Support NeoGAF

[netBuff]

We're talking about virtual surround, right? How well does that really work?

I'm a head-fi geek and virtual surround always goes wrong, sound-quality-wise. Still a bummer they don't have it.

Dolby Headphone works pretty well and sounds good. It's very easy to discern sound directions, I really wouldn't want to play games without it. In multiplayer especially, it's a huge advantage. There are a few differing virtual headphone surround technologies out there, not all of them are passable.

Regarding movies, I think it comes down to preference: But "The Pacific" was what convinced me, a pretty compelling experience with Dolby Headphone.

 

[Daffy Duck]

We're talking about virtual surround, right? How well does that really work?

I'm a head-fi geek and virtual surround always goes wrong, sound-quality-wise. Still a bummer they don't have it.

For me, in CoD games it works amazingly well, ability to hear directions of footsteps etc, this is going to ruin that.

Really bummed about this news.

 

[c3t]

There's certainty no technical reason for this. It sounds like MS are pulling a Nintendo and just being cheap and saving on the licensing cost of including DD codecs.

Sigh. If they are really being cheap, I might end up selling my day one edition seeing as how this affects me. I rely on optical for DD, and now I'm hearing optical doesn't support DD. That is just dumb.

 

[Terbinator]

Sigh. If they are really being cheap, I might end up selling my day one edition seeing as how this affects me. I use an astro mixamp via optical, and now I'm hearing optical doesn't support DD. That is just dumb.

The Dolby Headphone function should still work on the MixAmp - try it now for yourself but set your source to stereo/2 channel only.

 

[netBuff]

The Dolby Headphone function should still work on the MixAmp - try it now for yourself but set your source to stereo/2 channel only.

The point of the "Dolby Headphone" function of the Mixamp is to create an actual 5.1 soundstage from 5.1 input - virtual "room environment" from stereo sources is not why people buy these systems.

The main attraction of surround headphones - being able to hear directional audio - is impossible with Xbone so far.

 

[LicenceToK1ll]

The other poster was contemplating getting 5.1 audio through his TVs optical audio out port (Dolby Digital encoding via HDMI, then TV optical out -> headphones), something that is impossible with almost all sets as they tend to only carry stereo on their outputs.



Exactly.

Well, i'm 100% sure my 2009 Sony TV sends out Dolby 5.1 when it uses a Hdmi source with dolby bitstreaming.

 

[netBuff]

Well, i'm 100% sure my 2009 Sony TV sends out Dolby 5.1 when it uses a Hdmi source with dolby bitstreaming.

Then consider yourself one of the lucky few owning a TV model that supports such an advanced feature.

 

[CLEEK]

A handful of TVs pass through DD/DTS out their optical, but the vast majority don't. They only output DD/DTS surround if the source is their internal tuner.

 

[MikeHattsu]

As far as I'm aware, you can get legal freeware DD (AC-3) decoders. You have to have a licence from Dolby to output DD.

The Xbone could decode DD 5.1 and output it over HDMI as LPCM. Optical doesn't have the bandwidth to carry a mulit-channel LPCM signal. That's just a guess, but sounds likely.

They say there's a Dolby option for HDMI output, so I don't think it would just decode to LPCM then.

 

[Daffy Duck]

What confuses me is the Astro site says it does it just like they do on the 360, and if you plug in the mixamp you get Dolby Digital 7.1....

 

[LicenceToK1ll]

Then consider yourself one of the lucky few owning a TV model that supports such an advanced feature.

This is the TV if youre interested : http://www.sony.co.uk/product/tv-102-40-lcd/kdl-40w5500

It seems like a basic feature to me honestly, Do they even have to pay a licensce fee to pass it through because it is not decoding it.?

 

[c3t]

What confuses me is the Astro site says it does it just like they do on the 360, and if you plug in the mixamp you get Dolby Digital 7.1....

They were probably assuming that Microsoft wouldn't have made a mistake as stupid as this. Well if this is true, they just did.

 

[Fried Food]

Can someone help me out here.

My tv has an optical out port and here's what the manual says about it:

"You can enjoy your Home theater by connecting a dolby digital (5.1 channel decoder) and "Multi Channel" amplifier to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminals"

Does this mean I could connect the XBONE to the tv via HDMI, and then connect to the TV to the astro mixamp via optical? Would this let the mixamp process out the dolby 5.1 signal (like what happens with the 360)

 

[c3t]

Can someone help me out here.

