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[Evo_Nine]

Can't believe I didn't see this gif before. Incredible!

Definitely hilarious, but fake.

 

[AstroNut325]

Not sure where to ask this but is there a comprehensive list of features that DO NOT require XBL Gold for the X1?

 

[Raist]

Just because the market thinks they are the best doesn't mean they are. Your view completely ignores marketing, peer pressure, brand value, etc. Like I said, it's blinkered.

OK so, iPhones and Samsung phones aren't the best.
Then, which phones are the best, says who, and by which metric?

 

[Replicant]

Definitely hilarious, but fake.

The full, real GIF is better (in that horrifying kind of way) anyway:

For example, people hate being different. There have been studies that show that people are more likely to recycle if everyone on their street is doing it because they don't want to be seen as different. Likewise, when looking at a Zune or an iPod (old comparison but bear with me), people are going to factor in what a muppet they are going to look like even if the Zune is the better product.

Now I've heard everything. I'm guessing you also believe in Ancient Aliens?

 

[netBuff]

Just because the market thinks they are the best doesn't mean they are. Your view completely ignores marketing, peer pressure, brand value, etc. Like I said, it's blinkered.

You are wrong, iPhones and Samsung phones are the best smartphones available on the market.

people are going to factor in what a muppet they are going to look like even if the Zune is the better product.

The Zune was a terrible product (especially for podcasting aficionados like me), and much too little too late: It launched in an era where people were switching to their smartphones for media playback and offered absolutely nothing in functionality that was better than the iPod (shocking that no one actually cared about "squirting" your songs out for three playbacks on another Zune as well as the "squircle" for controlling the interface!)

So again, the market leader isn't necessarily the better product. It's just the one that everyone is buying. You're making a correlation that isn't there.

EDIT: Just look at the issue here. Half of the problem isn't even what Microsoft is offering, but that they're fighting an uphill battle because they're seen as the big bad wolf who tried to take our used games away.

The Xbone is a bad product: Significantly less powerful than the PS4 while being $100 more expensive. Much of the Xbone's core functionality doesn't work properly or has significant drawbacks, future prospects for Sony's machine are better with their established first party studios and PlayStation Plus that has proven to be a much better deal than Gold.

Even disregarding Microsoft's past behaviour, everything is in favour of the the PS4 being the logical choice.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

I went to gamestop to pick up killzone and knack this morning (Resogun is awesome, but there is only so much of that you can play before you get a seizure...) and they were sold out on BOTH PS4'S and Xbox Ones. He said both consoles are selling out like hot cakes the moment they get any shipments, but he's had more people walking-in inquiring about the PS4.

 

[oconnomiyaki]

That's just shoving an irrelevant personal opinion into the equation.

Then the whole argument is moot, isn't it? What's the better anything? Coke tastes better than Pepsi blah blah.

But that's the thing. There's so much more to it than that. It's not about the market saying "That's the better product," and picking it. That's having waaaaaay too much faith in people.

 

[MOPP 4]

I don't see how MSFT can hang with Sony in worldwide sales this time. They may not be able to keep up in US/UK. They'll get curb stomped in the rest of Europe. And we know they're almost completely DoA in the far east.

I think at this point MS might just take the path of "fuck it we'll win in America", it'll be a repeat of the PS3/360. PS3 beating the 360 every week worldwide but MS always bragging about being first in NA.

I just don't know how they'll spin it this time when they're losing worldwide from the very start. From the looks of first month numbers, MS might have lost everywhere except NA.

 

[jayu26]

Not sure where to ask this but is there a comprehensive list of features that DO NOT require XBL Gold for the X1?

That list is going to be very short.

 

[Chobel]

From a revenue stand point they don't have to. At their current price points ($399vs$499) for ever 2 million Sony sells MS needs to sell 1.6 million to generate the same revenue. Both will develop large enough install bases to assure publishers of AAA games (like GTA) that million can be sold on each platform.

That's not how it works. Selling $399/$499 console doesn't mean they're getting 399$/$499 profit, because you know these consoles don't come from thin air, making these consoles costs money.

 

[CrankyKong]

Xbox One is available but in limited quanities where I live in Aus.
PS4 is wiped out until early 2014.

