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[Version 3.0]

somehow the gaming industry lives in a special bubble where normal rules of business don't apply.

I'm not advocating going into debt as good business, but the gaming industry does indeed think that they're special and the rules don't apply. They think they should get money from the used market, or be allowed to block it completely. They think they should still control their product after a sale, even be allowed to lock away portions of it to sell you again, even though you already bought it. They think their own inflated budgets are the fault of their customers, and that customers should be aware of their problems, and put the company's best interests before their own.

The game industry truly does think backwards a great deal of the time.

 

[Cutebrute]

Just brainstorming:

Maybe Nintendo could release a new console relatively soon (summer 2015). Make it comparable in power to the competition, and backwards compatible with the Wii U and Wii. Backwards compatibility with the Wii U requires purchase of the Gamepad separately (so the Gamepad doesn't drive up the price of the new console). Current Wii U owners could trade up by simply keeping their Gamepads and turning in the main body of the Wii U for $150 or so toward the new console in an official trade-in program. Nintendo could re-sell all those Wii U's refurbished and paired with new Gamepads (for a dramatically reduced price, of course). Make the new console extremely developer-friendly, then go to the 3rd parties hat in hand and beg them for forgiveness.

Still a terrible idea, but that's the best I've got.

I would like to see furthered BC support, but the Wii and the U both use PowerPC CPU architectures. This is about to become a dead CPU platform for gaming, as ARM and x86 CPUs appear to be the future for all gaming devices in the foreseeable future. Nintendo needs to move away from PowerPC, and BC with it, in order to use a common and relevant CPU platform that people know how to work on and port games towards. It would be too difficult for the big N to emulate Wii U on a different architecture, and it will likely be too expensive for Nintendo to build a legacy chip into their next system.

They need to ditch BC and the Wii/DS name for a more future-proof design and sell us HD remasters of their older games. I agree with you about the Gamepad though.

 

[Bucket-o-roadkill]

It also was only Sega as their competition. Nintendo was top dawg back then, so if you went against them it's Sega or bust fool....then Sony came and there was a legit other option. Now there is 3.

Yeah and Sega whooped their ass from pillar to post at times. Sonics rise was a kick in the nuts for Nintendo, it was only Sega's total ineptitude and shooting themselves in the foot from about 93 until the DC which screwed them over.

I can't fathom just how we're here discussing how Nintendo should drop the Wii brand next gen.I mean that thing was a phenomenon, such a powerful and successful brand just a couple of years ago. Make no mistake, this is a monumental fuck up, as in under powered-no gimmick to save us- sega saturn style fuck up.

 

[MAtgS]

You mean just how, a generation ago, the Wii outsold the 360 despite being dead for the last two years?

Fad. That's all that it was.

 

[ZealousMonkey]

I would like to see furthered BC support, but the Wii and the U both use PowerPC CPU architectures. This is about to become a dead CPU platform for gaming, as ARM and x86 CPUs appear to be the future for all gaming devices in the foreseeable future. Nintendo needs to move away from PowerPC, and BC with it, in order to use a common and relevant CPU platform that people know how to work on and port games towards. It would be too difficult for the big N to emulate Wii U on a different architecture, and it will likely be too expensive for Nintendo to build a legacy chip into their next system.

They need to ditch BC and the Wii/DS name for a more future-proof design and sell us HD remasters of their older games. I agree with you about the Gamepad though.

And those HD remasters will sell for sure. There will be a whole legion of gamers who never bought into the WiiU. Including me. I'd buy Mario 3D World in a heartbeat if it were maxed graphically. Not full price but 29.99 sure.

 

[Currygan]

not sure why everyone is practically begging Iwata to admit defeat. What do we gain from it?

 

[Herne]

Fad. That's all that it was.

A fad that was popular enough to inspire Nintendo's competitors to quickly follow suit, and have Microsoft increase their focus on their version of it for their next console. It's not going away, even if it's not in the spotlight any more.

 

[IsntChrisL]

This is the dumbest thing Nintendo could do. It wouldn't fucking help them at all. They need to work on improving third party relations and expanding on their variety of exclusives.

