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GamesRadar: Its time for Nintendo to admit defeat and make a true next-gen console
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
FlashbladeGAF
Member
GAMESRADAR said:
Didn't fall for click bait so all I have to go off of is the quotes. Does the journalist mention the marketing in his article?
Or is he just referring to the hardcore and not the masses?
Or is he just ignoring certain facts to drive home his point?
The Wii U S, and then in 6 months, The Wii U 2 and then the Wii U 2S. And then to spike stuff up, the Wii U 2C!!!!
But really, the Wii U in itself is great. It's simple and have the less convoluted UI of all the consoles. I mean the Xbox UI is awful and the Ps4 UI is meh. It's awesome for kids and should sell more than it does.
Version 3.0
Member
True. But what will?
A new console - now or 4 years from now - is just going to have the same lack of developer support and tepid consumer response.
Going mobile is a popular answer, but that's a suicide pill. Short term gain (investors would love it), long term guaranteed death.
Going 3rd party gives up all the advantages that come with exclusivity.
A console / handheld hybrid potentially cuts their market in half (although there are good arguments to be made for this scenario).
The more I think about it, the more I think the best thing for Nintendo to do is stop making home consoles, but not just become another 3rd party. They should try to cut a deal to become an exclusive partner with either Sony or Microsoft. No license fees. Equal billing. Maybe even a Nintendo-branded version of the console.
Do the same with the handheld line - parner up. Give their partner free publishing, equal billing, a branded version of the machine.
Bill Rizer
Member
They can comfortably launch a new home console around Xmas 2016. Nintendo tipically keep their console artificially alive for about one further year after their natural life cicle, with no more relevant software coming out. Every damn time, this makes them losing momentum and interest for their new launching hardware (and no, Wii is not an exception because no one had bet 2 cents on its success before launch).
So if this time they hurry up a bit with their lazy schedule, and start moving late WiiU projects onto new hardware asap (anything after Zelda U I'd say), they can do it.
So if this time they hurry up a bit with their lazy schedule, and start moving late WiiU projects onto new hardware asap (anything after Zelda U I'd say), they can do it.
JordanN
Banned
The Wii didn't get much better graphics than the Xbox and it was out for many years.
Wii U may not be completely maxed out but I wouldn't surprised if it already hit certain walls (i.e 720p). Hasn't the CPU also been criticized? That's not good for longevity either.
It would have to be accompanied by a good PR reveal, advertisements, and a solid lineup of games that excel as both tech demos and games themselves to not only draw in the interest of gamers, but developers as well.
dream
Member
Well, the flippant--but probably true--answer is "what core customers?" There are so few Wii U owners that it shouldn't be that big of a concern for Nintendo.
But I think many Nintendo fans--certainly the ones who bought a Wii U--tend to be dogmatically loyal to the company ("Nintendo magic," etc.), and I'm not convinced this couldn't be smoothed over with some sort of Ambassador Program redux.
Pretty much. It would hurt them even more by destroying the fanbase further.
It's pathetic how many people are suggesting this is a good idea.
There is no "behind" because Nintendo is decidedly not running "the race". But there is a game, a long game and Nintendo isn't in the worst position in that.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Power is not Nintendo's failure.
As with the launch of any new hardware, having a sustainable software ecosystem that produces games that early adopters want and the market who will purchase games on a regular basis. The launch for the Wii U was fine, the problem was that there was a huge software drought that killed all momentum.
The lack of software is because:
First Party - Nintendo was not used to High Definition development and didn't have a developed library of game engines, graphical know how, and a mature system to create high definition games on regular software intervals. Even now, after eight years, most of the Japanese development houses still doesn't have a handle of it. Nintendo's was worst because they had to make a generation transition without the eight previous years of trouble that their fellow Japanese developers have to deal with.
Third Party - Nintendo's software ecosystem dominates their platform, and third party sales suffer as a result. This leads to a cycle of "Nintendo Apathy" where they do not put their top-tier teams to work on the console. Thus the games tend to be more poorly developed and they sell poorly. Then the publishing houses see the pitiful sales put less budget on Nintendo games. This cycles continues until we see what we see today, where Nintendo doesn't get important third party mutiplatform games that would bolster its software library.