My tv has an optical out port and here's what the manual says about it:

"You can enjoy your Home theater by connecting a dolby digital (5.1 channel decoder) and "Multi Channel" amplifier to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminals"

Does this mean I could connect the XBONE to the tv via HDMI, and then connect to the TV to the astro mixamp via optical? Would this let the mixamp process out the dolby 5.1 signal (like what happens with the 360)

Yes. Assuming I understand you correctly.

 

[sja_626]

In response to this I just did an experiment with my 5.1 DD headphones.

Previously I was using:

360 -> Optical Out -> Headphone transmitter optical in

to get surround sound on the headphones.

I just tested out 360 -> HDMI -> Receiver -> Headphone jack -> Headphone transmitter line in.

The receiver is definitely doing some kind of surround processing on the headphone output and the result sounds pretty comparable to what I had before. Is this to be expected or do I have terrible hearing?

I guess in theory the receiver could do the exact some processing the headphone transmitter does. But for some reason I expected it to be much worse in practice.

So seemingly I can not only vastly simplify my setup by getting rid of the optical switch I've been using to get headphone surround out of the 360, PS3 and TV, but I'll also be fine with Xbox One, and should even be able to get headphone surround out of devices lacking optical output and/or DD support (I'm looking at you Wii U!). Does this make sense or am I crazy?

 

[Fried Food]

They were probably assuming that Microsoft wouldn't have made a mistake as stupid as this. Well if this is true, they just did.

Astro put out a statement in June where they said they are looking into support and won't make a statement until they are sure how the existing products will work. Then in October they put out a statment where they said the mixamps would handle the dolby digital GAME AUDIO from both the XBONE and PS4

 

[CLEEK]

Can someone help me out here.

My tv has an optical out port and here's what the manual says about it:

"You can enjoy your Home theater by connecting a dolby digital (5.1 channel decoder) and "Multi Channel" amplifier to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminals"

Does this mean I could connect the XBONE to the tv via HDMI, and then connect to the TV to the astro mixamp via optical? Would this let the mixamp process out the dolby 5.1 signal (like what happens with the 360)

Only if your TV does 5.1 pass-through over optical.

As already mentioned, very few TVs do this. Most TVs only output DD/DTS surround if the source is their internal tuner (so an over the air TV show, not from an
external device).

Astro put out a statement in June where they said they are looking into support and won't make a statement until they are sure how the existing products will work. Then in October they put out a statment where they said the mixamps would handle the dolby digital GAME AUDIO from both the XBONE and PS4

This was covered on the last page. They say the Xbone support Dolby Digital, and the PS4 supports Dolby Digital 5.1 and 7.1

Implying the Xbone only supports DD 2,0

 

[Daffy Duck]

Can someone help me out here.

My tv has an optical out port and here's what the manual says about it:

"You can enjoy your Home theater by connecting a dolby digital (5.1 channel decoder) and "Multi Channel" amplifier to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminals"

Does this mean I could connect the XBONE to the tv via HDMI, and then connect to the TV to the astro mixamp via optical? Would this let the mixamp process out the dolby 5.1 signal (like what happens with the 360)

I have a similar question too, my 2012 Samsung TV has Optical out, so if I connect it via HDMI to my XB1 and use my Optical Out from the TV will my Mixamp get 7.1/5.1 Surround Sound? My manual says the below:

When you connect a Digital Audio System to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL) jack, decrease the volume of both the TV and the system.
● Use the System speakers for audio.
● 5.1 CH (channel) audio is available when the TV is connected to an external device supporting 5.1 CH.
● When the receiver (home theatre) is set to on, you can hear sound output from the TV’s optical jack. When the TV is receiving a DTV signal, the TV will send 5.1 CH sound to the home theatre receiver.
When the source is a digital component such as a DVD / Bluray player / cable box / STB (Set-Top-Box)satellite receiver and is connected to the TV via HDMI, only 2 CH audio will be heard from the home theatre receiver.
If you want to hear 5.1 CH audio, connectthe digital audio out jack from your DVD / Blu-ray player / cable box / STB satellite receiver directly to an amplifier or home theatre

 

[netBuff]

So seemingly I can not only vastly simplify my setup by getting rid of the optical switch I've been using to get headphone surround out of the 360, PS3 and TV, but I'll also be fine with Xbox One, and should even be able to get headphone surround out of devices lacking optical output and/or DD support (I'm looking at you Wii U!). Does this make sense or am I crazy?