 

[Mik317]

Yeah and Sega whooped their ass from pillar to post at times. Sonics rise was a kick in the nuts for Nintendo, it was only Sega's total ineptitude and shooting themselves in the foot from about 93 until the DC which screwed them over.

I can't fathom just how we're here discussing how Nintendo should drop the Wii brand next gen.I mean that thing was a phenomenon, such a powerful and successful brand just a couple of years ago. Make no mistake, this is a monumental fuck up, as in under powered-no gimmick to save us- sega saturn style fuck up.

That's pretty hyperbolic. Nintendo isn't leaking like Sega was at the time of the Saturn.

the Wii U is a big mess. Nintendo bet on the wrong gimmick for sure...in fact I don't think the pad is far enough of a gimmick. But its nowhere near end of the world. I think it's salvagable.

 

[Enchanted]

The system just needs more titles, exclusives preferably.

 

[Alebrije]

NOP....

 

[TC McQueen]

not sure why everyone is practically begging Iwata to admit defeat. What do we gain from it?

Nintendo recognizing its mistakes and learning from them so they can properly assess the market and come up with a sensible international business strategy.

 

[Beelzeboss]

Why did third parties develop multiplats on the PS2 and Xbox but not the Gamecube?

My guess would be those mini disks Nintendo insisted on using instead of DVDs. Games probably got too big and third parties moved on.

 

[Bucket-o-roadkill]

That's pretty hyperbolic. Nintendo isn't leaking like Sega was at the time of the Saturn.

the Wii U is a big mess. Nintendo bet on the wrong gimmick for sure...in fact I don't think the pad is far enough of a gimmick. But its nowhere near end of the world. I think it's salvagable.

How though? they lost a years head start of sales in like 50 hours. The general public dont give a shit about it, they aren't buying their big guns. I don't see what they have left up their sleeve for the Wii U. Marketing is nonexistent. Store presence is dwindling more and more with each passing month. its like the Saturn all over again sitting there while everyone bought the ps1 and n64.

 

[MisterHero]

Why did third parties develop multiplats on the PS2 and Xbox but not the Gamecube?

The miniDVD medium was blamed. It didn't stop Nintendo from publishing their own superior games, or some 3rd-party games having 2 discs. Some suffered from compressed sound, but I didn't mind. In certain cases the game loaded faster than other versions.

I've heard the suggestion that even GTAIII (and maybe VC) could've fit on a GC disc, but we'll never know now.

 

[Morfeo]

This would ruin whatever credibility Nintendo has left. They need to stay with the Wii U for now or risk allienating their remaining fans. Also, the beasty Nintendo-console wont solve any problems for them as it would attract just as little thirdparty support as they do now.

What they need to do is produce more games, simple as that. They cant rely on others to fill in their library, so they will have to do it themselves. Hire studios and developers, and pay them to make Nintendo-quality software in all genres. The Platinum-deal was a step in the right direction, but they need much more.

 

[FutureZombie]

It's not about graphics, it's about not making a console with annoying controls. The game pad did not need to be revolutionized. It was fine the way it was. Hopefully Nintendo will understand this one day.

 

[jax]

I assume you mean Mario Kart and Smash?

Sure, but it doesn't need to end there. Nintendo knows what they're up against, there's no telling what they are working on/what they have in store. There could very well be 1080p Star Fox, Metroid, F-Zero and Pokémon games on the way. The point is, they have the exclusive properties to properly boost the system, and since the Wii U is so cheap to make, they could drop the price/include these games with a bundle. Think about the 3DS audience. All of these people will want to use the 3DS/Wii U combined functionality when SSB drops.

The other thing that I don't think people realize is that the majority of console gamers buy two consoles. Since the PS4 and One have virtually the exact same library, people will go with the Wii U, especially when the heavy hitters start coming out. No one has better exclusives than Nintendo, and that won't change. (It won't.)

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

Fad. That's all that it was.

It's hard to dismiss 100 million consoles with one word, but you can sure try.

 

[Version 3.0]

Why did third parties develop multiplats on the PS2 and Xbox but not the Gamecube?