When you have a first party that is having difficulty coping with the transition to High-Definition development, and third party companies who doesn't see a software ecosystem that buys their games, thus gives little support leaves the Nintendo Wii U in the situation it in now.
Doing the jump for Wii U/Wii 2 from Wii to PS4/XBone level WOULD NOT FIX NINTENDO'S PROBLEMS, IN FACT IT WOULD HAVE MADE THEM WORSE with rising development costs a lack of HD development experience and apathetic third party ecosystem and support. Nintendo's failure is that they didn't make the Wii powerful enough to handle High Definition development, so they do not have the experience and processes to make regular HD software to support a console.
As with the launch of any new hardware, having a sustainable software ecosystem that produces games that early adopters want and the market who will purchase games on a regular basis. The launch for the Wii U was fine, the problem was that there was a huge software drought that killed all momentum.
The lack of software is because:
First Party - Nintendo was not used to High Definition development and didn't have a developed library of game engines, graphical know how, and a mature system to create high definition games on regular software intervals. Even now, after eight years, most of the Japanese development houses still doesn't have a handle of it. Nintendo's was worst because they had to make a generation transition without the eight previous years of trouble that their fellow Japanese developers have to deal with.
Third Party - Nintendo's software ecosystem dominates their platform, and third party sales suffer as a result. This leads to a cycle of "Nintendo Apathy" where they do not put their top-tier teams to work on the console. Thus the games tend to be more poorly developed and they sell poorly. Then the publishing houses see the pitiful sales put less budget on Nintendo games. This cycles continues until we see what we see today, where Nintendo doesn't get important third party mutiplatform games that would bolster its software library.
When you have a first party that is having difficulty coping with the transition to High-Definition development, and third party companies who doesn't see a software ecosystem that buys their games, thus gives little support leaves the Nintendo Wii U in the situation it in now.
Doing the jump for Wii U/Wii 2 from Wii to PS4/XBone level WOULD NOT FIX NINTENDO'S PROBLEMS, IN FACT IT WOULD HAVE MADE THEM WORSE with rising development costs a lack of HD development experience and apathetic third party ecosystem and support. Nintendo's failure is that they didn't make the Wii powerful enough to handle High Definition development, so they do not have the experience and processes to make regular HD software to support a console.
DoubleDash
Neo Member
I bought a Wii U at launch and honestly I'd be OK with it. I thinks its obvious by now that Nintendo miscalculated with the GamePad. It's got some cool features like offline play and I thought it had promise but overall Nintendo doesn't even seem to know what they're doing with it.
One of Nintendo's biggest strengths was always creating games that perfectly fit and showed off the features of there controller.
Mario 64 - analog stick
Ocarina - z button
Star Fox - Rumble Pack
Luigi's mansion - digital triggers, 2nd analog stick.
Wii Sports - Motion Controls
Metroid Prime 3 - IR Pointer Controls.
We're over a year into the Wii U's lifetime and their biggest games don't even need the gamepad. And I don't think the future looks bright on this front either.
Pikmin 3 - better with wii-remote
Wind Waker HD - playable with wii u pro.
Mario 3D World - gamepad only required for a handful of levels (feels tacked on). Also playable with pro controller and wii remotes.
Mario Kart 8 - Use the Gamepad to beep the horn?
DKTF - I'm sure gamepad isn't required for this either.
We're paying 100 extra bucks for a controller that's usually not necessary or half-assedly used.
The Wii U controller situation is a clusterfuck right now. Every game has 4-5 different controllers. Gone are the days when Nintendo finely tuned their games to a controller. Now we have run buttons and 8 way movement being forced into 3D Mario because they NEED to have a wii remote only controller option. It's a mess. Right now we have 4 controllers with completely different for 1 system. They need to perfect ONE controller for 1 system.