Im getting kinda nervous because I planned on getting one in Feb, but it might not be available then either.

 

[StudioTan]

The reason is obvious. They were reputation managing like crazy, to just get over the line until the console was on sale. Using calming words to ease the folks who had pre-orders, and hopefully convincing others that the the Xbox was a worthwhile purchase.

Everything they said said prior to the Xbone being available - all their claims, justifications and reasoning - could only be taken at face value, as the end user didn't know for sure.

But you can't put spin on facts and actual end suer experiences. So once the Xbone released, and face/offs started happening, owners started experiencing the broken UI, dodgy scaling etc, they stopped posting.

Or, you know, they probably worked crazy hours leading up to launch and they got some time off after launch? I know the console wars are 24/7 here but these are jobs for people, not their whole lives. I love my job but I also enjoy taking time off to recharge.

 

[Gurrry]

You are wrong, iPhones and Samsung phones are the best smartphones available on the market.



The Zune was a terrible product (especially for podcasting aficionados like me), and much too little too late: It launched in an era where people were switching to their smartphones for media playback and offered absolutely nothing in functionality that was better than the iPod (shocking that no one actually cared about "squirting" your songs out for three playbacks on another Zune as well as the "squircle" for controlling the interface!)



The Xbone is a bad product: Significantly less powerful than the PS4 while being $100 more expensive. Much of the Xbone's core functionality doesn't work properly or has significant drawbacks, future prospects for Sony's machine are better with their established first party studios and PlayStation Plus that has proven to be a much better deal than Gold.

Even disregarding Microsoft's past behaviour, everything is in favour of the the PS4 being the logical choice.

 

[Y2Kev]

Then the whole argument is moot, isn't it? What's the better anything? Coke tastes better than Pepsi blah blah.

But that's the thing. There's so much more to it than that. It's not about the market saying "That's the better product," and picking it. That's having waaaaaay too much faith in people.

Your problem is that you obviously don't believe in markets and you think people are not rational actors.

I'm not going to square the circle on this one.

 

[Alebrije]

I bet MS will reduce Xbone price before Sony does the same with PS4, ps4 is selling like pancakes in every country it launched ( Well, maybe not in Brazil).

I bet a lot of people that got Xbone in black friday did it because they did not find PS4 , they needed to jump to next gen at any cost.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

The full, real GIF is better (in that horrifying kind of way) anyway:

Now I've heard everything. I'm guessing you also believe in Ancient Aliens?

That first guy made such a huge mistake.

 

[Sakura]

I think at this point MS might just take the path of "fuck it we'll win in America", it'll be a repeat of the PS3/360. PS3 beating the 360 every week worldwide but MS always bragging about being first in NA.

I just don't know how they'll spin it this time when they're losing worldwide from the very start. From the looks of first month numbers, MS might have lost everywhere except NA.

I'm pretty confident MS won't win in America either.

 

[Replicant]

Xbox One is available but in limited quanities where I live in Aus.

That listing has *always* been available ever since our launch on the 22nd. That's a full 2 weeks of supply that's not drying up anytime soon. Not then. Not now.

That first guy made such a huge mistake.

He recovered quickly though. Didn't even let the guy behind him to gain a lead.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I'm dying..

 

[PhatSaqs]

Now I've heard everything. I'm guessing you also believe in Ancient Aliens?

Zune HD was indeed better than Ipod. Just sayin.

 

[oconnomiyaki]

Your problem is that you obviously don't believe in markets and you think people are not rational actors.

I'm not going to square the circle on this one.

That's fine, but as I said, there's plenty of documentation on how to exploit the human psyche in these matters. Again, your view is too blinkered and ignores a lot of human nature. We want to fit in. We want to be the same.

I remember getting a Sega Saturn back in high school. I bought it because it had the better version of Street Fighter Alpha 2 and I was a Sega fan. I got to school and I was quite literally shunned because I was so "stupid" to pick a Saturn over a PlayStation. I went home and cried.

It takes a very, very brave person to look outside the status quo and not many people do. It's not that people look at the iPhone and Galaxy S4 and go "Those are the better phones." They go "Those are popular phones that everyone has and I need a new phone so I'll guess I'll get one of them."