They didn't, not at first. The first 2-3 years, the Gamecube got nearly every cross-platform game, and wasn't left out any more than the Xbox was. It was only in the latter half of the generation that games started releasing on just the PS2 and Xbox.

Why? Because the generation started out with some semblance of parity. The Gamecube outsold the Xbox at first, just a little. It didn't have too bad of a stigma about its demographics. After all, Capcom planned to release its Resident Evil games as Gamecube exclusives. After the exodus over cartridge prices with the N64, most of the industry was expecting somewhat of a comeback for Nintendo, and had all their games lined up to be part of it - or at least to hedge their bets.

But as the generation moved along, there were several issues. Nintendo "kiddified" their biggest teen-friendly franchise, Zelda, with Wind Waker. Their marketing for Mario Sunshine was also a bit overly Teletubby-ish. The other consoles could play DVDs, and the Gamecube couldn't. The other consoles advertised online capabilities (limited though they were in actuality), but Nintendo actively bashed online and pushed their silly Game Boy Advance Link as an alternative. Nintendo refused to publish, much less hype, the specs of the Gamecube - even though it was a quite impressively powerful and efficient machine, and public perception was that the PS2 was more powerful, and the Xbox even more so.

As the demographics shifted back towards that persistent "kiddie" stereotype, sales of titles aimed at the larger 20+ demographic sold less on the Gamecube and more on the Xbox, and 3rd parties slowly phased out the Gamecube from their lineup - and the cycle fed on itself, as the Gamecube's sales slowed, the stream of games thinned, etc.

People like to cite that Nintendo's 3rd party woes go all the way back to the N64, but they don't, at least not in an unbroken line. They had a chance with the Gamecube to right the ship and muzzle the negative stereotypes, but instead, they ended up reinforcing them, and creating more.

 

[Tertullian]

I would like to see furthered BC support, but the Wii and the U both use PowerPC CPU architectures. This is about to become a dead CPU platform for gaming, as ARM and x86 CPUs appear to be the future for all gaming devices in the foreseeable future. Nintendo needs to move away from PowerPC, and BC with it, in order to use a common and relevant CPU platform that people know how to work on and port games towards. It would be too difficult for the big N to emulate Wii U on a different architecture, and it will likely be too expensive for Nintendo to build a legacy chip into their next system.

They need to ditch BC and the Wii/DS name for a more future-proof design and sell us HD remasters of their older games. I agree with you about the Gamepad though.

Dang, being mostly ignorant of tech stuff, I didn't know they were using a CPU that was neither ARM nor x86. And backwards compatibility was one of my favourite Nintendo advantages too ):

 

[Seance]

It's hard to dismiss 100 million consoles with one word, but you can sure try.

Are you attempting to say that the Wii wasn't a fad?

 

[Version 3.0]

Fad. That's all that it was.

More like lightning in a bottle. It wasn't a fad, because it's still going. Casual games are still booming. It's just that Nintendo isn't a part of it any more.

That's the frustrating thing about the Wii - Nintendo didn't even appear to try and sustain it. They starved it to death at least 2 years too early, and probably more like 5+ years. Console market leaders aren't supposed to die off before their competition.

But they supported it so poorly, and did nothing to promote quality support from anyone else, that its market went elsewhere - to the Kinect, to mobile, to Facebook, and of course, the "core" segment went to the other consoles.

Writers like to pretend all that was inevitable, especially the rise of mobile, but it's not true. If the DS and now the 3DS, as well as the other consoles, can co-exist with mobile, so could have the Wii, if it had been supported properly.

 

[AmyS]

Their next console should be a hybrid of portable and home console.

No.

Nintendo specifically indicated that their next handheld and next console will NOT be a single hybrid machine. They will share the same architecture but have different performance.

The successors to 3DS and Wii U will be separate handheld and console hardware.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

The other thing that I don't think people realize is that the majority of console gamers buy two consoles.

Citation needed.