So yeah, If Nintendo created a new system with one controller and gave me credit and a game towards a new system I'd be happy.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Nintendo also needs to get their ass in gear with their hardware launches. There's been a lot of talk over how underwhelming the new next gen launches were, and they need to avoid this.
A new flagship Mario game at launch is yesterday's news. I think it would be wiser to launch with Animal Crossing and Mariokart. Those two games together would pack a huge wallop. Make sure they're ready day one.
Keep online free, but introduce a PS+ knockoff where you pay $50 a year and are offered a new Nintendo classic each month. Tie this service into your next handheld so it spans both.
A new flagship Mario game at launch is yesterday's news. I think it would be wiser to launch with Animal Crossing and Mariokart. Those two games together would pack a huge wallop. Make sure they're ready day one.
Keep online free, but introduce a PS+ knockoff where you pay $50 a year and are offered a new Nintendo classic each month. Tie this service into your next handheld so it spans both.
Ding ding. Winner.
zerokoolpsx
Member
It would hurt Nintendo's credibility if they released a new console right now or within a year. Gotta moneyhat those devs to make games for the core gamers. The Wii U desperately needs more third party support.
MisterHero
Super Member
It goes along with this bipolar mindset
"Wii U has no games!"
"Why must Wii U have games I want on other systems?"
Maidenpool?
Member
What about going mobile in five years when the tech is good enough (i'm talking tablet tech) to run current Wii U games?
I don't mean to tinfoil hat the s*** out of this - but what if the Wii U is a dry run to develop tablet friendly games for a market that by 2017 is expected to be 900 million people strong?
Zombie James
Banned
I agree. Cut your losses, ditch the gimmicks, and build a true next-gen console with the right audience in mind.
Sakura
Member
It's a good thing people writing these articles don't run these companies. That would be an absolutely terrible decision. Nintendo just drop what they are doing and start pouring cash into pumping out another console ASAP? Yea right. They would lose far too much money doing that especially when it isn't exactly guaranteed that the successor system would be a success. They've already got the Wii U out. It makes waaaaaay more sense to keep supporting that, keep putting out first party games which will make them money, and let the system go for about 5 years before moving onto the next generation.
If you abandon your hardware after just 2 years, you are going to seriously alienate your market. They would have to pretty much end support for the Wii U now to focus everything on getting the games and hardware ready for 2015. If they did this, I would not buy the next system from them. After all, what if that one sells poorly and they abandon it too?
They're going to ride out the Wii U, granted probably not as long as the last gen, because that's what makes the most sense.
If you abandon your hardware after just 2 years, you are going to seriously alienate your market. They would have to pretty much end support for the Wii U now to focus everything on getting the games and hardware ready for 2015. If they did this, I would not buy the next system from them. After all, what if that one sells poorly and they abandon it too?
They're going to ride out the Wii U, granted probably not as long as the last gen, because that's what makes the most sense.
digoutyoursoul
Member
They will not improve if any sort of criticism is deemed unacceptable
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I think those billions would be better used expanding their first party development studios personally.
If every other few weeks a new Nintendo game came out, catering to all audiences, mainstream and Niche, it wouldn't matter if 3rd parties had given up on the system.
If every other few weeks a new Nintendo game came out, catering to all audiences, mainstream and Niche, it wouldn't matter if 3rd parties had given up on the system.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Such as? As a U owner maybe I'm missing out on whatever these unique takes on genres are.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
Yes, that should do it. It's the same line of thinking that cemented Sega into superstar status. Dreamcast Tri is whipping everyone's asses with the hottest PowerVR chips.
Sectorseven
Member
Even if they started a new design from scratch right now, would it end up being much better than PS4/Xbone? I thought major leaps in (non smartphone) technology are kind of at a standstill right now.
The 3DS vs Vita thing already prove that people do not care about power that much. The PS2 was also the least powerfull of the console war and won. The Wii was also the least powerful of the bunch. The only thing not going for the Wii U is that people think it's a Wii Accessory. Not a console. It's really it.