Your device still needs to support Dolby Digital 5.1 via HDMI, so you won't get surround audio on your headphones from the Wii U. But yes, your AV receiver can output Dolby 5.1 via optical - your new setup is just fine and the type of operation AV receivers are made for.

I have a similar question too, my 2012 Samsung TV has Optical out, so if I connect it via HDMI to my XB1 and use my Optical Out from the TV will my Mixamp get 7.1/5.1 Surround Sound? My manual says the below:

When you connect a Digital Audio System to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL) jack, decrease the volume of both the TV and the system.
● Use the System speakers for audio.
● 5.1 CH (channel) audio is available when the TV is connected to an external device supporting 5.1 CH.
● When the receiver (home theatre) is set to on, you can hear sound output from the TV’s optical jack. When the TV is receiving a DTV signal, the TV will send 5.1 CH sound to the home theatre receiver.
When the source is a digital component such as a DVD / Bluray player / cable box / STB (Set-Top-Box)satellite receiver and is connected to the TV via HDMI, only 2 CH audio will be heard from the home theatre receiver.
If you want to hear 5.1 CH audio, connectthe digital audio out jack from your DVD / Blu-ray player / cable box / STB satellite receiver directly to an amplifier or home theatre

This indicates your TV can't output 5.1 via optical from HDMI inputs, so: No.

 

[CLEEK]

I have a similar question too, my 2012 Samsung TV has Optical out, so if I connect it via HDMI to my XB1 and use my Optical Out from the TV will my Mixamp get 7.1/5.1 Surround Sound? My manual says the below:

When you connect a Digital Audio System to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL) jack, decrease the volume of both the TV and the system.
● Use the System speakers for audio.
● 5.1 CH (channel) audio is available when the TV is connected to an external device supporting 5.1 CH.
● When the receiver (home theatre) is set to on, you can hear sound output from the TV’s optical jack. When the TV is receiving a DTV signal, the TV will send 5.1 CH sound to the home theatre receiver.
When the source is a digital component such as a DVD / Bluray player / cable box / STB (Set-Top-Box)satellite receiver [XBOX] and is connected to the TV via HDMI, only 2 CH audio will be heard from the home theatre receiver.
If you want to hear 5.1 CH audio, connectthe digital audio out jack from your DVD / Blu-ray player / cable box / STB satellite receiver directly to an amplifier or home theatre

That says your TV doesn't do 5.1 pass-through, so you won't get 5.1 from your Xbone. It only outputs surround over optical when the source is the TV itself (i.e. an OTA TV show).

 

[The Xtortionist]

So how the heck am I supposed to get Dolby Digital 5.1 to my Astro Mixamp. Can the Panasonic S60 carry DD5.1 through the optical out?

 

[CLEEK]

So how the heck am I supposed to get Dolby Digital 5.1 to my Astro Mixamp.

MS have a console for that. The Xbox 360.

 

[Jezbollah]

This is pretty crappy for those who use Dolby 5.1 soundbars with optical inputs only.

 

[kinggroin]

The vast majority of TVs only carry stereo audio on their optical ports, you'd have to be exceptionally lucky to own one of the few sets that carry 5.1. Plugging into the console is the only viable option, unfortunately not with Xbone.

*strokes his Sammy plasma

 

[Daffy Duck]

Well I'll be damned.

I hope this shit gets sorted, but I can't imagine they will do this quickly.

 

[c3t]

MS have a console for that. The Xbox 360.

Now that I'm bitter after hearing about this optical problem. I agree with this. Sigh.

 

[Terbinator]

The point of the "Dolby Headphone" function of the Mixamp is to create an actual 5.1 soundstage from 5.1 input - virtual "room environment" from stereo sources is not why people buy these systems.

I didn't say it was the point, only that he should still be bale to get something a bit 'better' than 'just' stereo via the Dolby Headphone function.

 

[c3t]

I didn't say it was the point, only that he should still be bale to get something a bit 'better' than 'just' stereo via the Dolby Headphone function.

It won't suffice. Especially not for me. I like my audio.

#firstworldproblems

 

[sja_626]

Your device still needs to support Dolby Digital 5.1 via HDMI, so you won't get surround audio on your headphones from the Wii U. But yes, your AV receiver can output Dolby 5.1 via optical - your new setup is just fine and the type of operation AV receivers are made for.