 

[sibarraz]

I don't get why people who always said that SEGA was stupid on killing the saturn so quick destroying the consumer's conficdence want to see nintendo doing the same with wiiu

 

[Freezie KO]

Freezie,

when I was talking about cost I meant more so for Nintendo. For that tech to work, it would be costly to make. You can't have XBone level at worst level graphics on something that also has to be a handheld too.

The other stuff, I can be swayed on as I am no expert.

Like I said, it's the least stupid idea out of the normal go tos but I just don't think it's feasible right now nor it is the best choice. Making a good console and a good handheld is a better option....Now whether or not Nintendo is capable is something else lol.

I can be swayed on the hybrid thing as the point about a more games is a good one as it is the best way to "save" Nintendo. It is a lot easier to buy a Nintendo box (if 3rd parties still stay away) when there is a shitton of games per year...however putting everything in to one basket is stupid risky and if it fails to take off for whatever reason, the company could find itself bleeding money with nothing to fall back on.

Well, I'll say this. Is it risky? Yes. (but so was Wii, and apparently Wii U)

Is the tech where it needs to be? I don't know.

But I believe your point about Nintendo being capable is the key. The hybrid is a strategy that plays to things Nintendo is capable of, and, unlike other suggestions, it's consistent with their values.

Maintaining their own ecosystem and not competing head-on with PS4/bone is what they want. And the hybrid strategy considers that Nintendo's internal teams just aren't capable of supporting two distinct platforms as development costs go up.

Is it a guaranteed slam dunk success? No. But I think the concept deserves more merit than being called "the least stupid" idea.

 

[Neoxon]

I grew up loving Nintendo... but they could make SO MUCH MONEY if they would swallow their pride and become a third party. Their hardware just isn't anything special - and hasn't been for years.

Truly depressing for someone raised on Nintendo.

I'm going to go with nooooooo.

 

[GetemMa]

GamesRadar: It's time for Nintendo to toss out the credibility they have with their fans, leaving them with no one on their side.

 

[Freezie KO]

GamesRadar: It's time for Nintendo to toss out the credibility they have with their fans, leaving them with no one on their side.

I thought that was called E3 2008.

 

[orphenshadow]

IMO

Nintendo needs to slash the price of the Wii U at e3 to at the VERY LEASE 199.99 if not 149.99. They will have to take a loss to improve their install base and try to get more software support.

If they abandon the Wii U they will lose customer confidence and it will be just like the Sega situation all over again. Well, maybe. I guess all five of the people who bought a Wii U would be pretty upset if they released a new console right now. The rest of us probably wouldnt care too much.

Give it a couple years then announce the Gamecube II...

Make it an 8 core X86 AMD APU with whatever the latest greatest chipset is in a couple years. Give it more ram than the ps4/xbox but otherwise make it pretty much the same arcitecture.

This would ensure that not only would multi-plats be easy to port to the new console. It would have a graphical advantage to the PS4 and XBone.

If nintendo would do that... I would buy it.

I want a powerful Nintendo console that does not have any gimmicks. I want a solid comfortable and usable controller, I want a working multiplayer network, and I want some awesome first party games and some M rated nintendo games.

There are so many old NES era games that would make pretty awesome franchises for the older gamer.

I'm not going to spend 300 bucks on a console thats less powerful than the ps4 and only has first party support.

 

[mechphree]

They need a new console. People have a problem with the product and the next Mario or Zelda won't save it.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Maybe it would be better for the company to cut its losses and start again with a new console. If developed now, a new Nintendo machine would likely be ready in time for Christmas 2015. By then, it would be too soon for Sony and Microsoft to counter it with another launch, giving Nintendo the chance to offer a more powerful console at around the price of PS4 and XO right now.

 

[Majine]

A console with Nintendo's first party games and the third party support that Sony and MS has would be my #1 console of choice.

Just waiting for now...

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

IMO

Nintendo needs to slash the price of the Wii U at e3 to at the VERY LEASE 199.99 if not 149.99. They will have to take a loss to improve their install base and try to get more software support.

If they abandon the Wii U they will lose customer confidence and it will be just like the Sega situation all over again. Well, maybe. I guess all five of the people who bought a Wii U would be pretty upset if they released a new console right now. The rest of us probably wouldnt care too much.

