skype video calls, etc.
They and we may want it, but the infrastructure is not nearly there for it.
Not only isn't he right on this score, but we do have a choice and we exercised that choice quite dramatically when gamers pushed back against the Draconian measures being implemented in the original Xbox One vision.
There is absolutely zero reason why an all digital future is the requirement. A future that includes digital. A future in which digital is dominant, perhaps. But as we still have music CDs, as we still have DVDs, as we still have Blu-Rays - we will continue to have physical media and continue to demand the rights afforded to us in such media.
If you do not, then in our consoles, we expect a certain level of cushioning to make what we're giving up worth it - literally none of which was in XBO's original vision, until they frantically were trying to say it was at the very end. They had no clue what they were doing. They weren't going to allow renting and borrowing and trade-ins, RedBox and Gamestop thought that was the case up until the last minute, and were actively fighting against the XBO until that moment. So I'm not even convinced that was in the original blueprints - what kind of incompetent company launches a system in which trading/renting was "always there", yet Gamestop and Best Buy and RedBox had no fucking clue that was the case until weeks after your reveal?
No, their original vision was fucking disastrous bollocks and it's honestly kind of insulting to everyone's intelligence that they don't realize it was HOW they were delivering their vision back then that was the problem.
Timing of this message just before launch when all consoles must be internet connected to unbrick is suspicious too.
Why would people even want to put up with MS vision for a more expensive inferior piece of hardware, on top of all the anti consumer stuff in the first place.
Just go away already.
Why would people even want to put up with MS vision for a more expensive inferior piece of hardware, on top of all the anti consumer stuff in the first place.
Just go away already.
soul creator
Member
1) no 24hr check (of course, those stores don't have digital resale or lending either, and a need to support this for physical discs, so there's no need for a 24hr check in other places)
2) the items are usually cheaper (though brand new retail games on Steam still tend to be full price)
3) people don't really associate Steam and iPad with physical goods (though lots of Steam games are on useless physical discs with DRM on them)
That said, I've always saw these as a difference in degree, and not kind, which is why never found the comparisons completely unfounded. Valve and Apple aren't necessarily massively better in consumer rights, they just have other benefits to compensate. Benefits that Microsoft didn't have (or at least, didn't have announced 6 months ago on their unreleased system)
ndawgdrake
Member
I wouldn't be surprised if next Next-Gen will be all digital. The consumer just isn't ready at this point in time, though.
Zombie James
Banned
Not to mention it was the same bullshit arguments the media kept harping on.
Steam sales and a more flexible pricing structure. People don't care about losing games when they're on the cheap.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
This bullshit is precisely why MS lost me forever as an Xbox customer. I can see I made the right choice. Folks, they haven't learned a damn thing! They tried ramming it in, and it backfired so now they are gonna try to go slow and see if you don't notice.
not sure about iPad, but there are a couple of difference with Steam:
1) prices of digital pc game downloads on steam demonstrably lower than retail box, which is not the case with XLBA games where often times the games are more expensive digital than their retail counterparts.
2) Steam works on the PC which is a more or less open platform that isn't going anywhere (or has not gone anywhere at least) for a long time. There is no guaranteed support that XBOX One online services will continue, or that there will be any backwards compatibility with future hardware.
3)Steam has an offline mode that works for a LONG time.
This can probably go on and on but we're retreading a well worn path here.
FunkyPajamas
Member
I said it before: it speaks volumes of Microsoft's lack of direction and vision that they backpedaled on this. If they truly believed in a digital future they would have continued to push their product, no matter how misguided their intentions.
For the record: I do believe in a digital future. I don't believe in bending over for console manufacturers.
For the record: I do believe in a digital future. I don't believe in bending over for console manufacturers.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
#SonyGaf
mentallyinept
Banned
Please tell me this is a joke.... someone?... please?
Maninthemirror
Banned
it really makes me wonder though.
I am pretty sure a number of publishers wanted the DRM options in place to make money and not having to deal with some consumers waiting for a used copy or the fact that people used to share their games with others resulting in a potential loss of sale for them.
I am also pretty sure the gaming media which has close associations with publishers and the console manufacturers wanted some sort of DRM options too to maximize their profitablity and control of content
Then I see the launch games for Xbox One and PS4 and it makes me think. Why would the publishers want to have such a unilateral partnership with a console which is weaker in the hardware and future sense. It can be one thing or the other. MS wants to flourish its system with enough exclusive content that when the gamers do accept the current form of the Xbox One environment, they push the DRM features on an audience in love with the exclusives OR the fact that Publishers want to flourish the Xbox One environment with enough exclusives that attract consumers to an extent that when they are locked into that environment, MS pushes the DRM like both the MS and Publishers want. Or it could be a combination of both
Look at the games coming out:
Ryse exclusivity
Dead Rising 3 (when it went multiplatform on DR2)
Titanfall (even the developer wanted it to be multiplatform but EA made the deal to make it PLATFORM exclusive.)