Microsoft's woes have nothing to do with whether they have the better product or not or even whether the market considers them to or not. The problem they have is that everyone is treating them like an ex-girlfriend who cheated on them. They have an image problem that is going to be very, very hard to overcome.

EDIT: But in this case, we are obviously just going to eternally disagree, so I agree it's best to just leave it.

 

[MOPP 4]

I'm pretty confident MS won't win in America either.

We'll find out in less than a week, heh. If the Black Friday reports are to be believed and if it's true that Sony hasn't resupplied America since launch...it wouldn't surprise me if Xbox One outsold PS4 the first month.

No one wants to give out numbers after Black Friday so I guess it's anyone's game.

 

[Chobel]

Your problem is that you obviously don't believe in markets and you think people are not rational actors.

I'm not going to square the circle on this one.

His problem is that he wants Xbox One (or apparently anything by MS) to be the best product, so he justifies it by any means.

Am I being trolled

No, he's just a true believer.

 

[Y2Kev]

Am I being trolled

 

[jiggle]

one guy grabbed 2
that f**k

 

[Replicant]

Am I being trolled

It's oconnomiyaki. What did you expect?

 

[oconnomiyaki]

His problem is that he wants Xbox One (or apparently anything by MS) to be the best product, so he justifies it by any means.

I don't need to the Xbox One to be the best product. I don't even need it to sell well. As I said, what I am tired of seeing is people celebrating Sony's success and treating this whole thing like their favourite sports team just won the match because they scored a goal in the first five minutes.

I hate corporate worship regardless of the industry.

 

[netBuff]

Zune HD was indeed better than Ipod. Just sayin.

No, it wasn't. The terrible and lacklustre podcasting directory alone made the device a pain to use, and nothing else was better than what the iPod had on offer either - interface navigation and design was especially terrible for such a small screen.

Microsoft's woes have nothing to do with whether they have the better product or not or even whether the market considers them to or not. The problem they have is that everyone is treating them like an ex-girlfriend who cheated on them. They have an image problem that is going to be very, very hard to overcome.

EDIT: But in this case, we are obviously just going to eternally disagree, so I agree it's best to just leave it.

Microsoft is trying to sell a significantly worse console (Xbone) for a higher price than the direct competition (PS4). They are marketing Xbone like hell, but still don't seem to be having as much success as the better product enjoys: Microsoft's image problem stems from them trying to sell an underpowered, uninteresting machine that is broken in many aspects.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Am I being trolled

No no you're not

oconnomiyaki just really really dislikes PS exclusives

Like a lot which is totally like his prerogative and stuff

 

[shinra-bansho]

Just because the market thinks they are the best doesn't mean they are.

So again, the market leader isn't necessarily the better product. It's just the one that everyone is buying. You're making a correlation that isn't there.

They're the best/better product for the broad market. Whether or not you personally think they're the best or whether they have lessor battery life or whether they don't have a particular feature is irrelevant.

This is like when people get their panties in a twist when someone says that the Wii U and Vita are bad products [for the market] which they are, but instead interpret that as saying they're poor quality products.

Microsoft's woes have nothing to do with whether they have the better product or not or even whether the market considers them to or not. The problem they have is that everyone is treating them like an ex-girlfriend who cheated on them. They have an image problem that is going to be very, very hard to overcome

Or it could just be they're offering a huge ass box that basically does the same thing as the PS4 and selling it for $100 more. But you're right, the mother shopping for a Christmas present is clearly too blinded by her hatred of DRM to think straight.

 

[El_Mau]

That listing has *always* been available ever since our launch on the 22nd. That's a full 2 weeks of supply that's not drying up anytime soon. Not then. Not now.



He recovered quickly though. Didn't even let the guy behind him to gain a lead.

Well, he didn't said it was selling, just that there are small quantities.

 

[TheOMan]

Just because the market thinks they are the best doesn't mean they are. Your view completely ignores marketing, peer pressure, brand value, etc. Like I said, it's blinkered.

For example, people hate being different. There have been studies that show that people are more likely to recycle if everyone on their street is doing it because they don't want to be seen as different. Likewise, when looking at a Zune or an iPod (old comparison but bear with me), people are going to factor in what a muppet they are going to look like even if the Zune is the better product.