Roland1979
Junior Member
People apparently have no idea how huge investments work. Dropping the Wii-U will make them loose so much money it's scary. And the Wii-U is not that old. And even if they keep losing money on it they can take it. Developing a new console will cost a fortune as well and will guarantee a console with similar specs at best. However, should they release one a few years from now they might offer a slightly more powerful console. But power is absolutely not Nintendo's biggest problem. Marketing, product awareness and support are a few of the problems that are far bigger then power.
The main problem is that their current Wii U lineup feels absolutely unimaginative. The same old and tired concepts from the Wii era, which don't excite most people anymore, together with a controller that feels tacked on and does not any major advantages (unlike the Wii Remote).
With old Japanese people at reign who seemingly never heard of buzz words such as customer orientation and who give a shit about conducting market research, I guess they will keep their Japan-centric views and ignore the real-life market conditions. Be prepared to get more Mario games next year, they still sell decently.
With old Japanese people at reign who seemingly never heard of buzz words such as customer orientation and who give a shit about conducting market research, I guess they will keep their Japan-centric views and ignore the real-life market conditions. Be prepared to get more Mario games next year, they still sell decently.
Captain Smoker
Member
*insert 20 other threads*
Dec. 02: Nintendo needs to provide an option to disable the Wii U gamepad
Dec. 02: Ninty Missing Target as Sony-MS Sales Dwarf Wii U, Neogaf's Michael Pachter quoted
Dec. 02: Rubin: "Nintendo Is Irrelevant As A Hardware Manufacturer In The Console Business
Dec. 03: Here's the Wii 2, we call it the Wii U
Dec. 03: Would it be cost effective to change the Wii U SKU to this and the functionality?
Dec. 03: "Wii U wont see another Christmas, nobody gives a shit about Mario," says dev.
Dec. 03: Should Iwata step down?
Dec. 04: Should Nintendo not have included Wii Remote compatibility for the Wii U?
Dec. 04: VG 247: Nintendo needs to reach beyond its catalogue to save Wii U
Dec. 04: IGN: Game Scoop!: The State of the Wii U
Dec. 05: Gamespot: The Point - Is the Wii U a failure?
Dec. 05: Pachter: "I don't know why Iwata is still employed"; should bring old games to mobile
Dec. 05: CHRIS KOHLER: What the Hell Is Wrong With Nintendo?
Dec. 05: Is the gaming press pushing a Wii U, dark horse agenda?
Dec. 06: GamesRadar: Its time for Nintendo to admit defeat and make a true next-gen console
Dec. 06: Nintendo in the Firing Line - Editorial from Gamesindustry
Dec. 07: Nintendo and the problem of mindshare
*insert 20 other threads*
wtf
Dec. 02: Nintendo needs to provide an option to disable the Wii U gamepad
Dec. 02: Ninty Missing Target as Sony-MS Sales Dwarf Wii U, Neogaf's Michael Pachter quoted
Dec. 02: Rubin: "Nintendo Is Irrelevant As A Hardware Manufacturer In The Console Business
Dec. 03: Here's the Wii 2, we call it the Wii U
Dec. 03: Would it be cost effective to change the Wii U SKU to this and the functionality?
Dec. 03: "Wii U wont see another Christmas, nobody gives a shit about Mario," says dev.
Dec. 03: Should Iwata step down?
Dec. 04: Should Nintendo not have included Wii Remote compatibility for the Wii U?
Dec. 04: VG 247: Nintendo needs to reach beyond its catalogue to save Wii U
Dec. 04: IGN: Game Scoop!: The State of the Wii U
Dec. 05: Gamespot: The Point - Is the Wii U a failure?
Dec. 05: Pachter: "I don't know why Iwata is still employed"; should bring old games to mobile
Dec. 05: CHRIS KOHLER: What the Hell Is Wrong With Nintendo?
Dec. 05: Is the gaming press pushing a Wii U, dark horse agenda?