Sunset Overdrive (a former PS3 developer switching to Xbox One exclusivity)
But thats just my thought
I am pretty sure a number of publishers wanted the DRM options in place to make money and not having to deal with some consumers waiting for a used copy or the fact that people used to share their games with others resulting in a potential loss of sale for them.
I am also pretty sure the gaming media which has close associations with publishers and the console manufacturers wanted some sort of DRM options too to maximize their profitablity and control of content
Then I see the launch games for Xbox One and PS4 and it makes me think. Why would the publishers want to have such a unilateral partnership with a console which is weaker in the hardware and future sense. It can be one thing or the other. MS wants to flourish its system with enough exclusive content that when the gamers do accept the current form of the Xbox One environment, they push the DRM features on an audience in love with the exclusives OR the fact that Publishers want to flourish the Xbox One environment with enough exclusives that attract consumers to an extent that when they are locked into that environment, MS pushes the DRM like both the MS and Publishers want. Or it could be a combination of both
Look at the games coming out:
Ryse exclusivity
Dead Rising 3 (when it went multiplatform on DR2)
Titanfall (even the developer wanted it to be multiplatform but EA made the deal to make it PLATFORM exclusive.)
Sunset Overdrive (a former PS3 developer switching to Xbox One exclusivity)
But thats just my thought
Mass Effect
Member
Jesus Christ, you're just as bad as you were on IGN.
Fuck me. Some people on here are just intolerable near launch it seems.
Colonel Nasty
Member
I don't see what all the fuss is about? People don't think gaming will be all digital in the future? I understand bandwidth issues but wasn't that exactly what MS was doing was providing all digital to people with bandwidth issues? How else to do you allow people to install every game and not require the disk without a check in? Should every game just come with a CD key?
Oh, they believed it would go over well.
Then they saw the One vs PS4 preorder ratio.
Steve Youngblood
Member
There are some similarities. However, it's important to understand a few things.
1.) Not everybody who is against the Xbox scenario is necessarily for other arguable similar forms of DRM.
2.) These exist on different device types where there were already inherent differences in how media is consumed. iPads and smart phones have never had physical versions of software, for instance. And on the PC, the secondary market was already mostly killed off thanks to the existence of CD-Keys and the like. For better or for worse, consumers on these devices had already accepted the terms that resale wasn't possible.
3.) Many people buy software differently on these devices. While I certainly don't want to suggest that nobody pays full price for a PC games on Steam -- as I'm sure many do -- I think many of the people who embrace Steam were mainly brought in by the plethora of insane sales that exist on Steam and other digital marketplaces (that often sell keys that activate on Steam). And as far as iOS games are concerned, $20 (ignoring games with In-App purchases) is about the ceiling for what a game can cost. Long story short, people embrace more restrictions when they are paying less.
4.) Many people weren't convinced that the restrictions of the proposed Xbox DRM were as forgivable as other platforms.
Uno Venova
Banned
You're doing great man.
I don't think it will be all digital any time soon, nor will it need frequent check ins for digital or disc based games. It was a terrible system all around.
There were some interesting concepts around the notion they just bolloxed up the proposed implementation of it.
What was so effing difficult with the following
1. You can play any digitally bought game at any time even if the console has been offline for a billion years.
2. You can play any physically bought game installed on the HDD offline with the disc in the drive even if the console has been offline for a billion years
3. You can play any physically bought game installed on the HDD offline without the disc in the drive for a period of 24 hours. If you're offline longer than that you'll be asked to insert the disc.
That eliminates most of the issues with what they were proposing. They could still do trade in's simply by putting a code in the box which removes access until the disc is inserted when entered on another console.With Kinect scanning that in would be trivial. I honestly don't see how that would be to implement given the online infrastructure MS have.
What was so effing difficult with the following
1. You can play any digitally bought game at any time even if the console has been offline for a billion years.
2. You can play any physically bought game installed on the HDD offline with the disc in the drive even if the console has been offline for a billion years
3. You can play any physically bought game installed on the HDD offline without the disc in the drive for a period of 24 hours. If you're offline longer than that you'll be asked to insert the disc.
That eliminates most of the issues with what they were proposing. They could still do trade in's simply by putting a code in the box which removes access until the disc is inserted when entered on another console.With Kinect scanning that in would be trivial. I honestly don't see how that would be to implement given the online infrastructure MS have.