So again, the market leader isn't necessarily the better product. It's just the one that everyone is buying. You're making a correlation that isn't there.

EDIT: Just look at the issue here. Half of the problem isn't even what Microsoft is offering, but that they're fighting an uphill battle because they're seen as the big bad wolf who tried to take our used games away.

Not that I agree or disagree with you, but it makes me think of the question: Who decides what is the best or better product? Is it objective or subjective?

The other half of the problem (for me at least) *is* what Microsoft is offering in terms of a value proposition especially when compared to their direct competitor (who is at a cheaper price point to boot). Their memory architecture is lacking comparitively and demonstrably and I don't like paying more for less.

The uphill battle is also on Microsoft, nobody else. Don't peddle horrible policies for your customers and guess what? You don't have to fight uphill battles. "Oh but they got rid of the bad policies". Yeah, they did, thankfully, but when somebody tries to do something horrible to you, you ask them not to do so, and they only begrudgingly change their mind, it's only natural to be a little wary of them in the future.

(As an aside, I don't think MS is fighting that big an uphill battle as the X1 seems to be selling quite briskly).

 

[dmr87]

one guy grabbed 2
that f**k

Scalpers gotta scalp.

 

[Finalizer]

Microsoft's woes have nothing to do with whether they have the better product or not or even whether the market considers them to or not. The problem they have is that everyone is treating them like an ex-girlfriend who cheated on them. They have an image problem that is going to be very, very hard to overcome.

At this point, you're just trying to find some boogeyman to place the blame on in case the Xbone does underperform in sales at all, in order to shift the blame away from whatever MS may have done wrong and onto a marketplace you personally deem irrational for [reasons].

Am I being trolled

am i on /v/ yet

 

[netBuff]

I don't need to the Xbox One to be the best product. I don't even need it to sell well. As I said, what I am tired of seeing is people celebrating Sony's success and treating this whole thing like their favourite sports team just won the match because they scored a goal in the first five minutes.

I hate corporate worship regardless of the industry.

So why don't you like people applauding the success of Sony's better product?

It takes a very, very brave person to look outside the status quo and not many people do. It's not that people look at the iPhone and Galaxy S4 and go "Those are the better phones." They go "Those are popular phones that everyone has and I need a new phone so I'll guess I'll get one of them."

People see these phones are popular because other people before them have determined they are good and are, therefore, attractive to them as well. That seems like a rational choice.

 

[Replicant]

Well, he didn't said it was selling, just that there are small quantities.

And how'd one ascertain that quantity? Granted, it's Australia. We probably didn't even get many to begin with. But in that case, for it to not even selling out after the first few days, let alone 2 weeks says a lot.

 

[krypt0nian]

Am I being trolled

I hope so. The other answer makes me fear for humanity.

 

[Prince Vultan]

I was in my packed out local HMV earlier this evening and they had a whole bunch of Xbones in stock. So many in fact that one member of staff actually put a couple of them on the ground to use as elevation to stand on to announce to the store via megaphone that they had no more stock of PS4s. Store cleared out in seconds. True story.

Spoiler

May not be true story.

I remember getting a Sega Saturn back in high school. I bought it because it had the better version of Street Fighter Alpha 2 and I was a Sega fan. I got to school and I was quite literally shunned because I was so "stupid" to pick a Saturn over a PlayStation. I went home and cried.

This explains a lot.

 

[Slashlen]

Not that I agree or disagree with you, but it makes me think of the question: Who decides what is the best or better product? Is it objective or subjective?

oconnomiyaki decides such things, apparently. I should probably start asking what car I should buy, or if it's time to get married.

 

[oconnomiyaki]

But you're right, the mother shopping for a Christmas present is clearly to blinded by her hatred of DRM.

Because there are so many mothers in those gifs of consumers acting like vultures over a carcass.

The real irony with all this is that there will be a PS4 underneath my TV some time in 2014, so this isn't a hatred of Sony or some need for Microsoft to reign supreme. I just really, really hate this idea that corporations are sports teams or best friends and that when they have a good quarterly statement and can give a good dividend that it's something we should be happy about.

 

[ZoddGutts]

I wish people would just ignore oconnomiyaki, he's derailed two topics now with he's nonsense argument.