I think you misunderstood my setup a little. I'm not outputting from the receiver via optical, it doesn't even have one (actually I think optical out is very rare on modern receivers?). I'm outputting plain old stereo through the headphone jack. But the receiver is definitely doing some processing on this to create some kind of virtual surround (much like I assume the headphone transmitter would do when receiving a digital signal). Then I'm pumping this output into the analog line-in on the headphone transmitter.

What I'm wondering is it feasible that this could sound as good as the old setup? Or am I hearing things.

And if the receiver can do virtual surround on Dolby Digital 5.1 via the headphone jack then what's stopping it from doing the same with LPCM or DTS?

 

[Fried Food]

FUCK YOU M$

This pisses me off. Their taking an extra hundred from us but they can't afford to keep existing tech in the box. you suck!

 

[Terbinator]

It won't suffice. Especially not for me. I like my audio.

#firstworldproblems

In that case i'm not sure you were going about it in the right way to begin with

...But the receiver is definitely doing some processing on this to create some kind of virtual surround (much like I assume the headphone transmitter would do when receiving a digital signal). Then I'm pumping this output into the analog line-in on the headphone transmitter...

Likely to be Dolby Pro Logic of sorts i would imagine.

With headphones? For me personally, a home theater setup isn't an option.

Dolby Headphone from the MixAmp. I've got one hear and personally, i just find myself sticking to stereo.

 

[The Xtortionist]

In that case i'm not sure you were going about it in the right way to begin with

With headphones? For me personally, a home theater setup isn't an option.

 

[netBuff]

I think you misunderstood my setup a little. I'm not outputting from the receiver via optical, it doesn't even have one (actually I think optical out is very rare on modern receivers?). I'm outputting plain old stereo through the headphone jack. But the receiver is definitely doing some processing on this to create some kind of virtual surround (much like I assume the headphone transmitter would do when receiving a digital signal). Then I'm pumping this output into the analog line-in on the headphone transmitter.

What I'm wondering is it feasible that this could sound as good as the old setup? Or am I hearing things.

And if the receiver can do virtual surround on Dolby Digital 5.1 via the headphone jack then what's stopping it from doing the same with LPCM or DTS?

While you're adding in an additional analog step, the sound quality is probably reasonably similar: The only way to know is to trust the judgment of your own ears, if you're happy with it it's acceptable

Some receivers have Dolby Headphone (Marantz) or similar technology like Silent Cinema (Yamaha) support, if your receiver has virtual surround for headphones as a feature you're good to go even with non-Dolby sources like the Wii U.

 

[MikeHattsu]

Can someone help me out here.

My tv has an optical out port and here's what the manual says about it:

"You can enjoy your Home theater by connecting a dolby digital (5.1 channel decoder) and "Multi Channel" amplifier to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminals"

Does this mean I could connect the XBONE to the tv via HDMI, and then connect to the TV to the astro mixamp via optical? Would this let the mixamp process out the dolby 5.1 signal (like what happens with the 360)

This is a Panasonic TV isn't it? Then AFAIK no.

 

[Faceache]

I'd take a guess that this is down to the Xbox having the HDMI IN port, which it has to decode the audio for, and re transmit to whatever receiver it's connected to for audio/video output. The HDCP spec of HDMI would restrict the re-encoding of 5.1 audio for output to non-HDCP receivers (i.e via optical) and instead transmit downmixed 2.1ch audio.

That's pretty much why the optical out port of TV's wont pass through 5.1 audio from HDMI sources but will do for content it decodes itself, such as TV broadcasts.

Of course, i could be completely wrong

 

[netBuff]

Likely to be Dolby Pro Logic of sorts i would imagine.

If his receiver doesn't have a "virtual surround for headphones"-type feature and he's just getting Pro Logic, channel separation is notably worse: Then he's better of directly plugging his decoder into the optical port than going through the receiver.

 

[BigTnaples]

What the fuck.

Seriously?

My XP Sevens and BF4 on PS4 are bliss.

Would of like to use them on forza 5 this weekend. Whatever. Can't keep up with all the MS failure.

 

[Daffy Duck]

I'd take a guess that this is down to the Xbox having the HDMI IN port, which it has to decode the audio for, and re transmit to whatever receiver it's connected to for audio/video output. The HDCP spec of HDMI would restrict the re-encoding of 5.1 audio for output to non-HDCP receivers (i.e via optical) and instead transmit downmixed 2.1ch audio.