Give it a couple years then announce the Gamecube II...

Nah. Gamecube²

 

[jblank83]

The Gamecube was profitable for Nintendo. Wii U could only do GC numbers (it won't; it'll do better) and Nintendo wouldn't need to do anything but sell their software for the next 4 years.

However, Nintendo needs to rethink their home console strategy for the next-gen.

 

[wsippel]

Just brainstorming:

Maybe Nintendo could release a new console relatively soon (summer 2015). Make it comparable in power to the competition, and backwards compatible with the Wii U and Wii. Backwards compatibility with the Wii U requires purchase of the Gamepad separately (so the Gamepad doesn't drive up the price of the new console). Current Wii U owners could trade up by simply keeping their Gamepads and turning in the main body of the Wii U for $150 or so toward the new console in an official trade-in program. Nintendo could re-sell all those Wii U's refurbished and paired with new Gamepads (for a dramatically reduced price, of course). Make the new console extremely developer-friendly, then go to the 3rd parties hat in hand and beg them for forgiveness.

Still a terrible idea, but that's the best I've got.

Developing the Wii U chipset took three years. It's pretty much impossible to develop a significantly more powerfully ABI compatible chipset in such a short time frame.

Not to mention it's a really stupid idea, would piss off their most hardcore fans, and third parties won't come back no matter what Nintendo does. Sony and MS need to leave the console market or tank really god damn hard for that to happen.

 

[mechphree]

Developing the Wii U chipset took three years. It's impossible to develop a significantly more powerfully ABI compatible chipset within a year or two.

Not to mention it's a really stupid idea, would piss off their most hardcore fans, and third parties won't come back no matter what Nintendo does. Sony and MS need to leave the console market or tank really god damn hard for that to happen.

What hardcore fans? The imaginary ones buying the Wii U? And with new hardware third parties would actually have good tech to port their games over to.

 

[crinale]

No matter what people think, I guess Nintendo is already developing next console.
It's same as Sony started PS4 development immediately (at 2007) after they figured out how PS3 will do by looking at 2-3 months of reception PS3 got (plus some pre-launch fiasco).

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

According to Reggie. As soon as you buy a game they are profitable on the hardware. Nintendo's business model doesn't need them to sell as much volume as Microsoft and Sony to make a profit. There's even discussion on GAF and the on the internet that the Microsoft Xbox division has not been profitable despite the high volume of sales they had last gen. If any model is the most sustainable in this industry it's Nintendo's.

I think that was before the price cut.

 

[Majine]

No matter what people think, I guess Nintendo is already developing next console.
It's same as Sony started PS4 development immediately after they figured out how PS3 will do by looking at 2-3 months of reception PS3 got (plus some pre-launch fiasco).

I thought PS4 development started 2008 ( PS3 launched in 2006).

 

[wsippel]

What hardcore fans? The imaginary ones not buying the Wii U? And with new hardware third parties would actually have good tech to port their games over to.

The three million who bought the thing despite the lack of games and marketing. Because, lets be real for a moment: Three million hardcore fans who buy a system without hype just for "potential" is actually quite good. I doubt Sony and Microsoft have that many. And 3rd parties don't give a rat's ass how powerful the thing would be, they'd do fuck all no matter what.

 

[gaugebozo]

I get that but it doesn't have to be that way. Two sources of income is better than just one. You don't put all your eggs into one basket if you don't have to.

The problem is that this isn't how business works. Coca-Cola doesn't branch out into lemonade stands because it can also earn money that way. Companies do what they are best at. If you are not the best at a particular thing, you eventually lose. You don't put your eggs into a basket that you know is going to fail.

 

[crinale]

I thought PS4 development started 2008 ( PS3 launched in 2006).

Oh my bad Then Sony looked PS3's performance like 14 months, to decide the console development totally different from PS3.

Edit. I googled and Yoshida said actually it started at 2006. The year 2008 is when development became parallel because Vita development kicked in as well.
Perhaps they've seen the weakness of PS3 before start?