Dec. 06: GamesRadar: Its time for Nintendo to admit defeat and make a true next-gen console
Dec. 06: Nintendo in the Firing Line - Editorial from Gamesindustry
Dec. 07: Nintendo and the problem of mindshare
*insert 20 other threads*
wtf
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Those customers are super loyal because Nintendo has never abandoned them. Nintendo dropping a console would be traumatic for them, and be disaster for their faithfuls. There may only be 4 million people with WiiU out in the wild, but those are Nintendo's core. Say they drop the console and pitch a new device in a year. What happens if it's not a runaway success? Those 4 million people who cushioned the WiiU, and give it a fighting chance at reaching 15-20million lifetime sales, are gone and at that moment Nintendo will learn what "dead in the water" truly means.
Edit: Nintendo has the money and means to weather this storm and still retain their core. It would be foolish to gamble it now and try to "get a new core audience" over this one failure.
Freezie KO
Banned
Agreed, but that doesn't automatically happen once Nintendo achieves power parity. They're still not getting ports from 360 and PS3.
They need to do a lot more with relationships, marketing, online, and demographics. Simply releasing a new console won't fix those problems, but it would hurt the one thing Nintendo can do, which is release games.
frankie_baby
Member
it would be stupid of Nintendo to throw in the wii u towel now BUT apart from huge amounts of ram ps4 and x bone aren't exactly the tech monsters some expected ( the x bone especially so) they could try getting a new console out early to mid 2016 giving the the U a lifespan similar to what they gave the gba, by which time it should be easy and cheap to produce a system that blows the completion out of the water, as long as they put significant expense into the controller, the ps 4 and x bone would only have had just over 2 years on the market by then and so wouldn't have built up huge installed bases by then and their successors would still be a long way off
maybe this idea is madness but i'm sure Nintendo will have at least been considering it
maybe this idea is madness but i'm sure Nintendo will have at least been considering it
Incitemaybe
Member
I like the "it just makes sense" part haha
Because it made absolutely no sense.
Because it made absolutely no sense.
Yep. I mean, guys, even Nintendo said it : they cannot compete in the tech department.
That's why they rely on : software+innovation(some would say gimmicks)
Father_Brain
Banned
Third-party sales don't suffer because first-party software is dominant. Third-party sales suffer primarily* because Nintendo has done next to nothing to convince PS3/360 owners who aren't interested in established Nintendo first-party IP to buy the system.
*not entirely; I don't dispute that there's self-fulfilling prophecy in the half-assing of many ports
Bucket-o-roadkill
Member
It's almost as if Nintendo are in the shit!...
Swauny Jones
Member
I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft or Sony make a big play and purchase Nintendo in a year or two.
Mushroomer25
Member
I can see the arguement, but now's just not the time to make it. I feel like we got similar doomsayers back when the 3DS was struggling, calling for Nintendo to throw in the towel and start making Android smartphones.
Now, if this holiday doesn't fix things? I still don't think it's in their best interest to release new hardware any sooner than 2015. They'd be establishing a precedent for killing consoles at an insanely young age, and undermining consumer confidence in the next product.
What Nintendo really needs to do right now, is just get the word out. Push their marketing budget to the limits, and get the games in front of the people. That's the only way it's going to stand out in this climate.
Now, if this holiday doesn't fix things? I still don't think it's in their best interest to release new hardware any sooner than 2015. They'd be establishing a precedent for killing consoles at an insanely young age, and undermining consumer confidence in the next product.
What Nintendo really needs to do right now, is just get the word out. Push their marketing budget to the limits, and get the games in front of the people. That's the only way it's going to stand out in this climate.
Herbspiceguy
Member
Cancelling a new console, with all the effort and cost from R&D, marketing, first and second party software developers (with quite a few promising titles on the horizon). And then expecting a new, more powerful than PS4/XB1 to be ready by Christmas 2015? Besides being very unrealistic, it would be very damaging to Nintendo.
I'm also not sure how people get the idea that a more powerful Nintendo console is going to magically get all the 3rd party publishers on board.
I'm also not sure how people get the idea that a more powerful Nintendo console is going to magically get all the 3rd party publishers on board.
Boss Man
Member
Well, you see Nintendo is a big player in the games industry and their home console is desperately struggling at best and already irrelevant at worst. You will likely see more journalists and game enthusiasts discussing this in the future as well.
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