 

[Megatonne]

The PS4 essentially sold 2.1 million in two days. 1 million on launch day in the U.S. and another 1+ million on it's Europe launch date which happened to be black Friday in the U.S, Incredible sales..

Xbone sales aren't bad by any means but they are not clearing stock as fast. I saw some at target today as well

 

[Cow Goes Moo]

I just really, really hate this idea that corporations are sports teams or best friends and that when they have a good quarterly statement and can give a good dividend that it's something we should be happy about.

Why wouldn't you want your product of choice/ product you bought to succeed?

 

[Sakura]

It takes a very, very brave person to look outside the status quo and not many people do. It's not that people look at the iPhone and Galaxy S4 and go "Those are the better phones." They go "Those are popular phones that everyone has and I need a new phone so I'll guess I'll get one of them."

What? I don't think it is like that at all. I bought a Zune instead of an iPod because it was cheaper and it does exactly what I want it to do. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody looks at me and goes "What the hell, you bought a Zune!? That's SO unpopular." Likewise I bought an Xperia Play because I don't like Apple products and it had a controller which I thought was cool. Nobody cares. My friends with iPhones just look at it and think it's neat that it has a controller. I don't think the market buys things just because they are popular even if they are inferior products. They buy what they think is the best product for them.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

I just really, really hate this idea that corporations are sports teams or best friends and that when they have a good quarterly statement and can give a good dividend that it's something we should be happy about.

PS4 owners shouldn't be happy that the console has been selling extremely well, which will lead publishers and developers to it, therefore giving them more games and more variety?

 

[Toki767]

The PS4 essentially sold 2.1 million in two days. 1 million on launch day in the U.S. and another 1+ million on it's Europe launch date which happened to be black Friday in the U.S, Incredible sales..

Xbone sales aren't bad by any means but they are not clearing stock as fast. I saw some at target today as well

Nah, they only sold like 700K or something on the EU launch I think. The other 400k was from more stock to North America or even Australia since I don't think that's counted for EU right?.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Because there are so many mothers in those gifs of consumers acting like vultures over a carcass.

The real irony with all this is that there will be a PS4 underneath my TV some time in 2014, so this isn't a hatred of Sony or some need for Microsoft to reign supreme. I just really, really hate this idea that corporations are sports teams or best friends and that when they have a good quarterly statement and can give a good dividend that it's something we should be happy about.

You think those gifs are and will be the only people buying these systems in the Holiday season? You think that everyone in those gifs is just embittered about DRM, rather than getting the product that shock horror they see more value in?

There's no grand market conspiracy against the Xbox One, it's $100 more and hasn't shown why it's $100 more in any compelling fashion. If it sells less, it will be because it doesn't offer the consumer market enough reason to buy it over the competition.

That's competition.

You want to make this competition out to be something that is "unfair" towards Microsoft's product. It's not. You want to pretend that forces are at play beyond natural market forces, and that everyone is being irrational in their consumption of a product. They aren't.

Meanwhile, since you want to bring psychology and value into this discussion, people want other people to buy the products they buy. It increases the product's value to them. Network effects.

 

[Abounder]

When it comes to enthusiasts I think XB1 has an uphill battle, and we saw that with the IGN polls and the PS4's forum presence. When it comes to casuals, that +$100 pricetag also makes it more difficult. For what it's worth on BF4stats.com, the PS4 userbase usually has at least +4000 more users online than XB1

Personally both systems are sold out here, however from my own circle of friends and a GAF poll we think both consoles are pretty underwhelming and waiting until at least Infamous or Titanfall releases although it''ll be hard to resist the splurge to buy one if I can find one online in USA (from retail)

 

[Megatonne]

Nah, they only sold like 700K or something on the EU launch I think. The other 400k was from more stock to North America or even Australia since I don't think that's counted for EU right?.

Right. Idk what the specific numbers were but the combination of the EU launch and Black Friday in the US (same date) was another million. Overall the thing has only been on shelves two calendar days really. It's been "sold out" the rest of the time

 

[Prince Vultan]

PS4 owners shouldn't be happy that the console has been selling extremely well, which will lead publishers and developers to it, therefore giving them more games and more variety?

I don't think you understand how things work in the real world, wise guy!