 

[Log4Girlz]

The three million who bought the thing despite the lack of games and marketing. Because, lets be real for a moment: Three million hardcore fans who buy a system without hype just for "potential" is actually quite good. I doubt Sony and Microsoft have that many. And 3rd parties don't give a rat's ass how powerful the thing would be, they'd do fuck all no matter what.

Now they just need to convince 18 million of their friends to buy one to match the gamecube lifetime sales

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

How many years has it been since third parties had have parity with Nintendo on a Nintendo platform? Twenty?

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Not to mention it's a really stupid idea, would piss off their most hardcore fans, and third parties won't come back no matter what Nintendo does.

Whatever is left of their hardcore fans anyway. It's probably a matter of how long the company will endure the bleeding at this point.

The three million who bought the thing despite the lack of games and marketing. Because, lets be real for a moment: Three million hardcore fans who buy a system without hype just for "potential" is actually quite good.

There is obviously a Nintendo fanbase. If i cared enough about the point I'd probably paste some type of nifty looking graph showing software tie ratio and overall console sales being much less than the GameCube. I think every generation the legacy fanbase has depleted greatly, many older fans eventually crossing over to the other side while they exercise their past love of Nintendo by criticizing and boistering their disappointment over and over on message boards. I'm sure Nintendo also picks up new gamers and stragglers every generation, but the loss-gain ratio certainly has not been working out in their favor.

 

[Mik317]

How though? they lost a years head start of sales in like 50 hours. The general public dont give a shit about it, they aren't buying their big guns. I don't see what they have left up their sleeve for the Wii U. Marketing is nonexistent. Store presence is dwindling more and more with each passing month. its like the Saturn all over again sitting there while everyone bought the ps1 and n64.

Never said it would be easy. In my opinion (I am no expert), I think they are better off sticking with it and tough it out and just put out more varied games, building up a good and varied lineup that will make the system a good purchase instead of the cliche "I'm not buying the system to play 3 games" stuff. Games is what turned the 3DS around. It's not jus twait for Mario Kart or wait for Smash yo...because one or two games won't be enough. Use this time to create relationships with the devs you can't exactly afford to jump into "true next gen" yet (i.e Japanese Devs), Get in bed with indies and eventually you should have a system that while it will be in last place, it will also be profitable. It's not easy but it's hella better than killing off the system now, pissing off your diehards and hoping they get over it quick enough for you sell them on a system you shat out quickly. Give it another full year. Hit it with you best shots this year (if you can) and see what happens, if there is an uptick even if it is small, then keep at it for two more years after that THEN create the next system, with your new standbys, a legit system seller from jump (NOT NSMB), and with none of the mistakes of this gen (shit name, confusing premise, no games, poor OS, no accounts).

Killing the system now, only means you are bleeding more money, fans have nothing to look forward to all year (trolololol it liek dat nao lolololol), all for the hopes that being closer to the others will all of a sudden change things for you (it might...it may not).

That's cutting your nose to spite your face.

Well, I'll say this. Is it risky? Yes. (but so was Wii, and apparently Wii U)

Is the tech where it needs to be? I don't know.

But I believe your point about Nintendo being capable is the key. The hybrid is a strategy that plays to things Nintendo is capable of, and, unlike other suggestions, it's consistent with their values.

Maintaining their own ecosystem and not competing head-on with PS4/bone is what they want. And the hybrid strategy considers that Nintendo's internal teams just aren't capable of supporting two distinct platforms as development costs go up.

Is it a guaranteed slam dunk success? No. But I think the concept deserves more merit than being called "the least stupid" idea.

Poor choice of words. It the option I have the least issues with. The others are stupid, this one I am just paranoid about. It also helps that you explained it very well.

 

[AzaK]

A more powerful console isn't going to fix their problems.

At least they'd be in a better position than now. Nothing is as bad as the Wii U.

 

[Yondy604]

So many people STILL dono what the WII U is, if they made a new console and advertised it as such, they would get a ton of people buying it, no doubt.

People think the WII-U is still a last gen console, eat the losses, make a new console, release it in 3 years.

Don't give it a Dumb ass name, call it something like Nintendo Vision or something and add some unique gameplay like they usually do.