That's pretty much why the optical out port of TV's wont pass through 5.1 audio from HDMI sources but will do for content it decodes itself, such as TV broadcasts.

Of course, i could be completely wrong

So it's something that could never be sorted out?

Why MS, WHY!?!?!?

 

[Terbinator]

I'd take a guess that this is down to the Xbox having the HDMI IN port...

But games played form within the system don't have anything to do with the HDMI in? There is no re-encoding needed to be done if the game ships with a DD5.1 stream?

If his receiver doesn't have a "virtual surround for headphones"-type feature and he's just getting Pro Logic, channel separation is notably worse: Then he's better of directly plugging his decoder into the optical port than going through the receiver.

Absolutely. I was just reading it as analog input -> analog output and i myself have only ever seen Pro Logic in these scenarios. It could very well be Dolby Headphone i suppose.

Edit: although it seems he does have a dedicated mode.

 

[sja_626]

If his receiver doesn't have a "virtual surround for headphones"-type feature and he's just getting Pro Logic, channel separation is notably worse: Then he's better of directly plugging his decoder into the optical port than going through the receiver.

Noticed this in the receiver manual as an advanced surround option (Pioneer VSX-923):

"PHONES SURR - When listening through headphones, you can still get the effect of overall surround"

Didn't even select this option when using the phones earlier but will definitely try it now.

 

[Fried Food]

I'd take a guess that this is down to the Xbox having the HDMI IN port, which it has to decode the audio for, and re transmit to whatever receiver it's connected to for audio/video output. The HDCP spec of HDMI would restrict the re-encoding of 5.1 audio for output to non-HDCP receivers (i.e via optical) and instead transmit downmixed 2.1ch audio.

That's pretty much why the optical out port of TV's wont pass through 5.1 audio from HDMI sources but will do for content it decodes itself, such as TV broadcasts.

Of course, i could be completely wrong

I never asked for HDMI-IN M$, please remove and give me my optical support

Wait! Isn't it possible the optical 5.1 output was missing was because Kotaku was using the HDMI INPUT? So if they didn't have anything plugged into the HDMI-IN there wouldn't be any need to restrict the optical-out for HDCP compliance. We need more info on what happens when you are using the HDMI-IN port!!

 

[c3t]

So it's something that could never be sorted out?

Why MS, WHY!?!?!?

This had me laughing for some reason.

 

[Faceache]

But games played form within the system don't have anything to do with the HDMI in? There is no re-encoding needed to be done if the game ships with a DD5.1 stream?

True, that's why it worked with the 360, but I assume the Xbone mixes game audio with the audio from the input source.

 

[jimi_dini]

The Xbox One is the new WiiU.

The Wii U doesn't even have optical out.

So I guess the Xbone is an advanced Wii U

Nice try, but no cigar Microsoft

 

[Daffy Duck]

Wait! Isn't it possible the optical 5.1 output was missing was because Kotaku was using the HDMI INPUT? So if they didn't have anything plugged into the HDMI-IN there wouldn't be any need to restrict the optical-out for HDCP compliance. We need more info on what happens when you are using the HDMI-IN port!!

Indeed, this whole thing doesn't sit right with me. Guess it's one of those insignificant details to MS that won't get talked about addressed.

 

[Fried Food]

True, that's why it worked with the 360, but I assume the Xbone mixes game audio with the audio from the input source.

So what happens if there is no input source being used?

 

[Faceache]

So what happens if there is no input source being used?

No idea.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Think we just need to wait and see what happens on Friday when they are not connected to complicated setups, christ the reviewer even says his setup is peculiar, and then get an idea of what exactly is going.

Surely if it's a compliance issue of not being able to re-code the source it makes sense why it's limited, but if the console is the source it should work.

 

[Ilaylowfoshow]

Me personally, this will not affect me.....I use a pair of Turtle Beaches with my Yamaha Receiver and run everything (360, PS3, PC) through it with Silent Cinema......I can understand this being a problem with folks who don't have a receiver and have to use a mixamp to get the simulated 5.1/7.1 output

 

[c3t]

Me personally, this will not affect me.....I use a pair of Turtle Beaches with my Yamaha Receiver and run everything (360, PS3, PC) through it with Silent Cinema......I can understand this being a problem with folks who don't have a receiver and have to use a mixamp to get the simulated 5.1/7.1 output

It kind of makes me regret lending my receiver to my Dad, but oh well.